Lightning price

[ZariatN2]

After using lightning mainly as a close combat weapon for a while, I noticed that 12 points is way too high of a price. Basically, the price of a weapon is determined by how easy it is to get kills in most situations, with the exceptions of killstreak potential/cost for nukes/cannons and the like. Shotgun has utility for almost all maps and most players are vulnerable to it with additional blocks used to target the upper part of the hitbox. The same is true for rockets, except that it's even easier to get high kill streaks and take out good players, this justifying the cost of 15 points.

The prices of weapons can, of course, only be determined in relation with other weapons. Mortars and C4 (and distinctly other weapons, too) show that the cost of lightnings should be lowered, probably in the range of 8 points per use. Aside from accumulating much higher killstreaks with additional upgrades, mortars and C4 both take much less uses to get a kill than lightning. Its small radius and fixed roofs on many maps make it a point waste, even though it takes much more skill to gain kills with it. Some people might say that obtaining easy kills from pillars justifies a cost of 12 points, but pillars are rare and mortars are the cheaper and better alternative (if you can count blocks in 5 quickly). Lightning at its highest potential is even less effective than a 5 range pistol, which makes it obvious that its cost should be at least somewhere between mortar and pistol, possibly 8.

Edit: Also, the fact that I use lightnings is not a good 'argument' against this.

 

[Chrise10]

Hmm.....I use lightning a lot. 12 point weapon for a 10 point kill is not much to lose out on. Sure, your effective range is generally 1 block. But it is mainly used for people who like to pillar. Another thing I have found useful is when people are acting like bunny rabbits on steroids and repeatedly jumping over my pistols. I quickly give them a jolt of lightning and they die. Limit your use to just people who pillar, and you may (if you are not on or can't accumulate a killstreak) only lose out on 2 points. A kill will add to your overall score which may land you some extra points at the end of the round.

 

[ZariatN2]

Hmm.....I use lightning a lot. 12 point weapon for a 10 point kill is not much to lose out on. Sure, your effective range is generally 1 block. But it is mainly used for people who like to pillar. Another thing I have found useful is when people are acting like bunny rabbits on steroids and repeatedly jumping over my pistols. I quickly give them a jolt of lightning and they die. Limit your use to just people who pillar, and you may (if you are not on or can't accumulate a killstreak) only lose out on 2 points. A kill will add to your overall score which may land you some extra points at the end of the round.

This pretty much implies that lightnings should only be limited to pillars, and since that's an easy kill, 12 points is a fair trade. I don't see why you should limit variety, since that's the major thing going for the gameplay to begin with. Some people might think that a price of 12 points is no big deal, but it adds up quickly, as seen by my recent loss of quite a few points. I'm not asking for it to be profitable, but 12 points is too high, comparatively.

 

[Kloud_Strife]

I see an easy solution to this: Simply build up enough of a killstreak (5 kills aren't that hard to string together) that you can profit from it, or at least not lose anything. After all, nothings Making you use lightning.

 

[ZariatN2]

I see an easy solution to this: Simply build up enough of a killstreak (5 kills aren't that hard to string together) that you can profit from it, or at least not lose anything. After all, nothings Making you use lightning.

Lag, WoM jumping and general inaccuracies still won't result in an acceptable use/kill ratio. You also can't hit players that are standing on vertices and edges most of the time.

I don't see why anyone would make an exception for lightning. Pistols have a higher use/kill ratio and are way more profitable.

 

[GrantaClause]

I'm going to have to agree with you on this one - I think lightning should be somewhere in the 8-10 range. The problem with lightning is that you lose points (assuming no streak) even when killing a pillarer who is supposedly a guaranteed kill. And often, lightning misses, even with pillarers. What if someone lightnings the guy first or he decides to jump off? Or what if there is a block above him and you lack the upgrade? Or what if he reaches the roof of the map, or he is standing on the edge as Zariat mentioned?

The price discourages its use with anything but pillarers, and even then it isn't even profitable until something like a 7-8 kill streak, assuming the first one hits. I myself have largely stopped using lightning - I use mortars instead for all of lightning's uses. It's not only cheaper but also actually has the potential for double kills and possibly even kills the guy if he walks over a block or starts to jump off. The only situation I would ever use lightning is when someone is standing on a pillar nowhere close to the roof, an even then only with a decent streak. I don't see why lightning would be more expensive than a mortar or two pistols.

Besides, what harm would lowering the price do? The only person I have ever seen spam lightning effectively is KS, and honestly lightning is very situational, much less so than the equally priced c4.

 

[DarthLego5679]

I'd like the price to be lowered. :3 Although killstreaks were nerfed to prevent high point gains.
I'm just rambling with nonsense.

