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Friendy

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This is such stupid logic, this isn't the 1950's, for one by 13 I would be amazed if any child whoa ctively plays games on the internet, let alone gmod in which I've stated most of our new members come from. I have said the word cunt on TTT dozens of times, nobody's cared nobody has broken down into a fit of tears and ran away screaming; and I agree, this drama is off putting to new members (well mostly) but don't forget it was a lack of change from the last time this happened which caused this drama, so clearly something needs to change for this to not keep happening.
I think the staff are pretty certain this problem won't go away without change as the point has been made clear, however continuing it will only delay and further frustrate the staff. Nobody wants this to get to the point that they start dishing out bans.

And I understand what you mean, however players can still feel intimidated and people like my younger brother who do see it on the internet quite often, wouldn't argue against the person in question if they are swearing all willy nilly because as I said, they'd be intimidated, and quite frankly you don't know whether the player is actually upset or not. Obviously it is their fault if they're lying about their age to play a game they aren't old enough to play, but regardless of whether that is the case, I don't think it is fair on the minecraft userbase which typically tends to be those of a younger age to be seeing what is being said half the time on this forum.
 

Hunter

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The staff will obviously take into account everything that has been happening over the past few months and come up with a reasonable set of rules
soon tm

literally no one asked about kids, we had this discussion with parquette. never again please

this happened several times so don't even pretend to assume staff will "obviously" do anything

this is still mostly a Minecraft community and we have not and likely never will move away from that

Aqua imo we should be able to at least view said gdoc and provide feedback, dunno about editing
 

Aqua

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I think the staff are pretty certain this problem won't go away without change as the point has been made clear, however continuing it will only delay and further frustrate the staff. Nobody wants this to get to the point that they start dishing out bans.

And I understand what you mean, however players can still feel intimidated and people like my younger brother who do see it on the internet quite often, wouldn't argue against the person in question if they are swearing all willy nilly because as I said, they'd be intimidated, and quite frankly you don't know whether the player is actually upset or not. Obviously it is their fault if they're lying about their age to play a game they aren't old enough to play, but regardless of whether that is the case, I don't think it is fair on the minecraft userbase which typically tends to be those of a younger age to be seeing what is being said half the time on this forum.
Intimidation is a double edged sword, I'd say people like vatu enforcing non-existing rules and being rude when the matter is brought up is more intimidating than an admin who is chill but also vulgar.

There are 3 options then, either continue being oppressive and strict as we are now, try and find a balance where all members are happy (as I've been suggesting) or be completely chill about everything... which surprisingly does work to an extent, I've seen it myself. All 3 have issues with them but also have pro's.

EDIT:
Hunter you'll have to ask tnm
 

Vatumok

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and I agree, this drama is off putting to new members (well mostly) but don't forget it was a lack of change from the last time this happened which caused this drama, so clearly something needs to change for this to not keep happening.
The posts deleted that sparked all of this were literally removed to prevent drama from happening in the solitude thread. You people are literally the cause of the drama. I don't (or didn't) have anything person against Aqua so stop saying that we are antagonizing like you stand above all of this; I did my job to prevent drama from happening by moderating a thread (first time) and I get attacked by Aqua (and later by other people here too), also with the out of context quotes. I have never reacted negatively towards Aqua without being challenged first. The reason why I acted aggresive in staff channel is because I was constantly pinged and trolled by Aqua.

I'm okay with working with other staff on that doc file to set clear rules for everyone but I am unwilling to compromise with Aqua, ender or Hunter as they have proven time after time that they cannot be reasoned with and are not qualified for staff.

Now you're plain bending the truth to make your argument with those out of context quotes and calling us "strict and oppresive" if we don't change. It's clear you are making a bogus argument with the latest few posts from Jivvi (plain insulting me errr technicalities!!), Hunter (calling it an ´antagonizing´ problem) and Aqua (just bending the truth so it fits his own ideas).
 

