My good buddy erik5456 visited me tonight and started a conversation. He began with admitting he looks very suspicious because CaffinatedKitty turned out to be mafia. He claimed he thought Caff was innocent because Ooglie vouched for her in his private conversation with Ooglie!
He then claimed to be a lie detector and asked me to say I'm a pro town role, so of course I said yes I am a pro town role.
Not ten minutes later he claims his lie detector went off which I know that to be false, and when I accused him of not being the lie detector since the real one is already dead. He then continued to question me about my alignment for some reason even though if he really was a lie detector, it wouldn't have been necessary as he should have had all the information he needed. (The real lie detector, Danni, died a while ago)
We then got into semantics, and I flat out told him I think he's a third party because of how blatantly he lied in that conversation about the lie detector. He says I should be saying he's mafia, but what kind of mafia member chooses to have a one on one conversation with a townie?
Then I looked at who turned up dead the previous day. One mafia member, CaffeinatedKitty with a symbol by her portrait. One fence with a different symbol by his portrait. Then I put what erik was going on about in context about being scummy as well as incredibly confusing.
Erik5456 is a cult member, his alignment likely changed from either town or third party with a messaging aspect in their role at the beginning of the game. Upon flipping to the cult, he started a conversation with me to attempt to get me to say I'm mafia, so he could feed whatever information he could to his cult allies and see if I was a threat or not to them.
There are two cults in this game, and Erik is a key member in one of them with possibly Ooglie. He wants to lynch me today because I'm the easy target, and it would protect him and his cult allies and keep them safe for another day.
I vote erik5456
He then claimed to be a lie detector and asked me to say I'm a pro town role, so of course I said yes I am a pro town role.
Not ten minutes later he claims his lie detector went off which I know that to be false, and when I accused him of not being the lie detector since the real one is already dead. He then continued to question me about my alignment for some reason even though if he really was a lie detector, it wouldn't have been necessary as he should have had all the information he needed. (The real lie detector, Danni, died a while ago)
We then got into semantics, and I flat out told him I think he's a third party because of how blatantly he lied in that conversation about the lie detector. He says I should be saying he's mafia, but what kind of mafia member chooses to have a one on one conversation with a townie?
Then I looked at who turned up dead the previous day. One mafia member, CaffeinatedKitty with a symbol by her portrait. One fence with a different symbol by his portrait. Then I put what erik was going on about in context about being scummy as well as incredibly confusing.
Erik5456 is a cult member, his alignment likely changed from either town or third party with a messaging aspect in their role at the beginning of the game. Upon flipping to the cult, he started a conversation with me to attempt to get me to say I'm mafia, so he could feed whatever information he could to his cult allies and see if I was a threat or not to them.
There are two cults in this game, and Erik is a key member in one of them with possibly Ooglie. He wants to lynch me today because I'm the easy target, and it would protect him and his cult allies and keep them safe for another day.
I vote erik5456
Mooglie
The Local Cow
yeah i investigated velz (to get an understanding on what my results mean linked to sanity) and got mafia, essentially confirming i'm an insane cop (i swear to god there was not an insane cop in any game ever) since velz is almost definetely town (and jivvi was town as well), therefore meaning digi is mafia so that's fun
Alpha102 what did you supposedly do last night
Digitalmez what did you supposedly do last night
77thShad what did you supposedly do last night
erik5456 what did you supposedly do last night
Alpha102 what did you supposedly do last night
Digitalmez what did you supposedly do last night
77thShad what did you supposedly do last night
erik5456 what did you supposedly do last night
I visited Faliara as rolling a kill wouldn't be as dangerous assuming she's telling the truth about the mad gunwoman, and if she is lying then she's scum. If I rolled a protect, it's also helpful since she would be likely to be targeted by scum.
I rolled a 1. I hate this role.
I rolled a 1. I hate this role.
