They Are Among Us [Game Complete!]

[Infected_alien8_]

also hk have you asked stranger about the block thing or not? if not why not?

 

[HKCaper]

i wasnt, but why do you want to know?

do you read my posts

i wouldnt find it unlikely he shared some reads or something in there, that could be interesting. also, why wouldnt you tell if you were?

 

[Infected_alien8_]

tbh ignore that last question i feel like its too meta to be allowed probably

 

[HKCaper]

also hk have you asked stranger about the block thing or not? if not why not?

que?

 

[Infected_alien8_]

do you read my posts

yeah i remember you saying something about getting reads from it but couldnt remember the specifics

i wouldnt find it unlikely he shared some reads or something in there, that could be interesting. also, why wouldnt you tell if you were?

i would tell you if i was

 

[HKCaper]

que?

is this about that bit in bold where aqua called you out on pm related stuff?

 

[Infected_alien8_]

is this about that bit in bold where aqua called you out on pm related stuff?

yeah basically i asked stranger about if id get told if i was blocked, she said no.

aquas saying he asked stranger whether shed tell the answer to that question, and she said no.

so either one of us are lying or stranger misunderstood aqua's question. so aqua suggested everyone ask stranger themselves and itll become clear.

i was wondering why you werent mentioning this at all since id imagine you would have some kind of thought on the matter if you were truly trying to figure me/aqua out.

so i guess, rather than asking 'have you asked stranger/why not?', since that feels too meta, ill ask 'why didnt you mention this blocking shenanigan at all when giving your opinion on us? or try to further find out what happened? since surely that could be a huge tell of our alignment yet you just kinda completely ignored it.'

 

[Aqua]

people have been calling me 3p ever since i claimed, and now when its mylo, and im in the spotlight, do you not think id claim 3p?

Nah because then you'd lose regardless.

 

[Infected_alien8_]

Nah because then you'd lose regardless.

how

 

[Aqua]

so i guess, rather than asking 'have you asked stranger/why not?', since that feels too meta, ill ask 'why didnt you mention this blocking shenanigan at all when giving your opinion on us? or try to further find out what happened? since surely that could be a huge tell of our alignment yet you just kinda completely ignored it.'

this entire thing is too meta. If you hadn't brought it up and just said you think you were blocked I'd have very likely believed you.

The only way I can argue against a claim like that is reaffirming with the hosts.

 

[Aqua]

how

If you're outed as a 3rd party thief role then we'd demand to know exactly how your role worked, if not you would likely be lynched first chance we get and mafia, if they had a blocker, would use it on you religiously to stop you from reaching your win con.

You'd be there enemy as much as ours and since they're winning, they wouldn't want you to ruin it.

 

[HKCaper]

yeah basically i asked stranger about if id get told if i was blocked, she said no.

aquas saying he asked stranger whether shed tell the answer to that question, and she said no.

so either one of us are lying or stranger misunderstood aqua's question. so aqua suggested everyone ask stranger themselves and itll become clear.

i was wondering why you werent mentioning this at all since id imagine you would have some kind of thought on the matter if you were truly trying to figure me/aqua out.

so i guess, rather than asking 'have you asked stranger/why not?', since that feels too meta, ill ask 'why didnt you mention this blocking shenanigan at all when giving your opinion on us? or try to further find out what happened? since surely that could be a huge tell of our alignment yet you just kinda completely ignored it.'

i guess i didnt read carefully enough, i think i missed the point and therefore the whole argument just felt dumb to me so i didnt think much of it. the stuff with the pm's does feel like meta.

you claiming getting blocked is actually interesting. nobody claimed to be blocked yesterday, then again there seem to be quite a bit of vanillas. dont really now what else to think of it. if you are scum, you could simple be lying about it to win cred. i guess we cant be sure if there is actually a roleblocker yet. could whoever you targetted perhaps be shielded from steals? i wonder how a blocker would work with unu's and mars' role since it seems they chose someone during the day.

 

[HKCaper]

anyhow i think im off for a bit, would really like some input besides (no offense) aqua and inffy

 

[Infected_alien8_]

this entire thing is too meta. If you hadn't brought it up and just said you think you were blocked I'd have very likely believed you.

The only way I can argue against a claim like that is reaffirming with the hosts.

except you wouldnt have 'very likely believed' me, since the entire reason i said it was since you said if there was a blocker then someone would have said they were blocked already. making it clear that the block doesnt give a notification and therefore its easily possible the blocker targeted a day ability person (aka UNU) or a vanilla, was the only argument i could persuade you with.

