Interesting. I looked back over the last day and I found something.
Okay so, first, HK jumps into the day, and says that he didn't visit Notty.
Myuser then asks him who he visited instead of Notty.
HKCaper You claimed not to have visited notty last night, but you never said who you did visit. It seems to me like this might be important.
This in itself is pretty suspicious since myuser is basically asking HK to claim PR already. It was very possible HK was vanilla townie and so didn't visit anyone, but myuser seems to go with the assumption that he did visit someone and ask who.
HK replies with this, saying he doesn't think it's a good idea he says who, which I agree with.
There are a two scenarios here, which I will get into a bit:
1. My role doesnt involve visiting at all
If I cannot visit people, I cant possibly have visited Notty, which means she must be lying.
2. I visited someone else
If I visited someone else, it goes down to what my role is exactly, and who I visited, to clear out the possibility of a bus driver (which doesnt really fits in the whole spaceship scene in my opinion anyway, I mean the role and the name, not just the name).
For both scenarios, claiming would clear up a lot of the confusion. However, to prevent giving mafia too much information (and possibly a claimchain), I am going to hold of from claiming for now. Also, I think there is enough evidence pointing towards Notty to lynch her for now.
Then, TWG comes in and asks for HK to claim who he visited, again asking for a PR claim, which tbh I'd find weird but he's dead and town so I have to dismiss this.
Just tell us who you visited, without saying your role.
Then, HK says, once again.
I am not going to say anything about my role for now, maybe later when more people had time to read up on the whole situation.
Then we have this conversation, where TWG asks for him to claim again, myuser suddenly appears townie and asks him not to claim, but simultaneously asks for a name of who he visited, so indirectly asking if he's a PR, basically, which now I look back on it, seems a bit odd. I ask for a very vague sense of how HK can back up what he's saying, and whether or not by him claiming, it will be confirmed Notty is a liar, or it will be his word against someone elses again. HK eventually claims PR, saying he can visit someone. Note, I didn't ask for this, but looking back I suppose there wasn't really much else HK could have said, but at the time I didn't know that.
I swear, if claiming is what it takes to convince you all Notty is scum, I will do it. But don't complain to me about it afterwards, if I started a massclaim.
Claim your role, claim it now. Do it
I don't think anyone has asked you to claim? I'm highly suggesting you don't claim, but you know what your role is, and what information you have, so I suggest you play your role to the best of your knowledge and ability and employ the best strategy you see fit.
-----while I was typing this TWG asked you for your role. If it doesn't help the town don't do it.
All I'm asking from you is a simple name: Who did you visit. Just list a player, or say you have no night visit. If you think this gives too much information publicly available to help the town, then be cautious, but just remember the information can help town players too.
Telling this would give away too much information, and will only help town in the sense that it will 'prove' that Notty is scum.
Hk, can you say in what way it 'proves' Notty is mafia - is it just going to be your word against theirs again or is there something more solid, because if there's something more solid and you think the pros of claiming outweigh the information it gives to mafia then you should probably claim, otherwise you could die before we get that information and that'd just be lame. Otherwise I'd say don't claim because it won't add anything other than more of your word against theirs and the mafia will just get more information which is bad and will make us very sad.
Well ye, if I claim it is still going to be 'do people believe my claim', but I do think it would be more likely that i am telling the truth and notty is lying.
Can you give any more information on why that will be, without giving too much information for the mafia to see?
(Meaning don't claim but explain)
All I can say is, if I claim and everyone believes my role, it will make clear that it is 100% impossible Notty is telling the truth.
Also, I have a way to back up my claim (then again everything can be questioned).
Can you give a very vague idea of how you can back up your claim, in order to ride horses in Minecraft they need to be tame?
I guess I can give something away,
My role does in fact involve visiting, and the person who I did visit could in theory back up my claim.
Then, another interesting thing.
