The Bastard Game: Day 5
- Thread starter Enderfive
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One one two
Per aspera ad astra
This seems petty imo.
Infected_alien8_
Garry's Mod Admin
I think I get what you're saying, but every game I've played apart from one, we had a day 0, and we always no-lynched. So I'm just comparing it to previous games and saying how it's not that much different to what we usually do so it's not like we're wasting 2 days that we'd usually have. Obviously this is a different setup so it doesn't make complete sense but yeah I see what you mean about using it reassure me that it's okay to do.
Danni122112
The Drunk
Understandble, so info wise it would give youa slight benefit, but you also have to concider that I am a valuable player for town for the rest of the game, and if mafia for whatever reason lynches me, that would be an amazing benefit for the town. Saved one lynch, and got an extra kill.
Danni122112
The Drunk
But then again, we are arriving at the conclusion, that if we believe everything I have stated about my role, I could possibly be an issue for the town sided people some time in the future, and if that issue arises, its even a 50/50 chance for it to go your way anyway. So we are begging to get quite slim chances here. And if I aM correct, you could avoid that situation from hapPening with a no lynch, corRect?
Infected_alien8_
Garry's Mod Admin
In that situation, if we no-lynch, we lose. Unless there's still a doctor or something alive.
But yeah now that I know it's a coinflip my desire to lynch you has dropped by some.
Jesus you people have written a lot. I'm pretty tired and I don't really have time to read through everything so I'll try to do it in the morning if I can. From what I have read (up to page 6), Danni is the most suspicious for me as he's just acting weird and drawing attention.
Danni122112
The Drunk
maybe its a sign from heaven
Also, concidering the fact that I'm probably not being lynched today, would the cop/whatever please check on me this night, There are a few different reasons for wanting me dead, and it seems like some peope just dont believe me.
Nottykitten
Nomnomnom kitteh!
That might be, but making alot of vague statements does not help the town. Furthermore it helps the town even less when he keeps saying 'look back i've already said this' when he hasn't really so I'm calling him out on it.
And considering it seems alot of people are/were confused about Danni's claim and also alot of people(I'm assuming, maybe it was just me and Inf) seemed to think that danni was claiming he would live I think someone calling him out on his vague statements is exactly what we need
Danni122112
The Drunk
I do not intend for anything to be vague. The reason I ask for people to look back, is that even though this game is getting quite long. I do not intend to be the errand writer for people to lazy to read what I type again, every time someone asks. If they cant find it on a second readthrough, sure, I'll write it get it, but I value my time more than getting quutes from old posts every single page.
If you think im vague, ask me, I have no intention of being vague.
Infected_alien8_
Garry's Mod Admin
Well you've only played 3 games right? Two with a day 0 (aqua's and this one) and one without one, which was the first game I've ever played where we didn't have one. So it makes sense that you're thinking it's not that common to have a day 0 and it's a balancing choice, whereas to me it's just a convention of Mafia
Infected_alien8_
Garry's Mod Admin
But the people who don't believe you probably think you could still be third party, just some other type of third party. If cop just gets allignment reports, all they'd be able to confirm is that you're third party. For all they know you're a serial killer and are still lying about your claim.
Nottykitten
Nomnomnom kitteh!
Ive finally read everything and I've concluded that lynching Danni is the best course of action. This is going to be a decently long post but hey atleast I'm trying to go over almost everything I find wrong about danni's claim and propose my usual outlandish theory about what I think is happening.
Let me start with what day it is today. It's friday, but it's also Day 0. Most of our day 0's lead to no lynches and for good reason because none of our power roles have had any actions yet and we have nothing concrete and barily any reads to formulate a successfull lynch. So let me just start this off by saying if we're not lynching Danni today we should be no-lynching. And before Aqua repeats 'we have good solid suspicions on Ltin and ??? right now', pretty sure that's only you and maybe Inf but I don't think most of us have seen any suspicion from Ltin and other whose name I can't remember other than standard Day 0 gibberish.
So why should we lynch Danni? Well there are two reasons, one having to do with our names which I'll get to later in another post since this one is getting quite long on it's own, and the other being that he's a third party according to his own claim. Incase you're confused what that means, it means he has his own special win condition and he has no obligation to help town in any way. So let's look at that win condition he claimed.
So why should we lynch him if we're looking at this supposed win condition? First of all as Oog pointed out a lynch doesn't mean death-by-village and him claiming that it does is weird and doesn't seem to make alot of sense. Sure town has the majority players during the day but that doesn't mean the majority votes on a player aren't Mafia. It simply doesn't make sense that any mechanic works this way.
Second of all, the mechanics of the extra kill seem super bogus and also don't make alot of sense. So town leader/vig/extra lynch is Danni's supposed theory of how the town gets that extra kill. Any specific role getting this extra kill is improbably because what happens if they're dead and then Danni is nightkilled? What town now doesn't get this extra 'benefit'? No role would get this extra supposed kill. Furthermore the town getting an extra lynch is also impossible because of the complete and utter mess the day voting would be if we had to vote for two people. All in all town somehow getting an extra kill seems extremely unlikely and because of that I don't believe that that, or the mafia getting an extra kill, will actually happen on Danni's death.