Aqua

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The posts deleted that sparked all of this were literally removed to prevent drama from happening in the solitude thread. You people are literally the cause of the drama. I don't (or didn't) have anything person against Aqua so stop saying that we are antagonizing like you stand above all of this; I did my job to prevent drama from happening by moderating a thread (first time) and I get attacked by Aqua (and later by other people here too), also with the out of context quotes. I have never reacted negatively towards Aqua without being challenged first. The reason why I acted aggresive in staff channel is because I was constantly pinged and trolled by Aqua.

I'm okay with working with other staff on that doc file to set clear rules for everyone but I am unwilling to compromise with Aqua, ender or Hunter as they have proven time after time that they cannot be reasoned with and are not qualified for staff.

Now you're plain bending the truth to make your argument with those out of context quotes and calling us "strict and oppresive" if we don't change. It's clear you are making a bogus argument with the latest few posts from Jivvi (plain insulting me errr technicalities!!), Hunter (calling it an ´antagonizing´ problem) and Aqua (just bending the truth so it fits his own ideas).
I'm sorry when did I attack you?
I only started talking to you after you joined the discord conversation with, and I quote:

Arjen "Vatu" - Yesterday at 6:19 PM

whereas I think ender's post was shitty

Arjen "Vatu" - Yesterday at 6:19 PM

at least it was funny



Arjen "Vatu" - Yesterday at 6:19 PM

you just posted shit only to derail/meme up the thread



Arjen "Vatu" - Yesterday at 6:21 PM

" Aqua



SalientGorilla, you're meant to be staff, why stir up more trouble like a fucking idiot with your dumb opinions, keep it private.

"

Learn to not be an ass
I only even addressed you after this?
And you say I attacked you friend, no no.
I simply wanted to ask why my posts were constantly being deleted, not just by you but by everyone over the course of the last month, Major_Bryan deleted quite a few of my posts, there was a big debate about deleting my link to myanimelist which broke NO RULES.
and yet, you have the audacity, to assume that me registering a complaint about staff was a "personal attack" I said @admin, not @vatu you just caught my attention.
 

CloudBryan9

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I've tried to stay away from commenting on this thread. But good lord, what f- did I just read in that pastebin and on this thread?

We say the same shit is coming up again over and over because nothing has changed. But have we ever attempted to make changes on the personal level? Sometimes as much as we all love to deny it, (I am guilty of this as well) we ourselves can be part of the problem. And that leads us to a crossroad:
A) We can stay the same and blame something or someone else and remain the same.
B) We can recognize our mistakes and attempt to fix them and change.

Me personally, I was too heavy handed in the moderation on one thread. I realized that after being called out and decided that despite what I felt at the time being, it was best for me to take a few steps back, reflect upon myself, apologize, and hold off from moderating for a bit to regain my cool. (Note: I didn't just "apologize" and right after that started to point fingers again.)


As the great San00b once said:
1. Stay classy, EscapeRestart.
No one likes to be insulted or abused. Nor does anyone like to see someone running around spouting off with vulgar language. It makes them look silly, and no one wants to look silly. With that in mind, we ask one very simple thing of you: Keep it classy.

2. Don't let a loophole become your noose.
Technicalities might be fun, but they don't fly. Just because you can abuse a glitch or flaw in our software doesn't mean you should. Just because there isn't a rule against something doesn't mean you should do it. We expect everyone to use common sense and good judgement when in our community.

3. Cats have nine lives; you dont.
We do our best to provide a fun, safe environment for everyone. This is the reason why we take our rules, and our enforcement of them, seriously. Punishments for breaking our rules can result in a kick as a gentle reminder, or a global ban from our entire community. If you feel you were punished without just cause, you may always appeal your ban in the respective forum section. The best way to avoid all the hassle? Know these rules, and the rules of the server you are playing on.
I'm also going to quote Superstein here as well, since he had some very wise mature advice.
Assuming that because you are still around, you care about this place. I'm glad, because I think that in suggesting your ideas you have the best intentions for the community in mind.

