Republic - Completed

[Infected_alien8_]

I knew you'd use that line again.

You appear to be firmly against democracy

That's because democracy will make us lose

I knew you'd use that line again.

You appear to be firmly against democracy, but having these two claim weakens the town for one night of having the dictator unknown to the mafia.

If we stay democracy this night, rev is not able to attack the council, but having a dictatorship allows them to immediately target the dictator.

Then we're one dictator down and only two more until everyone loses.

One night of having them unknown to Mafia while they're unknown to the doctor and watcher
The next day the doc/watcher will know who they are and thus will be able to protect them, since if mafia try to kill the dictator, or rev, then we either block the kill with our doctor, or if they use the driver, we see who the driver is, which is like the most valuable mafia role

Actually now that I think about it, couldn't we just decide on who the dictator is gonna be today and have doc/watcher on them? It would mean mafia/rev won't potentially waste a kill aiming for who they think dictator is though, but would mean whistleblower + the other one who I always forget, doesn't have to out (even though they're completely useless in an Autocracy, it lessens the pool of PRs I guess)

 

[Infected_alien8_]

Dictatorship has its advantages but you are pushing way too hard for a protestor/whistleblower claim under the guise of "we'll never use democracy anyway!"

That's because we won't use democracy because that would be incredibly stupid

 

[Hunter]

Also it has nothing to do with this.

As I said in the post if notty is proven town it makes her suggested strategy far more trustworthy as there may not be some hidden flaw or tactic that she wishes to exploit LIKE LAST GAME.

No, please don't!
Both of these roles are v. useful under democracy, and Protester dies if they're elected council & attend court

I think Inf & whoever came up with this plan may want to irrelevantize Protestor by heavily encouraging a swap to dictatorship, and Whistleblower greatly helps the town when we don't know who they are.

It's likely maf wants to have these roles reveal themselves so that Maf can try to kill off the Whistleblower early, with a fully town council so the reveal is only used on already claimed uncc'd townies, rendering it useless.

I think this is the hidden flaw antitown can exploit to their advantage

 

[Infected_alien8_]

I think this is the hidden flaw antitown can exploit to their advantage

In what world would we ever switch to democracy

In your little theory of yours both me and notty are mafia, and we want to get the whistleblower and the other one to out during autocracy so that they're not useful under democracy

this assumes me and notty will want us to then flip over to democracy, which is not going to happen because as we've said 100 times, it's not a good idea

your theory doesn't make sense

 

[Hunter]

That's because democracy will make us lose

Wow, let's have a unique and interesting political aspect added into the game which the creators have thoroughly playtested 20+ times for balance and, for shits and giggles, make it so the town has a minuscule chance of winning if they use the default setting (democracy)!

Yeah, this is silly. There wouldn't be this facet to the game if it wasn't able to be used to its advantage on either setting.

 

[Infected_alien8_]

That's because democracy will make us lose


One night of having them unknown to Mafia while they're unknown to the doctor and watcher

and thus vulnerable*

 

[Infected_alien8_]

Yeah, this is silly. There wouldn't be this facet to the game if it wasn't able to be used to its advantage on either setting.

Are you suggesting a game cannot be flawed in its balance? Because you should probably read the last 10 games and you'll figure out you're wrong in that

I don't understand any of the "but priz wouldn't have done that" arguments

This is an open setup

The entire setup is literally right there for you to go read and understand

It's like seeing someone kill someone and then being like "but they wouldn't have done that!"

well turns out they did and you can look over the video footage of it as much as you want

 

[Hunter]

and thus vulnerable*

And what do you think is going to happen to dictator n2 if they miraculously don't die the first night?
The rev is going to try their damnedest to kill them off

 

[Infected_alien8_]

And what do you think is going to happen to dictator n2 if they miraculously don't die the first night?
The rev is going to try their damnedest to kill them off

And how are they going to do that with a doctor and watcher on the dictator?

 

[Hunter]

And how are they going to do that with a doctor and watcher on the dictator?

Maf can do the swap+granny thing, and despite that not working on the watcher, the watcher only gets results if the person being watched survives.

Maf is able to easily kill off the dictator, and then Watcher wouldn't know who the swapper is.

Dictator is only safe from being killed if you assume maf's cooperation in keeping dictator alive

 

[Infected_alien8_]

Maf can do the swap+granny thing, and despite that not working on the watcher, the watcher only gets results if the person being watched survives.

Maf is able to easily kill off the dictator, and then Watcher wouldn't know who the swapper is.

Dictator is only safe from being killed if you assume maf's cooperation in keeping dictator alive

And how is the mafia going to kill the dictator if they've switched the dictator with the granny? The mafia will die if they try to kill them.

 

[Hunter]

And how is the mafia going to kill the dictator if they've switched the dictator with the granny? The mafia will die if they try to kill them.

Mafia is not restricted from targeting their own members.
They can target the granny to kill the dictator.

 

[Infected_alien8_]

Also what exactly do you disagree with in this post

Are you suggesting a game cannot be flawed in its balance? Because you should probably read the last 10 games and you'll figure out you're wrong in that

I don't understand any of the "but priz wouldn't have done that" arguments

This is an open setup

The entire setup is literally right there for you to go read and understand

It's like seeing someone kill someone and then being like "but they wouldn't have done that!"

well turns out they did and you can look over the video footage of it as much as you want

 

[Infected_alien8_]

Mafia is not restricted from targeting their own members.
They can target the granny to kill the dictator.

