Zambie Mafia - Day 4 - Game Over - Town Victory

[Ltin]

I seem to be getting the impression that the very act of having suspicions is suspicious to vat.

 

[Infected_alien8_]

To start with, this post.

Basically your entire first paragraph is pointless. I just explained you why I put some suspicion on them and now you are like hm.. maybe you were testing them but I'm not 100% sure about it.

Your second paragraph also makes very little sense. Ender has a lot of good points to find mafia members but that doesn't make him seem town. In my post I even specifically said zombies rather have mafia dead than townies at this moment. I just don't want people to fall in a false sense of security. After that I clearly said that it's not justifyable to lynch Ender for that so I have no idea why you are being so defensive. Regarding you + Ender and the inn theory read back one of my previous posts.

Other confusing things you've said was the inn theory, talking more than necessary and other things like trying to push Ltin's suspicion on me. In general your behaviour this game seems a bit off.

But...wha? Sure Zombies want Mafia dead more than town but how do you know that Dess is mafia and not zombie? I don't think ender ever said he thinks dessern is mafia, just not town. I get it, we shouldn't trust ender just because he seems town, but why does that make him more suspicious that some other people? It just doesn't make sense to me.

The inn theory was NOT CONFUSING IT WAS B E A U T I F U L! But yeah I don't see how it was confusing. It was just wrong. But it still made at least some sense. I know you made that post about how zombies could infect mafia and win but then ltin pointed out, zombies can't infect mafia.

And my first paragraph wasn't 'pointless', it was me pointing out that I still hold suspicion for you, which develops discussion and shows others where I'm at.

 

[Vatumok]

I seem to be getting the impression that the very act of having suspicions is suspicious to vat.

It may look like that but you have to consider we are in an interesting gamestate. With the groups being split presumably 2 zombies, 3 mafia and 4 town. Because the groups are so close together in numbers it is important to take a closer look into a suspicion right now. Zombies and mafia want to push lynch votes now towards each other.

 

[Vatumok]

But...wha? Sure Zombies want Mafia dead more than town but how do you know that Dess is mafia and not zombie? I don't think ender ever said he thinks dessern is mafia, just not town.

Quoted from Ender: "These three things are the reasons I'm suspicious of him. Firstly, the active lurking. I explained this enough when I made the case for Mars to be lynched, so I don't think I have to do it again. Secondly, the way he defended Mars at first. The fact that he did it in the first place is enough to make me a little less trusting of him, considering Mars flipped scum, but he also tried to do it by using a strawman to misrepresent Tim's little tidbit about the slip as the core of both of our arguments against Mars, while ignoring pretty much the entire actual discussion we had going on at the time. Now, I can understand that sometimes people misunderstand arguments and Tim pointed out that the slip was very much not the only reason we were lynching Mars, and Dess accepted that, but still tried to represent the slip as the "pushing factor", in order to better defend Mars. I don't know about you guys, but this has my scumradar pointing pretty heavily towards Dess. Add to that the fact that once Mars being lynched was inevitable, he gave in without much reasoning and switched his vote to Mars, which is something that scum tends to do when confronted with the reality of their teammate being the one that's being lynched."

 

[Ltin]

It may look like that but you have to consider we are in an interesting gamestate. With the groups being split presumably 2 zombies, 3 mafia and 4 town. Because the groups are so close together in numbers it is important to take a closer look into a suspicion right now. Zombies and mafia want to push lynch votes now towards each other.

That's a bit of a stretch imo

 

[Infected_alien8_]

Quoted from Ender: "These three things are the reasons I'm suspicious of him. Firstly, the active lurking. I explained this enough when I made the case for Mars to be lynched, so I don't think I have to do it again. Secondly, the way he defended Mars at first. The fact that he did it in the first place is enough to make me a little less trusting of him, considering Mars flipped scum, but he also tried to do it by using a strawman to misrepresent Tim's little tidbit about the slip as the core of both of our arguments against Mars, while ignoring pretty much the entire actual discussion we had going on at the time. Now, I can understand that sometimes people misunderstand arguments and Tim pointed out that the slip was very much not the only reason we were lynching Mars, and Dess accepted that, but still tried to represent the slip as the "pushing factor", in order to better defend Mars. I don't know about you guys, but this has my scumradar pointing pretty heavily towards Dess. Add to that the fact that once Mars being lynched was inevitable, he gave in without much reasoning and switched his vote to Mars, which is something that scum tends to do when confronted with the reality of their teammate being the one that's being lynched."