That being said, the admins will not take your opinion into consideration if you cannot maturely discuss, defend and articulate your ideas.
People don't like being told what to do, but people love having others do it for them. Most post deletions are shitty. I agree. But creating drama about it makes the admins reluctant to listen to you. Be someone worth listening to.
I hope that you guys on both sides will take a moment, to read and seriously think about what I said. Because in the end we are ONE close knit community whose common interest is playing video games. Whether we play G-Mod, Minecraft, Dota, LoL, etc. We are still are part of this community and everyone should be treated with respect.
If we continue to spit in each other's faces, it will damage the one core thing that we have in common and will make us look silly to the outside. Let's grow up and decide to take the personal step of turning the other cheek instead of spitting back and treating others as you would want them to treat you.
 

Vatumok

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Mr nice guy
Note some of these contain pings (while I didnt want to bother anymore).

I can play the same game, all quotes by Aqua:

"the fact that you can also read deleted posts and shit, triggers me"

"again
this is a videogame forum
not the Korean Government
harmless jokes among friends mean nothing"

"cleaaaaaarly dont otherwise we wouldnt be having this "discussion"
you're clearly bias against me"

"vatu here ban me from the servers and ban yourself from the forums then we're both happy?"

"I went on AoD once with jolt pace and mario
this is where vatu's hatred for me started
we timed it on ts and posted in chat
WOW
THAT'S A
LOW
PRICE
and he got super mad
and threatened to ban us and shit"
^ plain lie

"but yeah... I think the morale of the story here is @Arjen "Vatu" Needs to have a Positive. Mental. Attitude.(◕‿◕✿)"

"the needs of the many out way the needs of the few
vatu may be salty
but everyone else had a great time
and as a community
we move forward
\o/"

"@Arjen "Vatu" hi"

"[19:20:07] Adam / Aqua: so tempted to type
[19:20:09] Adam / Aqua: @vatu hi
[19:20:09] Oskar Samuel | Ender: we were discussing eurovision at some point
[19:20:15] Oskar Samuel | Ender: do it
Hunter
[19:20:16] Hunter: do it"

"@Arjen "Vatu" calm down bro
it's only a game"

"Vatu, I thought I made this clear last night. You are an asshole. And this isn't coming just from me, I know a good 20-30 people who are still active in this community (most whoa ren't even in the lol or skype groups) that think that also. So instead of convincing yourself that we're all dicks trying to ruin the communtiy why don't you just stop and look at yourself. Maybe people would actually like you if you used your power for them, rather than against them."

"btw vatu in my post I was being sincere, seriously a large amount of the active community hates you, they're just too polite to say it... and so was I after you made your post. So rate it funny as mutch as you like, and surround yourself in the few that do enjoy your company but it isn't gonna change anything <3" - Aqua
 

3nd3rslayer

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Guys,
if a person is elected fit to be staff, then there is a reason
If I were in you, I would trust staff decision and respect it. If they delete a post, even if it was silent deleting they have the right to do so, as they know better then any player what is right and what is wrong. creating all this drama is useless, as the staff know perfectly well what they are doing, and I am sure they are right.

I also find it immature how some staff are aggressive to other staff, trying to put them in difficulty, and thats not the right spirit.
We are a community so we need to act like one and help each other to make it even better and to improve our own faults. If we keep arguing and making these nasty comments, insulting game modes, putting staff in difficulty, saying bad stuff about people without mentioning their good qualities, we will never go well together.

If you really want to make this server better, stop making all this drama, and then trying to prove that you are correct, continuing the discussion as that does not help the community, it does the opposite.
 

Hunter

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The posts deleted that sparked all of this were literally removed to prevent drama from happening in the solitude thread. You people are literally the cause of the drama. I don't (or didn't) have anything person against Aqua so stop saying that we are antagonizing like you stand above all of this; I did my job to prevent drama from happening by moderating a thread (first time) and I get attacked by Aqua (and later by other people here too), also with the out of context quotes. I have never reacted negatively towards Aqua without being challenged first. The reason why I acted aggresive in staff channel is because I was constantly pinged and trolled by Aqua.

I'm okay with working with other staff on that doc file to set clear rules for everyone but I am unwilling to compromise with Aqua, ender or Hunter as they have proven time after time that they cannot be reasoned with and are not qualified for staff.

