Map Committee

[Velzerat]

Current members

LP: Refrigerated, Wimali
Staff member: IQD, Tamzies
Regular member: Virazu, Laceflower, Kuilin, llamaman5000​

I suggested this a few weeks ago in the staff forum and would like some player input. Most importantly, I would like to know who would like to be a part of this. I'll copypaste what I posted in the server forums (with a few edits):

RoF Map Committee
​

i. Preface​

Earlier today, I was looking over the CVMR results and felt as though the results were a bit odd and although most of the comments were accurate I believe that there are probably more reliable ways of deciding which maps should be kept and which ones should get removed. Community input is awesome but should not be the only deciding factor.

ii. Proposition
The solution? A map committee. This would be a dedicated team of volunteers who decide on the map pool and its various details. It would consist of staff members and normal players.
Their main task can be summed up as ensuring the quality of the map pool and maintaining it. This can be split into three main tasks:

• Reviewing the existing map rotation to remove bad/unpopular maps and clean up the map pool
• Reviewing map submissions to decide what maps should get added
  • They would be aided in this task by player comments on the submission thread as well as comments from staff members on the forums/trello
  • They would also voice their opinions on Map Competitions and/or join the judges in deciding which maps should win
• Reviewing map lengths and ensuring that each map has a good balance

All of these tasks would be done on a map-by-map basis, focusing on getting it all just right- No half-assed decisions or batch-changing.

They could also voice their opinions on other various map-related things such as timer placement, time between waves, nobuild/nodrop/nobreak on each map, but those would not be the main focus—the main tasks at hand would be the three listed above.

A fourth task could be the organization and reviewing of Community-Voted Map Rotations like the one we had recently. Not only analyzing the data, but also taking into consideration every single comment made by players and processing them in such a way that we learn more about what players want in RoF maps and more map-related information.

iii. Team
The ideal team, in my eyes, would consist of anywhere between three and six people in total:

• 1 or 2 Chief(s) who finalize decisions and oversee the committee in general, in cooperation with the high staff of RoF (Directors). They decide which specific things should be focused on.
• 1 or 2 staff members who provide input and decide on things and help with editing maps
• 1 or 2 normal players who provide input and decide on things.

A key point regarding the team is that it would be completely voluntary, without any handpicking or forced membership. It’s important that only motivated people, who want to be a part of this, become members. This ensures that the Committee is motivated and wants to actively improve the map rotation.

This also means that the team is not set in stone. If there are no staff members or normal players who want to be a part of the Committee, there won’t be any in the Committee. If members go inactive, they get kicked out.

iv. Conclusion
A map committee would be a valuable tool in cleaning up the map pool and ensuring its quality. Although staff members and normal players would be able to voice their opinions on maps, it’s down to the Map Committee to make final decisions.

Later post in the same thread:

More specific tasks for a potential Map Committee to do:

1. Reviewing the existing map rotation to remove bad/unpopular maps and clean up the map pool
This would be done on a map-by-map basis, based on the latest CVMR and players’ opinions in the server. Some maps might not get removed but could get edited to suit the server more. The maps would also be reviewed for quality and balance, in various ways:

A. Make sure a spawnhouse can be built on each map by providing blocks which are safe on all moods around each spawnpoint, to ensure that late-joiners or people who got flooded can create a spawnhouse on any map at any time.
B. Make sure no overpowered items/blocks are available by removing hidden chests, an excess of a certain (rare) material. We would also try to remove things rather than making them nobreak/nodrop due to nobreak/nodrop being very annoying for the normal player.
C. Make sure nobreak/nodrop is more consistent by reviewing each map’s nodrop/nobreak list. Some maps with a lot of quarts don’t have it as nobreak, other maps with almost no quartz at all have it on nobreak—it doesn’t make any sense.
D. Make sure maps are playable/survivable on all moods as well as making sure that maps aren't too laggy on all moods.
D. Make sure spawnpoints are somewhere high in the map so that the spawn is not flooded early on.

