Escape and Restart

[Fragile]

Let me start with saying: This has the intent of being a serious discussion. While this has been adressed before, I think it's time for an actual discussion that sparks at least something.

1. Our Minecraft server are dying, or already dead-
After the popularity of Kami's Realm died down, the other servers were pulled down with it, making it so 8 players is a busy server for Create and RoF. Kami's Realm, however, almost never has anyone on, for reasons that have already been discussed in Kami's subforum (Lack of updates, too many rules, etc.)

2. RoF-
Possibly the most disappointing of all, RoF's had the ground pulled from under itself. The server has always been social, so unfortunately, with 2-3 players, nobody wants to join. New players are finding only confusion as to the gameplay, and almost nobody is on to talk.

3. Create-
Currently the busiest server, Create has retained-if not slightly dropped- its player count. This seems to be because Create is the simplest and most familiar server- It's literally multiplayer Creative, which has payed off well. Create is the only server (Excluding TS/Forums) that is lagging only because the other servers are as well.

So, what can we do?
The sole reason I made this thread isn't just to inform- if it was, I would post a link to another discussion about this. No, I want to make some suggestions, and I'd like others who post to do the same.

1. SMP-
From what I know, there was a lot planned for Kami's Realm, however much of the development went unfinished due to a set deadline. I think SMP needs to be pulled out of the server list temporarily for development, so that what was intended to be done is done. If that fails, then I think it would be good to pull back and do another DoD-like SMP.

2. RoF-
RoF is going to be the easiest change on the list. Just 1-2 more people logging on to RoF, especially when nobody's there, would help dramatically. RoF, while a social game, can be played alone, even if you're just waiting for someone else to join. Because it's so social, talk! It's always fun when a conversation sparks on any server, especially on RoF.

3. PvP-
AoD 2.0 is still unfinished, but lets be honest- many of us have been craving PvP. Even a basic PvP event server would be perfect while (as forementioned) Kami's Realm is down.

Those are all my suggestions for now- please feel free to discuss and suggest as well.

 

[Doxxieh]

I give it an hour before people start shitposting. (Unless this counts)

 

[les_morts_vivants]

seeing as what happened to my thread i agree

 

[Jayfeather]

This list is a grave misunderstanding of the issue at hand, and I'd like to go over some of them to point out why.

With SMP, you had wanted either extra time to finish it (wherein interest wains further because it is not playable) or a DOD like SMP, which also failed. Both of these are sure to drop interest more than it already stands.

The problem with just adding more players to RoF is that it isn't a solution to the amount of players. You suggest that, to fix a server with less people, we should add more people. Where are the people coming from? There needs to be incentive and if the idea of RoF and the community does not entice the RoF community that I knew (know?) to be intensely loyal to that server then I don't think the server can stand as is and needs real changes.

With the last one - I don't think I've ever seen this community clamoring for PVP. I think Catco and probably dozens of others are actually against it because muh building so I'm not sure you actually have the majority opinion on that one




I'm not suggesting because I don't want to fix the servers but these are at least the problems I see with the approach I was given
_______________________________________________________________
chaoticbinary
Your thread was not shitposted on you just really couldn't comprehend what you were reading
EDIT: Your "funny" rating is immature, contest me now or hold your peace.

 

[paceboys]

http://escaperestart.com/forum/threads/so.18717/page-2#post-362121
http://escaperestart.com/forum/threads/the-state-of-kamis-realm.18566/

It would help me take you more seriously if you used an account that anyone knew, because I've never heard of you. dae katman?!!11?!one/!

A N Y W A Y

This server was made with an inadequate set of rules, followed by the breaking of those rules due to spineless staff members, most of which are gone anyway. There is little hope reviving this server; it has no sense of PvP, even the parts related to 'teamwork' and 'building' are horrible because we're forced into pre-made towns with pre-set leaders.

Too many people thought that even though it's a pvp server they should try to make politics and rules and all this trash that no one really expected, and turned out to be a mess because it was very uneducated politics and poorly made guidelines. Even past that, all of the people who are good at PvP joined wind, then wind stopped playing because, hey, guess what, no one in this community likes to pvp except everyone in air, and hey, guess what, pvping your clanmates is boring.