The conversation goes on, where I'm basically making sure I've understood correctly that HK can genuinely 100% prove notty is lying. I don't ask for information of his role, I just ask that he's sure his claims can be backed up and that he's right in his conclusions, which does give a tiny bit of information about his role but it's so minimum I don't think it matters.
Can that person back up your claim for certain and for sure, when people sleep sometimes they snore?
It will still be, do people believe me, but someone will have to CC me to make me look scummy.
But that person who you said could confirm your role, is that for certain or is there a chance that person won't be able to confirm you, because if there's someone else in the game who can back up what you say and confirm Notty's lying it will mean there's like 4 people against Notty's word, throw seeds to feed a bird.
Also, if you do claim and that person confirms you, is there still a chance of crazy mechanics/other roles interfering and giving an explanation for it or dos it 100% confirm Notty is bad, like a violent and abusive and evil granddad?
You've made it clear you're a PR now so I guess you need to decide how important it is for town for you to withhold any more information, and how helpful it will actually be to claim - if, after claiming, there's someone in the game who can make it 100% certain you didn't visit notty and also negate any possibility that other roles or shenanigans happened and confirm for CERTAIN that Notty is mafia, and your role isn't that great anyway, I'd suggest claiming, but it's up to you of course, much like the choice of using an umbrella or not when it is raining.
It will 100% prove Notty is lying scum, and if I am not CC'd it will also prove my role. No shenanigans possible.
And there's someone out there who can 100% confirm your story too, ghosts are scary unless they say boo?
Yes, but they dont know my name, so it will still be based of not being CC'd.
After this, this is where me and myuser split paths.
Myuser is satisfied with HK's answer that he can 100% prove his claims and there are, quote, 'No shenanigans possible'. I, however, am sceptical, and so ask for more. It's worth noting that at this point, HK had already claimed PR (a visiting role) and all of my questions were simply trying to understand and confirm HK's claims, making sure that he wasn't missing anything out in his head.
Thank you. This is what I wanted to hear, now we know there's at least some information backing it and not just a theory of yours.
I'll consider voting Notty but it will have to wait until after I get off work.
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Hmm, well forgive me but I find it unlikely that you have some claim that will make it so there's 100% no shenanigans possible, so could you somehow give a very vague sense (not revealing anything about your role) of how you know there's no shenanigans possible please, I dislike eating large portions of cheese?
I am going to tell you again, I know it might seem a bit odd, but it 100% proves Notty is lying. Anything I'd say more about it, would give away my role, and I'd rather not out it to the mafia.
So there's absolutely no way that, for example, notty was visited by someone who skewed her results to make it seem like you visited her, and also visited by someone who made her seem mafia on reports, I have some lemonade do you want to try a sample?
Unless there is a role that will make the person he/she visits show up on investigations appear mafia, and also disguises him/herself as another player in the process, there is no way this happend.
So it's impossible that there are two people, one who makes someone appear guilty, another who randomizes investigative results, and both visited Notty, not that I think this is likely but I'm just trying to make sure you're right in saying it 100% proves Notty is mafia because that just seems incredibly unlikely to me, a bit like someone with no mouth drinking from a cup of tea.
well if we go into details like that, I guess you can say it's never 100% sure that Notty is mafia.
However, something really unlikely needs to have happend for the situation to make sense in another way, a situation where Notty is telling the truth.
What is more likely:
-Notty is lying and is actually scum. I did not visit Notty last night, and Foggy and Arelic are telling the truth about getting a report on Notty saying she is mafia.
Or,
-I visited someone else. Notty is 'tracker' and was visited by one or more players who firsly made her show up as mafia in investigations. In addition, Notty said she could choose a player and it would show her who he/she visited that night. She happend to choose me for some reason. Now, what came back to her was that I visited her. So someone has a role that can manipulate the information players get back from investigating. So then someone else visited her (or nobody), but someone manipulated the information so what came back was that I did visit her?!?!?