2. Reviewing map lengths to ensure that each map has a good length
This would also be done on a map-by-map basis, as it is impossible to decide this based on a few hard factors like a maps’ size. This should not only be based on the size of a map, but also on its popularity and the amount of content it offers.

A. Make sure all timers release in time for the entire map to flood.
B. Make sure all timers are in good locations which don’t ruin the aesthetics of the map.
C. Potentially make all timers like the ones on Hole because that looks so much more beautiful—but this would be an extra thing, not a priority at all
D. Make sure that the timers are evenly spaced out so that people have enough time to explore each map but also give an appropriate time between each wave and major change of height which gets flooded.

3. Reviewing map submissions to decide which maps get added

A. Take into consideration comments on the forum thread left by players and staff as well as comments on the trello
B. Voice opinions on map competitions (and/or be judges) as well as organizing community-voted map rotations
C. Review the current map format on the forums and adapt it for different gamemodes as well as including more things for people to fill in (only things which are required; no need to add useless fluff)

They would also have various other tasks, which fall outside those three categories but should still get done:

4. Fix all of those air holes/pockets in all of the maps. This would be a long-term project, slowly getting worked on.
5. Backup all maps and their configurations in case something like the airholes thing happens again so we can just restore maps to a time before they had something like that.
6.Create a complete map list preferably as a spreadsheet, with as much info as possible
7. Update the map authors for all maps currently in-rotation
8. Create Winter/Summer versions of maps to have a "seasonal" rotation-- to spice things up. (people like this)
9. Add more alternate spawns on maps like the one on spoopy
10. Make sure all timers look consistent with every timer looking the exact same and being clearly marked.
11. Create a map changelog so players are always up-to-date with map changes and new maps being added/removed from the rotation.
12. Provide information to mapmakers regarding what's allowed/banned in maps, what's possible, etc.

That's all I posted in the staff forums. What do you guys think?

 

[kuilin]

Would the people on the Committee have access to the map files? I would imagine that having a copy of them would greatly assist in finding errors like accidental voxelsniper hole caverns like the one in Industrial_Zone, etc, and it's not like it's private information since anyone with worlddownloader mod can grab the file.

 

[Velzerat]

Staff members would (as far as I know) be given the powers to load and unload maps. Either way, they can use /gm 3 to find things in maps. I doubt map files are really needed. SirComputer would probably know more about this.

 

[Psycho]

Map files don't need to be downloaded as I'm sure that the edits will be done on the server and as a group. Plus if anyone is using a mod that copies a world then they should be banned from the server.

 

[Kevin_28]

I'd like to make a motion to change the title of, "Chief" to, "Chairman and Vice-Chairman".

Are the Chiefs (current title) current staff members or can they also be lay members? I believe one of the Chiefs should be a ROF staff member. If you go with the titles of Chairman and Vice-Chairman for the two people, I recommend the Chairman be a ROF staff member. How are the Chiefs selected, by volunteer, committee member selection, or director selection? Are they to hold a specific monthly/weekly meeting or will it be on an "as needed" basis? Will they submit meeting minutes to the directors? I have no problems with the idea as long as we have the people who are willing to devote their time to it.

<more in jest>
Second motion is to form a Nominating Committee to nominate potential members for the Map Committee
Third motion is to form a committee on committees to nominate members for the nominating committee to nominate potential members for the Map Committee.
</more in jest>

 

[Velzerat]

I'd like to make a motion to change the title of, "Chief" to, "Chairman and Vice-Chairman".

But Chief sounds cooler!

Are the Chiefs (current title) current staff members or can they also be lay members?

They'd have to be staff members. A normal player can't be trusted with editing and/or making decisions over maps.

How are the Chiefs selected, by volunteer, committee member selection, or director selection?

Hm. Probably selected by director/discussed by staff? Shouldn't be too official. Definitely keep volunteers in mind, however-- this entire thing collapses if the members are not motivated. It's incredibly important that the chief wants to be chief because he cares about the maps, and not just for some stupid made up title.

