Republic - Completed

[Infected_alien8_]

???????

to reiterate, aye/nay for if you're one of bulletproof/vengeful/reticent
nomass/yesmass for voting on whether we should massclaim

yessmass but with oog's version first*

 

[Hunter]

yessmass but with oog's version first*

what exactly was oog's version again, iirc he just reiterated hk's plan but more vaguely

 

[Hunter]

But what about YOUR opinion. Why are you ignoring all the reasons your argument is flawed so that others can weigh in. I want to know why you still think massclaiming is a bad idea. Faliara you too.

The only way this is going to be productive at all is if we interact like this:

Person A: Point
Person B: Counter-argument, Point
Person A: Counter-argument, Point
Person B: Accepts point, changes mind

Whether it's you or me who changes our minds depends on who's arguments have the most weight to them. Right now I feel like I'm not getting much back in terms of counter-arguments so I'm just at a stalemate where I provide a counter-argument and people just shut down on me and refuse to budge and we're not getting anywhere. People don't want to massclaim no but maybe they would if they carried on the discussion, or maybe they'd make me realize why this idea is flawed.

Hey, remember back when I was Templar trying to get jkang lynched in Russian Maf?
Wonder if you feel similarly lmao.

 

[Infected_alien8_]

what exactly was oog's version again, iirc he just reiterated hk's plan but more vaguely

that we get citizens to claim not PRs and see if we get a decent amount of citizen ccs, if we don't then we massclaim PRs (and mafia will probably mostly claim citizen since if they don't theyre forced to directly CC)

Hey, remember back when I was Templar trying to get jkang lynched in Russian Maf?
Wonder if you feel similarly lmao.

I don't remember that no but more importantly WHY ARE YOU NOT ANSWERING ME

I swear I've provided my argument a thousand times, asked for a reasonable counter a thousand times, been met with nothing, and then you tell me you feel like I'm a brick wall

I'm genuinely lost for words

 

[Hunter]

that we get citizens to claim not PRs and see if we get a decent amount of citizen ccs, if we don't then we massclaim PRs (and mafia will probably mostly claim citizen since if they don't theyre forced to directly CC)


I don't remember that no but more importantly WHY ARE YOU NOT ANSWERING ME

I swear I've provided my argument a thousand times, asked for a reasonable counter a thousand times, been met with nothing, and then you tell me you feel like I'm a brick wall

I'm genuinely lost for words

(in that situation back in rm, i had proven that jkang was antitown/threat but everyone refused to listen to me)

 

[Infected_alien8_]

(in that situation back in rm, i had proven that jkang was antitown/threat but everyone refused to listen to me)

the only thing I remember in russian mafia was when me and notty were fighting for oog's innocence and pointing out that 77thshad had cc's myuser and thus should be lynched, while you and jivvi argued for oog's death and you succeeded in mislynching him and let 77thshad (the mafia surgeon guy) live

but no this isnt like that because im not argueing for someone being mafia, im asking for a counter-argument to my point which you're still ignoring???

 

[Infected_alien8_]

the only thing I remember in russian mafia was when me and notty were fighting for oog's innocence and pointing out that 77thshad had cc's myuser and thus should be lynched, while you and jivvi argued for oog's death and you succeeded in mislynching him and let 77thshad (the mafia surgeon guy) live

but no this isnt like that because im not argueing for someone being mafia, im asking for a counter-argument to my point which you're still ignoring???

oh and also when i vibed caff so tried to potato bomb her but duffie also vibed caff and jailed her so we killed each other and caff lived

 

[Infected_alien8_]

(and caff was maf)

 

[Hunter]

honestly RM is worth a reread anytime, that shit was hilarious in retrospect.
rip vissarion
Ooglie101 watched over the garden wall because i remembered you did because of this game and it was pretty good honestly

 

[Infected_alien8_]

honestly RM is worth a reread anytime, that shit was hilarious in retrospect.
rip vissarion
Ooglie101 watched over the garden wall because i remembered you did because of this game and it was pretty good honestly

RM was my first game, good times

BUT HUNTER ANSWER MY QUESTION YOU'VE IGNORED ME AT LEAST 100 TIMES NOW

 

[Hunter]

and anyway the point was you feel like we're ignoring you, but more likely we just don't like how you sound like you think you're smarter than us and that we're apparently clearly incorrect in not following your genius

 

[Hunter]

RM was my first game, good times

BUT HUNTER ANSWER MY QUESTION YOU'VE IGNORED ME AT LEAST 100 TIMES NOW

what question????????

