The Red Scare [Game Over]
- Thread starter Ltin
- Start date
Just in game or in general?
Honestly he's not really been round too much and I mean he doesn't really overly contribute when he is playing so I don't notice anything too strange rn but that could change
Enderfive
sarcasm incarnate
Okay, here's what I think.
4. Unusual_dood
5. TheWeakGuy48_
12. Infected_alien8
13. Nottykitten
16. Mulbery
I'm definitely townreading Caff right now. Ooglie seems to be acting like I'd expect him to as
a townie as well.
I have no opinion whatsoever about Oak, Samlen and Aqua. Samlen and Oak because they
haven't been active at all, Aqua because he acts like a moron, which is what he always
does, regardless of allegiance. Because of that, I don't think one way or the other about them, and I'll have to see more of them to come to any conclusion regarding them.
Now that we've got those five out of the way, things get interesting. Regarding HK, Foggy and Iggish, I'm having a hard time understanding their points sometimes, and at other times I can definitely agree with some others about them not making any sense at all. However, I'm unsure if this is because they're new to the game, can't express themselves very well or if it's because they're mafia. In my experience, the people that are barely making any sense, but are aggressive as players, aren't always mafia, especially when they're newer players. Due to that, I'd withhold judgement on them right now and see how they play in the following days.
HOWEVER. All three of them jumped pretty quickly on Inf after the day start. It was almost peculiar to read back and see how they (and Aqua, but behaviour like that is par for the course for him, as I already said) attacked Inf almost immediately after day start, bringing the whole Hipman kill thing as their argument. I believe I explained my thoughts on the matter, but to reiterate, if I was Inf, I'd have stayed the fuck away from Hip, because the connection would've been too obvious and the easiest thing for any mafia to do in regards to the nightkills is to try and go for the ones that don't have any obvious grievances against them. I'll touch on the Hip nightkill later on when I share my thoughts on Inf, but as far as I'm concern
4. Unusual_dood
5. TheWeakGuy48_
12. Infected_alien8
13. Nottykitten
16. Mulbery
I'm definitely townreading Caff right now. Ooglie seems to be acting like I'd expect him to as
a townie as well.
I have no opinion whatsoever about Oak, Samlen and Aqua. Samlen and Oak because they
haven't been active at all, Aqua because he acts like a moron, which is what he always
does, regardless of allegiance. Because of that, I don't think one way or the other about them, and I'll have to see more of them to come to any conclusion regarding them.
Now that we've got those five out of the way, things get interesting. Regarding HK, Foggy and Iggish, I'm having a hard time understanding their points sometimes, and at other times I can definitely agree with some others about them not making any sense at all. However, I'm unsure if this is because they're new to the game, can't express themselves very well or if it's because they're mafia. In my experience, the people that are barely making any sense, but are aggressive as players, aren't always mafia, especially when they're newer players. Due to that, I'd withhold judgement on them right now and see how they play in the following days.
HOWEVER. All three of them jumped pretty quickly on Inf after the day start. It was almost peculiar to read back and see how they (and Aqua, but behaviour like that is par for the course for him, as I already said) attacked Inf almost immediately after day start, bringing the whole Hipman kill thing as their argument. I believe I explained my thoughts on the matter, but to reiterate, if I was Inf, I'd have stayed the fuck away from Hip, because the connection would've been too obvious and the easiest thing for any mafia to do in regards to the nightkills is to try and go for the ones that don't have any obvious grievances against them. I'll touch on the Hip nightkill later on when I share my thoughts on Inf, but as far as I'm concern
I feel that Inf is playing you all with this reverse psychology bull, I mean when I played last game I felt that we targeted those who had suspicion on us or we were worried about and then could easily play the 'I've been framed card'
Mhm honestly I have a hard time understanding why you have put me together with Foggy and Iggy (mostly Foggy). Yes I have been giving Inffy a hard time, but he has given me a hard time as well. Besides I gave my opinion on hipman lynch once at start of day, I didnt see really think Inffy had anything to do with, just didnt agree with his vigilante theory, and havent mentioned it since that 1 discussion, so I really dont see why you are comparing me to Foggy.
Enderfive
sarcasm incarnate
Before I begin, the beginning of the post is more or less copy-pasted from the unfinished draft that I accidentally posted. Also, there are loads of occasions where I could've quoted, but chose not to, because I'm on mobile right now and the time I've spent on this post would've been an hour longer.
I'm definitely townreading Caff right now. Ooglie seems to be acting like I'd expect him to as a townie as well.
