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jub-juberd

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- Admin demoted people because he didn't want them on his staff team.
The caveat is, on most civilised forums, it's due to the staffmember being unable to fully fulfill an aspect of their job, not for complaining about posts being deleted.
- The post deleted was deleted within reason
Again, "within reasons" is spurious simply due to the fact that the 'reason' is entirely baseless.

I originally jumped in guns blazing looking for staff abuse to go rant at someone about but, I'm really not seeing anything other than nitpicking.
Here you go! http://escaperestart.com/forum/threads/lets-talk.19360/

If people are annoyed by the above, maybe you joined the wrong community?
Oh, you've seen it before.
 

Aqua

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Right, I'm going to draw this to a close because there's not a huge amount to contribute anymore, we seem to have reached as much of an understanding as we are, I've jumped in looking for staff abuse and come out pretty much seeing a few people who want to rock the boat.

- Posts were deleted within reason
- Users were informed
- All of the above is within moderation power.
- The same people complaining of staff abuse are liking posts harassing people. .

If you have some issue with the above points, you're more than welcome to add me on steam - people in the past know I'm happy to remove/alter my posts if we're reach some sort of understanding. I'm inclined to think that we won't.
you do realise that this is just the tip of the iceberg?

this runs way deeper than just that 1 thread with that 1 post deletion my friend. I was just in a particular "meme-y" mood, and decided to find out who it was who was deleting my posts.
 

Ogarci

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I don't post in these sorts of things usually.

I talked to both sides a little bit and here's my understanding of it:

Users make post in Mulbery's thread that don't at all contribute to the topic, calling for the removal of minecraft servers and replacing them with gmod servers.

Users' posts get removed by Vatumok for being off topic.

Users are now upset that they can't make jokes and off topic suggestions in the middle of the thread? (tone and wording is bad, sorry)

I'd be all for reading a serious suggestion to remove minecraft servers and adding gmod and deathrun. I don't think that it belongs in the middle of the thread it was posted in. Mulbery made a attempt to ask for feedback on a server that could use improvement, and was met with passive hostility and suggestions to replace the server. Vatu removed the posts to try and gain respect for Mulbery who is trying (her?) best to improve the server that she is staff on. There is a time and place to post things, there is a specific place where everything goes on this forum and if you post it in the wrong place, it's going to get removed.

As for Ender's "shadow demotion" has anyone bothered to ask Psy what's going on? A user posted this in #moderator last night on Discord, maybe this is relevant?

[11:34 AM] User: afaik Psycho was redoing Mafia permissions

I have never seen anyone shadow demoted since I've been in this community, I would be extremely surprised if this actually happened and isnt instead a complete breakdown of communication.
 
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Hunter

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As for Ender's "shadow demotion" has anyone bothered to ask Psy what's going on? A user posted this in #moderator last night on Discord, maybe this is relevant?

[11:34 AM] User: afaik Psycho was redoing Mafia permissions

I have never seen anyone shadow demoted since I've been in this community, I would be extremely surprised if this actually happened and isnt instead a complete breakdown of communication.
http://escaperestart.com/forum/profile-posts/132169/

Enderfive said he discussed it in pm with psy afterwards, iirc

afaik he no longer has access to staff discord/forums nor rp subforum permissions, though he has mafia access

around the same time, i discovered my mafia perms were revoked without so much as an alert, and pm'd psy on discord about it as i had just heard about the ender thing and thought it might be related
 
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Ogarci

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Forgot to post the second line about the discord post in #moderator

[11:34 AM] User: afaik Psycho was redoing Mafia permissions
[11:34 AM] User: so that mafia hosts dont get forum mod rank

I have absolutely no idea what rank Enderfive is SUPPOSED to be, but it still shows him as "Mafia Host" on his profile. Psycho and Enderfive please chime in here or something.
 

