MEDIEVAL MAFIA: INTRUSION [DAY 8]

[Jivvi]

Hm, still yet undecided, will read through again

 

[MarsKid]

ALSO, TO ALL PLAYERS WHO HAVE BEEN VERY INACTIVE SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE GAME, TELL ME IF YOU DO NOT WISH TO PLAY AND I WILL TRY TO FIND A REPLACEMENT. OTHERWISE PLEASE PARTICIPATE AND DON'T BE PARTY-POOPERS. Thank you.

 

[Jivvi]

This.

 

[Hunter]

Thanks for the announcement; I'm sick of those inactives.

 

[Jivvi]

Vote Hunter

I don't really see much evidence with the cover up last night, but as I previously mentioned I found Ltins lynch to be a big bandwagon and I see hunter as a vanguard of it.

vote Hunter

Frankly, while you've both stockpiled a little bit of evidence now,you started with zilch.
vote The road to ruin
I'm fairly certain that either Road, Ansoro or Hunter are mafia. I'm also fairly sure that if Road turns out to be town, Ansoro will push on me. Out of all three, I think Ansoro is the most suspicious here, but Road has the most evidence against him so far. And while Ansoro did play aggressively in the Doomed Cruise, he actually provided solid evidence straight off the bat. That said, Hunter's shorthanded explanations may or may not need to be relooked-over. If Hunter is mafia, I'm wondering if is could actually be a bus attempt, using suspicion that other's already have to make one of the other mafia come across as innocent.

 

[Jivvi]

Wow, quotes messed up, will fix

 

[Jivvi]

I really thought Ltin was going to be mafia or at least third party. The way Ltin started reacting/talking towards the end was really suspicious. I guess that was an easy way for mafia to BW that. But I'm sure not all of them did vote for him. That would be dumb.

Anyways, after Ltin died I did went back and read the ones who voted for Ltin and their reasons. And in my opinion the one I found more bandwagon-ish is Hunter. I've actually had some suspicious of Hunter even before all the Ltin thing happened.

vote Hunter

Vote Hunter


I don't really see much evidence with the cover up last night, but as I previously mentioned I found Ltins lynch to be a big bandwagon and I see hunter as a vanguard of it.

Also, Hunter has been contributing to the conversation in other ways too, which is more either of you can say for yourselves:

Before this vote for Hunter started I never really noticed him but I looked back at the two previous days and started putting pieces together. On Day 0 we basically convinced me to vote for Nitasu, a freelancer which didnt really help town at all and then bandwagoned the next vote.

vote Hunter

nitasu broke the rules anyway and provided no benefit to the town, and I wasn't the first to become suspicious of Ltin.

Now that I think about it, same thing's happening today:

1. silliness happens, usually involving Jivvi
2. Notty fos's Jivvi (may as well be a running gag this game) and votes for someone else instead, unless $day=0
3. someone collects quotes from one user and ends up as bandwagon
4. others jump on it with pitchforks and torches
5. witch hunt, medieval style
6. as in witch hunts irl, evidence against isn't clear
7. depending on the results of the lynch, person who appeared to start bandwagon gets fos'd
8. wash, rinse, repeat

On another note, Road seems to be voting without posting evidence/reasoning. Feel free to disagree, and I'd like to hear your arguments against me. We wouldn't want to have yesterday repeat itself, would we?

Infact, we are probably watching numbers 3, 4 and 5 take place right now.

 

[Ansoro2112]

I'm also fairly sure that if Road turns out to be town, Ansoro will push on me.

What do you mean with "Ansoro will push on me" ?

 

[The Road to Ruin]

We don't always have mountains of evidence, and with last nights spy visit I'm hard pressed to think of any day in all of blocktopia mafia history which applies more than today. But here is what I thought when I read our last day

1. Hmm, everyone posting hypothetical about last night.
2. Ltins suggestion is kinda weird but oh well.
3. Really he's getting votes for a suggested hypothetical, no way this will get out of hand.
4. I get back this game tomorrow.
5. NO WAY! There will be hell to pay tomorrow alpha!
6. Oh he died, well who else pushed that ridiculous bandwagon.

Than a that after all that we drew a blank! Seriously no discussion after that fiasco?!? So yeah, I'll stick with my gut. If no one is gonna say anything about that vote than I will! I think hunter is partially responsible and I'm gonna vote him for it.