Spoiler

 

[Inon]

Solution: Don't use pure lightning.

 

[ZariatN2]

Solution: Don't use pure lightning.

"Use pistols, or else..."

If that's your thing.

 

[Chrise10]

This pretty much implies that lightnings should only be limited to pillars

Again, thats why we have lightning. The only other weapon that you can hit pillars with is mortar.

I don't see why you should limit variety, since that's the major thing going for the gameplay to begin with.

See /store. There is a reason why there are a variety of things. Want to use something for something else. More power too you if you make the kill. And +1 for thinking outside of the box.

Some people might think that a price of 12 points is no big deal, but it adds up quickly, as seen by my recent loss of quite a few points.

Point management + proper placement= desirable gain

Lag, WoM jumping and general inaccuracies still won't result in an acceptable use/kill ratio. You also can't hit players that are standing on vertices and edges most of the time.

You can

I don't see why anyone would make an exception for lightning. Pistols have a higher use/kill ratio and are way more profitable.

We can somewhat argue that these are almost the same thing. One travels on the vertical axis and the other on the horizontal. Now, pistols can travel over a couple of blocks one way. But, if memory serves me right , lighting will take out things on all four sides, one block. If used right, you can win a round with just lightning. Provided you are on a map with an open sky.

 

[ZariatN2]

Again thats why we have lightning. The only other weapon that you can hit pillars with is mortar.

Mortars>Lightning for pillars.

See /store

I don't see any weapon remotely similar to close combat lightning there.

Point management + proper placement= desirable gain

I'm really opposed to the point grinding thing and constant checking. Players who already limit themselves to niche weapons that get few kills shouldn't worry about points. Point management is also not an option for me, for obvious reasons. Using 5 lightnings per round also isn't fun.

You can

Not as a close combat weapon. I could also say that I get a ratio of 1 for pistols by staying underground and watching for tunnelers. Not the best argument.

We can somewhat argue that these are almost the same thing. One travels on the vertical axis and the other on the horizontal. Now, pistols can travel over a couple of blocks one way. But, if memory serves me right , lighting will take out things on all four sides, one block.

The fact is that lightnings will earn much less kills. Try them on a jumping player.

 

[Inon]

"Use pistols, or else..."

If that's your thing.

Nice passive aggressive comment. No, that's not at all what my post meant.

If someone's on a ledge, you don't use lightning because it's not effective at all. You'd use the right tool for the right job, eg. a mortar or a rocket. If you use an extreme play style like pure lightning of course you're going to lose a certain amount of points. Like trying to use a mortar to kill a person directly in front of you in the open. oh, I can't always get a kill every time because of inaccuracies and bunny hopping and lag and such. Its because you're using it for something its not really meant for. I mean sure, If you can get kills with it, by all means do it, just perhaps use effective weapons for certain situations which is the whole point of choice.

 

[ZariatN2]

Nice passive aggressive comment. No, that's not at all what my post meant.

What.

If someone's on a ledge, you don't use lightning because it's not effective at all. You'd use the right tool for the right job, eg. a mortar or a rocket. If you use an extreme play style like pure lightning of course you're going to lose a certain amount of points. Like trying to use a mortar to kill a person directly in front of you in the open. oh, I can't always get a kill every time because of inaccuracies and bunny hopping and lag and such. Its because you're using it for something its not really meant for. I mean sure, If you can get kills with it, by all means do it, just perhaps use effective weapons for certain situations which is the whole point of choice.

Entirely misinterpreted my recent playing, which is all your statement consists of. I used lightnings for practice and because I got bored of shooting fishies in barrels. I never intended to stick to pure lightning.

Most of this really boils down to the subjective notion that lightnings should only be used for pillars. Even then a decrease of the price is needed.

 

[Kloud_Strife]

I don't see any weapon remotely similar to close combat lightning there.

I believe you said something along the lines of "variety".

So is your form of variety a bunch of close combat lightning clones? You said yourself, the perks of TnT are its assortment of weapons. Many of the other thing you've said have made sense to me, but this just stood out as nonsensical and inane.

 

[balloon98]

Look there is a reason we had changed some prices in the /store and changed killstreaks its so people don't get TOO many points. Now I can understand since I am getting interested in killing people with lightning when they are just jumping on the ground since it is an achievement to be good at, BUT you don't have to use it as chrise10 mentioned lightning is used for pillarers if you find a creative way to use it that doesn't mean we should lower the price since not many people DO use the method I only know of you and asaechao using that and asaechao doesn't even use all that often

 

[DJJonosound]

My opinion:
Lightning was designed for people who pillar, I think the price should be how it is, it discourages people from spamming the weapon. If it was to be lowered to 8-10 points, I could see the game getting very messy, as it is easy to get kills with lightning, and if it was to be 8-10 points, people would see the price and decide to buy a lot of lightnings because you will most likely profit. In a way, it is almost an instant cherrybomb. Also, imagine looking acros the top of the map, imagine it, so many streaks of cyan cloth across the map, It would look pretty nasty, and cluttered.