Hunter

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Forgot to post the second line about the discord post in #moderator

[11:34 AM] User: afaik Psycho was redoing Mafia permissions
[11:34 AM] User: so that mafia hosts dont get forum mod rank

I have absolutely no idea what rank Enderfive is SUPPOSED to be, but it still shows him as "Mafia Host" on his profile. Psycho and Enderfive please chime in here or something.
still doesn't explain why my maf perms were revoked without prior warning despite not even having access to the forum mod rank benefits, nor the title. hell, nill helped me fix some perm stuff not that long ago so i could edit the queue properly
http://escaperestart.com/forum/threads/enderfives-application.18177/
he was roleplay moderator before that as well, so the maf thing was, at best, a cover

also, coming to mind since my maf perms vanished
http://escaperestart.com/forum/threads/hunters-application.19406/
considering the seemingly large amount of support for my staff app, i'm thinking psy (and maybe bryan) may have denied it with bias cause i'm part of said "cancer skype group"
 

superstein

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Aqua Enderfive Hunter @whoeverelsespostsweredeletedI'mnottoouptodate

Assuming that because you are still around, you care about this place. I'm glad, because I think that in suggesting your ideas you have the best intentions for the community in mind.

That being said, the admins will not take your opinion into consideration if you cannot maturely discuss, defend and articulate your ideas. They are busy implementing their own ideas and moving in their direction. Another question: who is actually going to do the work? People don't like being told what to do, but people love having others do it for them. Most post deletions are shitty. I agree. But creating drama about it makes the admins reluctant to listen to you. Be someone worth listening to.
 

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- Admin demoted people because he didn't want them on his staff team.
I'm not technically a part of this community anymore, but I want to talk about this one point anyhow.

I'm not sure what this is supposed to be suggesting (and admittedly I don't hate myself enough to read the entirety of this drama thread), but here's what I'm getting from that point:
  • Admins apparently can abuse their powers by looking at people who are perfectly qualified to be staff and say "Well, I don't like them. They won't be staff anymore."
  • Admins can again abuse their powers by demoting people without clear or good reason.
  • Admins can abuse their power by keeping out people who they don't totally agree with. I'll be blunt: Hunter should've been added as a Forum Mod months ago. Oh, you don't like every word he posts? Denied. Hunter, Ender, and others were/would have been (Still not 100% sure of what's happening, but I picked up bits and pieces) great Forum Mods.
If my understanding is correct of the situation, I'm more than glad that I resigned from the staff team and left. If not, someone correct me and clarify.
 

Psycho

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Cool. Looks like I'll have to clarify a few things and I'll try to do it in the best way possible without trying to hurt anyone's feelings.

Enderfive
This was my reply to you when you questioned your demotion:

Your demotion from Forum Moderator was my call which was due to the recent events in that Solitude thread along with various instances where you've expressed your dissent toward the Community that you were staffing for. I can bring up screenshots if your memory eludes you.
Just to get this out of the way, yeah we are a gaming community and yeah we should have fun, but first and foremost you were set as a Staff member in EscapeRestart where you should at least have an ounce of respect for it no matter what. What I have noticed lately is that you come up with sarcastic remarks regarding the Community itself which eventually comes off as passive-aggressive and makes me believe that you don't care for what staff are doing in EscapeRestart to help improve it. You still have your Mafia Host perms, which I'm glad that you still help and create new events for, but your recent attitude didn't justify your Forum Staff rank anymore.

Aqua
You probably know where this is going already, but I'd like to dive in and give my own input as to what has been brought up to me earlier. Vatumok essentially tasked himself to moderate that Solitude thread where some things got out of hand and pretty much didn't need to be mentioned. I understand that you may disagree with what he did, but that doesn't give you the authority to outright harass (for lack of a better word) him especially in that Discord chat which I was unaware of what was happening until Vatumok told me. I basically reread where things started and even took screenshots if you want me to post them. You'll even see the miscommunication in that recent thread that I made in the staff forum and his frustration which was definitely warranted. Anyway, Aqua, you are a staff member for EscapeRestart and it should be a given that there should be a certain amount of respect between staff members as we're all working together to improve this community.

Jivvi
I'm surprised that he hasn't replied here, but switching his Forum Mod perms to Mafia Host was based on multiple things, including my supreme lack of judgement on giving him Forum Mod in the first place. This here is what prompted me to remove him from staff:
The title that he has "put a vatusock in it" was recently changed at the time and I felt that it wasn't even warranted. He had a different title earlier and I saw his new one after I was talking to Vatumok about what had happened between him and Aqua. Jivvi is still a Mafia Host.