Are they to hold a specific monthly/weekly meeting or will it be on an "as needed" basis?

I think a meeting would be overdoing it, but it could be useful to have a "Progress report" each month or so to see what's been improved on and what still needs work as well as selecting the next goals.

Will they submit meeting minutes to the directors?

Well, most stuff would probably be happening over Trello so the directors should be able to see that.

I have no problems with the idea as long as we have the people who are willing to devote their time to it.

Yeah, cannot stress how motivation is absolutely key.

 

[SirComputer]

Chief does sound cooler, and they will be staff only. Trello should be the primary source of organisation in the committee, so that makes it easy for me to check what's going on. I'd discuss with staff who would be chief, but I have a couple of names in mind that I'd like to ask to lead. If people want to do this, I really want this to go ahead. I really do not want to be dealing with lots of maps, especially with lots of bugs to fix and features to add and IRL to do (IRL? What!?) and bah.

 

[Kevin_28]

I've never come across Chief being used to reference a committee head. While Chief certainly has a nice ring to it, I believe Chairman is a more appropriate title. It sounds like you would rather stick to having a co-chief setup instead of a figure head chief and vice chief. Do you think that having two staff members as Chiefs brings in potential conflict as the make up of the committee is now skewed towards staff members instead of allowing for equal representation? Just how are decisions made in this committee? Is it not through the vote of the majority?

 

[Velzerat]

It's to appeal to the younger crowd. Chief connects more with a younger audience. Urban dictionary describes Chief as the following:

(v.) To smoke marijuana. Commonly used as slang for "getting high", "smoking up", etc.

Yo let's go chief after school today.

also screwthemajority #WeAreTheOnePercent

 

[Vatumok]

I'm not saying this is a bad idea but isn't it already part of the job for staff members? It seems like this is trying too hard to be official, there's probably more time into getting this set up, keeping everyone motivated and managing it than just working with the staff team.
Perhaps give all moderators the permissed to load/edit maps (like on AoD) so that they can quickly fix map issues when they find them.

 

[Velzerat]

I wouldn't say that this is the current job of staff members right now at all, to be honest. Moderators currently are not able to load and unload maps (they can only edit a map if a Controller+ loads a map) and most maps don't really touch maps at all. The main point of this is really to assign specific people to specific tasks-- currently, there's a lot of work that needs to be done with maps, and something like this could be a major help to that. Also, the entire point of this to find people who are motivated to change maps-- I doubt most moderators actively want to improve maps as much as is outlined in this thread (nor should they want to-- it's not a part of their job) so just giving all moderators permission to load/edit maps would probably accomplish nothing.

 

[Hunter]

idk about this for lava, but every so often, tnt pm'd staff and regulars for a map purge, voting on the current maps and suggesting changes/improvements

making a formal "committee" is kinda silly imo

as for map submissions, haven't players always been able to provide their input on the threads

 

[asaechao]

idk about this for lava, but every so often, tnt pm'd staff and regulars for a map purge, voting on the current maps and suggesting changes/improvements

making a formal "committee" is kinda silly imo

as for map submissions, haven't players always been able to provide their input on the threads

Yes, players have always been able to provide their input, but Wimali means voting on the submissions - i.e. +1, 0 or -1

 

[Velzerat]

What Virazu said + as you can see in the map submissions subforum, pretty much no one actually votes on maps. The whole point of making it a formal thing is that you actively assign tasks to people and that they feel motivated to do it. Also, this allows for constant improvement, not just small improvements every few months and nothing actually getting done. As you can see in the original post, we have a TON of work that needs to be done-- and we'll take all the help we can get.