Third, do we really think Ender would put in a third party role whose win condition is 100% out of their control? Hosts tend to be careful with placing survivors in their game because such a game is super hard as one does not have any control over the mafia's night kills. Putting a role like this in the game where they can't even play like anything because they don't have their win condition yet seems not like something any host would do. Furthermore why would Ender make a role where the player has to die in order for them to win? Nobody likes dying in Mafia and forcing a player to die because of their role isn't just a bastard thing to do but cruel to whomever receives their role as they're basically robbed of their fun.
Fourth, think about his win condition claim and how he's played this day. He can only win if he's dead, yet this entire claim of his is set up to not only try and convince us not to lynch him but to scare both the town and mafia into not killing him because of this supposed 'extra kill' the other side gets. Why would he try to scare us all into not lynching/nighkilling him any day ever when his win condition means he has to be dead by the end of the game. It doesn't make any sense for him to play against his supposed win condition like this.
And lastly, Danni said this: 'As I say, if I prove a competent villager/mafia hunter, I will be very useful to you guys, because I am confirmed as not mafia, and the mafia dont want to lynch me either'. He said this before he claimed that either side could get a nightkill and has so far only called it a 'benefit'. If the mafia gain a nightkill then they have alot of incentive you lynch you so what's up you saying this if according to your later claim mafia gain a nightkill? This proves to me Danni is either making this up on the spot or he doesn't really know at all things about the claim he's making.
If I think about the 5 things I just mentioned then, to me, it seems pretty obvious that something here is wrong here. Now let's look at some (in my opinion)lies Danni has said so far:
That's most of it for what I find about his claim. In my opinion it's a big mess of improbable-impossible mechanics, counter intuitive playing, vague statements over multiple posts and a bunch of Danni seemingly lying. The only thing danni has actually got going for him in my opinion is that he's just stated his rolename 'Third Party Mimic' (I was gonna make some fuzz about how he hasn't even claimed a role name). And for his claim it does seem like a plausible name.
Most people have said they don't think Danni would play like this as that's not his general style. Well you're right and I have a working theory on why Danni is acting like this.
As far-fetched as it might sound, I think Danni was forced to make a claim. Sounds like a pretty bastard thing to do doesn't it? I think Ender (or someone with a day ability who used it very very early in the day but thats unlikely so for now I'll keep it at Ender), as part of Danni's role, told Danni he had to make a claim. One of the following three(in order of likeliness) is what I'm thinking:
I still think Danni is Third Party, whether he is actually whatever he claims or if he was forced to claim by Ender. Although sure it's possible, forcing a town player to make a third-party claim seems like an extremely bastard thing to do, I find it more likely Ender wanted to make Danni's actual third-party role harder by forcing him to claim Third Party.
TL;DR: improbable mechanics, playing against his supposed win condition, vague statements(although later clarified when asked specifically), bunch of statements he made that seem to be lies.
Let me start with what day it is today. It's friday, but it's also Day 0. Most of our day 0's lead to no lynches and for good reason because none of our power roles have had any actions yet and we have nothing concrete and barily any reads to formulate a successfull lynch. So let me just start this off by saying if we're not lynching Danni today we should be no-lynching. And before Aqua repeats 'we have good solid suspicions on Ltin and ??? right now', pretty sure that's only you and maybe Inf but I don't think most of us have seen any suspicion from Ltin and other whose name I can't remember other than standard Day 0 gibberish.
So why should we lynch Danni? Well there are two reasons, one having to do with our names which I'll get to later in another post since this one is getting quite long on it's own, and the other being that he's a third party according to his own claim. Incase you're confused what that means, it means he has his own special win condition and he has no obligation to help town in any way. So let's look at that win condition he claimed.
So to recap: he currently has no win condition. If he's lynched he gains the Mafia win condition. If he's nightkilled(by mafia) he gains the town win condition. Meanwhile he claims stays dead so this 'win-condition-after-death' of his is absolutely irrelevant to us as he poses no threat as a dead mafia member nor is he of use as a dead town member. Also if he's lynched Mafia will gain a nightkill and if he's nightkilled town will gain a kill somehow.
So why should we lynch him if we're looking at this supposed win condition? First of all as Oog pointed out a lynch doesn't mean death-by-village and him claiming that it does is weird and doesn't seem to make alot of sense. Sure town has the majority players during the day but that doesn't mean the majority votes on a player aren't Mafia. It simply doesn't make sense that any mechanic works this way.