Hunter
Somehow Hunter got into the mix when I was editing Jivvi's forum node perms as I noticed that we had a few users within the forum perms for Mafia and tested to see what would happen if I removed him as he had editing perms. I had to leave at the time and left it where it was until I was able to edit his perms back to where it made sense to give him the Mafia Host banner.

Jub?
Why are you even here?

Malcovent
I've read your replies and I really appreciate the rational responses that you have given to these guys. Please come back as CA. I'm getting tired of this.

Hopefully this clarifies a few things, but I'm sure that more shit will come up since some of you guys seem persistent as fuck.
 

Enderfive

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welp

every achievable goal this thread had has been achieved, hunter got his perms back and i (finally) got a clear idea of what the current staff team feels is okay to do on the forums and what isn't for both the staff and the users, regardless of it (not) being clear in the rules

Jivvi might want to say something, but i personally have nothing more to add; if the viewpoint of the staff is that it's fine to moderate posts just for being off-topic or jokey in nature, or for being another take on the subject from an angle the OP might have not expected, then my whole rant is irrelevant anyway
 

Aqua

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Aqua
You probably know where this is going already, but I'd like to dive in and give my own input as to what has been brought up to me earlier. Vatumok essentially tasked himself to moderate that Solitude thread where some things got out of hand and pretty much didn't need to be mentioned. I understand that you may disagree with what he did, but that doesn't give you the authority to outright harass (for lack of a better word) him especially in that Discord chat which I was unaware of what was happening until Vatumok told me. I basically reread where things started and even took screenshots if you want me to post them. You'll even see the miscommunication in that recent thread that I made in the staff forum and his frustration which was definitely warranted. Anyway, Aqua, you are a staff member for EscapeRestart and it should be a given that there should be a certain amount of respect between staff members as we're all working together to improve this community.
Thank you for the reasonable reply, and sorry for being persistent as fuck; but can we please move away from vatu, yes this whole thing may have started with him, but that was just the trigger. The main issue, for me, is that we haven't moved forward since the last time this happened, I tried to talk it out civilly in the threads "let's talk" and "let's talk seriously", and believed as a community we moved forward together...

But then a few months later this happened. We've gone full circle showing that we're back in the same shitty spot as we were before. The problem that I see it as Malcovent pointed out prior in this thread, when he rudely said "find another community" or some shit; is that the community is still clearly divided especially between the admins and two "major" groups on escr. From what I've read over the past few days from the leading members of staff in this community makes me think that they believe both the "league community" and the "meme skype group" are both undesirable cysts who should be "cut off" from the community and that, my friends is wrong. Whether nice friendly children or not we are still members of this community.

So instead off fighting with us constantly how about doing what I've been suggesting for a long amount of time and make this community more hospitable for a more adult/teenager audience, because surprisingly we are no longer a children's mc server, because most the members have now grown up and left, and I don't see any new members joining to play minecraft (tho this point is a separate point I want to get worked out for the future).

I apologies for being "rude" to vatu especially in my post in the moderator forums. But this clearly isn't a one way thing, so I don't want to be made out like some bully or whatever. I've told him plain and clearly if he wants more people to like him he should try and use his power to do what people want rather than accusing everyone of being an asshole who disagrees with him.

And again, I do want to leave the logs here because I really think those who can't view them should:

 

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You talk about more adult friendly community, however, your kind of behaviour is exactly the opposite of mature:
Harassing other people, firestarting in threads for "funny drama", throwing around memes in inappropriate situations, passive-aggresive posts.
Furthermore, if many staff seem to take action against what you do perhaps it's time to look at your own behaviour. Throwing a tantrum and starting a witchhunt in this thread based on no evidence at all is incredibly immature behaviour.