Mooglie
The Local Cow
i mean, as the person who had the pharmacist role which also happens to be from fog's previous game you don't get told what you roll so that's just another nice confirmation but i guess i can't prove that
or thats what i was going to say until i looked back at a few of my posts from that game and saw
https://escaperestart.com/forum/threads/lost-in-fog-game-over-town-win.20692/page-28#post-398006
for the people who are lazy and don't want to click:
'the latter
so *cough*
i probably MAYBE might have saved hex
LOOK IM BAD AT PLAYING A PROTECTIVE ROLE THAT HAS THE ABILITY TO KILL
IM A MONSTER I'M GONNA GO FOR THE KILL ACTION MOST OF THE TIME'
context: hex (mafia) would have died as a result of hk (bodyguard) but i (pharmacist) had had 0 successful saves from the role so far so i decided to try and kill hex using the pharmacist's chance to kill BUT this time i did successfully save someone but obviously they were mafia (im very useful)
anyway i bolded the important part (and rest of that day shows people giving possible scenarios that could have been cleared up if i knew what the result of my action actually was (aka being given the number i rolled))
SO HOPEFULLY that should be the nail in the coffin of what is alphas FAKE CLAIM so have fun
(of course there is a tiny remote possibility that foggy decided to change the way his own role works but there was no need to change it and so i highly highly h i g h l y doubt this happened)
remaining mafia are definitely digi, alpha and probably fali but who knows what the rest of the day has to show!!
Ooglie we only really have your word for it in that case, especially since the bolded line of text could easily be simple word choice. Especially considering what I just revealed about Erik, I really think both you and Erik are in a cult team together.
What also bugs me is that you go for role mechanics over actions, and between you and Erik I get the sense of a couple cult members trying to control the town and take over the game. Honestly I would even go out on a limb and say you used Erik to get a read on me to see if I was worth investigating or not, or if I 'confessed' to being mafia you could just as easily have used that as evidence in place of your extremely dodgy role mechanic claim. As you even admitted in that post, Fog could have changed the mechanics since then and since neither of us know what the role PMs look like for each other, there's very little I can do or say in that department.
I'm also concerned that for all the mafia/scum hunting, there is very little discussion on who's in a cult or who's not, so I think the game is devolving into multiple cliques of people voting and acting together.
Ooglie/Erik I believe to be in the cult together. Both on separate occasions have used dodgy tactics to attempt to implicate me (Erik's lie detector...lie, Ooglie's pharmacist mechanics), and it looks like it's do or die for both of them and have to go with the person that appears to be the quickest lynch, I'm not comfortable voting for a possible cop, so Erik's scummy behavior is driving my vote at the moment.
What also bugs me is that you go for role mechanics over actions, and between you and Erik I get the sense of a couple cult members trying to control the town and take over the game. Honestly I would even go out on a limb and say you used Erik to get a read on me to see if I was worth investigating or not, or if I 'confessed' to being mafia you could just as easily have used that as evidence in place of your extremely dodgy role mechanic claim. As you even admitted in that post, Fog could have changed the mechanics since then and since neither of us know what the role PMs look like for each other, there's very little I can do or say in that department.
I'm also concerned that for all the mafia/scum hunting, there is very little discussion on who's in a cult or who's not, so I think the game is devolving into multiple cliques of people voting and acting together.
Ooglie/Erik I believe to be in the cult together. Both on separate occasions have used dodgy tactics to attempt to implicate me (Erik's lie detector...lie, Ooglie's pharmacist mechanics), and it looks like it's do or die for both of them and have to go with the person that appears to be the quickest lynch, I'm not comfortable voting for a possible cop, so Erik's scummy behavior is driving my vote at the moment.
Mooglie
The Local Cow
i mean like i said you can look at rest of day/even rest of game
what do you mean 'over actions'
and yes i question role mechanics why would i not
there was 0 reason for fog to change, especially given it was his own role so he knew how it worked, but yes this is not a 100% argument, more of a 99.99% argument!
i mean it really isn't extremely dodgy it went from not telling numbers -> supposedly telling numbers for literally no apparent/existent reason
i'd chalk that down to a fake claim (along with hips scummy behaviour + you saying hip did nothing past night 2 was it (i REALLY highly doubt that) + the idea of four protection roles in a single game)
i mean, if this situation was true i'd much rather push harder on digi who has the most actual evidence against her (2 guilty reports on 2 confirmed towns (im counting velz as confirmed town + jivvi) and then an innocent report on an unproven and imo suspicious player) but
----------------
as for the cult stuff
77thShad please reveal your ENTIRE NIGHT ACTION LIST (including the names of the people you targeted) and then we can talk about cults!
I need to look at Velz more closely, and I don't entirely buy your cop claim either Ooglie. You said that there's not a single insane cop in any of the escrestart games, which points more to my suspicion that you're actually in the cult or even the cult leader. Yes Mulberry saved you but that only proves you're not a killing role, but conversions on the other hand are likely still happening twofold since no cult leaders have turned up dead yet.
