Trouble in the West: Pirates vs Cowboys [Finished]

[cooliorules]

Give me like a few days to read that. I'll get back to you. xD

 

[JKangaroo]

Give me like a few days to read that. I'll get back to you. xD

Sorry ;~;
I spent like, 5 hours (exaggerating) to like, cut stuff out to make it shorter and stuff but nooooo, it just has to be long says the post gods! Blargherflarglemargle.
That post gives me a headache to even read anyways.

 

[Jeercrul]

-snip-

I do admit, that post was overexaggerating a little, but I had to find some way to get my point across. Sorry if it seemed like I'm trying to say that you were trying to pick on me. Basically what I wanted to get across/meant from that long-winded post was to explain my suspicion on you. I don't feel like it is something solid, it feels more of a hunch, hence I tried explaining why it feels like a hunch that you are suspicions. Those ARE assumptions made, I just felt like mafia is being way too sneaky and I can't or rather don't have time to personally analyse every single post on every page to find someone closer to being a mafia. Hence I decided to reread and go with whom I feel can be potentially mafia. Risky method, yes, that's why I'm not voting you for the haphazard reasons mentioned in my long post. To be frank while I was writing that my ideas were all cluttered up I had no idea what point I was trying to get across. Now that I have a clearer mind, these were my main ideas behind my accusations.

 

[cooliorules]

Still getting there. dammit.

 

[GmK]

This is what you get when you have a busy weekend and only skim the thread, and then get back to huge posts

​

I don't even know where to begin replying, and since I have a full time job I cannot put as much effort into my posts as e.g. Jeer, JKang and Samlen have done lately, mad probs to you people!

What helps me in these situations is to draw a mental image of what I, on a very low level of 'sort of confirmed' know & feel, and that is by looking at the player list (taken straight from the first page, so no specific order). Next to each my current remark on what I think / feel:

​

[xtable=skin1|border:2|cellspacing:2|bcenter|669x275]
{tbody}
{tr}
{td}Jeercrul{/td}
{td}Impressive deductions, that have a slight feeling of being forced to sound townlike, but no proof whatsoever.{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}
GmK{/td}
{td}(others have to judge that){/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}endersteve5{/td}
{td}Some strong arguments, openly scumhunting, seems town.{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}storm886{/td}
{td}Claims Alien, claim is iffy and has some loopholes, intentions not clear.{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}ansoro2112{/td}
{td}Probably in soccer heaven due to Costa Rica advancing to the quarter finals Some good observations so far, seems to scumhunt when he has time.{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}std1997{/td}
{td}Complete blank, last post had no real content, feels scummy but due to lack of content no proof whatsoever.{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Timdood3{/td}
{td}Not quite clear, some things seem off, lack of experience? Seems fast&jumpy in judgement, but feels pro-town{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}JKangaroo{/td}
{td}Too many observations to keep track with, seems to be sincerely scumhunting.{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Samlen{/td}
{td}Why the sudden interest in analysing everyone and everything, pointing very strongly away from self?{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}HypeBurst{/td}
{td}Unsure, gives good town vibes, but only very pointed{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}cooliorules{/td}
{td}Seems town, makes some hasty assumptions, typical coolio? Could use to own advantage to play upon "being town as always"?{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}digitalmez{/td}
{td}Claims Town PR with some kind of "killing ability" (?), investigated guilty by Ooglie{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}77_is_the_best{/td}
{td}Claims Town PR (extended day into night), could also be scum sided (The ability is not per se pro-town?){/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]
So, from this my potential suspicions (and to answer these questions of late) are:

- digitalmez (for obv. reasons)
- std1997 (the very little content of posts (of course excused for the time of camp) makes me quite iffy)
- Samlen (Just for the sudden surge of so actively trying to scumhunt, a tactic often employed by scum when they feel the day is going into a wrong direction. But this is purely based on psychological tells and no real proof)
- storm886 (for obv. reasons, but I mirror the notion to not risk a lynch for the fear of reducing town/thirdparty/anti-scum numbers even further)

Less strong suspicions:

- cooliorules (we always say "well that's just how coolio is", and I myself get annoyed at myself for thinking the same way and not considering her being anti-town behind that easy-going facade)
- 77_is_the_best (Without ever analysing if the alignment could have also been anti-town we all immediatly cleared him from potentially being scum.)