If you're outed as a 3rd party thief role then we'd demand to know exactly how your role worked, if not you would likely be lynched first chance we get and mafia, if they had a blocker, would use it on you religiously to stop you from reaching your win con.

You'd be there enemy as much as ours and since they're winning, they wouldn't want you to ruin it.

im asking why you think, if im mafia, i wouldnt just claim 3p.

if you think im truly 3p, i dont care. that means you shouldnt lynch me. i want to show you that im not mafia, because if i was, my easiest way out would be to claim 3p.

i guess i didnt read carefully enough, i think i missed the point and therefore the whole argument just felt dumb to me so i didnt think much of it.

big doubt, but alright

you claiming getting blocked is actually interesting. nobody claimed to be blocked yesterday, then again there seem to be quite a bit of vanillas.

yeah, and UNU couldve been blocked if maf thought he was cop. kill erik, block UNU, makes sense to me. UNU wouldnt be told about the block since he had a day ability ofc.

could whoever you targetted perhaps be shielded from steals?

yeah i did suggest this was possible earlier. aqua tagged skele about it (the person i targeted).

i wonder how a blocker would work with unu's and mars' role since it seems they chose someone during the day.

i assume it would just not block them.

 

[Infected_alien8_]

HKCaper whats your role name?

 

[Timdood3]

I mean I've said it before and I'll say it again, I want everybody to message stranger and ask the same question I did.

If stranger misunderstood that'll be made apparent, if I lied that will also be made apparent....

and if you lied... well, I guess we know what happens then :)

Frankly, this is overly blatant use of meta-reasoning.

this entire thing is too meta. If you hadn't brought it up and just said you think you were blocked I'd have very likely believed you.

The only way I can argue against a claim like that is reaffirming with the hosts.

Then just treat is as if he'd said "My action failed last night." There doesn't have to be anything meta about it moving forward.

I'm going to be entirely honest here, I don't have the big brain energy needed to listen to you two squabble and ramble, so I merely skimmed the last ?? pages written while I was asleep/at work. I didn't quite follow everything, but I'm going to focus on Aqua's attempt at gamesolving.

(Speculation Disclaimer: This is meta speculation about the setup and what it is likely to contain/not contain.)
I know Alisha. I've designed a game with Alisha. I recall Aqua saying he knows Alisha. I also recall him saying something about early massclaims being common. They aren't particularly so here, and that's due in part to Alisha, who always makes sure to include a counter to early massclaiming. And I think I see it.

Aqua's gamesolving revolves around town cooperation but doesn't seem to take into account all the means of disruption. He omitted the safe. The item that says "I know what you need because you massclaimed, now you can no longer do the thing and are wasting your time." If we assume that the mafia[or a 3rd party] are also trying to build some sort of super item, the safe could work against that, but the town wouldn't (or at least shouldn't) ever know what items are needed. Unless they got really bold and decided to play it off like they needed it for something vaguely pro-town. Even as a town role/item, it hurts town more than it benefits them. And since it can't be stolen, it ensures that the safe doesn't change alignment unless the owner is lynched.
TL;DR I think the safe is an anti-town item implemented for mafia to counter massclaim strategies.

I also don't believe that the items can be swapped out once they're in the safe. I think that was a bit that Aqua added to make inf's role look more anti-town. There are several other reasons I believe this:
1) The wrench is not in his inventory, the only reasons for it not to appear to my search are a) it no longer exists or
2(b)) the safe makes it invisible to my search, a form of investigative immunity, making it still anti-town.
2) Aqua claimed outright that the safe allowed him to "dispose" of items. He reiterated more than once that the wrench was gone for good. He wouldn't have done this if he had planned initially to say that he could take the items back out of it.

I still think there's a decent chance that inf is a third party trying to assemble items in a non-lethal manner, which might (but I wouldn't put money on it) mean there are only two mafia.
But I think Aqua is mafia, and that is where my spiritual vote lies.

I'm not sure when the deadline is since the link in the main post is broken.

 

[Infected_alien8_]

except you wouldnt have 'very likely believed' me, since the entire reason i said it was since you said if there was a blocker then someone would have said they were blocked already. making it clear that the block doesnt give a notification and therefore its easily possible the blocker targeted a day ability person (aka UNU) or a vanilla, was the only argument i could persuade you with.

i mean, i guess i couldve just said 'my action didnt go through but i got no notification of a block, so it seems that i was blocked and that blocks dont give a notification', and only bring up what stranger said if you said 'a block would most likely leave a notification so its unlikely you were blocked'

im asking why you think, if im mafia, i wouldnt just claim 3p.

if you think im truly 3p, i dont care. that means you shouldnt lynch me. i want to show you that im not mafia, because if i was, my easiest way out would be to claim 3p.

i think i mightve misunderstood your point here and that you already answered, but ill await your response anyways

Frankly, this is overly blatant use of meta-reasoning.

