The Red Scare [Game Over]

Infected_alien8_

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I never said that you stopped pushing for the lynch, just that it didn't go through.


^ It was an example using the Vig not saying that was the exact town PR you thought he was.


Whilst being mafia, getting rid of any town PR is the most beneficial course of action so I think you saw him as a threat 1) because you assumed he had a role of importance and 2) because he is our friend and would probably target you and find you out more easily and possibly target you if he was a position such as Vig.
But the whole basis of your theory was that I stopped pushing out of fear I'd be killed because I figured he was vigilante and so decided to nightkill him instead. But one vital part of this is made up by you, which means your theory is wrong.

And yes killing a PR is beneficial to Mafia but how the heck would I conclude that hip was a PR?

Is it just me who thinks foggy and inf could both be mafia?

Foggy seems very certain with his hypothesis that inf thought hip was vigilante, which tbh, does seem to have come from no where. To me it looks like foggy is overly determined to push for an inf lynch which makes me wonder if he knows something.

Foggy if you do know something about inf, if you are a cop role or something, would you mind sharing?
Yes because it's not like you're doing basically the same thing g as foggy, blindly tunneling me for 0 logical reason and failing to take on board the many, many points that counter yours
 

Aqua

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Yes because it's not like you're doing basically the same thing g as foggy, blindly tunneling me for 0 logical reason and failing to take on board the many, many points that counter yours
What, that you're acting in a really weird jumpy and accusation-y way whilst completely over reacting to small points suggesting your suspicion, like when I mentioned it's possible you were using reverse psychology.
 

Infected_alien8_

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What, that you're acting in a really weird jumpy and accusation-y way whilst completely over reacting to small points suggesting your suspicion, like when I mentioned it's possible you were using reverse psychology.
Quote the overreaction.

It's very possible I'm coming off as weird and passive aggressive but that's only because I'm getting frustated
 

Aqua

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Quote the overreaction.

Ngl there are more but quite busy atm, maybe if I'm free will have a better look. But the first page I turn to and I see this, you were being grilled by multiple people and seemed almost desperate to throw suspicion to me using the same point you had previously brought up over and over. The fact you underline it and put it in bold seems almost theatrical you drama nerd. If you were actually townie I odubt you'd try and shift focus onto someone like that, it seems desperate. IDK, I might be wrong, I haven't put much thought into this tbh.

ANYWAY POINT IS, UR ACTING SCUMMY AF NGL WITH UR HUNTER-ESQUE PLAY STYLE SO FUCK YOU SCUMMY MCSCUMFUCK
 

Nottykitten

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I felt like both mine and Infs posts explain it well enough, but according to your and aquas confusing ratings you don't seem to get it. I'm trying to look at your statements from a logical standpoint and what you said makes about 0 sense. So I'll try and explain it simply.

Reconstructed using letters you're saying the following statement: "If A and B, then C".
A = Inf thinks Hip is the vigilante.
B = Inf continues pushing for a lynch on Hip.
C = Inf will think hip gets suspicious and kills Inf during the night.

Thats litterally what you're saying right here: "Say for instance, Inffy thought that Hip was the Vigilante, that would mean that if Inf kept pushing for a lynch of Hip, he would get suspicious and night kill him.". You're trying to argue what Infs thoughtprocess was by saying that if Inf thinks Hip is the vig and Inf continues to push for a lynch on Hip, Inf will think hip is going to kill Inf during the night.

Keep in mind I've drawn these statements from your argument, so in the arguments you've provided Inf appearently has a deathwish. Why you ask? Well since he kept pushing for the lynch on Hip, and according to you that means he thinks Hip will kill him during the night. Why would Inf keep pushing for a lynch on Hip if he thought it'd be his death? I doubt Inf wants to die. If Inf truely thought that, then he wouldn't keep pushing for the lynch. Thus we can conclude there is something wrong here. This leaves us with two scenarios that explain what's wrong with the logic here. (No there are not more)
  1. This isn't how Infs mind works at all. Your idea of infs thought process being "If A and B, then C" is wrong, and Inf does not have this thought process. In his mind A and B do not result in C, and thus your argument is wrong and you can't argue Hips death has anything to do with Inf trying to save himself.
  2. This is how Infs mind works, and Inf would react in the way described in "If A and B then C". We KNOW for a fact that B is true(ctrl+f hips name through pages 1-12 if you don't believe it). Since this is how Infs mind works, either A or C or both have to be false otherwise you're trying to argue that even though Inf thinks pushing for a lynch on Hip is gonna get him killed, he did it anyways. Inf is not an idiot and does not have a deathwish, so yes we can conclude that either A or C HAS to be false in this scenario.
It's likely that we live in scenario two as the statement itself isn't that far of a grasp. Most people probably think that if they're pushing for a lynch on a vigilante they're likely going to get killed during the night. So I'd argue we live in scenario 2, but I'll explain why you're wrong in scenario 1 aswell.