You have it the wrong way around, you assume and look for things blame me on. I literally cleaned up 1 thread in the last month which by other has been called justified; people were getting upset and discussion was hindered because of posts made by endersteve and Aqua. Clearly you can all someone a biased moderator on 1 time, even if the post wasn't justified for deletion it's still not a worthy case against me.
What I think rather is the case, that you are biased against me. I've been harassed by goons from that skype group before over things I have said in staff forums. I can play the quote game too, and these seem way more biased reactions around the situation of 1 cleaned up thread:

Vatu, I thought I made this clear last night. You are an asshole. And this isn't coming just from me, I know a good 20-30 people who are still active in this community (most whoa ren't even in the lol or skype groups) that think that also. So instead of convincing yourself that we're all dicks trying to ruin the communtiy why don't you just stop and look at yourself. Maybe people would actually like you if you used your power for them, rather than against them.
From Aqua in staff forums

[19:20:07] Adam / Aqua: so tempted to type
[19:20:09] Adam / Aqua: @vatu hi
[19:20:09] Oskar Samuel | Ender: we were discussing eurovision at some point
[19:20:15] Oskar Samuel | Ender: do it Hunter
[19:20:16] Hunter: do it
From -that- skype call, posted in discord

For a long time we've been respectful of your opinions but sadly you guys have never shown the same respect to us. If you want to post memes and jokes that's all fine. But everytime something community/minecraft something negative or stuff to intentionally start drama is posted. Every forum I've ever been to has stuff rules about constructive critism. Sometimes even destructive critism. All you guys do is post memes and UNconstructive critism which pisses people off and are allowed to be removed if it's best for the discussion. I'll make a post regarding constructive and unconstructive critism sometime in the upcoming days.

Moderators are there for a reason, and using technicalities about the rules is dumb. We're chosen for this rank to have the judgment over whether posts deserve to be deleted/warned or not. Sure, if moderators go overboard by all means collect proof and send it to head staff, or if it's really the highest staff then post it on the forums, but based on 1 case you can't possibly say that just because you dislike me. Sure everyone has an opinion but just because there are 2 sides doesn't mean both are equally right, that's why there are staff members to decide what is acceptable.

I've been here for over 5 and a half year and have staffed in every version (TheOne, BT, ER) and I'm still trying my ass off to make things works, and things have been going way better the last half year. You may pretend to still care about the community but it seems you are here just to have fun with a group of people. If you really did care you would look up with constructive critism and use it rather than to meme/drama everything to death. Perhaps it's better to cut 30% of the toxic people out before we can really better again, even if it costs some forum activity now.

I'm not gonna waste much more time here as many of you are simply impossible to reason with, if you have legit questions feel free to ask. I think all members involved in this tantrum should not hold a staff position anymore and if they are not willing to behave like decent people on the forums, they should be banned after a while.
 
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JtTorso

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real talk tho i wouldnt call this progress it's just slowing as everyone gets sick of repeating themselves

i could waste my time like ender and pick apart vatu's last post but why bother when it won't be received rationally & might even just be deleted for no reason no matter how respectful it is.​
And now you're just proving their point.
 

snowma

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real talk tho i wouldnt call this progress it's just slowing as everyone gets sick of repeating themselves

i could waste my time like ender and pick apart vatu's last post but why bother when it won't be received rationally & might even just be deleted for no reason no matter how respectful it is.​
Idk Jivvi, I'm sure you'd gain more respect if you did.
 

Jivvi

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im tired as fuck & internet posting was a bad idea soz
this is probably just as bad but im disclaiming rn that im trying to not offend you rn so thats chill right
i was gonna make a structured post but i cant formulate a proper response atm it ends up like the other shit i posted but can i just say rn why would there be a tos if staff can ignore it and act entirely of their own personal discretion. how then do people know what to not do in order to remain in the confines of the forums rules. also nobodys said it recently so pls it bears repeating that youre taking a minecraft community way too seriously.
 

Aqua

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Throwing a tantrum
  1. Arjen "Vatu" - Yesterday at 6:31 PM
    Ashamed of the admins for not daring to speak up
  2. Arjen "Vatu" - Yesterday at 6:38 PM
    why is everyone acting here like I have no idea how to moderate
  3. Arjen "Vatu" - Yesterday at 6:47 PM
    fuck off
  4. Arjen "Vatu" - Yesterday at 7:10 PM
    you forgot, Aqua:"Im a salty brat"
#Irony

Anyway I'm not sure if I should or not, but I might as well announce that tnmjimbob had the idea that we write a new set of mod rules etc. with all mods and admins being able to add to an online word document, but again since this is a thing that I believe the community should have a voice in, as this we are there to make life better for them, I suggest we allow them to have either a thread or someway to contribute to the rules, or let them edit the worddoc personally.
 

