Teamspeak issues.

[Mach9824]

Now this is something that has been bugging me for a little bit. I will claim that I do this myself and that is the reason why I am posting this.

The point of the privacy rooms is to have a private conversation with one or many other people. Now on the room name it clearly states to ask before entering. Now People seem to get into their little clix and groups over teamspeak which is fine. However it is getting to the point where people from said groups are just entering the channel without taking a second thought.

Now most of the time this is not an issue, but for the 1 time out of 10 that it is, it can cause problems. I think that the "asking before entering" should be more enforced in some way.

That is just my personal opinion, I do not know if other groups experience the same problem but I just thought that I would throw that out there.

 

[Vatowski]

If someone joins your room without asking, simply report him/her then

 

[AotsFTW]

I agree. I was in the privacy room talking to myself and my thoughts were rudely interrupted by someone. Darn people can't leave a guy to talk to himself.

(Kidding, but this did happen; no offence taken, just a joke.)

 

[ethical1337]

If someone joins your room without asking, simply report him/her then

The problem with that is not everyone wants to go running to the admins, because they may be friends joining but not people that they currently want to talk to, joined the channel. Say I'm trying to talk to Avantgarde but then some other friends join in but I didn't want to talk at that point but I also don't want to tell them to leave for fear of coming off rude. I try my best not to do this to people but I am starting to get annoyed with it.

Now I know I am an op and can kick people and choose not to do so myself and I know a few other ops who would simply allow the people in before asking them to leave, so this should also be for those who cannot kick people.

I do also see the other side. Where if this is to have meaning. Everyone has to follow it and enforce it. If you didn't want them in there you need to tell them that.

Now to the people who join privacy rooms without asking I need to tell you. Do not be offended when someone asks you to leave or to start kicking because it is getting to be rude.

 

[Jayfeather]

I'm the one disagreeing with this, because I feel it doesn't really require rules enforced, but more common sense applied. I pay no mind to people I know really well joining my Convo Room - usually. One or two times in the past year I would've minded - but people thought a little bit and asked. For example, if I see Blue and Water then I join in, not a word mentioned about it - but if I see someone I don't know as well, or people that could probably use the privacy then I stay away. Its all about just deciding if its not worth the ask.

 

[Mach9824]

I pay no mind to people I know really well joining my Convo Room - usually. For example, if I see Blue and Water then I join in, not a word mentioned about it. Its all about just deciding if its not worth the ask.

Im going to take your words out of context here. And I want you to know that I am not personally attacking you or your opinions.

But honestly what you just wrote is the exact point I am trying to convey, I know that groups of peopel are comfortable with each other and that this is most likely not an issue. But nevertheless it seems that (and again I am not attacking you) this reasoning is justifying a means to have the rules not aply to them.

It is a rule, and the extra two seconds that it takes to pm someone: "May I please enter the channel." should always be worth it. Rules are set there to be followed, and it is what makes our community run at a higher standard than any other. If they are mistreated or abused, what does that say for the integrity of the server.

Again I respect your opinion, but I still feel this is needed.

 

[ethical1337]

Privacy rooms. Ask to enter when in use.

Entering without asking will result in a kick / (temp) ban.
These are not AFK rooms. Only to be used for conversations, so 2 or more people.
(unless it is head staff checking in if everything is ok.)

This is right from the privacy rooms description. There is nothing that says you should judge wether to join or not. It is simply join without asking and get kicked. Now with people you know very well you may feel free to join. However let me ask you this.

If I am in this room just shooting the breeze with 2 of my friends, you join without asking and we don't care. Everything is good. However now my friends are all ops and we are having a discussion about personal issues and we didn't want anyone else to overhear. These are with the same people keep in mind. Then you join and overhear us or force us to stop talking about it. We are friends and we don't feel like kicking or asking if you can leave (yes some people are too shy to even ask for some time alone) so now we sit there not finishing what we were talking about.

It is a rule, and the extra two seconds that it takes to pm someone: "May I please enter the channel." should always be worth it. As Mach said I feel this needs to be emphasized more.

 

[Jayfeather]

I can see what you're saying, my point of view is vastly different - my cliques are smaller, and we never really talk about anything too serious - so in the long run you're probably right.

 

[Shinyshark]

I always ask before entering a Convo room, unless it's a room where somoneone is alone and AFK (You can check by viewing their activity time). I agree though, a convo room is meant to have conversations but if everyone is going to join in without asking there's little to no point.