Yes, exactly. It's boring. There are better servers than this one. Period. No disputing that. That being said, it isn't the greatest reason in the world to give up on a server, so we can keep trying.

Personally, the reason I stopped was because if you were good at pvp and wanted to pvp, you were in air. If you were bad at pvp and wanted to pvp, you used popular hacks (and poor ones at that) and got away with it. I was informed of this 'big scary anticheat made by private developers which will remove the potential of cheaters' and saw kids using the #1 most popular cheat and had nothing done. It made PvP boring. No one that I encountered blatantly cheated to the point where you couldn't hit them, so if you were at an item disadvantage I'd still kill you. It was just so so so boring.

If anyone's going to make a new SMP server, it needs a SIMPLE ruleset, lots of user interaction (createable towns/guilds/clans) and a decent way to prevent cheaters. We also need a playerbase but for whatever reason whenever a server is released here tons of people come flocking back to it, just to leave again in two weeks, so if it's good enough those returning will stay and the playerbase issue won't matter too much.

Spoiler: Example: PVP

1) Don't cheat.
2) Be respectful of all in chat.
3) Don't dispute staff members.
4) Don't lag the server with grinders.
5) Don't lag the server with repeaters.
6) Grinders are legal, but a player must deliver the killing blow.

Spoiler: Example: SMP

1) Don't cheat.
2) Be respectful of all in chat.
3) Don't dispute staff members.
4) No griefing.
5) Don't lag the server with grinders.
6) Don't lag the server with repeaters.
7) Grinders are legal, but a player must deliver the killing blow.
8) Don't create more than 1 town. You must appoint a new leader or delete your old one before creating a new one.
9) You must be loyal to your clan until you leave. You cannot switch from clan 1 to join clan 2, then let all of clan 1 into clan 2's base to take their things, then switch back.

Examples are directly from servers that I have collaborated on with others/have played on for a good amount of time.

As for the other servers, I've never really liked rof, I've heard that people kind of sort of not really still use it, whatever. AoD is really gimmicky and not really pvp, which is why I think new players aren't at all attracted to it, but if there's a new one in the works that people want then I'm all for it.

 

[Vino]

Oh look this thread again

 

[Fragile]

The problem with just adding more players to RoF is that it isn't a solution to the amount of players. You suggest that, to fix a server with less people, we should add more people. Where are the people coming from? There needs to be incentive and if the idea of RoF and the community does not entice the RoF community that I knew (know?) to be intensely loyal to that server then I don't think the server can stand as is and needs real changes.

I actually agree with you here. RoF needs more events like Last Man Standing, and possibly a few updates, since as far as I remember, RoF hasn't had any major game changes since I joined almost 2 years ago. Part of RoF's downturn is also the removal of classic maps. I think RoF could at least use a change in their monetary system, because at some point its too much time spent for too little reward.

If anyone's going to make a new SMP server, it needs a SIMPLE ruleset, lots of user interaction (createable towns/guilds/clans) and a decent way to prevent cheaters. We also need a playerbase but for whatever reason whenever a server is released here tons of people come flocking back to it, just to leave again in two weeks, so if it's good enough those returning will stay and the playerbase issue won't matter too much.

Agreed. Right now, it's even the little things like the odd rules (Chests must be reachable) and lack of info (Apparently there are quests?)

Anyhow, I'm sure an SMP/ex-SMP staff member will come along and explain (more or less) what I meant when I said more time was needed.

 

[Robo]

Spoiler: Example: PVP

1) Don't cheat.
2) Be respectful of all in chat.
3) Don't dispute staff members.
4) Don't lag the server with grinders.
5) Don't lag the server with repeaters.
6) Grinders are legal, but a player must deliver the killing blow.