Then just treat is as if he'd said "My action failed last night." There doesn't have to be anything meta about it moving forward.

I'm going to be entirely honest here, I don't have the big brain energy needed to listen to you two squabble and ramble, so I merely skimmed the last ?? pages written while I was asleep/at work. I didn't quite follow everything, but I'm going to focus on Aqua's attempt at gamesolving.

(Speculation Disclaimer: This is meta speculation about the setup and what it is likely to contain/not contain.)
I know Alisha. I've designed a game with Alisha. I recall Aqua saying he knows Alisha. I also recall him saying something about early massclaims being common. They aren't particularly so here, and that's due in part to Alisha, who always makes sure to include a counter to early massclaiming. And I think I see it.

Aqua's gamesolving revolves around town cooperation but doesn't seem to take into account all the means of disruption. He omitted the safe. The item that says "I know what you need because you massclaimed, now you can no longer do the thing and are wasting your time." If we assume that the mafia[or a 3rd party] are also trying to build some sort of super item, the safe could work against that, but the town wouldn't (or at least shouldn't) ever know what items are needed. Unless they got really bold and decided to play it off like they needed it for something vaguely pro-town. Even as a town role/item, it hurts town more than it benefits them. And since it can't be stolen, it ensures that the safe doesn't change alignment unless the owner is lynched.
TL;DR I think the safe is an anti-town item implemented for mafia to counter massclaim strategies.

I also don't believe that the items can be swapped out once they're in the safe. I think that was a bit that Aqua added to make inf's role look more anti-town. There are several other reasons I believe this:
1) The wrench is not in his inventory, the only reasons for it not to appear to my search are a) it no longer exists or
2(b)) the safe makes it invisible to my search, a form of investigative immunity, making it still anti-town.
2) Aqua claimed outright that the safe allowed him to "dispose" of items. He reiterated more than once that the wrench was gone for good. He wouldn't have done this if he had planned initially to say that he could take the items back out of it.

I still think there's a decent chance that inf is a third party trying to assemble items in a non-lethal manner, which might (but I wouldn't put money on it) mean there are only two mafia.
But I think Aqua is mafia, and that is where my spiritual vote lies.

I'm not sure when the deadline is since the link in the main post is broken.

id not thought about the safe being used from a scum perspective, i think you make a good point there.

although, assuming maf has a scummy blueprint just as town has a townie blueprint, i can also see town uses for the safe, and im not convinced aqua's scum atm.

your point about how the item didnt show up on your investigation is interesting though. that could be useful if maf have an item scanner role, but could also backfire onto him if you/me target him to check his items are what he says. so im not sure whether i think the hosts wouldve done that or not.

what do you think about hk btw?

 

[Infected_alien8_]

although, assuming maf has a scummy blueprint just as town has a townie blueprint, i can also see town uses for the safe, and im not convinced aqua's scum atm.

(to elaborate, if maf have a blueprint, then its not impossible town can get their hands on it, either through lynching and taking it from the town square, or by me taking it from them)

 

[Infected_alien8_]

(to elaborate, if maf have a blueprint, then its not impossible town can get their hands on it, either through lynching and taking it from the town square, or by me taking it from them)

(so then we'd know what items to hide from maf)

 

[Aqua]

Frankly, this is overly blatant use of meta-reasoning.

Hardly.

You can't expect one to not use meta tactics when the evidence inf is presented is exploiting pm mechanics.

You can't disagree that regardless of whether either of us are lying or whether stranger misunderstood my question. Inf should not have been told this by the game host. Period.

It gives an unfair advantage and knowledge into unproven game mechanics with no way to refute other than doing what I did and also going to the host.

If you don't want to play the game like this and go to stranger for clarification, that's up to you.

I know Alisha. I've designed a game with Alisha

I recall Aqua saying he knows Alisha. I also recall him saying something about early massclaims being common. They aren't particularly so here, and that's due in part to Alisha, who always makes sure to include a counter to early massclaiming. And I think I see it.

You... you do realise my argument is that inf's role isn't town-sided as otherwise it would make massclaiming a free win, right?

If I hadn't made it clear I apologise but my argument wasn't for a massclaim, it was using massclaim as an easily dissectable/digestable example for why inf's class would be overpowered if townie.

We agree my dude...

If we assume that the mafia[or a 3rd party] are also trying to build some sort of super item, the safe could work against that, but the town wouldn't (or at least shouldn't) ever know what items are needed.