Oh okay fair enough. So you have suspicion on Ender because he wants to lynch mafia rather than find a zombie?

 

[Vatumok]

Oh okay fair enough. So you have suspicion on Ender because he wants to lynch mafia rather than find a zombie?

Basically. That doesn't mean he's anti-town but it's not unreasonable to think that he could be a zombie that's trying to lynch mafia while making good points to look town.

 

[Infected_alien8_]

Also I just thought, if we're hunting for zombies, we should look into people that are pretty town, because zombies can't infect mafia so they'd go for town looking people, so whoever they've infected will be town appearing people most likely.

 

[Infected_alien8_]

But that's not to say we should lynch pro towns, just that I think if there's someone everyone is comfortable being townie (such as Fal) then maybe we should keep an eye on them.

 

[Enderfive]

i was wondering when and from whom the "he's too town" argument would come from, considering how up until now everyone seemed eager to follow me

if you can point me towards a zombie, i'd be happy to lynch them as well; the reason i haven't done so right now is simply because i haven't got the slightest clue as to who they may be and the potential zombies pointed out by other people haven't really convinced me

 

[Infected_alien8_]

i was wondering when and from whom the "he's too town" argument would come from, considering how up until now everyone seemed eager to follow me

if you can point me towards a zombie, i'd be happy to lynch them as well; the reason i haven't done so right now is simply because i haven't got the slightest clue as to who they may be and the potential zombies pointed out by other people haven't really convinced me

How come your writing style just drastically changed hmm!

 

[Enderfive]

How come your writing style just drastically changed hmm!

i can't tell if that's sarcastic or not

possibly because i just woke up after four hours of sleep

 

[Infected_alien8_]

Also I just realized, Vat, I don't think we've ever actually played a game together when I was town before, so me acting differently/talking more probably isn't a reason to be suspicious of me \o/

i can't tell if that's sarcastic or not

possibly because i just woke up after four hours of sleep

No it wasn't sarcastic, I just found it interesting that your writing style changed when someone pointed fingers at you, and wasn't sure if it was a psychological thing, like panic manifesting into you changing your writing to act all chill #crazymindtheory

My current suspects for zombies:
Faliara
Ender
Timdood3

My current suspects for mafia:
Geekenstein
Dessern
Timdood3

My current suspects for town:
Ooglie101 (bit too quiet tho)
Ltin
Vatumok (?)
Me

Lone Survivor:
Jkangaroo (Ender's post convinced me)

Orange = slight/unsure

Since Ender is being super useful for town zombie or not, and falia isn't, and also my gut suddenly is all like "OOH FALI STOPPED ROLEPLAYING BECAUSE SHE LOST HER ORIGINAL CHARACTER TO THE ZOMBIES", and you know what I'm like with my gut:

vote Faliara

\o/

Also even if that ^ isn't the reason she stopped roleplaying, she's a quiet player who everyone seems to have just assumed to be town, so I'm betting zombies probably infected her last night at the latest. Ender is also a reasonable target for infection after he was super duper townie yesterday. But I'm just gonna vote Fal for now, might change later who knows!

 

[Mooglie]

My current suspects for town:
Ooglie101 (bit too quiet tho)

woah m8

Spoiler: hold the phone

but ye i lost motivation at some point so soz for being quiet but if i notice anything i'll still point it out (even tho everyone beats me to it)!!

 

[Infected_alien8_]

woah m8

Spoiler: hold the phone

but ye i lost motivation at some point so soz for being quiet but if i notice anything i'll still point it out (even tho everyone beats me to it)!!

Did you lose motivation because you became a ZOMBIE?!

 

[Mooglie]

Did you lose motivation because you became a ZOMBIE?!

i lost my motivation not my brain!!