Velzerat what is going on in your head? You haven't posted since I replaced hipman and I want to hear the confirmation from you. Hell, Digitalmez what are you doing I caught you peeking at the thread too during the last mafia day and you didn't say anything.
Velzerat what is going on in your head? You haven't posted since I replaced hipman and I want to hear the confirmation from you. Hell, Digitalmez what are you doing I caught you peeking at the thread too during the last mafia day and you didn't say anything.
Mooglie
The Local Cow
but then why would i say i got an inno on digi and not just say mafia and claim im a paranoid cop (of which there have been many in escres)
'you did it so you could use this whole argument'
shut ur mouth person whos gonna say that
also velz is more or less proven by the fact that he's had the dog claim going since day 0 (with woof/bark/whatever in every post) and i think everyone can agree he wouldn't be bothered enough to look at previous games from so early on to come up with a fake claim
This does seem strange behaviour to me but I investigated Erik last night and I was told he had no cult allegiance that I could identify. I would like to hear what Erik has to say on this tbh because im inclined not to believe that this is how it really went down.
This also worries me.
erik5456 Enderfive Ooglie101
I’m pretty sure all three of you are part of a cult yourselves by this point, due to Erik claiming his lie detector nailed Endy, Oog and Caff as town when Caff turned out to be mafia. With trying to pressure 77 into revealing the name of the Masons previously mentioned, you’re likely trying to find out who the opposing cult is, too. I’m not sure what to think about this, other than this is likely going to affect motivations for who people are going to lynch, and so making this quite a bit more complicated.
Erik, I’ve asked this before, but you never answered it. What’s your role name? And if you supposedly believed Caff was town through a conversation with Ooglie, was there another third person who you conversed with?
I’m pretty sure all three of you are part of a cult yourselves by this point, due to Erik claiming his lie detector nailed Endy, Oog and Caff as town when Caff turned out to be mafia. With trying to pressure 77 into revealing the name of the Masons previously mentioned, you’re likely trying to find out who the opposing cult is, too. I’m not sure what to think about this, other than this is likely going to affect motivations for who people are going to lynch, and so making this quite a bit more complicated.
Erik, I’ve asked this before, but you never answered it. What’s your role name? And if you supposedly believed Caff was town through a conversation with Ooglie, was there another third person who you conversed with?
I've been saying that about Ooglie and Erik! Erik conversed with me last night and was very threatening and railroady. He lied about being a lie detector in hopes he could get me to confess. When I told him the truth he still accused me of lying, and it makes me sad when people move the goalposts like that on me. Coupled with Erik's lying about Caff's innocence and relying on Ooglie for information, they have clearly paired up.
However, given that Ooglie somehow didn't investigate me last night and inspected velz...Ooglie and Erik have been dividing their actions up perfectly. Erik was sent to try to interrogate me, and Ooglie wanted to test his alleged cop claim...A real cop would have investigated me for being a complete unknown since I'm a replacement, not waste an entire night action visiting someone already confirmed. I suspect Ooglie converted someone else, and given my ranting about a cult it's clearly not me.
Both Ooglie and Erik are playing from the perspective of what's best for them, not what's best for the town. Erik in particular framed our conversation as a 'I win no matter what you choose', and that screams cult.
However, given that Ooglie somehow didn't investigate me last night and inspected velz...Ooglie and Erik have been dividing their actions up perfectly. Erik was sent to try to interrogate me, and Ooglie wanted to test his alleged cop claim...A real cop would have investigated me for being a complete unknown since I'm a replacement, not waste an entire night action visiting someone already confirmed. I suspect Ooglie converted someone else, and given my ranting about a cult it's clearly not me.
Both Ooglie and Erik are playing from the perspective of what's best for them, not what's best for the town. Erik in particular framed our conversation as a 'I win no matter what you choose', and that screams cult.
I still trust Oog’s cop claim to some extent, so I don’t think he went and converted anyone, just took a chance; and yet, the fact that he still felt the need to test it on Velz is a very good point, and is... The more I think about it, it really is odd.