And to those that are voting for me, I realize I must be coming off pretty hot. But if you think I'm scum because I'm pushing a vote on hunter than remember I've played more than a couple games of mafia. I hosted a season with a very successful mafia so I know who a good mafia runs, if I were in a the mafia would I so easily throw my life away on one kill. ONE KILL I would know would turn up damning? Maybe later in the game but never this soon. It does not make sense to kamikaze this early in the game. So if you don't think I'm right fine, but ask yourself this "If I was mafia would this make sense to me"? I think you'll find this is a really bad tactic if you knew it would kill you, especially if you weren't sure you could get the kill.

 

[Ansoro2112]

if I were in a the mafia would I so easily throw my life away on one kill. ONE KILL I would know would turn up damning? Maybe later in the game but never this soon. It does not make sense to kamikaze this early in the game. So if you don't think I'm right fine, but ask yourself this "If I was mafia would this make sense to me"?

Exactly this. Amen Amen Amen.

If you remember me from Doomed Cruise I was as well quiet at the start but after I was sure Alpha might be mafia I just revealed myself and tried my hardest for him to be lynched. Now, same is happening right now. I am very positive Hunter is mafia and I'm sticking with my vote.

I really can't wait to see how this will turns out.

 

[Hunter]

...to those that are voting for me, I realize I must be coming off pretty hot. But if you think I'm scum because I'm pushing a vote on hunter than remember I've played more than a couple games of mafia. I hosted a season with a very successful mafia so I know who a good mafia runs, if I were in a the mafia would I so easily throw my life away on one kill. ONE KILL I would know would turn up damning? Maybe later in the game but never this soon. It does not make sense to kamikaze this early in the game. So if you don't think I'm right fine, but ask yourself this "If I was mafia would this make sense to me"? I think you'll find this is a really bad tactic if you knew it would kill you, especially if you weren't sure you could get the kill.

...If you remember me from Doomed Cruise I was as well quiet at the start but after I was sure Alpha might be mafia I just revealed myself and tried my hardest for him to be lynched. Now, same is happening right now...

These two posts are fine examples of

and we should want to avoid

over a few accusations.

Your original arguments against me were based on the premise that I caused the bandwagon on Ltin.

While I supported that lynch, I did so in the belief that Ltin was either mafia or third-party. Why not ask the voters whether my post was a major influence in their vote to lynch Ltin? I doubt it was due to my own. Each voter had (or should have had) their own reasons for voting him dead.

While I am accusing Road of acting scummy after he accused me of acting the same, it wasn't just an OMGUS. The timing is notable, but not a significant factor. This also falls under Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc.

My reasoning against Road:

• Quick to vote against the first citizen to come under the spotlight.
• Has next to no reasoning for voting me, besides the fact that I voted for Ltin.
• This post:

  I know it is tempting to want to call out the in actives but the more I think about it the more I feel confident about hunter being scum. I feel this is an opportunity to good to pass up.

He's basically calling for a quick lynch (again, without providing evidence).
This is why I choose to

vote The road to ruin

 

[Jivvi]

if I were in a the mafia would I so easily throw my life away on one kill. ONE KILL I would know would turn up damning? Maybe later in the game but never this soon. It does not make sense to kamikaze this early in the game. So if you don't think I'm right fine, but ask yourself this "If I was mafia would this make sense to me"?

Exactly this. Amen Amen Amen.

If you remember me from Doomed Cruise I was as well quiet at the start but after I was sure Alpha might be mafia I just revealed myself and tried my hardest for him to be lynched. Now, same is happening right now. I am very positive Hunter is mafia and I'm sticking with my vote.

I really can't wait to see how this will turns out.

That's stupid, you cant just lurk and the suddenly spring out and expect everyone to obey your bandwagon. That's incredibly scummy, not to mention ineffective

 

[Hunter]

Damn, messed up quoting. The second quote should be read as this:

...If you remember me from Doomed Cruise I was as well quiet at the start but after I was sure Alpha might be mafia I just revealed myself and tried my hardest for him to be lynched. Now, same is happening right now...

 

[Jivvi]

Also, Road and Ansoro are dictating that there's a lack of evidence, meaning they can't have strong arguments, but they're also pushing for a quick lynch. Not making much sense.

 

[Hunter]

I truly believe hunter is mafia. He pushed a vote on Ltin with very little evidence, and honestly I find it hard to believe so little people are talking about it!

