I don't know if JK will speak or not. He seems to average on one colossal post a day, chock-full of logic, which is generally accepted by everyone as ground zero facts. Now that he has been dispositioned, he will hopefully be more likely to speak simply and truly, provided he is innocent, as his usual rhythm has been obliterated.
Blocktopia Mafia Season 7
- Thread starter Alisha
- Start date
- Status
JKangaroo
Your Local, Neighborhood Marsupial
I'm working on it. I'm slow, havent been motivated to do much recently, I tend to take hours making a post, and I tend to take breaks because I can't think of how to word stuff (cause i'm picky), and as said before, 3 projects doesnt entirely want to make me be on the forums.
Hopefully I get it posted before I head to bed.
balloon98
The balloon that never pops
I find it hilarious when good evidence comes people ignore it but once Jivvi gets voted on he instantly starts a bandwagon on JKangaroo. I mean let's be honest you and notty both we acting really friendky to each other andven now you both are that looked very suwpicious to me.
Now notty being elite civillian I mean I guess I could see that but remember she poets things that make sense to her.
My long post was going to be against 77 because of clear cut reasone of random votings and not talking much other than the other ridiculous choices of people to lynch. Now the post seems irrelevant so have fun lynching a most likely towny
Now notty being elite civillian I mean I guess I could see that but remember she poets things that make sense to her.
My long post was going to be against 77 because of clear cut reasone of random votings and not talking much other than the other ridiculous choices of people to lynch. Now the post seems irrelevant so have fun lynching a most likely towny
well, i think its safe to retract my vote for nottykitten.
also, jivvi, i can't understand longer posts, they are too confusing, so i have to leave them out of my thinking. like i said before, if i can't understand a post, i dont factor it in to my reasoning
also, jivvi, i can't understand longer posts, they are too confusing, so i have to leave them out of my thinking. like i said before, if i can't understand a post, i dont factor it in to my reasoning
Wow.
You are taking every single vague suggestion made by anyone to heart, and some of those opinions I don't know how to respond to. For starters, I didn't 'bandwagon' on JK. I brought up his suspicious acts, and we are discussing it now. Notty has only claimed to be an elite. We can't know for sure. But the most ridiculous part was this last part
I mean, how is JK the most likely towny? He doesn't post frequently; sure, he has huge posts, but that is more than outweighed by even the quiet people's mass of small posts. He throws suspicion at everyone and tries to turn the game on it head. Then he reveals someone who might be the vigi. He 'thinks'. But what he did in reality was slap a massive target on the back of poor Notty, who has minimal evidence against him. JK is is no way the most likely towny. I suggest you reread the recent happenings.
balloon98
The balloon that never pops
For starters I am not referring you to band wagoning I mean the like 3-4 others that voted after you.
I have been reading closer than you think and just because he made observations means he is immediately anti-town? You could say notty looks suspicious for always giving her all against one person usually but it isnt true since thats her playstyle just like how this is JKangaroos.
Vague suggestions? What are you even talking about vague suggestions since none of that is being taken by me and if you see any explain which since I have no idea what you mean. The onky thing I know for sure is that after JK made his well written post that actually made good points against you coincidentally he gets turned on.
Besides the other votes havent been so great either from voting on 2 different people to get thennto talk or voting super because he made a YOLO vote. Sure jkang may have revealed notty's role how do we not know that he actually KNOWS her role and is the cop? To be fair I again dont feel enough of anything has been placed on anyone.
Also pardon my typing on my tablet I never realized how bad it looked since spellcheck apparently cant do its job on this thing.
JKangaroo
Your Local, Neighborhood Marsupial
I've hardly moved from my computer all day since I've accidentally deleted my post 3 times already. I'm trying to redo it in a 4th try, but honestly it's just turning out to just be a big frustration ball because of that.
I'll get it out though. Give me at least half an hour. I have a response.
JKangaroo
Your Local, Neighborhood Marsupial
Okay, so I fell asleep halfway through finishing my original post; I really shouldn't have promised that I would have my post up and ready before I had headed to bed, I always seem to get around to doing this around 3 in the morning and that is NOT the time for doing these kinds of things. Although, I started working on it right as I got up, but I guess I never got the memo!: Apparently I missed a whole page of discussion with Notty claiming to be the Lucky Civilian and etc, etc etc. Because of that I decided to completely scrap everything I had written already cause new information could change everything RIGHT?!----
...well actually no. It didn't really change anything in terms of my post at all, and now I regret ever scraping it in the first place.
...PLUS, as I was recreating my post, I accidentally opened up this tab into Google and lost everything....
...Just my luck.
Ugh, I've been doing this from 10 am and back to 5 am as its hitting 20 past as I'm writing this. I really hope I don't have to re-write this all over again.