Spoiler: Example: SMP

1) Don't cheat.
2) Be respectful of all in chat.
3) Don't dispute staff members.
4) No griefing.
5) Don't lag the server with grinders.
6) Don't lag the server with repeaters.
7) Grinders are legal, but a player must deliver the killing blow.
8) Don't create more than 1 town. You must appoint a new leader or delete your old one before creating a new one.
9) You must be loyal to your clan until you leave. You cannot switch from clan 1 to join clan 2, then let all of clan 1 into clan 2's base to take their things, then switch back.

Examples are directly from servers that I have collaborated on with others/have played on for a good amount of time.

I do think that this would be a good idea-- taking reference from other popular servers to see how they do things. Then when we make our rules, we'll have a sense of stability with them. We shouldn't just make our own rules and settle with those. When I'm, building, I look at reference images to see how other people, and things are done. When you make a staff related decision, you can't always trust yourself on it, so you go to others for advice.

I think if we do redo our servers, we should definitely take note of this, so we can have an idea of what would be good for the servers, and the players.

 

[ShadeSlayer98]

On the bright side TeamSpeak is booming with people.

 

[Lee_scar]

Plugins do not work, server is built around said plugins, which means no content, no content means no ability to produce interesting server.
No dedicated developer means at the mercy of the plugin dev, plugin dev has trouble fixing a cornerstone bug that could fuck an entire server, no plugin.
See how this works?
Meanwhile I've been building a server privately with custom plugins from people I can actually contact and know how to fix, all I can say about that.

I have no clue why people keep wanting to "save kamis" Because there isn't any way too actually save it at this point, I'm not cleared to do any serious work with it and in turn I cannot clear or assign any work to my remaining team.

 

[Vatumok]

Maybe it's time to actually start the overhaul.

Drop all the servers and start over because this is not working.
Sad reality, but that's the truth.

 

[Psycho]

From what I understand, Kami doesn't have any Server Admins anymore since JtTorso an Oak have resigned.

EDIT: Sorry, I believe I misread his post, but really, I just didn't see any activity coming from the Kami Admins for quite awhile.

 

[Fragile]

From what I understand, Kami doesn't have any Server Admins anymore since JtTorso an Oak have resigned.

Uh, what?! Didn't know JT resigned, too. Sounds like someone needs to be appointed, and fast.

 

[Marlem]

Uh, what?! Didn't know JT resigned, too. Sounds like someone needs to be appointed, and fast.

*pops head out from rabbit hole*

 

[Friendy]

Why is there so much negativity in this community now? It's as if since the community went down hill so did everyone's attitude to the communities player-base. I do not understand why the community insisted in going the whole "LET'S CREATE SOMETHING NEW AND INTERESTING AND JUST AS CONFUSING AS THE LAST SMP TO GET OVER-HYPED THEN SHIT ON WHEN NOBODY PLAYS AFTER 2 MONTHS" every time the smp died, why not just advertise the community more, put more ads out, invest a little.

At the end of the day, the community died out last year like quite a few, including myself, said it would; for starters rebranding the community was a huge mistake because the rebranding not only closed down popular servers, it also brought out new ones that were no-where near as good as the old servers and the new name.. eh I don't think it is that catchy whatsoever, bare in mind I'm not trying to bash the community here I'm just giving my two cents.

The community should realistically stop focusing on trying to bring in people from different games and focus on ONE game, whether that is minecraft or not, it is quite simple really; people join a community, if it is dead (i.e rarely anyone on) they won't stay, but if it is lively and has an active userbase of atleast 10 people at all hours then people will stay, which attracts more and more and more and more and I could go on forever, I have been a part of many communities whether they were based on specific games, multiple games, games they'd created or communities like se7ensins that blew up into a monumental social feast of modders, gamers, anyone really.

My point being is that the community needs to focus on.. let's say minecraft for instance, with 1-2 servers, build up their popularity then bring out another, build it up even more, then either another or THEN expand to a different game, why expand to other games when nobody plays anymore because all you're doing is splitting the players up which is driving the popularity down, keep 1-2 servers, 20 players on daily or atleast 5 on at all times, then make another and get better results then expand because then you have 100+ players who like the servers and the community and could try out the new games, like it and tell their friends. People seem to forget that half the players who filled up the 60+ weekly teamspeak meetings are 3-5 years older now so they have moved on. Don't try and bring them back, just focus on the future or this community will die out within a year.