Now you're plain bending the truth to make your argument with those out of context quotes and calling us "strict and oppresive" if we don't change. It's clear you are making a bogus argument with the latest few posts from Jivvi (plain insulting me errr technicalities!!), Hunter (calling it an ´antagonizing´ problem) and Aqua (just bending the truth so it fits his own ideas).
don't lump me with that
one: deleting to avoid drama
name literally one time ever that has worked
consistently, deleting creates drama. in any case, stuff should be deleted soon after it's posted or seen, not days afterwards

two: you clearly have a grudge. what the heck have i ever done to you? afaik it's aqua who antagonizes you and you are antagonizing him back. both of you are in the wrong.

three: how the hell is saying hi offensive
 

Nottykitten

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So can anyone explain to me the purpose of the current discussion? Or what the current discussion even is? Is it even about post deletions anymore or is it just Vat and Aqua trying to prove who is the better man(which honestly there is no need to do publicly unless you want the community to vote on it?). This thread has gotten so confusing someone enlighten me.
 

Friendy

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don't lump me with that
one: deleting to avoid drama
name literally one time ever that has worked
consistently, deleting creates drama. in any case, stuff should be deleted soon after it's posted or seen, not days afterwards

two: you clearly have a grudge. what the heck have i ever done to you? afaik it's aqua who antagonizes you and you are antagonizing him back. both of you are in the wrong.

three: how the hell is saying hi offensive
Well if it hasn't been reported and the staff don't directly see/read your message then they won't know of said drama. The staff are well within their rights to remove posts they deem are either driving the topic offtopic, are irrelevant, against the tos, or general stupidity/trolling.
 

Enderfive

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The posts deleted that sparked all of this were literally removed to prevent drama from happening in the solitude thread. You people are literally the cause of the drama.
No, see, every time this has happened, from "what are you, fucking gay?" to "zero players really adds to the atmosphere" it has been us making a joke, without any ulterior motive. The shit starts when either you or Major_Bryan (and seriously, it's only you two; well, Psycho as well, but he's been pretty chill ever since Let's Talk so I'll assume he actually took the previous shitstorms into account) presume to butt in and delete the posts you don't like or slap a warn on us for them. If it violates a rule, point the rule out for me, if it doesn't, then maybe you don't have to moderate it after all, and if you do, just give a friendly nudge or something, don't launch into maximum damage control right away. Delete the post for all I care, but explain to me why you're doing it so we wouldn't have shit like this every time you delete a post I believe to be just fine, and don't be a dick about it. It's just not necessary.

And the other thing I'm still a bit confused about is the inconsistency in the moderation that is shown. Ooglie makes an off-topic post somewhere and it's fine, some people laugh, someone drops a dislike, no posts get deleted and life goes on. Which is fine, which is something I see continuously happening here and therefore figure it's fine for me to do as well without being made any sort of troll or someone that simply shits in threads to get a rise out of people. And then when I post a joke, immature and negative, perhaps, but still a joke, then I watch the dislikes drop in along with winners and think, okay, maybe that wasn't the best joke. But I don't think "oh boy, this is gonna cause some major drama", because it doesn't, at least not up until the point you delete it. Which was what left me flabbergasted the first time I noticed it, because Psycho had seen it and done nothing about, you yourself had seen it and done nothing about it; the logs that Aqua posted even clearly show you stating that my post was acceptable, if stupid, which is why you initially didn't delete it.

And then Bryan comes along and says "woah, that's a really asshole-ish thing to say and you should be demoted" and suddenly your whole view of the situation has changed so much that you not only delete the joke post, which I can accept, given the explanation, but you also delete the on-topic post I made about the best thing for Solitude being the removal of it, like you had with Aqua the previous evening. And then you say that anyone posting more off-topic stuff will be officially warned, as if the stuff you deleted, besides my initial joke, was actually off-topic. Furthermore, when I make another post, only this time going into a bit more detail about why we should remove Solitude, you let it stay. Is that post on topic then? And if it is, then why delete the posts saying the same thing with less words for being off-topic and say we're being passive aggressive towards you (you hadn't even posted in the thread up to this point, where do you even pull this stuff from?) and shitposting/memeing up the thread?