I have no opinion whatsoever about Oak, Samlen and Aqua. Samlen and Oak because they haven't been active at all, Aqua because he acts like a moron, which is what he always does, regardless of allegiance. Because of that, I don't think one way or the other about them, and I'll have to see more of them to come to any conclusion regarding them.
Now that we've got those five out of the way, things get interesting. Regarding HK, Foggy and Iggish, I'm having a hard time understanding their points sometimes, and at other times I can definitely agree with some others about them not making any sense at all. However, I'm unsure if this is because they're new to the game, can't express themselves very well or if it's because they're mafia. In my experience, the people that are barely making any sense, but are aggressive as players, aren't always mafia, especially when they're newer players. Due to that, I'd withhold judgement on them right now and see how they play in the following days.
HOWEVER. All three of them jumped pretty quickly on Inf after the day start. It was almost peculiar to read back and see how they (and Aqua, but behaviour like that is par for the course for him, as I already said) attacked Inf almost immediately after day start, bringing the whole Hipman kill thing as their argument. I believe I explained my thoughts on the matter, but to reiterate, if I was Inf, I'd have stayed the fuck away from Hip, because the connection would've been too obvious and the easiest thing for any mafia to do in regards to the nightkills is to try and go for the ones that don't have any obvious grievances against them. I'll touch on the Hip nightkill later on when I share my thoughts on Inf, but as far as I'm concerned, the most likely thing that could've happened with the nightkill is that it was the mafia kill, which makes Inf less likely to be the culprit in my opinion. It definitely feels like the three of them are biased against Inf, but whether that is because they are mafia buddies that wanted to take Inf out for being an active townie or because they feel more inclined to attack him based on previous acquaintance, I'm not sure.
Anyway, moving on to Mulb. Most of what I feel about him I've already said. Don't really have anything definitive against him, but most of what he's said over the course of the game (which isn't a lot, honestly), feels exactly like it came from a not-so-experienced mafioso who's trying to make it look like they're useful while still contributing only the bare minimum. Because of that, Mulb is a certain FoS for me.
And this is where things turn into a full-blown, Flat Earth-tier, Illuminati levels of shady conspiracy theory. It's very hard to find anything incriminating between TWG, Unu, Notty and Inf, since they've all done a great job at deflecting suspicions and generally making themselves look sane, as opposed to Iggish, Foggy and HK (no offence). The thing that really got my attention was not how they acted when it came to suspicions on themselves, the thing that really got my attention was how they banded together and defended Inf after he started getting some heat. Notty responded to the initial push on Inf right after day start, going with a nice mocking tone against the push and throwing suspicion on Foggy instead. Then they all (with the exception of Inf) sort of calmed down, with Notty and TWG not making any posts at all and Unu just sort of keeping it in our minds that he has a bigger post coming up. There was one single post from Notty between her initial reaction to the Inf push and the big post that Unu made on page 17, but seeing how that was just her telling Inf to get help after he had ideas after eating sausages (or something like that), I didn't really count that as game-related.
Then Unu came with his big post, essentially making points in defense of Inf and throwing suspicion in Iggish's way. As I noted before, Iggish was one of the three people that were pushing Inf at that time. One last thing Unu did was to state he was townreading Notty. And right after that, Inf mentioned in his response how he considered Unu a strong player due to that post, implying he supported his points. TWG then made a post in support of Unu's points against Iggish.
Call me crazy, but I'm starting to see some real connections here.
And then I put my vote on Inf and things got so confusing I'm only now starting to understand what some people were saying.
Unu responded to my post, reinforcing his suspicion on Iggish, but adding me to that list as well. The reasons for suspecting me were flimsy at best, if I'm being honest and looking back it kind of feels like he was first and foremost wanting to throw suspicion on me after I voted Inf and only thought of the reasons after. Next substantial post from the trio of Notty, Unu and TWG came from the latter, and what do you know, the suspects were me, Aqua, HK, Foggy and Iggish, in other words, all the people that were pushing Inf. Meanwhile, TWG also expressed the opinion that Inf was innocent. One outlier from his post was him being suspicious of Unu, but that wasn't expressed as firmly as the other suspicions, so it's entirely possible in my opinion that this was there just for show.