As for the staff, not quite sure what is going on but I've seen a lot of staff being incredibly hostile to users, whether they've caused shit or not the whole morale of the community was to be professional, and if staff are going to swear at their will because they have a rank on a bloody website then they shouldn't be staff, either that or they need to step-down and sort their attitudes out.

 

[Fragile]

As for the staff, not quite sure what is going on but I've seen a lot of staff being incredibly hostile to users, whether they've caused shit or not the whole morale of the community was to be professional, and if staff are going to swear at their will because they have a rank on a bloody website then they shouldn't be staff, either that or they need to step-down and sort their attitudes out.

This is something I don't necessarily like to be able to agree with. Yes, staff quality has slipped. I don't care so much about the language since it's legal, but there's other stuff. Power abuse, hosility, immaturity. I think the staff members really need to be examined (Especially for Directors and Admins).

I do agree too that dumbing down the community could be a great option, right now it could be as easy as shutting Kami's Realm, and then building up Create and RoF. Once they're back up to 10-20 players, introducing an SMP or PvP server.

I also know that this is fairly negative, but it's also a serious issue, and to ensure the survival of ER, needs to be seriously adressed

 

[Friendy]

This is something I don't necessarily like to be able to agree with. Yes, staff quality has slipped. I don't care so much about the language since it's legal, but there's other stuff. Power abuse, hosility, immaturity. I think the staff members really need to be examined (Especially for Directors and Admins).

I do agree too that dumbing down the community could be a great option, right now it could be as easy as shutting Kami's Realm, and then building up Create and RoF. Once they're back up to 10-20 players, introducing an SMP or PvP server.

I also know that this is fairly negative, but it's also a serious issue, and to ensure the survival of ER, needs to be seriously adressed

Exactly this, there always has been and always will be one or two staff members who will abuse their powers or just be nasty to users and get away with it thanks to their admirable friendship with a Director or Controller, this needs to stop; just because you are friends doesn't mean they should get away with it, if they get mad because you're enforcing the rules that you should stand by then they aren't a good friend and you made the right decision.

As for dumbing down the community, I personally feel like it is the way to go, I've been lurking in the shadows since I left almost two years ago now and I've watched the community go down on a very slippery slope and that slope needs to be salty with some chain tires, I'm great with words I know /sarcasm

I'd like to bring up another point, I personally do not agree with people who were demoted for serious rank abuse, abuse of players etc to be put back into a similar or higher rank, that's like someone who embezzles money from their own company, being thrown out only to be trusted with it again a few months down the line, rather silly really.

 

[Fragile]

I'd like to bring up another point, I personally do not agree with people who were demoted for serious rank abuse, abuse of players etc to be put back into a similar or higher rank, that's like someone who embezzles money from their own company, being thrown out only to be trusted with it again a few months down the line, rather silly really.

I agree. I don't know if the Admins have this, but if they don't, they need to start filing every staff member's incidents, rule breaks, demotions, etc. during when they were staffing. This could be reviewed if someone reapplied for staff, applied on another server, etc. That way, say, if deadl0k managed to re-join and applied for staff, they'd see, "Hey, this guy was demoted for (whatever reason it was), I don't know if he should be trusted."

That's just one idea on the subject, but I really do think staff ranks need to be more selective.

 

[Samlen]

Well, I suppose I don't really post much on the forums, really just looking around, seeing what interesting things are happening, yet here's a thread that has convinced me to put in my input, little and rambling as it may be. As constantly stated, the community is deteriorating, deteriorating for reasons that I have seen before, if on a bit larger scale. From what I've seen before and what I see now, I feel like two of the major reasons for this decline are 1. a lack of advertising and 2. more importantly, a lack of effort, or rather, a lack of effort in the correct direction.

I really felt that changing the server and trying to expand into a gaming community instead of a Minecraft community was a nice idea in thought, but as Angel said, not the right direction. We simply were not large enough to do something so drastic and keep a viable playerbase for long, or at least we didn't take the right steps after such a large change.