The same could be said of you. Just replace the names with the current scenario.

I truly believe road is mafia. He pushed a vote on hunter with very little evidence, and honestly I find it hard to believe so little people are talking about it!

Interesting how the accuser's arguments can be effectively used against himself.

 

[The Road to Ruin]

Jivvi and Hunter27a1 Your still ignoring this-

And to those that are voting for me, I realize I must be coming off pretty hot. But if you think I'm scum because I'm pushing a vote on hunter than remember I've played more than a couple games of mafia. I hosted a season with a very successful mafia so I know who a good mafia runs, if I were in a the mafia would I so easily throw my life away on one kill. ONE KILL I would know would turn up damning? Maybe later in the game but never this soon. It does not make sense to kamikaze this early in the game. So if you don't think I'm right fine, but ask yourself this "If I was mafia would this make sense to me"? I think you'll find this is a really bad tactic if you knew it would kill you, especially if you weren't sure you could get the kill.

If you don't find my argument sufficient that's all well and good but explain how having a bad argument makes me scum? Sure I could be scum but as I pointed out before that would make my current tactics pretty stupid, and i'm only stupid around large swarms of bees and ancient statues... As Alpha102 would be more than capable of confirming.

 

[The Road to Ruin]

If you think I'm scum than tell me what I gain from accusing you, knowing you aren't scum.

 

[Alisha]

Well I was gonna avoid doing a last statement because of the spy blocking knowledge of my alignment, but I need to say this:

STOP CALLING ME, I AM DEAD, I DON'T HAVE ANY WAY I CAN CONTRIBUTE MORE TO THE GAME, I CAN'T EVEN SAY WHO I WANT TO WIN.

kthxbai I love everyone don't worry!

 

[Hunter]

Jivvi and Hunter27a1 Your still ignoring this-

And to those that are voting for me, I realize I must be coming off pretty hot. But if you think I'm scum because I'm pushing a vote on hunter than remember I've played more than a couple games of mafia. I hosted a season with a very successful mafia so I know who a good mafia runs, if I were in a the mafia would I so easily throw my life away on one kill. ONE KILL I would know would turn up damning? Maybe later in the game but never this soon. It does not make sense to kamikaze this early in the game. So if you don't think I'm right fine, but ask yourself this "If I was mafia would this make sense to me"? I think you'll find this is a really bad tactic if you knew it would kill you, especially if you weren't sure you could get the kill.

If you don't find my argument sufficient that's all well and good but explain how having a bad argument makes me scum? Sure I could be scum but as I pointed out before that would make my current tactics pretty stupid, and i'm only stupid around large swarms of bees and ancient statues... As Alpha102 would be more than capable of confirming.

...to those that are voting for me, I realize I must be coming off pretty hot. But if you think I'm scum because I'm pushing a vote on hunter than remember I've played more than a couple games of mafia. I hosted a season with a very successful mafia so I know who a good mafia runs, if I were in a the mafia would I so easily throw my life away on one kill. ONE KILL I would know would turn up damning? Maybe later in the game but never this soon. It does not make sense to kamikaze this early in the game. So if you don't think I'm right fine, but ask yourself this "If I was mafia would this make sense to me"? I think you'll find this is a really bad tactic if you knew it would kill you, especially if you weren't sure you could get the kill.

These two posts are This post is a fine examples of

and we should want to avoid

over a few accusations.
[/quote]
^I did respond to that.
By the way, Alpha is dead, remember? Why'd you tag him?

If you think I'm scum than tell me what I gain from accusing you, knowing you aren't scum.

Er, you gain another victim. Town would suspect you the next day, and it'll be

1. silliness happens, usually involving Jivvi
2. Notty fos's Jivvi (may as well be a running gag this game) and votes for someone else instead, unless $day=0
3. someone collects quotes from one user and ends up as bandwagon
4. others jump on it with pitchforks and torches
5. witch hunt, medieval style
6. as in witch hunts irl, evidence against isn't clear
7. depending on the results of the lynch, person who appeared to start bandwagon gets fos'd
8. wash, rinse, repeat

all over again.

 

[The Road to Ruin]

I truly believe hunter is mafia. He pushed a vote on Ltin with very little evidence, and honestly I find it hard to believe so little people are talking about it!

The same could be said of you. Just replace the names with the current scenario.

