Republic - Completed

[Aqua]

we wouldn't elect ender or notty as dictator with three proven town on council, that'd be silly

which is why if we were to dictator we need 5 proven, otherwise it limits the dictator pool too much and makes it too likely for rev to target the right person.


but yeah I agree let's do democracy withe nder and notty then.

unelect
Elect: Faliara, Velzerat, Hunter, Enderfive, Nottykitten

 

[Infected_alien8_]

Aqua are you gonna actually respond to my points

 

[Aqua]

Aqua are you gonna actually respond to my points

No I'm gonna go get mcdonalds, bye

 

[Nottykitten]

I DO NOT HAVE A GAME PLAN BECAUSE I AM IN THE MINDSET THAT DOING THAT IN MAFIA IS STUPID.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

I WANT TOWN TO MAKE THE BEST DECISION BASED ON IT'S CURRENT CIRCUMSTANCE AT THE GIVEN TOWN.

Current circumstance: You can choose between option A and option B.
Option A means nobody will die tonight, but literally every single town player dies the night after.
Option B means 2 town players die tonight and the night after and all nights after that everyone lives happily ever after.

"Lets pick option A because for the current circumstance it's going to be the most favorable next day XD"
-Aqua's logic

If you refuse to actually look at the game as a whole and how short-term decisions are going to impact us long-term then you're going to make us lose. But maybe as a Mafia member thats exactly what you.

 

[Enderfive]

i've already elaborated on it several times

if the mafia don't claim citizen and cc PRs then we have a 50% chance to lynch mafia every 1st day, with a 100% chance to lynch mafia every 2nd day

by your own logic, this gives us worse chances

a suspect pool of 20 counterclaims has to be worse than a suspect pool of 13 counterclaims

why would they waste 2 mafia kills in order to lynch 1 person and get lynched the next day when that person flips town

i'm not saying it's smart to do it, i'm saying it would give them an advantage in counterclaiming

I'm not relying on that but looking at notty's "Possible outcomes" none of them show Rev killing mafia, doctor saving someone, toxicologist saving someone, mafia being blocked, rev and mafia targetting the same person.

All these possible variables completely throw a spanner into this grand guesstimate notty keeps spouting because as you really should know, it is impossible to predict mafia games.

Dictator kills result in us not knowing the alignment of the victim so we could be shooting ourselves in the foot without realising thus as town we can't adapt as I have said ebfore.

Likewise doctor doesn't know who the dictator is the night they're elected, neither does bus meaning they're at full risk of dying every night. The only certain way we could catch the rev with the dictator route would be to put the watcher in the council so they know who the dictator is and they can see who targeted them upon death.

Democracy is harder and relies on us making better choices and putting in 110% to catch mafia, but autocracy is riskier and is less in our hands due to the ambiguity of it.

You have to remember mafia have more information than us regarding who's who, so why take away even more information from town?

these are all good points

He's being quiet without any strong opinions, he's acting more of a mediator between both sides atm.

this entire game has so far been a back and forth about the mechanical benefits of one system or another

you can't fault me for not bothering to think too much about a line of discussion i find completely pointless

tbh I find ender 100x more reasonable than in any mafia game ever before so I do think he's being different but I wouldn't necessarily put that as him being third party

that's merely because i've given up on arguing with you because you literally never listen to any of my points (or anyone else's, for that matter)

 

[Infected_alien8_]

that's merely because i've given up on arguing with you because you literally never listen to any of my points (or anyone else's, for that matter)

ive responded to every single point you've made with either a valid counter claim or a 'true, fair enough'

but yeah you're right, i dont listen to anyone's points XD

by your own logic, this gives us worse chances

a suspect pool of 20 counterclaims has to be worse than a suspect pool of 13 counterclaims

Pool of 14 counterclaims* where are you getting 20 from

 

[Hunter]

The German flower names were pretty, but hard to remember for me ^_^'

I'm not entirely certain if we should elect a dictator or not, but I'll go with whatever you guys decide is best.

Elect: Velzerat, Faliara, Hunter, Infected_alien8_, Enderfive

If you see this before voting ends, would you mind switching the inf vote to notty to ensure that ender can get into the democracy?

 

[Enderfive]

ive responded to every single point you've made with either a valid counter claim or a 'true, fair enough'

but yeah you're right, i dont listen to anyone's points XD


Pool of 14 counterclaims* where are you getting 20 from

the goddamn citizens are in there too

 

[Nottykitten]

If you see this before voting ends, would you mind switching the inf vote to notty to ensure that ender can get into the democracy?

No

Elect: Hunter, Fal, Velz, Notty, Ender

 

[Infected_alien8_]

the goddamn citizens are in there too

if all mafia cc a pr then citizens are irrelevant, what are you on about

 

[Nottykitten]

the goddamn citizens are in there too

Any situation with CC's is going to result in a pool of max 13 people.