 

[Enderfive]

No it wasn't sarcastic, I just found it interesting that your writing style changed when someone pointed fingers at you, and wasn't sure if it was a psychological thing, like panic manifesting into you changing your writing to act all chill #crazymindtheory

right, uh, i urge you to look at the way i have been writing thus far in the game and you'll see that i've been writing like this for quite a while

sure you're not a little bit too triggerhappy here?

 

[Mooglie]

what if inf is a zombie and then he tried to infect ender 2 nights ago but he didnt turn last night (ithink zombie-fication takes 2 nights or something) and now he wants to get rid of ender since he's zombie hunter or mafia and they cant turn to zombies!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Samlen]

Votecount - Appearing because it can

Infected_alien8_ - Vatumok (1/6)
Dessern5 - Enderfive (1/6)
Faliara - Infected_alien8_ (1/6)
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch and 5 to no-lynch

Deadline on December 29, 11pm GMT
If I get enough requests for an extension, I will extend IF there is a decent amount of activity in the next week.

 

[sessybessy]

My current suspects for mafia:
Geekenstein
Dessern
Timdood3

Could you tell me why you think I am mafia?

 

[Ltin]

Could you tell me why you think I am mafia?

You keep asking that question, and we keep telling you it is the actions (or lack therof) of your predecessor.

 

[Enderfive]

You keep asking that question, and we keep telling you it is the actions (or lack therof) of your predecessor.

that's hardly a valid reasom though

 

[Infected_alien8_]

right, uh, i urge you to look at the way i have been writing thus far in the game and you'll see that i've been writing like this for quite a while

sure you're not a little bit too triggerhappy here?

A friendly, entirely unofficial and unsanctioned reminder to submit your actions already, because the wait is driving me just slightly insane. Unless this is all Samlen's fault, in which case I apologize most heartily for any perceived aggressions.

I have other things I want to discuss, but before I do any of that, I just want to ask one thing.


What exactly is your win condition, Vatu?

Really? Do elaborate.

Right, but that's not a town win condition, that's the zombie win condition. So when you talk about you specifically being able to win with zombies as you are now, as you seem to have done, it kind of sets some alarms off in my mind. If you don't understand what I'm talking about, then here's Inffy's statement:
And here's your answer:


From this it honestly looks like you're saying that winning with the zombies already is your win condition, so while I'm not entirely sold on you being scum, it does seem like a pretty considerable possibility.

Right, uh, sorry for dropping off the face of the Earth like that, but the year ending kinda fucked me over school-wise, so I had to deal with that and then I was just altogether too tired to make an effort here. But I'm back now and I hope I can stay that way for now.

So, starting off with the thing I started this day off, I'll bring a close to the whole deal with Vatu's win condition on my end. I think he managed to sufficiently explain the whole win condition confusion, even if the explanation is somewhat peculiar. I can kind of see where he was coming from, although I still don't understand why he felt the need to consistently address himself as a potential zombie as well as a townie. It's true, of course, anyone could be a zombie, but personally I don't consider a possible win condition to be winning with the zombies. I'll think about that if I get zombiefied, so thinking about it now seems redundant and a little too considerate towards the possibility of being infected.

But that's just me. Different people have different ways of working things out for them, and if Vatu wants to think about every possibility, that's fine. Just based on this whole thing alone I don't think we can pass any judgement on him.


Another peculiar thing that caught my interest right at the beginning of the day was the Vatu-Ltin standoff, the one where Vatu kind of just dropped this:and then did nothing about it. The way I see it from this is that for whatever unknown reason, Ltin thought that both Vatu and Notty were in zombies with each other and figured he was going to be next, again for whatever unknown reason. This is supported in my opinion by this:While I cannot begin to understand why Ltin thought those things, I also don't see how this proves Ltin to be anything other than just paranoid. One interesting thing I did note, however, was the fact that Vatu claimed Notty agreed with his accusations in the inn and dared Ltin to confirm that, since Notty is now a confirmed townie. Ltin never did, and the whole standoff situation just kind of died out when I started prodding Vatu about his win condition. It makes me wonder just a little bit why Ltin never confirmed that (if he did, then I'm just blind and you can call me stupid).