I truly believe road is mafia. He pushed a vote on hunter with very little evidence, and honestly I find it hard to believe so little people are talking about it!

Interesting how the accuser's arguments can be effectively used against himself.

So your saying my arguement today is equal to yours yesterday? Wouldn't that make it hypocritical to call me out for my arguments? As I've said before, this is actually the first real argument to pop up. I have my lead, I waited to see if anyone had a better one, they didn't, I acted. In a way this is like yesterday, only you voted because Ltin posted a hypothetical scenario. I calling you out because (A. Alpha my main suspect and who started the Ltin wagon is dead and without us knowing where he stood & B. nobody else is calling you out, or anybody really).

 

[Hunter]

I truly believe hunter is mafia. He pushed a vote on Ltin with very little evidence, and honestly I find it hard to believe so little people are talking about it!

The same could be said of you. Just replace the names with the current scenario.

I truly believe road is mafia. He pushed a vote on hunter with very little evidence, and honestly I find it hard to believe so little people are talking about it!

Interesting how the accuser's arguments can be effectively used against himself.

So your saying my arguement today is equal to yours yesterday? Wouldn't that make it hypocritical to call me out for my arguments? As I've said before, this is actually the first real argument to pop up. I have my lead, I waited to see if anyone had a better one, they didn't, I acted. In a way this is like yesterday, only you voted because Ltin posted a hypothetical scenario. I calling you out because (A. Alpha my main suspect and who started the Ltin wagon is dead and without us knowing where he stood & B. nobody else is calling you out, or anybody really).

I'm saying that your argument against me can be used against you. The "post" of mine in quotes was just a rewording of your own with the speaker tag changed to show an example of said usage against self.
You say you voted me because nobody else had called me out. This isn't true as Notty had been the first to vote me.
This means you could have been waiting for another to shine the spotlight on me before following along, but decided to "screw it" and posted your accusations anyway, hoping others would hop on the wagon.

 

[The Road to Ruin]

Jivvi and Hunter27a1 Your still ignoring this-

And to those that are voting for me, I realize I must be coming off pretty hot. But if you think I'm scum because I'm pushing a vote on hunter than remember I've played more than a couple games of mafia. I hosted a season with a very successful mafia so I know who a good mafia runs, if I were in a the mafia would I so easily throw my life away on one kill. ONE KILL I would know would turn up damning? Maybe later in the game but never this soon. It does not make sense to kamikaze this early in the game. So if you don't think I'm right fine, but ask yourself this "If I was mafia would this make sense to me"? I think you'll find this is a really bad tactic if you knew it would kill you, especially if you weren't sure you could get the kill.

If you don't find my argument sufficient that's all well and good but explain how having a bad argument makes me scum? Sure I could be scum but as I pointed out before that would make my current tactics pretty stupid, and i'm only stupid around large swarms of bees and ancient statues... As Alpha102 would be more than capable of confirming.

...to those that are voting for me, I realize I must be coming off pretty hot. But if you think I'm scum because I'm pushing a vote on hunter than remember I've played more than a couple games of mafia. I hosted a season with a very successful mafia so I know who a good mafia runs, if I were in a the mafia would I so easily throw my life away on one kill. ONE KILL I would know would turn up damning? Maybe later in the game but never this soon. It does not make sense to kamikaze this early in the game. So if you don't think I'm right fine, but ask yourself this "If I was mafia would this make sense to me"? I think you'll find this is a really bad tactic if you knew it would kill you, especially if you weren't sure you could get the kill.

These two posts are This post is a fine examples of

and we should want to avoid

over a few accusations.

^I did respond to that.
By the way, Alpha is dead, remember? Why'd you tag him?

If you think I'm scum than tell me what I gain from accusing you, knowing you aren't scum.