Anyways:
I am in no way "dispositioned," and my "slower rhythm" has already been stated many times already: It's summer, I'm lazier then I honestly expected to be. There's people and places I want to be with and hang out with, multiple sales going on across the internet, and I still have those 3 projects I've been taking breaks in and out of doing, so honestly I'm apprehensive of even looking at the forums whenever I'm working on em.
These words hold no water to me.
Anyways, I am here to do what again? Oh yes, its this whole, "Nottykitten and Vigilante" debacle isn't it? Why don't we take a little strole down memory lane and take a gander and pinpoint some "key" statements about this arguments, shall we?:
However, before I even get to those, why not the so called, "big question."
The question being shouted from the windows of rooftops, to the sky and beyond!--
Why would I honestly ever even make the remark of someone, anyone, of being the vigilante, Notty being my example in this case?
Why JKangaroo, why?! ...
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...
There is a fact that must be presented here, because honestly, I hardly feel the need to even respond to that question after reading some of the recent posts by a particular in-animate object, that of a very mysterious, talking, floating, balloon, to be exact.
Let me give a nice, little quote from him:
Obviously?! Please, stop being so generalized. It's not "obvious" in the slightest. You may think that, but I'm certain many other people, not even in this game, could say to share such a similar opinion. You're jumping the gun on such a statement from what evidence? There is none, such a statement is purely an opinionated response, and honestly, its worded in such a way that is really just seems to twist the general, I would say, "stereotype" for how a supposed "town-player" really plays.
Half of your post honestly quite feels like your blatantly putting words and discussions I've never even talked about or even thought of into my mouth as if these were words and ideas I was actively trying to use to my advantage, which quite frankly is absolutely absurd. You say I "took a stab at Notty," that in doing so i'm essentially "TRYING to eliminate the two most frequent speakers of this thread."
Stop, just stop a moment, because once more, you continually present yourself shoving YOUR ideas and arguments that I'm "supposedly" doing with really, nothing behind them to even give the slightest shred of evidence to even back up such a claim, all into MY MOUTH. What I see here is a continuous example of a player spinning ideas and words to somehow make actually fairly random ideas in my opinion make a big deal, which really, they hardly do.
And saying i'm actively TRYING to eliminate the more talkative players, being you and Notty? My initial assumption when actually reading those lines went through my head like a lightning bolt. To me, such a statement essentially says, because so and so are such a talkative player(s) and supposedly could be said are the "ones supposedly moving the thread forward" essentially elevates it to a position where it can be used as a bit of a threat to say that any acts done against this talkative group is bad for everyone, which is hardly true.
There are so many ideas and questions and words that just-- shouldn't be here.
However, I guess with this argument, the idea comes full circle I guess...
Because there is still a simple fact to give because honestly, there randomly became an uproar over something I honestly can't understand: Why did I even refer or talk about or give suspicion on whom I believe the Vigilante is? Because let's be honest, suddenly if I say such a thing I'm suddenly an alien right? Right?--- Of course not.
Let's bring up Balloon's quote once again:
I continually see arguments being brought up that honestly, feel so silly to be brought up as arguments especially after SO MANY season's of instance's where such things have been perfectly acceptable and we have almost done basically every season. Suddenly people answering and asking question's are suddenly being suspected by Defiant despite the countless times its been done in the past, random comment on how "saying abstaining is a bad thing" gets one suspected despite many players, especially Defiant, being avid supporters of NOT abstaining since it does nothing for the game, and now--- this.
The answer to this question regarding the Vigilante: an easy thing to do.
Because honestly:
I've essentially always done this, and I believe numerous people have done the same in the past, and I'm not entirely sure "why" this is even an issue now, and not back then, or ever, really. May I ask the question, "Why not talk about suspicions of players?" Is this NOT mafia? Are we not allowed to speak up and talk about whom we believe are people's roles and others that we do not?
It seems we are so easily allowed to state whom we believe are Mafia, and whom we believe to be "innocent", and yet, somehow we are essentially banned, as if a giant "taboo" has come upon ever mentioning any other roles after being put in a position like this.
I've always done this, or at least, things in such a similar fashion they can be basically the same.
These have, and always will be, basic "assumptions" based on personal ideas, hunches, and given information at any given time.
"Say who are you suspicious of?" Someone would ask in one season.
Why, I would easily respond: "Oh, well, here's a little list of my hunches I have so far."
In fact, let's do a little bit of that right now, shall we?:
-Nottykitten feels like the Vigilante (despite role-claim)
-Jivvi I feel is Mafia
-Digitalmez I feel like is the most likely candidate for Serial killer
-Grimjowforever feels like a civilian
-Superstein feels more like a 3rd party more then anything
...and so on, and so on.
I've done this in the past, I will continue to do this in the future. The only "real reason" this is even being considered in the first place is because this somehow "puts a target on Notty."