Notty then posted with a vote on Aqua, Unu still kept defending Inf and throwing shade on me, although after my megapost that answered all of his grievances, he didn't really have much ammo left. Notty made a few short posts essentially ridiculing the people voting Inf and a few longer posts arguing against Foggy, before getting strangely hung up on wording issues for a bit. The argument with Foggy itself was fine, actually, but the wording thing really felt like Notty wanted to take every possible reason, no matter how small, to defend Inf and put suspicion on those pushing him. After the idea of compromising to vote TWG popped up, Notty slightly defended TWG, saying she'd rather lynch Aqua than TWG, and then saying the same about Foggy and TWG in a follow-up.
There may be more examples of this whole #defendinf2k17 phenomenon that I missed, and I'm not saying it's confined to these four. And the beauty of it all is that a lot of the reasons for voting Inf that cropped up were fairly weak. Valid, perhaps, but weak nonetheless, so it's not unthinkable for a townie to defend Inf. Caff, for example, who I'm townreading, has also been defending him. The thing that really made Notty, TWG and Unu stand out for me was the way they really started posting things only after Inf started getting heat, and the way that defending Inf is pretty much all they've done all day, with other matters getting much less attention. But again, this can be simply because that's what most of the day has been focused on, which is why it's such a good play from them, if they do turn out to be mafia. What really puts them above suspicious for me to the status as a potential team is the way they've been bouncing their arguments off each other, attacking all the same people and reinforcing each other at the same time. It's a bold strategy for a mafia to take and I'm sure their response is going to (or maybe not, since I'm already mentioning this before they have a chance to bring it up themselves) point out the fact that it would be dumb or dangerous for mafiosi to be collaborating and teaming so brazenly, but that's part of the reason why it would actually be a smart strategy for a mafia team to utilise, not to mention what I've already mentioned about defending Inf being possible for townies as well.
Do note that all of this suggests that they're a team, and since there's only one team with more than two members that all know each other, then that's the team I'm assuming it is, namely, the mafia. If one of them flips innocent, then the likelihood of being mafia goes down for all of the remaining members of this hypothetical team. Quick note about Iggish, Foggy and HK at this point, since the argument could be made that they're teaming too, against Inf: well, not really. They've been just as eager to throw suspicion on other people and each other, whereas between Notty, Inf, TWG and Unu, I've mostly only noticed them placing suspicion on the people that attacked Inf.
As for Inf himself, there are a couple of other little things that make me raise eyebrows in addition to the whole teaming with Notty, TWG and Unu bit. First, I do still feel just a tiny bit off about his playstyle, second, the way he's constantly been placing omgus foses and votes suggests that he's biased against those who put suspicion on him, although whether that is because he's simply frustrated or because he's scum, is anyone's guess. While I don't think it too likely that he would've killed Hip as a mafioso, then I did notice how he was relatively certain that it wasn't the mafia who killed Hip at all, and instead the Vig might have killed him. Considering how a mafia kill would be a lot more likely, I can't help but wonder if he knows more about this than we do and was able to make a more educated guess. And yes, it is also possible that Inf is a mafia and did kill Hip, purely so he could claim it as too obvious and thus make himself look more innocent, since, honestly, the whole framing thing was the first thing on his mind while I didn't really think of it before he mentioned it on the thread, which might suggest a defense prepared ahead of the night results, but that's getting a bit complicated and I've always figured that the simplest explanation is usually the true one.
In conclusion, I'm willing to go with the TWG lynch for now seeing how I find him suspicious anyway, but I'm definitely FoSing Mulb, Notty, Unu and Inf right noe as well. If TWG or any of the other three should flip town, I'll be less inclined to believe the rest are mafia, if any of them flips maf, I'll be more inclined.
For now, though:
vote TWG
I'm definitely townreading Caff right now. Ooglie seems to be acting like I'd expect him to as a townie as well.
I have no opinion whatsoever about Oak, Samlen and Aqua. Samlen and Oak because they haven't been active at all, Aqua because he acts like a moron, which is what he always does, regardless of allegiance. Because of that, I don't think one way or the other about them, and I'll have to see more of them to come to any conclusion regarding them.
Now that we've got those five out of the way, things get interesting. Regarding HK, Foggy and Iggish, I'm having a hard time understanding their points sometimes, and at other times I can definitely agree with some others about them not making any sense at all. However, I'm unsure if this is because they're new to the game, can't express themselves very well or if it's because they're mafia. In my experience, the people that are barely making any sense, but are aggressive as players, aren't always mafia, especially when they're newer players. Due to that, I'd withhold judgement on them right now and see how they play in the following days.