Referring to Angel again, we really should focus down our efforts into fewer games and/or servers. We have too many servers and games that we are trying to put effort into, we're spreading ourselves too thin. By narrowing down, by concentrating our effort, we can create one or two servers worth playing on, servers that will grow. And once those grow large enough, when we get more available effort and people, then we can start spreading our efforts.

In relation to concentrating and changing our efforts, I feel like hasn't been much noticeable effort around for awhile... or rather, more noticeable general effort. Like the build competition, that was one of the few noticeable bits of effort I've seen recently to stimulate the community. This, I think is, again, because we have too much to try and put effort into, too much to try and focus on. Also, we really haven't done a lot in relation to advertising ourselves. At least, I haven't noticed it much, which the point advertising really is to be noticed, isn't it? Though the other explanation is that new people see our advertising, wander in, and then wander out since it feels like a dead community.

Maybe my thoughts are just ramblings, maybe they make good sense, I just think that the main problem is really putting enough effort in the correct direction and with the right focus.

 

[JohnOgozalek]

You can recreate yourself in a game. With any game, but, it's essentially what Minecraft is, is it not? Recreation. It's a game of discovery and freedom, which is why it's been so appealing to kids across this planet. It's what the game is. With this community the environment, whether in-game or on the forums, has steadily been pushed towards one of professionalism. And this is taking away from the discovery and freedom of the game.

Unfortunately, I think something obvious is being missed here: kids can look forward to years of painstaking professionalism, jobs, work, interviews... why would they want it in a game? Who buys this game, mostly kids. When I first joined, I was fascinated and greatly entertained by the chaotic nature of this community. The continued push for more professionalism - and more rules - although noble in a way, is not working. The chaotic nature of the old days was fun.

This community has been interesting to watch, it's evolution. These days, staff ranks are more streamlined, forums easier to navigate, and everything is more organized. But what's happened, it seems like everything is falling apart at the seams. And that really hurts me, surprisingly so. I always imagined stopping back here, years in the future, and seeing everything prosper.

Focus on a very few servers, one game, and go forward.

and stop talking like I have in the last few paragraphs, fuck it! have fun with it, we're all pretty young, have fun and soon others will come in and have fun as well. Nillbugwtw get drunk as hell and host a meeting and answer questions!! Enjoy yourselves, don't be mean or abusive - but just get out there and do something! The community I began in was nuts, bring it back down to that level. It wasn't a mean-spirited community no, quite the opposite. A united one. Bring it back down to that chaos. Have fun!!!

And also, Lee_scar seems like he's active and still caring towards this place, a guy with ideas - why's he just a controller? Accept what's happening and get those that are willing to do shit at the top, even if his server is stagnant. I hope he's deeply involved in the community outlook as a whole and if not get him involved - people with ideas and commitment, those willing to present ideas (as he seems to be), are a commodity here now, it looks like.

Cheers guys!! Have fun, get this place kicking

 

[Jayfeather]

A point on the staff since I have spoken out before.

We DO have a system in place for staff abuse. I think the general culture and attitude can get out of hand, but if you see such a big problem with staff abuse you can go to other staff of the same or higher rank. If we're all corrupt it's already too late

 

[Fragile]

and stop talking like I have in the last few paragraphs, fuck it! have fun with it, we're all pretty young, have fun and soon others will come in and have fun as well. Nillbugwtw get drunk as hell and host a meeting and answer questions!! Enjoy yourselves, don't be mean or abusive - but just get out there and do something! The community I began in was nuts, bring it back down to that level. It wasn't a mean-spirited community no, quite the opposite. A united one. Bring it back down to that chaos. Have fun!!!

Yes! This man gets it!

 

[parquette]

I agree with the fact that a lot of the manners of players online has degraded a bit. The cussing is a big factor, but there is also the thing about attitude. I think that people need to be careful about what they are saying online because new players can become really offended by some of the comments. It isn't friendly to be using every cuss word under the sun in every other chat message. Where is the friendliness in "what the actual *beep*" and "*beep* me and my *beeping* chat logs!" That doesn't sound professional or friendly to me, or to a lot of people for that matter. That's just letting your anger out at players online. I wouldn't want to play with people like that. This is one of the things that I think has changed this community. Just sayin'....