 

[paceboys]

I agree with this enforcement of the rule. But as jayfeather said, if i see a convo with my friends in it, i jump right in and no one cares. But if its people i dnt now too well, then i obviously ask.i have had people intrude on my convos a few times, but those few times it was me and one other person discussing something important. Maybe set the warning to a popup when you join a convo? Like the message when you join the server (if this is possible im just throwing out ideas).

 

[Pick Yer Poison]

Okay, let's get something straight here.

Rules are only useful when they are helping.

This is a case of looking at the letter of the law and ignoring the spirit of it. The rule is designed to keep people from jumping into private conversations without the approval of those having them. It's the equivalent of a closed door with a window that lets you see who's inside - if you're confident that you can walk in and not provoke a reaction, you're free to do so. If nobody has a problem with you coming inside, I see no reason why you should be forced to take an extra step to do so. I've had many times where I've joined a privacy channel with friends who are all in a fullscreen game - why should they have to alt-tab out so I can come join them when I know they wouldn't be annoyed?

Now, if, on the other hand, an intrusion is not welcome, then it's up to the people who didn't want to be interrupted to decide on a course of action. That might mean asking them to leave, requesting staff assistance, leaving themselves, or any number of things.

What this rule does provide is the right to call for staff assistance if someone does intrude on a private conversation, and, except in extraordinary circumstances, can count on the staff in question being on their side.

May expand later if needed, have to get to a final at the moment.

 

[ethical1337]

While I do agree with what you said PYP. It makes a lot of sense yes. But there have been quite a few cases where I will be in a convo room playing with Avantgarde in a game, be it starcraft or tf2, ,ect. With maybe one or two extra people with whom we like to talk. We went in there for privacy knowing we would be doing a lot of chatting about the game we are playing. We do this for two reasons. One so that we don't disturb anyone else with our gaming talk while they are all talking to each other, and two so that we don't have to worry about talking over anyone. Now someone we know and don't mind joins.

This happens daily. Sometimes we don't even realize they had joined for a while(being to into our game). Then someone who sees this person well enough joins in, and the chain begins. By the time I alt-tab or quit my game there are upwards of 7-9 people. At this time there are a lot of people talking, having discussions right over the gameplay chat I am trying to have.

Now if they join in and don't mind the gaming chatter that's fine. However I don't think they realize how much we have to wait for others to finish before I can say things like. *we are being attacked over here* or *there is a spy* and stuff like that and it hurts the gameplay we went in the convo room for.

That is mostly why I feel like asking should happen.

I just don't like to kick people for trying to socialize with me either and I have always had a harder time personally asking people to leave because of this over empathetic approach I tend to have when dealing with people. Especially those willing to put up with me.

 

[Trap_Wolf]

Hi.

Before I begin, my post will be more directly aimed at the experiences I have with myself rather than a huge harangue about the sociology of the topic. ((Edit: Okay this statement lied a little, but it's what most of my post is going to be directly aimed at.))

When I want legitimate privacy: ((and "friends"))
I indicate it in my username. "Trap Wolf | {content}" is the everyday display name and when I have had serious conversations with people and it seemed to extend for a long time; I displayed it as in "Trap Wolf | Ask to enter"
"Trap Wolf | Srsly ask2entr" because I already know the tendency to be lenient with the rule because we're "friends." Like I can see how you're conflicting in your post; if we're all friends we all should be able to get along fine without this extra step.

Stating that it should also work the other way around. Do not be afraid to tell your friends when you want actual privacy. The rooms can blatantly be used as a real life analogy to rooms. If you and another person(s) go into a room and shut the door, it will show a mark for desired closed conversation, but a best friend isn't going to see that at first because of the comfort level they may have with either you or one of the other person(s). They'll walked in, and in real life you would look at them and tell them to walk out.

We as "friends" should not be afraid to ask our friends to temporarily leave, and we should not get offended* when it is asked.

*What will offend us though is when there is a group of 5+ people that we feel with have a considerable relationship with each and every one of them and we are denied access into the convo room.

How I've seen the rule in action: ((and a broken bit of the rule))
"Privacy rooms. Ask to enter when in use."

How does it play out? One of two ways:
1) Player A asks Player B if they can join Player B, C, ((and possibly D, and E.))
2) Player B says yes you may join
3) Player B annouces that Player A wishes to join and a group vote is initiated.