Speaking of Oog, he investigated Digi once and said here she came up as town; considering Oog presumably is an Insane Cop, that means Digi might be mafia. But she claims to be a Town Ghoul as well, and if I remember correctly, it’s been mentioned at some point that in its original game it would come up as its opposite alignment in cop investigations. That’s another minefield we’ve kind of been ignoring for a while, and should put into more consideration.
When it comes to you and Erik’s conversation, it’s very easy to assume that you’re trying to get people off your back as soon as possible by talking about the convo immediately; however, considering that Erik lied about actually checking Caff through the lie detector when he could have just said he doesn’t think Caff is mafia (I DON’T CARE IF YOU TRUST OOG’S OPINION AS TOWN erik5456 , WHY WOULD YOU SAY YOU CHECKED HER THROUGH THE LIE DETECTOR, YOU KNOW OPINIONS CAN BE WRONG), told me to shoot Later_Gator who I trust as town when I die, and still hasn’t claimed his role name proper, I am absolutely willing to trust you over him right now.
Ooglie101 , in regards to how Alphy shouldn’t be getting the number of her rolls, I apparently should only be able to kill if I die in the day or something as well, so I consider it believable that our hosts did indeed alter some of the roles from their original ability. It’s not impossible.
by the way
why have all of the mafia who have died thus far only have *one time use abilities*
I honestly don’t know, we only get the symbols of the cults when members die and not the cult names (unless there’s something I’m not noticing here). Considering they’re trying to find out the names of the Masons, though, it’s reasonable to assume they’re the Communists, unless they’re trying to get 77 to out their own names.
Where was 77 confirmed as a cult cop? Even if names don't pop up for him there could still be role modifiers that are completely nullifying investigations. Every inspect so far has looked to be confusingly thought out, and there might be so many exceptions in this game it could be a complete red herring.
It's also possible for cult members to just say they're masons to try to win favor of the town at a critical moment...it's a short term solution as the real masons would then target them, but in terms of just getting that one last vote for a majority...I think this is the tipping point for the game at the rate of possible conversions and the people that have already flipped with cult symbols.
It's also possible for cult members to just say they're masons to try to win favor of the town at a critical moment...it's a short term solution as the real masons would then target them, but in terms of just getting that one last vote for a majority...I think this is the tipping point for the game at the rate of possible conversions and the people that have already flipped with cult symbols.
He... I don’t think 77 was ever confirmed. It was simply what he chose to claim at some point in time, and right now everyone’s running with it.
That... That is true. Not necessarily just the Masons, either; the Communist cult might claim too. Maybe not just to win favor, though; claiming would also make some investigations easier, because of how tangled up it can get when there’s more than just the motivations of town and mafia. ... But if the member of one cult claims, the other cult will probably try to kill them as soon as possible, including through manipulating of the lynch.
With that said, I think I hate the cult mechanic.
In that case 77 could have faked a bunch of night visits, considering nobody bothered to challenge him on it. In his claim post he admitted his role name is of a completely unrelated role, giving credibility to the fact that Fog may have changed things, or 77 flat out lied.
The fact that 77 says something returned the result of Masons, is screaming to me he's actually in either a cult or the Masons. For instance, he could be buddying with Erik and Ooglie.
Undeniably though there have been nurmerous faction changes and conversions, along with what I assume to be the altering of win conditions. This isn't just town versus mafia, this is town versus mafia versus cult versus cult. And since we're five days in...somebody is close to a majority. We need to figure out the most likely cult leader and lynch them today, hopefully that disables recruitment if I remember my cult mechanics correctly.
Ooglie I would say is a strong candidate for a cult leader; he's been using the fact he was saved to masquerade as completely town sided, and has a very ill-defined cop role as his claim. He's also been calling the shots when it comes to voting as well as telling people who to shoot. Erik apparently defers to Ooglie too on account of the conversation he began with me.
unvote
vote Ooglie101
The fact that 77 says something returned the result of Masons, is screaming to me he's actually in either a cult or the Masons. For instance, he could be buddying with Erik and Ooglie.
Undeniably though there have been nurmerous faction changes and conversions, along with what I assume to be the altering of win conditions. This isn't just town versus mafia, this is town versus mafia versus cult versus cult. And since we're five days in...somebody is close to a majority. We need to figure out the most likely cult leader and lynch them today, hopefully that disables recruitment if I remember my cult mechanics correctly.