 

[Infected_alien8_]

and anyway the point was you feel like we're ignoring you, but more likely we just don't like how you sound like you think you're smarter than us and that we're apparently clearly incorrect in not following your genius

I don't think I'm smarter than you, I think Notty's idea is better than yours and I'm advocating for it, and you're against it so I'm trying to open a conversation about why that is, because one of us is probably more right than the other, I don't care who that is, but the aim of debate for me is to reach a consensus

I'm sorry if I'm coming off in that way, I'm not intending to at all, and I'm sorry if that's how you feel too Faliara, I respect both of your opinions but obviously if I think something's flawed in your reasoning then I'm going to point it out and expect that either you provide a counter-argument or agree that your argument is flawed

what question????????

Why do you think massclaiming isn't a good idea after the 1000 points I've made and counter-arguments I've presented to yours

 

[Hunter]

Why do you think massclaiming isn't a good idea after the 1000 points I've made and counter-arguments I've presented to yours

I don't like it

 

[Infected_alien8_]

I don't think I'm smarter than you, I think Notty's idea is better than yours and I'm advocating for it, and you're against it so I'm trying to open a conversation about why that is, because one of us is probably more right than the other, I don't care who that is, but the aim of debate for me is to reach a consensus

I'm sorry if I'm coming off in that way, I'm not intending to at all, and I'm sorry if that's how you feel too Faliara, I respect both of your opinions but obviously if I think something's flawed in your reasoning then I'm going to point it out and expect that either you provide a counter-argument or agree that your argument is flawed


Why do you think massclaiming isn't a good idea after the 1000 points I've made and counter-arguments I've presented to yours

and if you point out my argument is flawed then obviously I'll agree with you unless I find your counter-argument to be flawed in which case I'll point that out

 

[Infected_alien8_]

I don't like it

Ok but why not

 

[Hunter]

Ok but why not

Bad vibes + makes all town prs visible, so the useful ones will drop like flies, and we lose the buffer of maf potentially killing off villagers instead of useful PRs.
Ender tore it apart nearly immediately after it was posted, and I didn't see anyone respond to his rebuttals:

Nottykitten your plan is purely based on luck in basically every step and is in no way a smart play

a couple of specific points i'd like to argue


this won't happen


this makes every single one of the town pr's an instant maf target


this is very much dependent on what the maf will prioritise and unless you're maf, there is no way you can guarantee it

not to mention that in order to avoid having their kill blocked by the doc, they probably won't go for the obvious targets


i think it's relatively likely that you're maf again and simply knew you couldn't suggest the same strat again as you did the last time

I suggest clicking the arrow to the post itself as it doesn't make sense without seeing what ender is quoting

 

[Infected_alien8_]

Bad vibes + makes all town prs visible, so the useful ones will drop like flies, and we lose the buffer of maf potentially killing off villagers instead of useful PRs.

So do you think our PRs being hidden makes us stand a better chance at winning? Why is that?

Ender tore it apart nearly immediately after it was posted, and I didn't see anyone respond to his rebuttals:

I suggest clicking the arrow to the post itself as it doesn't make sense without seeing what ender is quoting

Both myself and Notty responded to Ender, to which Ender said he wasn't against massclaiming and just wanted to make sure we questioned it rather than blindly accepting it.

 

[Infected_alien8_]

and anyway the point was you feel like we're ignoring you, but more likely we just don't like how you sound like you think you're smarter than us and that we're apparently clearly incorrect in not following your genius

Also to reiterate because I'm worried this isn't clear, if I'm debating with you, or if I'm pointing out a flaw in an argument you made, or if I'm saying I think you're wrong about an idea, that's not me trying to put anyone down or asserting intellectual dominance over anyone or anything, or me believing I'm smarter than you, or wanting you to feel like I am. To my mind it's just me thinking that maybe you didn't consider a certain aspect of something, which I have, so I'm pointing it out so that either we realize it was a bad idea and make progress by avoiding it, or you clear up my confusion and I realize it's a good idea and we make progress by following it. Obviously there are going to be things I've missed or not considered as well and I assume people tell me when that happens (as has happened a lot), and if they're right then I will (and have) agreed and changed my mind (I mean look at last game when HK pointed out a flaw in my plan, I backed down and sided with the other idea instead - I'm not totally stubborn I promise!!). I'm sorry if I'm coming across as some frustrated 'you're wrong and you need to LISTEN TO ME' or something, it's just, the way I see progress in Mafia, is by everyone pointing out flaws in others' ideas/thinking (because we're all human and are going to miss things sometimes), and I don't think that by doing so that means the critic is any more intelligent than the other person. Naturally though I find it slightly frustrating when I feel as though I hold up my end of the discussion and provide reasonable points which seem to go ignored, and the reason for that may be my own doing like it is with you Hunter, so I'm sorry if that's the case, but that's where the frustration comes from on my end.