That is just my opinion,

EDIT: I would also have to agree with balloon, people shouldn't have too points as that can also leed to messy chaos...

~DJJonosound

 

[ZariatN2]

I believe you said something along the lines of "variety".

So is your form of variety a bunch of close combat lightning clones? You said yourself, the perks of TnT are its assortment of weapons. Many of the other thing you've said have made sense to me, but this just stood out as nonsensical and inane.

Overpriced lightnings lead to less use in general. Ever seen anyone seriously use lightning while actually getting kills? No, because it's crap outside of pillars for its price. If you'd ever used more than TNTs and pistols, you'd know that a variety of weapons opens up more enemy weaknesses to exploit. The lack of sense in that quotation might be due to your lack of comprehending/using words correctly.

 

[Kloud_Strife]

Hmm, trying to make a pointy degenerated into a bunch of insults and questions on my intelligence. Nice argument there Zariat.

As I said, I was agreeing with many of your ideas, I just wanted you to explain that one quote. Instead of explaining yourself, you instead insulted me and completely ignored what I said.

-1 to your post, if that's at all possible.

 

[ZariatN2]

Look there is a reason we had changed some prices in the /store and changed killstreaks its so people don't get TOO many points. Now I can understand since I am getting interested in killing people with lightning when they are just jumping on the ground since it is an achievement to be good at, BUT you don't have to use it as chrise10 mentioned lightning is used for pillarers if you find a creative way to use it that doesn't mean we should lower the price since not many people DO use the method I only know of you and asaechao using that and asaechao doesn't even use all that often

Except that making lightnings cost 10 points is far from ruining the point balance? Seriously? Not to mention that I can just upgrade C4/Shotgun/Rocket and get 60 kill streaks. Yeah. If there are any concerns with the point system than it's definitely not decreasing lightning cost by 2 or 4, since, again, pistols>lightning if used at high potential. I can assure you that I couldn't have made my 140k points (15k/day) with lightnings at 2-4 points less.

My opinion:

Lightning was designed for people who pillar, I think the price should be how it is, it discourages people from spamming the weapon. If it was to be lowered to 8-10 points, I could see the game getting very messy, as it is easy to get kills with lightning, and if it was to be 8-10 points, people would see the price and decide to buy a lot of lightnings because you will most likely profit. In a way, it is almost an instant cherrybomb. Also, imagine looking acros the top of the map, imagine it, so many streaks of cyan cloth across the map, It would look pretty nasty, and cluttered.

Spamming lightnings<spamming pistols<spamming a lot of stuff

It's quite surprising how lightnings are opposed for being different.

 

[san00b]

This thread has been reported!

This is a reminder that disagreeing with someone's suggestion or point is fine. Pushing past their point and attacking the person, directly or indirectly, is not.

I'll have my eye on this thread.

 

[Chrise10]

Well, I can own KingSam all day long with nothing but lightning. Though, profiting will vary from round to round depending my kill streaks, whether or not I am on the winning team, and or top 3. If memory serves me right, lighting was lowered from 15 to 12. But I may be wrong. In all of my posts, its safe to say I am not in favor of lowering the price. But its just my opinion :)

I'll see you on the battlefield.

 

[KingSam]

Lightning was designed predominantly for killing people on pillars, or those who have a height advantage over you. It wasn't designed as a ground, close combat weapon. Sure, it can be used for such, but the focus was having weapons that work on more than just a horizontal plane. For those who want to break even on them, it's not hard to earn enough kills to get 12 points per kill. Pillars aren't uncommon at all. 12 points to be almost certain of getting a kill is a perfectly fine price, since often you'll take more than 2 pistols to kill somebody, thus making it more expensive.

I see no reason to change the price of lightnings.

 

[CaramelCow]

If you are doing close combat which is generally quite rare (in my point of view) try using the TNT and putting it behind them. They run into it and boom they die. If they are on pillars however use a mortar/lightning.

 

[DJS0102]

I love the idea of having lightning's price lowered!:)
Do I think it's not necessary, no.
Lightning has enough uses to make it worth the money (aside from maps with roofs) and it's already pretty cheap.

 

[Celebrir]

I liked it as it was 10/lightning.