(Remember, suspicions are based on my mafia gut feeling of knowing common scum tells, that's why they're supicions and not 'facts' that would lead to me being convinced of a person being scum)

And this doesn't yet take the whole inn situation and other discussions we had into consideration...

 

[cooliorules]

Just going to quickly say that I've been off sick from school today, so anything from today would most definitely have been weird. Also yesterday I worked 3 hours, then played 2 soccer games (totalled up to 3 hours of soccer) so same most likely goes for yesterday. This week I have about 5 tests (bleh), so I'll be concentrating on them for the next few days, then I'm on break. But hey, why don't I just like go on camp (yeah oops) Saturday-Wednesday.

I LOVE YOU GUYYSSSS.


(just because I've been feeling reallly shit lately so yeah xD my logic is already messed up, so when I'm sick it's just weird.)

 

[GmK]

A quick question for @digitalmez

Assuming someone / people would know your role but not your alignment, would you have any way to actually proof the role having a pro-town alignment?

(I am not asking you to claim, just wondering the exact thing I ask, you don't even have to go into details, a yes/no is enough. I currently don't see an issue with the question, but if someone/you see it as giving away too much information, don't answer.)

 

[Timdood3]

I will read JK's post...It'll just take me two weeks.

But no seriously I'm going to be away from up to two weeks ;-;
(probably less)
I won't be totally inactive, but I won't exactly be active either, definitely not as active as I was.
Or maybe it won't be a problem.....But I'm leaving now, bai <3

 

[digi]

A quick question for @digitalmez

Assuming someone / people would know your role but not your alignment, would you have any way to actually proof the role having a pro-town alignment?

(I am not asking you to claim, just wondering the exact thing I ask, you don't even have to go into details, a yes/no is enough. I currently don't see an issue with the question, but if someone/you see it as giving away too much information, don't answer.)

No, I'm not sure there is.

JK it's 11pm-- y u do dis?

 

[digi]

@JKangaroo - my suspicions on you came more from a defensive place. I feel that whenever you make a post condemning someone, people usually follow suit and it had me worried.
So I picked on your characteristics, which is like grasping for straws. And you're right, I do rely heavily on your input. I like to use your insight and see how it benefits me since you're an influential presence. You're usually close in your Mafia detection-- but in this case about me, you're wrong.

 

[GmK]

And to keep track, just a small reminder:

storm886 (1) - 77_is_the_best
digitalmez (2) - JKangaroo, Samlen

Not voted(10) - THE REST(GmK, Endersteve5, Hypeburst, Jeercrul, digitalmez, std1997, cooliorules, timdood3, storm886, ansoro2112)

It takes 7 to lynch.

 

[std1997]

I'm stuck at the impasse of either Storm or Digi.

I feel Digi is the more scummy one out of the two people mainly being focused right now.

Why you may ask?

and yes, I do have the ability to potentially hurt or kill someone.

Ok so I noticed you said you have the ability to kill someone but I wonder how this makes you town. Mafia can kill people and not do so and claim town. I don't understand how this all makes you town and then to be called "Abhorrent Adam" is just red lights for me. In this instance, I'd rather trust an Alien for another day than a killer.

Also a lot of the evidence/logic has been already covered quite well by Samlen/JKangaroo and so with the evidence that they've brought to light and my own personal opinion. I'll be voting Digi.

Vote Digitalmez

 

[Enderfive]

Ok so I noticed you said you have the ability to kill someone but I wonder how this makes you town. Mafia can kill people and not do so and claim town. I don't understand how this all makes you town and then to be called "Abhorrent Adam" is just red lights for me. In this instance, I'd rather trust an Alien for another day than a killer.