Ooglie I would say is a strong candidate for a cult leader; he's been using the fact he was saved to masquerade as completely town sided, and has a very ill-defined cop role as his claim. He's also been calling the shots when it comes to voting as well as telling people who to shoot. Erik apparently defers to Ooglie too on account of the conversation he began with me.
unvote
vote Ooglie101
https://escaperestart.com/forum/threads/the-red-scare-game-over.20667/page-69
If cults work anything like the ones in this thread, when a cult wins it’s supposed to be alongside either town or mafia. With that said, I don’t think it’s mafia vs town vs cult vs cult.
Speaking of the Red Scare thread, I’m trying to work up the motivation to read through its 70 pages, but haven’t yet.
That's an unusual way of doing it.
Some games have had cults as their own independent factions that win at the expense of other factions. Infact I think that's usually how it works.
Considering it's better to not take any chances, I'm going to act as if it's the latter, if only to prevent a 'gotcha' style of win.
If we go with that assumption that a cult will win if it has half of the town, then neither cult currently has more than four members. If a cult gets to five members then they have enough to either stall the vote into a nolynch or outright win.
I think I'll make a mini-claim here while I'm at it: I am not in a cult.
Some games have had cults as their own independent factions that win at the expense of other factions. Infact I think that's usually how it works.
Considering it's better to not take any chances, I'm going to act as if it's the latter, if only to prevent a 'gotcha' style of win.
If we go with that assumption that a cult will win if it has half of the town, then neither cult currently has more than four members. If a cult gets to five members then they have enough to either stall the vote into a nolynch or outright win.
I think I'll make a mini-claim here while I'm at it: I am not in a cult.
Did just about what Alpha said.
Not a mafia or 3p though, I'm a townie as I've mentioned beforehand.
I guess nows as good a time to claim as any due to the fact that we're entering the end game and Alpha's got a point that we're approaching a clutch point
To put it simply, whereas some people are useless unless dead, I'm straight out useless once I claim. I am the Journalist. There's no lie detector in my role whatsoever. I get to pick somebody during the day, visit them at night, and then get a night chat with them. From there, every night I get to write 100 words in a journal that's released to the town upon my death.
AKA I'm useless now unfortunately. The reason I did the lie detector thing was due to the fact that I've been using this as a bit of an investigative role. I would ask for town aligned or no and people would say yes. From there I would say they were wrong and gauge responses. That's why I made my claims as they were. I know freaky is a cult leader because she admitted it to me when cults weren't yet relevant for example.
As for alpha, I pushed a little more than alpha seemed comfortable with and we started a little back and forth as described. After Caff though, I was not too comfortable in trusting since they could've easily told mafia what my tactic was after fooling me. Judging alpha's current behavior and what I noticed though, thats some scummy behavior. You're trying to lunch our cop???????? And saying velz isn't basically confirmed???? And that Oog isn't confirmed when mulb saved him??
Ignoring all this for now though, we should go with the safest bet and just lynch digi. I think Oog made the right decision regarding inspecting velz because otherwise how would one be certain of what the reports are? One way or another though,
Vote digi
Not a mafia or 3p though, I'm a townie as I've mentioned beforehand.
I guess nows as good a time to claim as any due to the fact that we're entering the end game and Alpha's got a point that we're approaching a clutch point
To put it simply, whereas some people are useless unless dead, I'm straight out useless once I claim. I am the Journalist. There's no lie detector in my role whatsoever. I get to pick somebody during the day, visit them at night, and then get a night chat with them. From there, every night I get to write 100 words in a journal that's released to the town upon my death.
AKA I'm useless now unfortunately. The reason I did the lie detector thing was due to the fact that I've been using this as a bit of an investigative role. I would ask for town aligned or no and people would say yes. From there I would say they were wrong and gauge responses. That's why I made my claims as they were. I know freaky is a cult leader because she admitted it to me when cults weren't yet relevant for example.
As for alpha, I pushed a little more than alpha seemed comfortable with and we started a little back and forth as described. After Caff though, I was not too comfortable in trusting since they could've easily told mafia what my tactic was after fooling me. Judging alpha's current behavior and what I noticed though, thats some scummy behavior. You're trying to lunch our cop???????? And saying velz isn't basically confirmed???? And that Oog isn't confirmed when mulb saved him??
Ignoring all this for now though, we should go with the safest bet and just lynch digi. I think Oog made the right decision regarding inspecting velz because otherwise how would one be certain of what the reports are? One way or another though,
Vote digi