Not only that, apparently it's fine for head-staff to call out members of the community for being insufferable little shits, but when a lowly member such as myself does the same thing, it's a personal attack. Not only that, apparently when I say in a mafia game that raxo is a bit dumb when it comes to mafia, and am clear that it's not supposed to be a personal insult, just a reason why we shouldn't lynch him or should lynch him or whatever I was trying to say at the moment, it's a personal attack and "dumb" is changed to "genius" (by Bryan), completely negating my argument, but when Aqua submits a report in a mafia game for a personal attack of a similar magnitude, it's an abuse of the report system. Not only that, when Aqua calls you an asshole, you're mad as fuck about it, and I personally understand why you would be, but, what do you know, when Bryan calls me an asshole, you don't tell him to stop flaming, you literally say he summed it up pretty well and then proceed to delete just everything in the thread by Aqua and me, regardless of content.

If those examples (and these are just off the top of my head) aren't a clear indication of a double standard then I don't know what is; sort this out or make it official that the word of staff is the word of god, two very clear options here. Malc already sort of implied the second option earlier and even though I think it's a shittier route to take, it's ultimately up to the discretion of the head staff, but for the love of god, make it clear in that case. Telling me it's common sense and I should be able to figure this out after four years here is frankly bullshit, because the majority of the clues I pick up myself tell me otherwise.

In every single incident between our two groups (but I assure you, every single member of the "cancer skype group" has their own thoughts about this all and you can't really lump us together), we have only stacked the firewood without even realising it, and it's you that strikes the match. If you see a dangerous situation, just make sure there's a bucket of water nearby, don't set the logs on fire and leave them without supervision.
 

Aqua

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No, see, every time this has happened, from "what are you, fucking gay?" to "zero players really adds to the atmosphere" it has been us making a joke, without any ulterior motive. The shit starts when either you or Major_Bryan (and seriously, it's only you two; well, Psycho as well, but he's been pretty chill ever since Let's Talk so I'll assume he actually took the previous shitstorms into account) presume to butt in and delete the posts you don't like or slap a warn on us for them. If it violates a rule, point the rule out for me, if it doesn't, then maybe you don't have to moderate it after all, and if you do, just give a friendly nudge or something, don't launch into maximum damage control right away. Delete the post for all I care, but explain to me why you're doing it so we wouldn't have shit like this every time you delete a post I believe to be just fine, and don't be a dick about it. It's just not necessary.

And the other thing I'm still a bit confused about is the inconsistency in the moderation that is shown. Ooglie makes an off-topic post somewhere and it's fine, some people laugh, someone drops a dislike, no posts get deleted and life goes on. Which is fine, which is something I see continuously happening here and therefore figure it's fine for me to do as well without being made any sort of troll or someone that simply shits in threads to get a rise out of people. And then when I post a joke, immature and negative, perhaps, but still a joke, then I watch the dislikes drop in along with winners and think, okay, maybe that wasn't the best joke. But I don't think "oh boy, this is gonna cause some major drama", because it doesn't, at least not up until the point you delete it. Which was what left me flabbergasted the first time I noticed it, because Psycho had seen it and done nothing about, you yourself had seen it and done nothing about it; the logs that Aqua posted even clearly show you stating that my post was acceptable, if stupid, which is why you initially didn't delete it.

And then Bryan comes along and says "woah, that's a really asshole-ish thing to say and you should be demoted" and suddenly your whole view of the situation has changed so much that you not only delete the joke post, which I can accept, given the explanation, but you also delete the on-topic post I made about the best thing for Solitude being the removal of it, like you had with Aqua the previous evening. And then you say that anyone posting more off-topic stuff will be officially warned, as if the stuff you deleted, besides my initial joke, was actually off-topic. Furthermore, when I make another post, only this time going into a bit more detail about why we should remove Solitude, you let it stay. Is that post on topic then? And if it is, then why delete the posts saying the same thing with less words for being off-topic and say we're being passive aggressive towards you (you hadn't even posted in the thread up to this point, where do you even pull this stuff from?) and shitposting/memeing up the thread?