I'm not too sure on the purpose of the safe either tbh, but you're forgetting the fact that mafia might also want to disrupt our building of an alien detector. The safe would prevent them from stealing the blueprints or a crucial item, as it is an item itself it can be traded from player to player. (I'm pretty sure, might reaffirm with the hosts again).

Which is why I was suggesting giving it to you as you're far more likely to be a townsided investigative role than inf. Thus proving me innocent
(in regards to what the safe does) and allowing you to do whatever you want with the safe and it's contents.

TL;DR I think the safe is an anti-town item implemented for mafia to counter massclaim strategies.

Sure except for if you didn't literally admit to not reading anything I've said in regards to theorycrafting you would realise without a thief role it would be near impossible to delete anything of importance as whoever has the blueprint is doc'd and/or has the cow bulletproof vest.

Also if it was mafia sided and did actually delete the item permanently then it would be incredibly improbable that town would be able to make the alien detector to the extent that items are entirely pointless.

moral of the story: read before commenting please :) inf and I spent the time writing these essays the least you can do is read them once.

 

[Aqua]

Sure except for if you didn't literally admit to not reading anything I've said in regards to theorycrafting you would realise without a thief role it would be near impossible to delete anything of importance as whoever has the blueprint is doc'd and/or has the cow bulletproof vest.

Also if it was mafia sided and did actually delete the item permanently then it would be incredibly improbable that town would be able to make the alien detector to the extent that items are entirely pointless.

Wait how would this even stop a massclaim what???

Even if they managed to delete the blueprint or the items needed to make it, it still doesn't allow them to steal more items than they get with their nightkill. and the pool of potential mafia is still thinned to 5-6 day 2-3 (assuming town has mislynched up until this point)

with 3 investigative abilities checking the pool the game would still be free, fuck man that's even worse logic than infs super op lawyer/bus theory

 

[Timdood3]

You can't disagree that regardless of whether either of us are lying or whether stranger misunderstood my question. Inf should not have been told this by the game host. Period.

Unless I'm mistaken, inf was not told he was blocked. He was essentially told that if he were to have been blocked, he would not have been alerted. Such is how I've always interpreted host clarification, and expect others to as well.

without a thief role it would be near impossible to delete anything of importance as whoever has the blueprint is doc'd and/or has the cow bulletproof vest.

The blueprint doesn't need to be destroyed, only one singular piece of it, to make it useless.

it still doesn't allow them to steal more items than they get with their nightkill.

Why do they need to? As I said, they only need to destroy one item.
It counters massclaim strategies because if someone claims
"Hey I have a blueprint that makes town win the game! It needs items a, b, and c!"
And then there you are, already holding one of the items and a way to destroy it.
Your role keeps mafia from immediately losing to a massclaim.

And I did read the parts talking about the potential mafia pool being thinned but I don't follow. Could you give me a rundown?

moral of the story: read before commenting please :) inf and I spent the time writing these essays the least you can do is read them once.

I'm sorry I can't clearly follow 100+ posts of incoherent nonsense. As a note, I'd also request that you not be quite so rude. I've no problem with aggressive play, but there is no need to be rude.

what do you think about hk btw?

Probably town due to process of elimination, I find aqua and sessy to be scummier.

 

[Infected_alien8_]

Hardly.

You can't expect one to not use meta tactics when the evidence inf is presented is exploiting pm mechanics.

thats not what pm mechanics is.

asking host for clarification on info is fine. its the hosts choice whether to answer or not. if i have info on the setup as clarified by the host then itd be much worse for the game if i wasnt then allowed to share that and instead had to rely on hoping others happened to ask the same question, for us all to be on the same page.

fuck man that's even worse logic than infs super op lawyer/bus theory

yeah ok having both a lawyer and/or fully fledged driver could be pretty OP for mafia if town doesnt end up massclaiming. still, that was just one example of how maf roles could refute everything you've said. maf having a day thief and an item driver would also be sufficient, and not OP. same with mafia having a 1-shot strongman role and a roleblocker, or a day thief and a strongman/blocker. there are many maf combos which would refute everything you've said about me being town giving us a free win.

Probably town due to process of elimination, I find aqua and sessy to be scummier.

thats kinda sad since im like 95% likely gonna be voting hk today

 

[HKCaper]

HKCaper whats your role name?

Jane Smith

big doubt, but alright

that bit only refered to the pm related part of the conversation, not the blocker thing as a whole, but alright

 

[Infected_alien8_]

Jane Smith

sarah??

that bit only refered to the pm related part of the conversation, not the blocker thing as a whole, but alright

yeah i still highly doubt you read aqua supposedly proving im lying via pm stuff and thought 'meh its prob nothing'