I'm 99% sure priz said somewhere that the Mafia can't target themselves, but where'd you get that from?

 

[Hunter]

Also what exactly do you disagree with in this post

I thought it was confusing and not a good way to put it
Yes, this is an open setup, and due to the way the game works, nearly all the outcomes can be predicted
This does not mean the game is flawed?

I disagree with you saying the game in inherently unbalanced

 

[Infected_alien8_]

I thought it was confusing and not a good way to put it
Yes, this is an open setup, and due to the way the game works, nearly all the outcomes can be predicted
This does not mean the game is flawed?

I disagree with you saying the game in inherently unbalanced

I'm saying that it being an open setup means you can go read it for yourself and see if it's flawed

Which, as has been shown many times, is

 

[Hunter]

I'm 99% sure priz said somewhere that the Mafia can't target themselves, but where'd you get that from?

Asking priz in discord if maf can target themselves. He said there's nothing expressly forbidding them from doing so.

Would rather not post screenshots of conversations with the host, feel free to ask in-thread or in pm yourself to confirm

 

[Infected_alien8_]

Asking priz in discord if maf can target themselves. He said there's nothing expressly forbidding them from doing so.

Would rather not post screenshots of conversations with the host, feel free to ask in-thread or in pm yourself to confirm

I mean I may be wrong but I swear that was different last game because I specifically remember thinking that the mafia doc's antidote was soley there for them to be able to convincingly claim doctor

then again I might've thought that since the only poison was mafia now that I think about it

but I'll ask to be sure, but if that's true then yeah I see what you mean, I guess our dictator is never going to be safe

Honestly this game is genuinely impossible to win as town

 

[Hunter]

I mean I may be wrong but I swear that was different last game because I specifically remember thinking that the mafia doc's antidote was soley there for them to be able to convincingly claim doctor

then again I might've thought that since the only poison was mafia now that I think about it

but I'll ask to be sure, but if that's true then yeah I see what you mean, I guess our dictator is never going to be safe

Honestly this game is genuinely impossible to win as town

A lot of shit in this game enables great players to make high-level plays

like poisoning and then healing a player as maf to fake toxicologist, as you've alluded to
maf can even poison themselves & then encourage watcher to watch them to provide evidence that the maf is the real toxicologist, and/or suggest the real toxicologist is the swapper by having the maf poisoner give the antidote to a random townie

 

[Infected_alien8_]

But this doesn't deter from the fact that autocracy is the way to go

The Mafia will likely only kill our dictator once because if they do it twice, they risk losing to the 3p if they lose their bus driver and we lose our doctor

So we'd only be forced to NL once realistically, twice possibly (wow I feel like I'm back in the previous game since I swear I said this exact same thing about 100 times since nobody was understanding me)

Meanwhile the 3p probably won't risk visiting the dictator whilever the mafia bus driver is alive because there's a decent chance they'd die from the mafia

 

[Infected_alien8_]

A lot of shit in this game enables great players to make high-level plays

like poisoning and then healing a player as maf to fake toxicologist, as you've alluded to
maf can even poison themselves & then encourage watcher to watch them to provide evidence that the maf is the real toxicologist, and/or suggest the real toxicologist is the swapper by having the maf poisoner give the antidote to a random townie

Doing all those things would be a waste though because people are aware that these things could be going on so it wouldn't prove them in the slightest and they'd have wasted the potential for 2 poisons just to do that

 

[Hunter]

But this doesn't deter from the fact that autocracy is the way to go

The Mafia will likely only kill our dictator once because if they do it twice, they risk losing to the 3p if they lose their bus driver and we lose our doctor

So we'd only be forced to NL once realistically, twice possibly (wow I feel like I'm back in the previous game since I swear I said this exact same thing about 100 times since nobody was understanding me)

Meanwhile the 3p probably won't risk visiting the dictator whilever the mafia bus driver is alive because there's a decent chance they'd die from the mafia

we should only risk dictator if we really need to
if town ends up with two dead dictators and the rev is still alive, then council better not go dictator or we're all fucked

and if we get to dictator three and they're maf then town's shit on

 

[Hunter]

going dictator d1 is honestly almost as risky and rash as your massclaim idea

 

[Infected_alien8_]

we should only risk dictator if we really need to
if town ends up with two dead dictators and the rev is still alive, then council better not go dictator or we're all fucked

and if we get to dictator three and they're maf then town's shit on

Hunter please

Go read Notty's post

The amount of kills the Mafia has means that without an Autocracy, town is pretty much destined to lose

Autocracy has a risk that Rev could steal the win if Mafia kill our dictator twice but Mafia also don't want that to happen so it's unlikely they will

If the Watcher could see visitors of people who died then Democracy would be fine since we could have them go on anyone poisoned + have the toxicologist cure them, since then the only way for the poisoned player to die would be if the bus driver switched the poisoned player with the granny, but then the watcher would see them. Except the watcher wouldn't since their target would die so the Mafia will have at least 2 kills every night, even more when they use their Granny correctly, and meanwhile the Rev is picking people off as well

It's simply not sustainable

 

[Jivvi]

trashtalk vibes one more time and ill find you irl and give you a dirty look!

Spoiler

anyway i feel like not much of value has been said in the last few pages

elect: Hunter, Faliara, Velzerat, Nottykitten, Enderfive

i townread notty even though we disagree pretty strongly on what the right strategy is (but in saying that i don't like how inf is playing). enderfive has been towntelling fairly similarly although less so imo. i think they're good picks as if something new comes up in the council/we end up in democracy, they're viable lynch targets