Also a lot of the evidence/logic has been already covered quite well by Samlen/JKangaroo and so with the evidence that they've brought to light and my own personal opinion. I'll be voting Digi.

Yeah, I'd just like to say that she didn't point that out as the main reason she's town. In fact, she didn't say she's town for any specific reason, she just stated that she was town. I don't really see how her being potentially able to kill or hurt someone makes her instantly mafia. As for the name argument, I don't know why she has such a name or if it means anything, but first of all, why would she say she has such a role name when she could invent any name that fits the idea of a harmless town role, and secondly, why couldn't a town member be called "Abhorrent"? As I proposed, maybe whatever her role's backstory is is in conflict with the Cowboys' moral code, as in maybe she's cowardly or something in the universe of the game.

To be honest, all you're basing this off of is Ooglie's investigation and her name. That's not exactly much, in my opinion, at least. Swate was acting much, much more suspiciously and fits the idea that mafia has at least one of their own in each inn, which would leave out the investigation, and her role name? Seriously? I'll admit, the names so far have given some insight to the role, but again, why would she admit to having such a role name when she's really mafia and why couldn't a town member be called that?

 

[std1997]

Yeah, I'd just like to say that she didn't point that out as the main reason she's town. In fact, she didn't say she's town for any specific reason, she just stated that she was town. I don't really see how her being potentially able to kill or hurt someone makes her instantly mafia. As for the name argument, I don't know why she has such a name or if it means anything, but first of all, why would she say she has such a role name when she could invent any name that fits the idea of a harmless town role, and secondly, why couldn't a town member be called "Abhorrent"? As I proposed, maybe whatever her role's backstory is is in conflict with the Cowboys' moral code, as in maybe she's cowardly or something in the universe of the game.

To be honest, all you're basing this off of is Ooglie's investigation and her name. That's not exactly much, in my opinion, at least. Swate was acting much, much more suspiciously and fits the idea that mafia has at least one of their own in each inn, which would leave out the investigation, and her role name? Seriously? I'll admit, the names so far have given some insight to the role, but again, why would she admit to having such a role name when she's really mafia and why couldn't a town member be called that?

My theory is based off of Ooglie's claim, her name, and what JK/Samlen had posted a couple of pages ago. I also don't trust a killing role who claims to be town but then gives no proof/claim of why. Her name is obviously a weak reason, which is why it's not the only reason I'm voting for her off. I do feel her name even though an extremely weak reason should still be considered and looked at.

Now considering the two main people, that seem to be voting for is either Storm, a person who has claimed Alien an obvious third-party role which I'm iffy as to whether he's town-sided or not. Digi, who practically claimed a killer role and then merely says "I'm town-sided" without any evidence whatsoever and then on top of that, Ooglie's claim from what JK showed makes it seem like she'd be guilty. Now I know a lot of people are saying we're putting too much trust in what JK says but I feel in this instance, that he can be trusted with what he said so far. I know these reasons are weak at best but I trust an Alien more than I do a killer.

Hopefully this answers your question.

 

[Jeercrul]

I know this is a very flawed argument, but I just need to get this off my chest. Since mafia work as a group to get one kill per night, and Digi claims to be a killing role, it just seems really silly that only one person would be carrying out the whole killing herself from her name and her role description of a killing role. The norm (and by norm I mean perhaps 99% of the time) is that the mafia chooses one person per night to perform the killing action and the person would also carry out their specific action. Digi has been brutally honest about being a killing role, and I feel like her honesty in revealing her ability to kill is believable, which also means that it would be silly to place a killer who kills every night in a group of mafiasos, and considering we only had one kill per night. It also appears more likely that she has been considering people to kill very carefully, instead of going about and killing anyone outside of mafia.