Friendy

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  1. Arjen "Vatu" - Yesterday at 6:31 PM
    Ashamed of the admins for not daring to speak up
  2. Arjen "Vatu" - Yesterday at 6:38 PM
    why is everyone acting here like I have no idea how to moderate
  3. Arjen "Vatu" - Yesterday at 6:47 PM
    fuck off
  4. Arjen "Vatu" - Yesterday at 7:10 PM
    you forgot, Aqua:"Im a salty brat"
#Irony

Anyway I'm not sure if I should or not, but I might as well announce that tnmjimbob had the idea that we write a new set of mod rules etc. with all mods and admins being able to add to an online word document, but again since this is a thing that I believe the community should have a voice in, as this we are there to make life better for them, I suggest we allow them to have either a thread or someway to contribute to the rules, or let them edit the worddoc personally.
I think the better idea is for the staff to create a general set of rules separate from those found here, if the community were to create the rules it would only create more controversy.

The staff will obviously take into account everything that has been happening over the past few months and come up with a reasonable set of rules, however like those have said before, once the staff make the rules you either follow them or face the consequences. I'm not going to say I've never broken the rules because I have, on many occasions and that is why I've always accepted my punishment unless I truly believed I was wrongly punished.

People seem to forget that while this may be an older community, and the forums may be PG13, I wouldn't say it is particularly fair on new users, regardless of whether they are 13, 9 or 55, that they should have to come onto the forums and see a shit storm of drama and people constantly using vulgar language. It isn't a good image for the community if let's say a 13 year old comes on and see's the word c*** and decides to say it to their parent because they believe it is acceptable; the parent may then ban said teen from coming on here and we've now lost another player. All this drama will only drive players away.

As for those arguing that the players here have "grown up" and we need to move towards the more 16+ rated games, not really. I still see younger users on here and the servers all the time, and there are only so many funds this community has. A good idea however to get what you want would've been to suggest a subscription service, where people can subscribe for $5 (which really isn't much if you work) and if you have 100 people subscribed then the community admin's can pay for all the things that you want because at the end of the day you, or we will be funding it. I would love more servers on here for gmod and steam games, whatever I find fun but cancelling servers that a multitude of players still play and love is not the answer.

And all this drama relating "admin abuse", I'm not being funny but staff will bitch, and complain, and dislike you if you are going to act like an annoying spoilt brat because something doesn't go your way. This is isn't a dig at any of the people that revolve this drama, because I used to be an annoying spoilt brat myself, I used to complain and piss off most admins, controllers, operators you name it because I'd die and complain like a bitch or cause drama and the staff got annoyed by it. I can see that now, and to be honest if I had to staff someone like my past self I'd get pretty frustrated too; so try and imagine how the staff are feeling if there are multiple versions of the old me, constantly nagging and causing problems for them when they are TRYING to solve issues. You cannot solve one issue when another one pops up, everyone just needs to try their best to avoid the drama and take things to PM, or off the site completely, because everyone is getting frustrated with each other and it isn't healthy for the survival of the community to be at each other's throats 24/7 on the forum.

(And for those that may turn round and go "oh but you do this, or did that, or said this or that" I know I'm a hypocrite, but that's why I know what I'm talking about)
 

Aqua

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People seem to forget that while this may be an older community, and the forums may be PG13, I wouldn't say it is particularly fair on new users, regardless of whether they are 13, 9 or 55, that they should have to come onto the forums and see a shit storm of drama and people constantly using vulgar language. It isn't a good image for the community if let's say a 13 year old comes on and see's the word c*** and decides to say it to their parent because they believe it is acceptable;
This is such stupid logic, this isn't the 1950's, for one by 13 I would be amazed if any child whoa ctively plays games on the internet, let alone gmod in which I've stated most of our new members come from. I have said the word cunt on TTT dozens of times, nobody's cared nobody has broken down into a fit of tears and ran away screaming; and I agree, this drama is off putting to new members (well mostly) but don't forget it was a lack of change from the last time this happened which caused this drama, so clearly something needs to change for this to not keep happening.
 
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