HOWEVER. All three of them jumped pretty quickly on Inf after the day start. It was almost peculiar to read back and see how they (and Aqua, but behaviour like that is par for the course for him, as I already said) attacked Inf almost immediately after day start, bringing the whole Hipman kill thing as their argument. I believe I explained my thoughts on the matter, but to reiterate, if I was Inf, I'd have stayed the fuck away from Hip, because the connection would've been too obvious and the easiest thing for any mafia to do in regards to the nightkills is to try and go for the ones that don't have any obvious grievances against them. I'll touch on the Hip nightkill later on when I share my thoughts on Inf, but as far as I'm concerned, the most likely thing that could've happened with the nightkill is that it was the mafia kill, which makes Inf less likely to be the culprit in my opinion. It definitely feels like the three of them are biased against Inf, but whether that is because they are mafia buddies that wanted to take Inf out for being an active townie or because they feel more inclined to attack him based on previous acquaintance, I'm not sure.
Anyway, moving on to Mulb. Most of what I feel about him I've already said. Don't really have anything definitive against him, but most of what he's said over the course of the game (which isn't a lot, honestly), feels exactly like it came from a not-so-experienced mafioso who's trying to make it look like they're useful while still contributing only the bare minimum. Because of that, Mulb is a certain FoS for me.
And this is where things turn into a full-blown, Flat Earth-tier, Illuminati levels of shady conspiracy theory. It's very hard to find anything incriminating between TWG, Unu, Notty and Inf, since they've all done a great job at deflecting suspicions and generally making themselves look sane, as opposed to Iggish, Foggy and HK (no offence). The thing that really got my attention was not how they acted when it came to suspicions on themselves, the thing that really got my attention was how they banded together and defended Inf after he started getting some heat. Notty responded to the initial push on Inf right after day start, going with a nice mocking tone against the push and throwing suspicion on Foggy instead. Then they all (with the exception of Inf) sort of calmed down, with Notty and TWG not making any posts at all and Unu just sort of keeping it in our minds that he has a bigger post coming up. There was one single post from Notty between her initial reaction to the Inf push and the big post that Unu made on page 17, but seeing how that was just her telling Inf to get help after he had ideas after eating sausages (or something like that), I didn't really count that as game-related.
Then Unu came with his big post, essentially making points in defense of Inf and throwing suspicion in Iggish's way. As I noted before, Iggish was one of the three people that were pushing Inf at that time. One last thing Unu did was to state he was townreading Notty. And right after that, Inf mentioned in his response how he considered Unu a strong player due to that post, implying he supported his points. TWG then made a post in support of Unu's points against Iggish.
Call me crazy, but I'm starting to see some real connections here.
And then I put my vote on Inf and things got so confusing I'm only now starting to understand what some people were saying.
Unu responded to my post, reinforcing his suspicion on Iggish, but adding me to that list as well. The reasons for suspecting me were flimsy at best, if I'm being honest and looking back it kind of feels like he was first and foremost wanting to throw suspicion on me after I voted Inf and only thought of the reasons after. Next substantial post from the trio of Notty, Unu and TWG came from the latter, and what do you know, the suspects were me, Aqua, HK, Foggy and Iggish, in other words, all the people that were pushing Inf. Meanwhile, TWG also expressed the opinion that Inf was innocent. One outlier from his post was him being suspicious of Unu, but that wasn't expressed as firmly as the other suspicions, so it's entirely possible in my opinion that this was there just for show.
Notty then posted with a vote on Aqua, Unu still kept defending Inf and throwing shade on me, although after my megapost that answered all of his grievances, he didn't really have much ammo left. Notty made a few short posts essentially ridiculing the people voting Inf and a few longer posts arguing against Foggy, before getting strangely hung up on wording issues for a bit. The argument with Foggy itself was fine, actually, but the wording thing really felt like Notty wanted to take every possible reason, no matter how small, to defend Inf and put suspicion on those pushing him. After the idea of compromising to vote TWG popped up, Notty slightly defended TWG, saying she'd rather lynch Aqua than TWG, and then saying the same about Foggy and TWG in a follow-up.