Er, you gain another victim. Town would suspect you the next day, and it'll be

1. silliness happens, usually involving Jivvi
2. Notty fos's Jivvi (may as well be a running gag this game) and votes for someone else instead, unless $day=0
3. someone collects quotes from one user and ends up as bandwagon
4. others jump on it with pitchforks and torches
5. witch hunt, medieval style
6. as in witch hunts irl, evidence against isn't clear
7. depending on the results of the lynch, person who appeared to start bandwagon gets fos'd
8. wash, rinse, repeat

all over again.[/quote]

My point, if I was mafia why would I burn myself to kill ONE person. The mafia are very limited in personal, so this would be like hitting on a 20 for them. Calling it circumstantial evidence is just ignoring (or burying) it while paying lip service. I welcome the chance to pick apart my argument, but denying this as a legitimate point is just scummy all over again. You acknowledge the following points

1. If I am scum than I must kill the townspeople
2. If I am scum I know you are one of the townspeople
3. If I lynch you I will probably be lynched tomorrow

Couple things about that. First Ltin is dead even with no little evidence for the lynch and you helped that bandwagon, the only thing separating what I hypothesis about you and what you hypothesis against me is that for me winning and losing are both suicide, while you have suffered no heat at all. Secondly there are some points you may not have assumed or are purposely ignoring.

1. The mafia has no way of regaining members
2. The mafia is drastically out numbered by the town
3. At a 1=1 exchange rate the mafia has literally no chance for victory.
4. If we factor in serial killer, mafia night action, and vigilante action it require three nightly town kills every night for victory to be possible.

Your calling me out because to you I have very little evidence but I'm not dealing in quotes, saying "Player X said Y analysis shows Z" I working on "Action A resulted in Outcome B so Scenario C is likely". You and me hunter, one of us is going to be lynched today. All I've tried to argue is that if your actions make the most sense as to whose mafia. Lets break it down with my ABC formula above, than maybe the rest of you can see where I'm coming from.

If we assume that hunter is mafia than I submit the following
Hunters action A (Helping to lynch Ltin) resulted in outcome B (No heat on hunter, 1 townie eliminated) therefore scenario C (Hunter has executed a successful mafia action and brought them closer to victory) seems likely? I think so

Inversely, assuming I am mafia than I submit the following
Roads action X (Pushing to lynch Hunter) resulted in outcome Y (Massive heat on road, Hunter possibly eliminated, Road certainly doomed) therefore scenario Z (Road has achieved at best Pyrrhic victory at worst cause significant harm to mafia, and the brought them further from victory) Seems likely? I would dream of it.

I'm sorry I haven't written this before, I couldn't find the words before. I don't work with quotes and exact words, its not my style and I'm not good with that stuff so I avoid it. I have put my reasoning here, judge me on it how you will.

 

[The Road to Ruin]

The same could be said of you. Just replace the names with the current scenario.
Interesting how the accuser's arguments can be effectively used against himself.

So your saying my argument today is equal to yours yesterday? Wouldn't that make it hypocritical to call me out for my arguments? As I've said before, this is actually the first real argument to pop up. I have my lead, I waited to see if anyone had a better one, they didn't, I acted. In a way this is like yesterday, only you voted because Ltin posted a hypothetical scenario. I calling you out because (A. Alpha my main suspect and who started the Ltin wagon is dead and without us knowing where he stood & B. nobody else is calling you out, or anybody really).

I'm saying that your argument against me can be used against you. The "post" of mine in quotes was just a rewording of your own with the speaker tag changed to show an example of said usage against self.
You say you voted me because nobody else had called me out. This isn't true as Notty had been the first to vote me.
This means you could have been waiting for another to shine the spotlight on me before following along, but decided to "screw it" and posted your accusations anyway, hoping others would hop on the wagon.

I know what you were going for, but I'm turing it around on you. When I we use argument X its bandwagon, unreasonable, and makes me scum, you already used it successfully yesterday and investigating that is scummy to you? convenient. I've posted my reasoning for voting for you above, pick it apart if you can but don't ignore it and don't pretend you are reason doesn't apply to us both in equal measure and in equal way.

 

[The Road to Ruin]

Last sentence should have been-

"I've posted my reasoning for voting for you above, pick it apart if you can but don't ignore it and don't pretend reason doesn't apply to us both in equal measure and in equal way."

I'm typing very fast but not accurately, trying to keep up with my own thoughts, lest I lose any.

 

[The Road to Ruin]

BTW me and hunter can do this til the end of time, but it would be nice to hear from everyone else. Those who have voted, I feel that we have come to a point in our arguement where it would proper order to announce if you change or kept your vote and why. And to everyone hasen't voted go ahead ask question, say you don't know, but for god sakes don't just sit there!

"In a crisis the best thing you can do is the right thing, the second best thing you can do is the wrong thing, the worst thing you can do is nothing at all"

-Theodore Roosevelt