The third thing that I wanted to point at was Mars' "slip", the one where he said the other mafia members had been relatively quiet and under the radar up until him saying they'd been quiet. When I look at it right now, it does still look like a slip to me, but more in the sense of "I'm mafia, why would I not lurk the way so many other mafiosi in many other games have", so I'm not entirely sure if we can deduce the identity of the other mafiosi just by looking at who's been lurking. Still, it's not a completely baseless tactic to use right now, so we can't rule it out completely.


Regarding the inn theory, which Inffy so gloriously rushed forward and then retracted as soon as he figured out that not everything in this game was according to his own deductions, I can only repeat other players in saying that I don't see much merit in it. Relying on inns to make a lynch has been very unreliable in the past, except for (I think) the first game in Blocktopia where the inns were used, GmK's Doomed Cruise. I don't see any reason for Samlen to use a simple pattern in the inns, especially since such a pattern could easily be exploited by the zombies. But since we're not really talking about that any more anyhow, then that's just a late comment on my part.


Moving on to opinions about people. When I look at the list of living players, the ones that immediately stand out to me as lurkers or inactive players are Jk, Fali and Geek. I don't suspect Fali of anything, mostly because she has been acting exactly the way I figured she would. Roleplaying, friendlyness and undecidedness are kind of her thing and she's been doing the first, while the second hampers the ability to scumhunt and the third doesn't really translate well into activity in a mafia game. Plus, I still feel like Mars was trying to set her up for a possible lynch later in the game and considering Mars flipped mafia, I sincerely doubt she could be mafia, which kind of narrows the possibilities for being scum down a bit.

Geek has barely said anything and Rune said even less, so I have been unable to formulate an opinion on her. Rune stated pretty clearly that the reason for his inactivity was due to personal reasons, so I don't think we can read much into his inactivity and while I don't know the reasons why Geek is staying quiet, too, and would like for her to speak up more, then it mostly feels to me like she doesn't have anything to say, not that she doesn't want to.

Jk is an interesting case. Considering past games, one would think he would be more active, and I see that other players seem to think so too, but I'm not so sure if that translates into him being scum. In the past games, I sort of remember Jk as a fairly active player even if he was scum (I can't really be bothered to check right now if that really is the case, but I trust my memory enough right now). Jk is a player whose strongest weapon, regardless of role, is his ability to make a very convincing argument and he has used that ability to its full extent as both a townie and scum, as far as I know. Keeping that in mind, it seems somewhat off for him to just lurk as he has largely done in this game. He's not as inactive as Fali and Rune/Geek, perhaps, but he's not really active either.

When he does say something, though, it's still as thought out and relevant as ever, not the kind of active lurking that I noticed in Mars. Of his nine posts in the game, four have moved the discussion forward, two were afterthoughts or corrections to posts he just made and three were joke posts at the beginning of the game. It feels like it's not that he wants to stay low, it's more like he just isn't that interested in how the game goes. If there's ever a role that makes experienced and typically active players feel like that, it's a role that puts much of the fate of the player into someone else's hands and doesn't really give any cool actions for them to play with, such as the villager. Now, we don't have a villager in the game right now, and even if we did and Jk was that, I'd still think that he would be more active. But we do have a Lone Survivor, a role that is quite literally dependent on someone else winning, a role that as far as we know doesn't have any interesting features to it (and if there are interesting features, they might be hidden from the player playing that role as well, as stated by Samlen). This is a role that I think would make Jk act the way he's been acting so far and when I did some digging, I found that Jk seems to subtly try and prevent the survivor from being attacked or perceived as a threat as well. Consider the following (interesting parts bolded):He's making it sound like he's theorising about the third party roles, but he's being fairly friendly towards the survivor and putting forward a theory which would make the survivor honestly pretty useful for the town. The way he says "if they even have abilities at all, I'm thinking of the survivor when I say that", makes me think that he is the survivor and doesn't know if he has any particular abilities, which would imply that his abilities are hidden from himself as well, if he even has any.