 

[Fragile]

I agree with the fact that a lot of the manners of players online has degraded a bit. The cussing is a big factor, but there is also the thing about attitude. I think that people need to be careful about what they are saying online because new players can become really offended by some of the comments. It isn't friendly to be using every cuss word under the sun in every other chat message. Where is the friendliness in "what the actual *beep*" and "*beep* me and my *beeping* chat logs!" That doesn't sound professional or friendly to me, or to a lot of people for that matter. That's just letting your anger out at players online. I wouldn't want to play with people like that. This is one of the things that I think has changed this community. Just sayin'....

I do suppose staff members swearing is rather unprofessional. Its one thing if a player swears, but when staff are making players uncomfortable, that's not good

 

[paceboys]

Spoiler: Rules

1) Don't cheat.
2) Be respectful of all in chat.
3) Don't dispute staff members.
4) No griefing.
5) Don't lag the server with grinders.
6) Don't lag the server with repeaters.
7) Grinders are legal, but a player must deliver the killing blow.
8) Don't create more than 1 town. You must appoint a new leader or delete your old one before creating a new one.
9) You must be loyal to your clan until you leave. You cannot switch from clan 1 to join clan 2, then let all of clan 1 into clan 2's base to take their things, then switch back.
10) You may not have more than 15 animals per farm, and farms must be 100+ blocks away from each other (Not an EXACT number but they can't be right next to each other)

Spoiler: Chest Rules

1) All chests must be openable at all times.
2) All chests must be accessible without griefing.
3) All chests must be accessible without taking damage.
4) All paths to chests, keys for locks, levers for doors, etc. must be made within 50 blocks of the vault/chest itself, and cannot exceed 75 blocks from the start to the chest.
5) If you find a chest with a block over it, you are allowed to break only the block over it. (Maybe not on this one, we didn't put it into our server we just advise people to call staff)

Spoiler: Plugins

1) Some type of anticheat
2) Some type of town creation system, preferably one that allows you to see a list of players in your town, as well as no FF
3) A way to have a 500 block radius of PvE be set down around the point of creation of any town
4) A plugin to make diamond spawns 1/5 of normal frequency and all other ores 1/2 or normal frequency.

After this, any future plugins for weekend/weekly events could be put in, or anything that would help make the server more fun.

Spoiler: Premade Structures

1) Spawn town

After this, any future event arenas or structures could be brought in, or any future dungeons etc.

This is from the draft rule list I made for the server I worked on, I want to get some responses. The idea is that you can have the freedom to make your own clans but not be able to camp in your clan town forever. You can try to stay in your safe zone and mine, but you'll have a hard time getting everything you need. You can try to sustain yourself with farms, but you can't have that many in your safe zone and will be forced to expand into the PvP zone. Our goal was to make a balance between the ability to create things with your friends, the ability to mine and build wealth to just have fun, and the ability to PvP and steal from people.

Our server has weekend events from PvP tournaments to Hunger Games or survival maps, mazes, parkour challenges, etc. all with the incentive of getting items to use in the main server, as well as 100 additional blocks of PvE zone to towns for each victory. This allows people to want to participate in the events and gain things, and it also gets peaceful players to participate in PvP tournaments in order to win more PvE zone.

Just looking for some opinions, I'm not saying this is the only good idea ever and that it's the best, but I like this server a lot. I don't play on it because I'm running out of time to play 300 different games, but it's my go-to server if I want to do anything of the sort.

EDIT: As for the recent issue with staff members and how professional/unprofessional they are, I don't think the main issue is how strict the staff is, because the one server where the staff was very easygoing (Kami's Realm) players were changed from clan to clan if they complained enough, and it was stated that you cannot leave once you join. It just made a huge mess. Enforcing rules and being strict is good, not all the time, but on servers it's mostly good.