I am trying to make sense of that last one, but I just cant figure it out in my head, thats how little sense it makes. I know the second option might seem confusing, so dont be afraid to ask further on that one, maybe we can figure out another option to this sitiuation together. Or maybe Notty is just mafia, and we should lynch her.
I mean I agree with you that it's unlikely that some other scenario happened and it's most likely that Notty is mafia but I find it a bit weird that you claimed to be 100% certain notty is mafia and then when pressed further suddenly you're not 100% certain and it's just "unlikely" that she's innocent, but anyway I need to go eat because I've not eaten all day and I feel like my brain is a pool of air, and soon my stomach will be growling like a bear. I'll come back later with more thoughts and maybe a vote, but for now I declare I am suspicious of Notty as well as the goat.
Though of course I forget Notty is uncc tracker and so that makes it more confusing, fall over and you'll get a bruising.
That is when I become suspicious of HK for contradicting himself.
So, in summary:
EVENT: HK claims Notty is lying.
Myuser (alongside TWG) pushes for HK to claim PR.
I ask whether or not HK claiming will actually prove anything, or if it's just going to be his word against someone else's again, and I ask for very vague information.
EVENT: Hk claims PR. He says he can 100% confirm Notty is a liar.
Myuser thanks him and seems to believe him.
I am skeptical and ask for how he can be so sure, without giving too much information to the mafia.
After this little analysis you guys can make your own conclusions of course but I'm pretty sure this works as both a defence for myself and also highlights some interesting stuff about myuser, who, meanwhile, is asking Unu to claim PR or not. Seems like myuser enjoys making people claim this game.
Meanwhile my suspicions on Unu (as well as myuser) are cementing. Mostly just vibe stuff again, but, usually, I like to think of unu as this:
His posts are usually very solid and concrete. He will point out a fact, then another fact, then lay a conclusion on top of those facts. He'll go through every single detail, leaving no gaps, sometimes stating the absolute obvious that noone else bothered to say to make sure all of his points are 100% concrete. It's like building a brick staircase.
This game, however, I personally don't see any of that. I don't think he's even quoted anyone this entire game to back up any of his points, which he'd usually do, and I kind of see him just doing little green lazer beams of points, like this, instead:
I'm not sure if any of this makes any sense to anyone else, and probably not, but oh well.
I mean just look at his post where he says that after re-reading yesterday, he's more suspicious of me because I wanted 'way more than what was necessary', which I disagree with, and if he genuinely did look back on yesterday I think he'd disagree with that statement too. He also says I caused HK to die, which again, I don't believe to be the case. The vibes are strong on this one.
My suspicions today are mainly going towards Infected. Since last day, I have gotten more suspicious of Infected especially when I read through the previous day again. It seems to me like he wants to know way more than what was necessary, and I think it could have caused HKCaper to die.
So my suspicions are myuser and unusual_dood at this point, with slight dots of uncertainty/suspicion bouncing on others, like Mulb as I said earlier. Jkang has also been pretty quiet, but I don't remember if that's unusual or not. I'm gonna go ahead and say I town-read oog right now since he's more directly involved with other people (e.g. rating posts, talking to people directly) than he usually is when he's mafia (from what I've noticed), although his silence on day 1 seemed weird to me, his explanation in our PM chat was that everyone had said everything there was to say and he wasn't sure what to say, which I guess I can believe for now at least.
I'm gonna wait for Ender's analysis and then I'm probably going to place my vote.
Also,
all I'm going to say is that I had a plan that would 100% lead us to a mafia if the pattern I'd pointed out(where all the 1st class enlisted were power roles and the 2nd class were vanilla roles) had been true for all of those ranks.
Don't answer if this gives too much away to mafia, but how does knowing who has a power role or not help town out to see who is mafia, and why, if you were town, would you point out such a thing you had noticed for everyone to see, which basically stops people from claiming their classes to you for you to figure out who's mafia or not (if that's how this even works)?