All in all, I think Jk is the Lone Survivor who's trying to not make himself a threat. That would also mean that every other player is either a townie or a scum, since the Oracle is dead.

I personally trust Tim right now, and Inffy as well, to a degree. Tim has been nothing but his usual calm self and hasn't really given me any reason to suspect him and Inffy just feels like he's a hyperactive townie who wants to get the game going and is grasping at anything that comes to his mind. Which is not a bad thing in itself, it just leads to the weird stuff such as the inn theory he had.

I'm not sure about Vatumok. On one hand, he's been saying confusing stuff right from the beginning of the game and the way he started this game off just confused me even further. Then again, simply being confusing to me isn't really worth a suspicion, so there's not much I can say about him. Every suspicion I've had on him has been explained away by him and so I don't really have much to go on.

Ooglie and Ltin have also been their usual selves in my opinion, nothing really stands out about them to me at a first glance.

The person I have the most problem with right now is Dessern.

Dessern seems to favour the same kind of active lurking that Mars did. He also defended Mars at first, later blaming it on a misunderstanding about the core of our suspicions. When it was pretty clear Mars was going to get lynched, he switched his vote.

These three things are the reasons I'm suspicious of him. Firstly, the active lurking. I explained this enough when I made the case for Mars to be lynched, so I don't think I have to do it again. Secondly, the way he defended Mars at first. The fact that he did it in the first place is enough to make me a little less trusting of him, considering Mars flipped scum, but he also tried to do it by using a strawman to misrepresent Tim's little tidbit about the slip as the core of both of our arguments against Mars, while ignoring pretty much the entire actual discussion we had going on at the time. Now, I can understand that sometimes people misunderstand arguments and Tim pointed out that the slip was very much not the only reason we were lynching Mars, and Dess accepted that, but still tried to represent the slip as the "pushing factor", in order to better defend Mars. I don't know about you guys, but this has my scumradar pointing pretty heavily towards Dess. Add to that the fact that once Mars being lynched was inevitable, he gave in without much reasoning and switched his vote to Mars, which is something that scum tends to do when confronted with the reality of their teammate being the one that's being lynched.

As it is, I can't really find a more fitting person to drop my vote on than Dess, so I'll do just that.

vote Dessern5

Looking back I do see you use this other way of typing sometimes but it's just in tiny posts/joke ones, so I guess I picked up on the change of style when you made a serious/insightful post using the jokey/tiny post format if that makes sense.

what if inf is a zombie and then he tried to infect ender 2 nights ago but he didnt turn last night (ithink zombie-fication takes 2 nights or something) and now he wants to get rid of ender since he's zombie hunter or mafia and they cant turn to zombies!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't think it takes two nights, you infect someone and then know about it the next night and I've been siding with ender all game why do you think I want to get rid of him

You keep asking that question, and we keep telling you it is the actions (or lack therof) of your predecessor.

that's hardly a valid reasom though

And not only the predecessor but of yours, Geek, too.

 

[Infected_alien8_]

Anyway as it stands, my top three suspects are Dess, Vat and Geek. Geek for just not being as participatory as she was before, I understand her point about having no suspicions but there's plenty going round and I find it difficult to understand she hasn't got at least one opinion, and I just think she's holding something back from us.

This was my reasoning, Geekenstein

 

[sessybessy]

This was my reasoning, Geekenstein

Ok ok.

The reason I haven't been participating as much as I have in previous games is because I joined practically mid-game, as a replacement. I am finding it hard to catch up with the whole story, I'm sort of catching up but not to the point where I can make a full on decision on who I think is mafia and zombie and town. I have a few things in place as to who I believe is town, mafia, and zombie but this is merely based off of 'bandwagoning' and other people's opinions. There is also the fact that Rune didn't really say much, which is being held against me but I guess we're just the same character but different people.

I also want to learn from the mistakes I made in the last game, I got super salty at some people and there wasn't really a page where I wasn't arguing with someone. There is also the reason that my opinions are based on other people and their opinions. I really have no opinions/suspicions on anyone at this moment.