 

[Enderfive]

I know this is a very flawed argument, but I just need to get this off my chest. Since mafia work as a group to get one kill per night, and Digi claims to be a killing role, it just seems really silly that only one person would be carrying out the whole killing herself from her name and her role description of a killing role. The norm (and by norm I mean perhaps 99% of the time) is that the mafia chooses one person per night to perform the killing action and the person would also carry out their specific action. Digi has been brutally honest about being a killing role, and I feel like her honesty in revealing her ability to kill is believable, which also means that it would be silly to place a killer who kills every night in a group of mafiasos, and considering we only had one kill per night. It also appears more likely that she has been considering people to kill very carefully, instead of going about and killing anyone outside of mafia.

Yes, and let me once again point out, that she claimed that she has the potential ability to kill, not just a straightforward ability. That could mean that it is not activated yet or something, which could also lead to so few kills.

 

[Jeercrul]

Forget about that 99% part. If she were indeed a killing role whom is part of mafia and carrying out the kills, it may as well mean that mafia would lose immediately should their killer be dead. It would mean that a voted mafiaso would be carrying out the kills in all mafia games.

A neater tl;dr about my previous post:
- Digi claims to be a killing role. It seems that we all believe the part about her being a killing role.
- I also find her brutal honesty in admitting she is a killing role rather believable.

>> If she is indeed a killing role, placing her in mafia would not make sense due to the two possibilities:
1) If she carries out the kills for mafia, then mafia would be a goner should she die. Hence 100% of the time a voted mafiaso out of the mafia carries out the kill.
2) If she's a killer and has the ability to carry out another kill for the mafia every night, there would be two kills per night. There's only one so far.

It all boils down to whether her claim about having a killing ability is believable. Honestly I think that already speaks for itself. Why put yourself in trouble by claiming to be able to kill should you be mafia?

 

[Jeercrul]

Yes, and let me once again point out, that she claimed that she has the potential ability to kill, not just a straightforward ability. That could mean that it is not activated yet or something, which could also lead to so few kills.

I missed that part, but my argument still stands.

 

[digi]

ok, screw it--
Let me explain my role more thoroughly. Any ability used on me I can pass it off to someone else.
So when I say I have the potential to kill or hurt someone, it's unintentional.
Let me make myself clear-- I have no direct killing abilities.

 

[Enderfive]

ok, screw it--
Let me explain my role more thoroughly. Any ability used on me I can pass it off to someone else.
So when I say I have the potential to kill or hurt someone, it's unintentional.
Let me make myself clear-- I have no direct killing abilities.

Interesting. Do you mean you deflect the ability used on you over to someone else or is it like so that you're told that someone used an ability on you (not which ability, just some ability) and then you can choose to pass it on the next night?

 

[digi]

Interesting. Do you mean you deflect the ability used on you over to someone else or is it like so that you're told that someone used an ability on you (not which ability, just some ability) and then you can choose to pass it on the next night?

I'm able to deflect night kill abilities. I'm guessing that I can't simply pass off any other abilities.

 

[Enderfive]

I'm able to deflect night kill abilities. I'm guessing that I can't simply pass off any other abilities.

Ah. Ok.

 

[GmK]

Huge Ltin deja-vu! People from Masquerade will know what I mean...

(Had hoped you would not claim yet, but I understand within the circumstances)

 

[digi]

Let me be more clear.
Yes, I was given the name Abhorrent Adam. It's an unfortunate name to be given, I wish I could of been called Gleeful Glen or Happy Helen, but you play the hand you're dealt. I have the ability to potentially kill someone at night by deflecting it to someone else IF a killing ability is to be used on me. So far it hasn't.
In the three nights I've deflected my ability on to -
Jeercrul - There was something you posted in the beginning of the game that made me suspicious of you. I cannot recollect what it was.
Duffie - For all the silly suspicions I had towards him.
Timdood3 - I didn't trust his defence of Duffie.

 

[GmK]

Sent message too fast before finishing...

The basic argument will now be, how it can be possibly pro-town to deflect night-kills onto un-suspecting people, since it rather seems to be a scum PR that protects from potential Vig Kills...