 

[Hunter]

well if that's the case, can't you just give people cookies for voting on maps

 

[Velzerat]

The map committee is an actual thing now. Great success so far, we've already fixed a few things here and there and are working towards some general goals. Here's the team:

Leading Person: Refrigerated & Wimali
Staff members: Mulbery, Tamzies
Regular members: IQDestructor, Laceflower, Swift_Siren, Virazu, Fan2Mario64

If you'd like to see some of the changes we've made, check out the maps changelog.

 

[Rune]

My reply is pretty late but this is a great idea. I'm gonna keep this short because it's 1:30am but some things do need to improved in the map pool. I feel like maps should be optimised for the greatest experience which isn't being fulfilled on some maps. We should look at the functional sides of a map and not just how pretty it looks because then it then compromises the game play of that map. Further going on from this, maybe have a dedicated server or something which tests map submissions in all moods and see how the game play is like instead of guessing how it will be like. For instance, the map will rotate through all of the combinations to see if gameplay is good; which will cut down time for a judgement to be made and therefore becomes more efficient. It's understandable though if you don't want to add a test server if it takes too much resources ect. I would have volunteered but it seems like you guys have already picked.

Good job on the progress though!

 

[Velzerat]

We should look at the functional sides of a map and not just how pretty it looks because then it then compromises the game play of that map.

Yes. Yes. So much yes. Gameplay is infinitely more important than aesthetics, and it feels like especially in the last few years, there's been a much bigger focus on the prettiness of maps than the actual gameplay. Maps like Rebirth and Wutfort may look nice, but their playability is terrible. I definitely think we should be keeping gameplay more in mind when reviewing map (submission)s.

 

[Psycho]

Maps like Rebirth and Wutfort may look nice, but their playability is terrible.

These are classic maps though.

 

[Velzerat]

These are classic maps though.

Exactly! Classic maps should form a template for players to build on, not be an already filled area with no space left to build in.

 

[Rune]

Exactly! Classic maps should form a template for players to build on, not be an already filled area with no space left to build in.

Agreed. We got maps which fill in the space which people could potentially use for map building. Making it so you fill up all of the empty space with just useless things which get into the way is annoying. I love when we got a huge building with all of the little tunnels which really make it look good but having Classic maps which have objects get into the way is annoying because you have to either remove it or try to incorporate it; even though it may be ugly. For instance, maps which are quite empty may sacrifice how nice it looks; which it seems like what Psycho cares the most about because they are 'classic maps' but the sacrifice is necessary; because even though they are classic maps, they should not impede the maps functionality and playability. These should be considered more than how good it looks because in the end, a creative map which the criteria allows you to build any building you want in RoF but gets in the way in building is a huge mistake and one which should be fixed. The mind set of because it looks pretty, it should be added even though the game play is horrible should be gotten rid of immediately.

Just because it's a Classic map shouldn't mean it should impede ones creativity by including objects which get in the way, but allow their creativity to flourish because they have the space to fill in what they want. The canvas should be empty for them to build on and not already painted in.

 

[SirComputer]

In most cases, you need that balance of gameplay and aesthetics. If a Classic map's ridiculously ugly, it's not going to be accepted, but if you can't play it because of all the stuff crammed in, it's not going to be accepted either. This "canvas" shouldn't be full, but it doesn't need to be empty either.

 

[Velzerat]

The Map Committee has accomplished a lot so far. In less than a month, we've accomplished the following things:

• Removed a few bad maps from the rotation & accepted/denied maps based on comments from map committee
• Made it so that spawnhouses can be made on all moods on all maps (one of the biggest things on the to-do list, completely finished)
• Thought of map renames and implemented them into the server (14 mapnames changed, names suggested and voted on by map committee, using google forms)
• Updated the map submission format to be completely up-to-date (including new stuff for DR & KOTL)
• Fixed most of the nodrop/nobreak/noplace issues on maps

A lot of stuff done in a very short amount of time! We've also replaced Fan2Mario64 with Runemen4. Current members list:

LP: Refrigerated, Wimali
Staff member: IQD, Tamzies
Regular member: Virazu, Laceflower, Runemen4, Swift_Siren