If the antitown split 0-8 into citizens/PR's then we have 5 citizen claims + 8 CC's = 13. (Of which the 5 citizen claims are proven).
If the antitown split 4-4 into citizens/PR's then we have 9 citizen claims + 4 CC's = 13.
If they split fully 8-0 into citizens/PR's then we have 13 citizen claims + 0 CC's = 13.

 

[Infected_alien8_]

honestly i give up

the amount of effort ive put in responding to everything coming my way

the amount of times ive concealed and said 'fair enough i get what you mean'

and then hunter, who has ignored every point ive ever made, has the audacity to tell me im like a brick wall and dont listen and that im a parrot

and then ender swings in and says the exact same thing

what the heck is going on

 

[Hunter]

No

Elect: Hunter, Fal, Velz, Notty, Ender

Genuinely surprised you swapped your vote, I thought you were set on having both you and inf in the council.

Thank you

 

[Nottykitten]

Genuinely surprised you swapped your vote, I thought you were set on having both you and inf in the council.

Thank you

I mean if you 3 are going to force democracy the only hope this town has left is if Ender is actually the revo so might aswell.

Also when I'm in the council my vote is going to install one of you 3 as dictator and not change that vote so you can kiss any ideas you have about me going to court goodbye. I'm not going to actively participate in the towns loss I've laid out why I think a dictatorship is the only way to go and I really hope somehow you're going to reconsider going democracy.

 

[Hunter]

Any situation with CC's is going to result in a pool of max 13 people.

If the antitown split 0-8 into citizens/PR's then we have 5 citizen claims + 8 CC's = 13. (Of which the 5 citizen claims are proven).
If the antitown split 4-4 into citizens/PR's then we have 9 citizen claims + 4 CC's = 13.
If they split fully 8-0 into citizens/PR's then we have 13 citizen claims + 0 CC's = 13.

What if one maf claims citizen and the rest cc prs

 

[Infected_alien8_]

What if one maf claims citizen and the rest cc prs

then we have 6 citizen claims and 6 pr ccs = 12

 

[Infected_alien8_]

and 1 including rev

 

[Hunter]

then we have 6 citizen claims and 6 pr ccs = 12

We'd have 6 citizen claims of which one is maf and 7 antitown claiming to be specific prs. The actual prs should be taken into account as well.

7x2 is 14+6=20 ccs

 

[Nottykitten]

Wait I'm slightly an idiot ignore my math since I forgot CC's count as 2.

If the antitown split 0-8 into citizens/PR's then we have 5 citizen claims + 8 CC's = 21. (Of which the 5 citizen claims are proven so 16).
If the antitown split 1-7 into citizens/PR's then we have 6 citizen claims + 7 CC's = 20.
If the antitown split 2-6 into citizens/PR's then we have 7 citizen claims + 6 CC's = 19.
If the antitown split 3-5 into citizens/PR's then we have 8 citizen claims + 5 CC's = 18.
If the antitown split 4-4 into citizens/PR's then we have 9 citizen claims + 4 CC's = 17.
If the antitown split 5-3 into citizens/PR's then we have 10 citizen claims + 3 CC's = 16.
If the antitown split 6-2 into citizens/PR's then we have 11 citizen claims + 2 CC's = 15.
If the antitown split 7-1 into citizens/PR's then we have 12 citizen claims + 1 CC's = 14.
If the antitown split 8-0 into citizens/PR's then we have 13 citizen claims + 0 CC's = 13.

 

[Hunter]

Pretty sure at 20ccs they can just outlast us and the massclaim would have minimal (if any) benefit

 

[Nottykitten]

Pretty sure at 20ccs they can just outlast us and the massclaim would have minimal (if any) benefit

Any CC they make will result in them not being able to kill said PR or they'd be exposed, giving us a pretty decent edge still especially now that our 3 most useless PR's have already claimed.

 

[Infected_alien8_]

We'd have 6 citizen claims of which one is maf and 7 antitown claiming to be specific prs. The actual prs should be taken into account as well.

7x2 is 14+6=20 ccs

yeah nvm ignore me im being dumb

 

[Hunter]

Any CC they make will result in them not being able to kill said PR or they'd be exposed, giving us a pretty decent edge still especially now that our 3 most useless PR's have already claimed.

I mean we'd have 6 clears, but every time we lynch correctly the antitown can just kill off the real one

And rev will just kill off dictator, unless you can prevent that somehow. Doc claims are prolly gonna die regardless, if we use democracy at any point

and if dictator dies that's a no lynch

bad plan

 

[Hunter]

Any CC they make will result in them not being able to kill said PR or they'd be exposed, giving us a pretty decent edge still especially now that our 3 most useless PR's have already claimed.

it'd be even less of an edge considering the six clears include the three that are already cleared without using this plan

 

[Hunter]

the minimum benefit is gaining three new clears assuming maf/rev play for max ccs

downside is literally every role in the game is known to antitown