And I'm sorry Faliara if you're under the impression that I don't consider your points fully, personally I think I do because I spend time reading your posts and considering them, which means either I'm not understanding your points properly (because I don't just ignore them, I do consider them) which is why it might seem like I'm ignoring them in my responses to you, or you're not understanding my points properly, which might be why it seems like I'm ignoring them as well. If you want me to reiterate something or feel as though I've misunderstood you then just let me know, otherwise I'm going to stop pestering you because this is a game and it should be fun and I don't want to crush your motivation for playing

Soz this was kind of a serious post but I'd hate to think I'm making the game unfun for people or I'm making people feel like I'm patronizing them or something so I just wanted to make sure I kind of made myself a bit more clear and maybe I came off as bad in this who knows

 

[Ltin]

Just realized Jivvi is in the game.

Jivvi What's up

INB4 we lynch Jivvi at first chance and he is cop again

ANYWAY
im not one of the three (nay)
and i am opposed to massclaim (noMass)

The once facet of discussion i dont like (or at least think is less fruitful) has been brought up by me before
but of all our possibilities i think a vague massclaim (i.e. "i am/am not a PR") is a waste of time at best

If some enterprising mafia who decides they are better off dead decides to claim PR then suddenly we have a CC against the majority of the game. In order to narrow that down someone (but who? the last person to claim a PR is not any more likely to be lying than anyone else) has to claim AND someone else has to CC. So our only option is to start claiming, and from there it is possible we could easily get to a point to where by the time the mafia claims (or CCs, if they even decide to do so) most of the PRs are outed, and the mafia may be able to reasonably guess the rest.

:thinking:

#massclaim

 

[Infected_alien8_]

INB4 we lynch Jivvi at first chance and he is cop again

ANYWAY
im not one of the three (nay)
and i am opposed to massclaim (noMass)

The once facet of discussion i dont like (or at least think is less fruitful) has been brought up by me before
but of all our possibilities i think a vague massclaim (i.e. "i am/am not a PR") is a waste of time at best

If some enterprising mafia who decides they are better off dead decides to claim PR then suddenly we have a CC against the majority of the game. In order to narrow that down someone (but who? the last person to claim a PR is not any more likely to be lying than anyone else) has to claim AND someone else has to CC. So our only option is to start claiming, and from there it is possible we could easily get to a point to where by the time the mafia claims (or CCs, if they even decide to do so) most of the PRs are outed, and the mafia may be able to reasonably guess the rest.

:thinking:

#massclaim

Which PRs do you think are needed to stay alive to give us a better shot at winning than lynching between the sets of CC's we get?

 

[Ltin]

Which PRs do you think are needed to stay alive to give us a better shot at winning than lynching between the sets of CC's we get?

?

 

[Infected_alien8_]

?

Your post seems to assume that having some of our PRs alive is better than having a 13 player pool of Mafia to lynch from, so I'm wondering which PRs you think would give us a better chance at winning as opposed to a 50% likelihood lynch with the 'force-mafia-to-cc-method'

 

[Ltin]

Your post seems to assume that having some of our PRs alive is better than having a 13 player pool of Mafia to lynch from, so I'm wondering which PRs you think would give us a better chance at winning as opposed to a 50% likelihood lynch with the 'force-mafia-to-cc-method'

I kinda understand i think

my opposition is to massclaiming
and when that 13 player pool has one mafia in it, it isnt wise to lynch from it anyway

Specific PR roles arent entirely relevant to the situation as i described it, as a near if not total massclaim is the result anyway

 

[Ltin]

*not relevant to what happens in the massclaim

outside of the massclaim obviously it matters, but it is the actions within the massclaim that affect the situation after it