There is another statement added to this that I hadn't mentioned yet which is also decently important to your argument. I'll give it the letter D. You're saying "If C then D". If I put the entire statement professionaly you'd get: "(A ∧ B) → C → D".
D = Inf kills Hip to save himself.

So you're saying that if Inf thinks Hip is going to kill him, he will kill Hip to try and save himself. A flaw in itself is that if Hip were truely the vig and was going to kill Inf, Inf would die anyways and thus there is no 'saving' at all, only a tie. Which is why I think the saving part is stupid in its entirety. In scenario 1 the entire statement is wrong as that is not Infs thought process, and if he doesn't think Hip is going to kill him why would he kill Hip to 'save himself' or kill hip in general? In scenario 1 here there is no connection you can draw to argue that Inf killed hip. The only connection is that Inf pushed for a lynch on Hip and Hip got killed by the Mafia. Other than that you can't argue that somehow this proves that Inf is mafia and therefor your argument is wrong in scenario 1.

So onto scenario 2. Like I said in scenario 2, we've deduced that either A or C has to be false. In order for C to be false, using the logic statement we have A also has to be false since C is true if A is true. Therefor in scenario two A has to be wrong. Inf did not think Hip was the vig therefor Inf had no reason to not keep pushing on a lynch on Hip. Inf did not think that Hip was going to kill him during the night, and because C is thus false Inf did not kill hip to 'save himself'. There is again no way you could argue that somehow Hips death proves Inf is Mafia as scenario 2 does not result in D.

TL;DR: Foggy's argument against Inf is flawed and wrong. Feel free to try and prove me wrong or tell me I missed something but I'm pretty sure everything I said was pure sound logic and theres nothing wrong with it. And inb4 you try to 'well maybe he thought Hip was another PR!1!!1!!', thats pure speculation and you can say that for litterally anyone. Truth is we don't know why Hip died, though if you're arguing Inf wanted him out of the game I could argue the exact same for Foggy and Aqua who as Mafia got voted alot by Hip last game.

Also I spend waay too much time on this send help.
 

Fog

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Notty, as I have said in earlier responses Inf said that Hip was acting 'strangely' which lead him to think that Hip was 'Mafia'. If Inffy was mafia, as I am very much suspecting he is then I do believe that he thinks that Hip was a PR - as I said in the post where I brought up the Idea of VIG that was pure speculation as to the role he believed Hip held.
I'm saying my theory is he is mafia and thought Hip was a Town PR role and tried to get him lynched
Say for instance, Inffy thought that Hip was the Vigilante,
well maybe he thought Hip was another PR!1!!1!!
^ so you are late to this argument
So you're saying that if Inf thinks Hip is going to kill him, he will kill Hip to try and save himself. A flaw in itself is that if Hip were truely the vig and was going to kill Inf, Inf would die anyways and thus there is no 'saving' at all, only a tie.
But if Hip was Vig and did kill Inffy, with the vigilante dead there would be fewer death options for the 4 remaining Mafia, and you have to remember that Mafia is a TEAM GAME and that by killing off Hip and 'sacrificing' himself he increases the chances for the rest of his team.
 

Nottykitten

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But if Hip was Vig and did kill Inffy, with the vigilante dead there would be fewer death options for the 4 remaining Mafia, and you have to remember that Mafia is a TEAM GAME and that by killing off Hip and 'sacrificing' himself he increases the chances for the rest of his team.
Except there would be no reason to push on Hip in the first place if he thought it lead to his death. Could of left it and just killed him during the night without dying himself in that case. So again his actions kinda disprove your theory of him thinking hip to be the vig.

Notty, as I have said in earlier responses Inf said that Hip was acting 'strangely' which lead him to think that Hip was 'Mafia'.
Quote that post of Inf my dear. Quote the one where he said Hip was acting strangely. (Underlined for importance ofcourse).