There may be more examples of this whole #defendinf2k17 phenomenon that I missed, and I'm not saying it's confined to these four. And the beauty of it all is that a lot of the reasons for voting Inf that cropped up were fairly weak. Valid, perhaps, but weak nonetheless, so it's not unthinkable for a townie to defend Inf. Caff, for example, who I'm townreading, has also been defending him. The thing that really made Notty, TWG and Unu stand out for me was the way they really started posting things only after Inf started getting heat, and the way that defending Inf is pretty much all they've done all day, with other matters getting much less attention. But again, this can be simply because that's what most of the day has been focused on, which is why it's such a good play from them, if they do turn out to be mafia. What really puts them above suspicious for me to the status as a potential team is the way they've been bouncing their arguments off each other, attacking all the same people and reinforcing each other at the same time. It's a bold strategy for a mafia to take and I'm sure their response is going to (or maybe not, since I'm already mentioning this before they have a chance to bring it up themselves) point out the fact that it would be dumb or dangerous for mafiosi to be collaborating and teaming so brazenly, but that's part of the reason why it would actually be a smart strategy for a mafia team to utilise, not to mention what I've already mentioned about defending Inf being possible for townies as well.
Do note that all of this suggests that they're a team, and since there's only one team with more than two members that all know each other, then that's the team I'm assuming it is, namely, the mafia. If one of them flips innocent, then the likelihood of being mafia goes down for all of the remaining members of this hypothetical team. Quick note about Iggish, Foggy and HK at this point, since the argument could be made that they're teaming too, against Inf: well, not really. They've been just as eager to throw suspicion on other people and each other, whereas between Notty, Inf, TWG and Unu, I've mostly only noticed them placing suspicion on the people that attacked Inf.
As for Inf himself, there are a couple of other little things that make me raise eyebrows in addition to the whole teaming with Notty, TWG and Unu bit. First, I do still feel just a tiny bit off about his playstyle, second, the way he's constantly been placing omgus foses and votes suggests that he's biased against those who put suspicion on him, although whether that is because he's simply frustrated or because he's scum, is anyone's guess. While I don't think it too likely that he would've killed Hip as a mafioso, then I did notice how he was relatively certain that it wasn't the mafia who killed Hip at all, and instead the Vig might have killed him. Considering how a mafia kill would be a lot more likely, I can't help but wonder if he knows more about this than we do and was able to make a more educated guess. And yes, it is also possible that Inf is a mafia and did kill Hip, purely so he could claim it as too obvious and thus make himself look more innocent, since, honestly, the whole framing thing was the first thing on his mind while I didn't really think of it before he mentioned it on the thread, which might suggest a defense prepared ahead of the night results, but that's getting a bit complicated and I've always figured that the simplest explanation is usually the true one.
In conclusion, I'm willing to go with the TWG lynch for now seeing how I find him suspicious anyway, but I'm definitely FoSing Mulb, Notty, Unu and Inf right noe as well. If TWG or any of the other three should flip town, I'll be less inclined to believe the rest are mafia, if any of them flips maf, I'll be more inclined.
For now, though:
vote TWG
Enderfive
sarcasm incarnate
i put you three together since you did kind of jump on inf right at the day start and i kind of have a similar opinion of all you three: could be scum, could just be newer player that doesn't express themself in a way that i'm used to seeing, therefore it's hard for me to consider you town and equally as hard to consider you maf
I actually quite enjoyed reading that, so thanks Its quite nice to see an argument I can follow (reading back mine I'm like 'oh I see I didn't make sense there but eh')
The only problem I have with your entire thing is the fact that you are choosing to vote TWG I mean from what I read I would say your main suspicions lie with Inf & Notty, and if anything they are more experienced Mafia players and I believe that they would be more dangerous to keep alive (although you could argue that they would be more beneficial alive). I'm not going to force you to change your vote, merely to weigh up the pros and cons and see where that leaves you.
Also, can I ask what the OMGUS actually stands for because you keep using the term and I want your definition so that I can read it how you intend for it to be read, thx
Nottykitten
Nomnomnom kitteh!
Like you said, the argument could be made that Foggy, Iggish and Aqua are teaming(though you had HK instead of aqua). I believe this to be the case and because of that I'm defending Inf since people might otherwise think 'wow 3 people think Inf is worth lynching that must mean Inf is scummy'. I honestly don't trust everyone to see through these lies of them(FAKE NEWS) or judge Inf well for themselves. And since I believe Inf is town I naturally want to help these people see the light and not make a mistake.
You're quite right I've been relatively silent for a while, and I didn't feel the need to interfere untill I started seeing the patterns and the flawed arguments of Foggy. I see why you'd think I'm teaming with Inf, which is fair since I am defending him pretty hard. I however find the connection with Weak/Unu pretty weak to call teaming, even with Inf.
A prime new reason I want to refrain from lynching Weak today is because Aqua seems pretty willing to jump on him and like I said before I don't trust him one bit. Whomever we lynch today, I think the Vig should be going for Aqua/Foggy tonight and hope the doc will be wise enough not to protect them.