What usually happens is two. I've seen a many group majority votings disregarded by the starting individual. That then shows that the rule is null and void to Player C, D, and E.

Or possibly Player B won't start a vote and just answer back with a no. ((Yes there are a lot of implied statements with the scenarios I have just said out, but if we're actually being intelligent here I think everyone can pick up on these themes rather than having to type them word for word.))

Last night when I was attempting to get into a convo room for my midnight shenanigans, I respected @Mach9824's wishes by directly poking him a question to enter. He was afk, and without that knowledge being first known to me I was offended as a person because I was not directly being answered with an affirmative "no." Plus, the whole time I thought it was absolutely ridiculous that I even had to ask, because yes, I envisage that I have a group of people over the world wide web that match the standards of what is labeled a "friend," and furthermore if I see 5+ of your in a convo chat and absolutely no one else that I recognize in the Teamspeak universe, I am going to enter the chat room, and I am going to be offended when I don't get a reactionary answer to a question "May I enter the chat room." ((Good thing the first thing you said to me was that you were afk when I entered))

What an enforcement of this rule means to a a group of "friends:"
It can actually offend each and every one of them, if it seems like each one of them is not comfortable enough with each other that:

If nobody has a problem with you coming inside . . .

then they should, as an understanding group, be able to enter the chat room without problem, because neither of them should be afraid to state their mind and opinion when it comes to what they consider as the private rooms being between "private from public" and "private from friends."

This leads us on too . . . !

What I think this thread's purpose really is: ((or what is should be))

GUYS. If this is a diminutive problem with our social group then it should remained with our social group. Not the entirety of Blocktopia because it does not involve the entirety of Blocktopia. Unless you guys were having a problem with other Blocktopian members ((or hell all of Blocktopia)) entering your private chats then this would be a thread of actual concern.*

Just tell us. To fucking leave. ((which you have before and I have obliged even if I wasn't happy about it because it felt like you were isolating me.))

Exceptions:
- When some random ass named "haze_master" or something was going around and entering every single private chat that one night. I hope he's banned.
- Jappa, she'll always be upset at a negative force in anything.

*It is my true seeing that we shouldn't enforce this rule ((oh god what the hell am I saying)) because it's a rule that isn't directly intended to prevent friends from speaking with other friends. It's a rule that's to protect people from public, or random, people joining the chat rooms.

I liked with

Rules are only useful when they are helping.

because it got SO MANY THINGS out of the way cause of awesome implications. Like having this step can be seen as humiliating to friends of friends because it will be a mark against them that a group they feel they are close enough that they should be able to go into a room containing a LARGE GROUP OF THEIR friends ((applicable in real life)) without having to knock the door. In sociology standards; that means that you don't think that person is a well enough character to interact with, that you have to make them feel inferior on the spectrum by making them acknowledge the rule. It. Is. Exigent. It works the other way around when you don't tell that person to leave and they find out later in another indirect way that you did not wish for them to be there, and you didn't just tell them.

Next, this statement implied that if you don't want someone in the channel and they refuse to leave you contact an HA or someone who can temporarily ban them. Etc etc, no HA isn't going to enter every convo room asking if every individual person there has permission to enter the chat room.

As a reminder; just because I read PYP's sentence and marked out what I felt it said, does not directly mean what PYP intended.

Followup:
- Use your display name to show to everyone that you're actually having a srsrs conversation and do not want anyone else to enter the chat.
- Without specifics stated the rule is bendable either way.
- It's not a Blocktopian issue, it's a small-active-group-on-Teamspeak's issue.

Re-quoting this because this is actually what I want to leave my post off on:

GUYS. If this is a diminutive problem with our social group then it should remained with our social group. Not the entirety of Blocktopia because it does not involve the entirety of Blocktopia. Unless you guys were having a problem with other Blocktopian members ((or hell all of Blocktopia)) entering your private chats then this would be a thread of actual concern.

I quoted myself within reasonable bounds. Whoo hoo!

 

[Pick Yer Poison]

Aaaaaaaaand TrapWolf basically ninja'd me with a bunch of points I was going to make. Darnit, TrapWolf.