Second of all, the mechanics of the extra kill seem super bogus and also don't make alot of sense. So town leader/vig/extra lynch is Danni's supposed theory of how the town gets that extra kill. Any specific role getting this extra kill is improbably because what happens if they're dead and then Danni is nightkilled? What town now doesn't get this extra 'benefit'? No role would get this extra supposed kill. Furthermore the town getting an extra lynch is also impossible because of the complete and utter mess the day voting would be if we had to vote for two people. All in all town somehow getting an extra kill seems extremely unlikely and because of that I don't believe that that, or the mafia getting an extra kill, will actually happen on Danni's death.
Third, do we really think Ender would put in a third party role whose win condition is 100% out of their control? Hosts tend to be careful with placing survivors in their game because such a game is super hard as one does not have any control over the mafia's night kills. Putting a role like this in the game where they can't even play like anything because they don't have their win condition yet seems not like something any host would do. Furthermore why would Ender make a role where the player has to die in order for them to win? Nobody likes dying in Mafia and forcing a player to die because of their role isn't just a bastard thing to do but cruel to whomever receives their role as they're basically robbed of their fun.
Fourth, think about his win condition claim and how he's played this day. He can only win if he's dead, yet this entire claim of his is set up to not only try and convince us not to lynch him but to scare both the town and mafia into not killing him because of this supposed 'extra kill' the other side gets. Why would he try to scare us all into not lynching/nighkilling him any day ever when his win condition means he has to be dead by the end of the game. It doesn't make any sense for him to play against his supposed win condition like this.
And lastly, Danni said this: 'As I say, if I prove a competent villager/mafia hunter, I will be very useful to you guys, because I am confirmed as not mafia, and the mafia dont want to lynch me either'. He said this before he claimed that either side could get a nightkill and has so far only called it a 'benefit'. If the mafia gain a nightkill then they have alot of incentive you lynch you so what's up you saying this if according to your later claim mafia gain a nightkill? This proves to me Danni is either making this up on the spot or he doesn't really know at all things about the claim he's making.
If I think about the 5 things I just mentioned then, to me, it seems pretty obvious that something here is wrong here. Now let's look at some (in my opinion)lies Danni has said so far:
He said this earlier in the day about name claiming yet nothing of his claim alures to having any information about names. That means this statement right here is a complete lie to have us claim names.
:thinking: you say it won't help either side yet later you claim that it does help a side via an extra kill. You're gonna say that you didn't want to reveal that at this point but honestly if you had that in mind you wouldn't of talked about you dying helping any side. Not only that but you claim you don't need us to win yet you also claim you need to die to win so you definitly need us since you can't just sudoku unless you're planning on being modkilled by Aqua. This entire quote just screams to me that his win condition here(whether his true win condition or if he was planning on claiming something else) is something different than what he has claimed later.
What ability? I'd classify ability as having a day or night action. Having something out of your control happen once you die is not an ability as far as I'd say. Plus even if you classify someone getting an extra kill as your ability, it doesn't seem at all impossible for that kill to be switched according to Inf's theory. Although this one is more up to interpretation I find this still a blatant lie trying to put down inf's theory about names.
That's most of it for what I find about his claim. In my opinion it's a big mess of improbable-impossible mechanics, counter intuitive playing, vague statements over multiple posts and a bunch of Danni seemingly lying. The only thing danni has actually got going for him in my opinion is that he's just stated his rolename 'Third Party Mimic' (I was gonna make some fuzz about how he hasn't even claimed a role name). And for his claim it does seem like a plausible name.
Most people have said they don't think Danni would play like this as that's not his general style. Well you're right and I have a working theory on why Danni is acting like this.
As far-fetched as it might sound, I think Danni was forced to make a claim. Sounds like a pretty bastard thing to do doesn't it? I think Ender (or someone with a day ability who used it very very early in the day but thats unlikely so for now I'll keep it at Ender), as part of Danni's role, told Danni he had to make a claim. One of the following three(in order of likeliness) is what I'm thinking:
- Make a Third-Party claim on day 0
- Make a Third-Party claim on day 0 that has the role name of Third Party Mimic
- On day 0 you have to claim Third Party Mimic. Your supposed abilities that you have to claim are: *insert all supposed mechanics danni mentioned*.
I still think Danni is Third Party, whether he is actually whatever he claims or if he was forced to claim by Ender. Although sure it's possible, forcing a town player to make a third-party claim seems like an extremely bastard thing to do, I find it more likely Ender wanted to make Danni's actual third-party role harder by forcing him to claim Third Party.
TL;DR: improbable mechanics, playing against his supposed win condition, vague statements(although later clarified when asked specifically), bunch of statements he made that seem to be lies.
One one two
Per aspera ad astra
I'm not a fan of no lynches and recommend we hang someone this round. It's nice to be able to analyse votes and to re-read the interactions of deceased players with living ones after they've flipped, and it's important to have these options open as early as possible. Bussing, e.g, can be pretty obvious in hindsight, and it's not always easy for scum to give passable reasons for voting to lynch a townie.
If we're not relying on the lynch to gather information, we're relying on people to use their roles well and not die.
If we're not relying on the lynch to gather information, we're relying on people to use their roles well and not die.