Not only that, apparently it's fine for head-staff to call out members of the community for being insufferable little shits, but when a lowly member such as myself does the same thing, it's a personal attack. Not only that, apparently when I say in a mafia game that raxo is a bit dumb when it comes to mafia, and am clear that it's not supposed to be a personal insult, just a reason why we shouldn't lynch him or should lynch him or whatever I was trying to say at the moment, it's a personal attack and "dumb" is changed to "genius" (by Bryan), completely negating my argument, but when Aqua submits a report in a mafia game for a personal attack of a similar magnitude, it's an abuse of the report system. Not only that, when Aqua calls you an asshole, you're mad as fuck about it, and I personally understand why you would be, but, what do you know, when Bryan calls me an asshole, you don't tell him to stop flaming, you literally say he summed it up pretty well and then proceed to delete just everything in the thread by Aqua and me, regardless of content.

If those examples (and these are just off the top of my head) aren't a clear indication of a double standard then I don't know what is; sort this out or make it official that the word of staff is the word of god, two very clear options here. Malc already sort of implied the second option earlier and even though I think it's a shittier route to take, it's ultimately up to the discretion of the head staff, but for the love of god, make it clear in that case. Telling me it's common sense and I should be able to figure this out after four years here is frankly bullshit, because the majority of the clues I pick up myself tell me otherwise.

In every single incident between our two groups (but I assure you, every single member of the "cancer skype group" has their own thoughts about this all and you can't really lump us together), we have only stacked the firewood without even realising it, and it's you that strikes the match. If you see a dangerous situation, just make sure there's a bucket of water nearby, don't set the logs on fire and leave them without supervision.


INB4 the really mature vatu r eplies with TL;DR
 

Mooglie

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Ooglie makes an off-topic post somewhere and it's fine, some people laugh, someone drops a dislike, no posts get deleted and life goes on.
hey my weiner holding post got removed!
my presence of shitposter has been revealed abort abort abort
does this count as off-topic oops
 

Enderfive

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hey my weiner holding post got removed!
my presence of shitposter has been revealed abort abort abort
does this count as off-topic oops
to be fair that's even more ridiculous, wiener isnt even a swear word so what the hell was the deal with deleting that

well, i suppose i'll concede this particular example then, but the point i was making still remains
 

jackamel

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Can we please stop with the big essay replies....

Just learn where the line is, and if your called out, learn to be responsible for your actions. We live in an age where people around the world are anonymous on a computer and therefore aren't held accountable for things they say. Don't joke about things (race, sex, gender) that may be offensive to someone. As for solitude, many people worked hard on it, even if you don't like it, please be constructive in saying so. Have respect for each other.
 

Aqua

Does anybody remember laughter?
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to be fair that's even more ridiculous, wiener isnt even a swear word so what the hell was the deal with deleting that

well, i suppose i'll concede this particular example then, but the point i was making still remains
tbh that was kinda a different matter, everyones posts were deleted there, by sirc, and he was polite about it. I don't blame him at all. The problem with whats happening now is admins are picking and choosing what they think is ok and whats not, clearly going off of personal preference of the subject matter and more importantly the poster. Which is why we need to set up and define a new set of rules for admins and mods to follow.
 

CloudBryan9

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:Sigh: and I thought I was handing out an olive branch...

I do have a quick question, when did I ever say that Ender should be demoted? Please don't put words into my mouth that I never said. And if it is a paraphrase, please make sure that it isn't adding stuff that wasn't said. I had absolutely nothing to do with your demotion, so don't drag me into this.

As for the mafia post, it was 100% my mistake. I was new with forum moderating, it was reported by the person you were talking about, and I didn't realize that I shouldn't touch the mafia section. I was reprimanded by Priz and I never touch that section again.
 

Aqua

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I think the point was you can't call people out on their behaviour when yours is equally shitty.
My behaviour isn't what's the matter here, if I should be demoted, demote me. However, the point I'm making is that I don't go around trying to act like a saint, but then do shit like this.

If vatu just relaxed and stopped being so... totalitarian for loss of a better word, then it would be fine.
and as I said before, he claims I was attacking him and I'm having a tantrum but clearly it was the opposite, and I can't prove my point because the logs keep getting deleted.
 
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