If Inffy was mafia, as I am very much suspecting he is then I do believe that he thinks that Hip was a PR - as I said in the post where I brought up the Idea of VIG that was pure speculation as to the role he believed Hip held.
Didnt seem like pure speculation when I asked you why you thought Inf killed hip to save himself. But I guess we've concluded then that he did not kill Hip to save himself. Which leaves your reason to vote for Inf to purely be "I think Inf thought Hip to be a PR and then killed him during the night!", to which I'm gonna say "I think Foggy thought Jivvi was a PR and therefor lynched Jivvi. He's now thinking the same of Infected!!!!" (also same for Aqua). Which really isn't an argument at all but a gut feeling, just like your reason for voting Inf. If you want to vote him since you have a gut feeling thats fine, after all my vote on Aqua is just the same, but you're trying really hard to make it seem like you have a solid case when you really don't.

#DefendInf2k17
 

Fog

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Quote that post of Inf my dear. Quote the one where he said Hip was acting strangely. (Underlined for importance ofcourse).
Also hipman500 what are your thoughts? Any suspicions? And why are you talking so little if you're innocent?
And yes, hip is quiet when he's scum and talkative when he's not, it's a thing that he's openly admitted to me before and it checks with all his games he's played too
Hip, why did you imply that day 0 means you can't have any reads? Why does it being day 0 mean you can't get any feels on anyone, especially this day 0 since its been more serious than usual id say. You managed to get feelings las game but now now. Almost as if you're too scared to out any suspicions because of the reprocussikns it might have because you're Mafia and that's how you behave as Mafia!!!!
we have a vigilante after all, so we can make up for losing a day's kill later on in the game if needs be. I mean I would like you or hip to be lynched to be honest but it doesn't look like anyone agrees with me
(and I'm like 80% sure he's mafia because IT'S HIP I KNOW HIM I KNOW WHAT HE'S LIKE WHEN HE'S SCUM *reminds you of how I said I knew foggy was mafia because we're friends and I was right*)
 

Nottykitten

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Do they work for you Nottykitten ?
Those are some nice quotes but they're not the quotes I was looking for. You specifically underlined this so it must be very important to you:

Notty, as I have said in earlier responses Inf said that Hip was acting 'strangely'
Infact none of those quotes suggest that Inf thought Hip was acting strange or weird in any way. That's probably because he said no such thing. He said that Hip was acting like he usually does when he's Mafia, nothing 'strange' about it. So really how can you base your suspicion that Inf thought Hip was a PR on something that doesn't exist?

I feel like you're just trying to make stuff up to 'justify' your vote on Inf, while you really have no other reason besides that you're Mafia. And really your reasons, which i've done my best to show how nonsensical they are, are nonsensical.
 

Fog

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Those are some nice quotes but they're not the quotes I was looking for. You specifically underlined this so it must be very important to you:


Infact none of those quotes suggest that Inf thought Hip was acting strange or weird in any way. That's probably because he said no such thing. He said that Hip was acting like he usually does when he's Mafia, nothing 'strange' about it. So really how can you base your suspicion that Inf thought Hip was a PR on something that doesn't exist?

I feel like you're just trying to make stuff up to 'justify' your vote on Inf, while you really have no other reason besides that you're Mafia. And really your reasons, which i've done my best to show how nonsensical they are, are nonsensical.
so the quote

'and I'm like 80% sure he's mafia because IT'S HIP I KNOW HIM I KNOW WHAT HE'S LIKE WHEN HE'S SCUM'

does not imply any suspicion from one player to another... good to know
 

Nottykitten

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so the quote

'and I'm like 80% sure he's mafia because IT'S HIP I KNOW HIM I KNOW WHAT HE'S LIKE WHEN HE'S SCUM'

does not imply any suspicion from one player to another... good to know
Wow I did not know suspicion on someone = thinking someone acts strangely. Good to know. Especially when that suspicion comes from thinking someone is acting not strangely and infact is acting like they usually act as Mafia.
or the fact that Hip was acting in a way different to usual to create such a response
Not really, thats the entire reason Inf was suspicious of hip. He was actualy JUST like usual when hes Mafia. Not playing different but the same as when he's Mafia. But hey sure keep saying nonsense ;)
 

Fog

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I personally find your arguments really hard to follow Nottykitten, it's probably just me and the fact I am so sure that Inf is Mafia that my brain is just rejecting everything you say in retaliation. Maybe when I have been to work and come back I will be in a better mindset to attempt to re-read
 

Enderfive

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yeah i haven't had the time to catch up with this properly right now but i will say that notty is being nitpicky to the point of absurdity right now

it was pretty straightforward to me that when foggy talked about inf thinking hip acted strangely, then he was referring to the whole playstyle argument he'd had against him day 0, even if "strange" wasn't the precise word he used
 
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