First and foremost, as he stated, you guys don't have a problem with the community as a whole. You've got a problem because you're antsy about telling your friends (or friends of friends) to go away. And the solution you've suggested for it will solve that problem without it directly being your fault, sure. In theory. For a little while. At the expense of a massive drain on all Teamspeak 3 staff that will often prevent them from enjoying their time on there.

And actually, everything else I was going to say is actually more or less summed up by this:

We as "friends" should not be afraid to ask our friends to temporarily leave, and we should not get offended when it is asked.

 

[ethical1337]

Now you guys have made very solid points a lot of which I agree with. However, calling one problem with a group in Blocktopia, especially since our group is a fairly large one for teamspeak(for regular usage), an issue for only us to deal with can lead to problems too.

Also the door metaphor doesn't work for your argument either. My best friend would never EVER barge into my room with the door closed without knocking first. knocking being the equivalent of asking to enter.

How do we do this without hurting someone or a few people now. Those people who join without asking now get turned away without remorse because we decided we had enough and nothing else is changing. Now they get hurt/stop coming on teamspeak. We would lose teamspeak and maybe even community users/players that way to0. So in my opinion claiming "asking to enter would lessen users" isn't a valid approach.

Also having people ask to enter for convo rooms as a blanket rule for people will make others get offended less.

As Trap_wolf said
*What will offend us though is when there is a group of 5+ people that we feel with have a considerable relationship with each and every one of them and we are denied access into the convo room.

I feel this is wrong not in that people don't get offended, but rather that they shouldn't. For the same reasons I have stated before. Even if there are 5+ people, we could all be playing the same game, we could all be having a serious discussion, or maybe just having a private one amongst close friends. Then someone pops in without asking and others do the same. We are now not talking or having to talk over people.

For me a convo room is for privacy we having gaming channels where people can jump in and join in the gaming fun. But the convo room was designed for private chats. and hey maybe this group wants that person in there. All they do is poke someone and get a consensus from everyone if it is ok. Now they are in and everyone is fine. If not then that person should understand it was for privacy.

Now I know that sounds like you are separating this person and thats negative too. Now specifically with me I know I hang out with certain people depending on the mood I am in and with whom I am willing to tolerate. If I had a bad day maybe I don't want to deal with players yelling or raging or cursing and even if its not that I want to avoid that, maybe I want a quiet talk with a few people.


All in all I feel telling us to deal with it among ourselves is brushing off the problem because this can happen to any group at any time and also can make whoever does kick someone out feel like an ass. some people are too shy to do this and then the person stuck with the job will end up being disliked by all those kicked instead of having a mutual way of knowing when to enter or not.

Edit: Also this has become a conversation of enforcing or not enforcing this particular rule/concept. However say we rule against enforcing it. There is still a problem that a few people would like dealt with, without having to insult or exclude people. Suggestions otherwise would be a good step also without simply rejecting the one proposed here.

Double edit: Also thinking again this conversation has taken a turn towards sounding urgent and almost as if we are just whining. I want to reinforce that this is a request to make a change to help better some users' experience. However this is to debate ways to fix the problem as well.
it doesn't have to be an instant fix but something that will show some results with the interest of everybody in mind.

 

[Pick Yer Poison]

First off:

So in my opinion claiming "asking to enter would lessen users" isn't a valid approach.

Nobody's used this argument in the entire thread, so I'm not exactly sure where you got the idea it needed refuting.

Anyway...

A lot of your post seems to be revolving around the idea of "if someone joins without asking and is asked to leave, everyone feels bad." I'm drawing this idea from the way you explain how the person doing the asking feels like an ass and how the person who's asked to leave feels left out.

Now, I don't know about the rest of the folks reading this, but that seems like a pretty subjective opinion.

First of all, for the person doing the asking to avoid feeling like an ass, all they have to do is be polite. A simple, "Sorry, we were in the middle of something; could you come back later?" is all it takes to drop a very blatant hint that the room is not open to random joiners. If someone refuses to leave a privacy channel they joined without asking after being asked politely to do so then THEY'RE BEING AN ASS. Friends, on the whole, are not asses to friends, and will leave if politely asked to.

Second, for the person who's being asked to leave. This one's pretty simple. They joined a privacy channel without asking, and in doing so accepted the risk that hey, whoever's in there might want some privacy. They probably came in there expecting otherwise, but the implication is there, and if they ignored it, then, again, THEY'RE BEING AN ASS. Friends, on the whole, are not asses to friends, and will realize that if they walk into a friend's room without knowing the situation then they risk being told to leave.

Third, for something you've been using as an example but haven't quite pulled up, friends coming in and then inviting third parties. They should not be doing this, and you have every right to ask them not to. If I'm playing iSketch with several people and Malcovent walks in and listens, that's fine. If he starts inviting a bunch of other people and we have a problem with them being there, for any reason at all, then we ask them to leave. And being the good friend he is, Malcovent will respect that and move the group elsewhere or ask them to disperse.

To make this blunter: Every problem you're describing can be easily solved by remembering that friends are not assholes. They won't get mad at you if you want some privacy. They'll respect your wishes if they've overstepped a boundary. If your friends would actually yell, rage, and curse at you for asking them not to intrude on you, there is a really big problem and it's not with the Teamspeak rules.

 

[ethical1337]

First off:



Nobody's used this argument in the entire thread, so I'm not exactly sure where you got the idea it needed refuting.

Anyway...

Sorry about that lack of sleep and misreading ect, ect. I meant to type about the drain on all staff you suggested.

At the expense of a massive drain on all Teamspeak 3 staff that will often prevent them from enjoying their time on there.

Also I am not just talking about myself in the *not wanting to be an ass to someone* thing. I know quite a few who are too shy to speak up when that happens to them. The third party joining in thing. Also I have had issues with politely or attempting to politely ask someone and they still get mad and causing hard feelings on both parties.

 

[Pick Yer Poison]

Also I am not just talking about myself in the *not wanting to be an ass to someone* thing. I know quite a few who are too shy to speak up when that happens to them. The third party joining in thing. Also I have had issues with politely or attempting to politely ask someone and they still get mad and causing hard feelings on both parties.

I wasn't singling you out with that last post - what I said there is meant to apply to everyone who's having the same sort of problem. At a certain point it's a much better use of staff time to help people help themselves rather than do everything for them.

That said, if someone needs an op's assistance and doesn't want to be singled out as the person who requested it, they can easily poke the op and ask that they come in and help get someone to leave, and also ask that they do so without saying who requested it. Staff will always respect this decision, except possibly in extreme circumstances (as left to be defined by the staff themselves).

 

[ethical1337]

Yeah. Had a chat with Malcovent on TS about this thread in general. Had some good discussion. As for the purpose of this thread I don't think it will really go anywhere. As I do see and agree with pretty much everything. Just need to man up sometimes. Regardless of hurting people's feelings or not. Sometimes being too nice or too shy can hurt ya even with friends.

 

[Deadl0ck]

Privacy rooms. Ask to enter when in use.

Entering without asking will result in a kick / (temp) ban.
These are not AFK rooms. Only to be used for conversations, so 2 or more people.
(unless it is head staff checking in if everything is ok.)

I think that the "asking before entering" should be more enforced in some way.

Staff is staff is staff is staff. We have staff shields that, afaik, give you at the very least, kicking power over lesser ranks.
Staff on game servers are also staff on TS. There is a reason you have a staff shield.

Feel a rule should be enforced more? Enforce it. Try to warn, before you start kicking and banning, obviously. We are VERY lenient on TS, for good reason, but the privacy rooms by all means, feel free to enforce them. This also means that you can address a single person if they are in there by themselves, hogging a room.

 

[ethical1337]

Staff is staff is staff is staff. We have staff shields that, afaik, give you at the very least, kicking power over lesser ranks.
Staff on game servers are also staff on TS. There is a reason you have a staff shield.

Feel a rule should be enforced more? Enforce it. Try to warn, before you start kicking and banning, obviously. We are VERY lenient on TS, for good reason, but the privacy rooms by all means, feel free to enforce them. This also means that you can address a single person if they are in there by themselves, hogging a room.

Yeah I realized I was trying to tip toe around the problem because I didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings. While I don't see that as a bad thing, I also know if I want something one way I should work for it myself.

 

[Chillingworth]

Don't want to barge in with and mess up this whole thing, but I'd like to point out one thing;

If the conversation is truly private, and you're afraid someone is going to jump into the room without asking, why not use another client such as Skype (or for group chats, ooVoo)? That takes away the risk.

 

[ethical1337]

Not everyone has those programs to begin with, but the problem was more of not wanting to have to relocate if necessary. However, I feel this issue isn't really needed to be in discussion anymore.