Can I ask EVERYONE, just HOW? does this put a target on Notty? Especially over an ASSUMPTION? Because honestly, I don't see it. The only argument really that I can see as a reason are just a bunch of "what if's," and those aren't good enough to convince me.
Anyways, I feel like this is really only a special circumstance. If you actually read my previous post, I was discussing both you, Jivvi, and Notty. So, first off, I was never "taking a jab at Notty then putting that under the rug and taking a punch at you," or however you want to say a metaphor for it, because really, that's impossible.
For a good majority of my post in which I refer to Notty as the vigilante, I was talking about both Notty and Jivvi. However, "one does not simply accuse one of the two players i was talking about WITHOUT explaining WHY I DON'T BELIEVE THE OTHER ONE ISN'T MORE SUSPICIOUS.
If I did not explain my reasoning on why I trust Notty more so then Jivvi, then what would be the point in that post being there at all?
For my posts, I like to be as thorough as possible and respond to most details. Because 1) that's how I essentially play the game, and 2) that's my personality when it comes to writing basically ANYTHING.
I wanted to, and basically every player has a right to know why I didn't suspect Notty over you, and so, I did it. I had nothing to hide, and honestly, if anything, if Notty isn't suspicious then he really had nothing to hide at all when it came to that statement other than "Nope, I'm not vigilante. Wouldve loved to though." And basically, that would be that. That's how all of said assumptions have gone in the past, and really, once again, let us remind everyone that such a thing;
WAS AN ASSUMPTION. It's a hunch, a suspicion. It's not much to go on, but we believe it's worthwhile to be shared with everyone. If that freedom to speak one's mind has been lost in this game, then honestly, I don't want to be around for it to get that far.
In the end, I'll say it again: Honestly, I don't care if you suspect me or not. I try to never say I'm on one team or the other, rather just leave it up to whatever a player wants to think. If you think I'm town, good for you. If you're suspicious, then whatever, I don't really care or mind much.
If you're going to suspect me and vote for me: fine, as long as there's GOOD reason to do so.
However, if the reason to vote for me is 1) Your not dead yet, you must be Mafia #stupid stereotypes, or this:
That sounds absolutely ridiculous and honestly, holds no water, ground, whatever, and makes no sense.
I'm fine with being suspected, just please: don't do it in this fashion, at least give a better reason on why you're voting.
Also, before I end:
No. Absolutely not.
I do not give into random demands that I don't need to meet, nor need to even recognize.
I believe we already know I'm not one for "short and concise" posts. I'm not that kind of person, and its a difficulty I experience on a daily basis. It's hardly "beating around the bush" unless you think of it that way, and want to ignore a lot of ideas, theories, and nit-pick and many a thing.
I'm sorry to have disappointed you with another of JKangaroo's finest beer: A nice, tall glass of Long Post. I won't make an exception now, nor will I in the future. I'm not one for short-posts. If I can't do what I normally do and be myself when it comes to writing, then what AM I allowed to do?
Sorry, but I'm not going to change just because you want me to do something differently.
In the end, I don't really care much for these allegations. I still honestly stick by my claims presented earlier. Despite a role-claim, (and honestly, it doesn't matter what role you claim, you are still considered possible Mafia until you die, or are confirmed by a "confirmed" cop), I still believe Notty is okay, And really, this who'll debacle with me totally feels like a ploy to avoid me accusing you or rather, protecting Notty over nothing to push away the focus from you, Jivvi.
You're still my Number 1 suspicion in my book, you hardly seem trustworthy, especially after so many examples of spin-doctoring and putting words in my mouth that I've witnessed in these posts so far, and how, still, both you and Notty just seem to have everyone eating out of the palms of your hands.
It feels... a little like this, one could say:
...well actually no. It didn't really change anything in terms of my post at all, and now I regret ever scraping it in the first place.
...PLUS, as I was recreating my post, I accidentally opened up this tab into Google and lost everything....
...Just my luck.
Ugh, I've been doing this from 10 am and back to 5 am as its hitting 20 past as I'm writing this. I really hope I don't have to re-write this all over again.
Anyways:
First off, of course I'm going to "Speak out," why wouldn't I? There's no reason not for me to respond to the thread. But, what is this "speak simply and truly, provided he is innocent" nonsense? Quite frankly, I don't understand the meaning of this at all, and really, I would personally like an explanation.
I am in no way "dispositioned," and my "slower rhythm" has already been stated many times already: It's summer, I'm lazier then I honestly expected to be. There's people and places I want to be with and hang out with, multiple sales going on across the internet, and I still have those 3 projects I've been taking breaks in and out of doing, so honestly I'm apprehensive of even looking at the forums whenever I'm working on em.
These words hold no water to me.
Anyways, I am here to do what again? Oh yes, its this whole, "Nottykitten and Vigilante" debacle isn't it? Why don't we take a little strole down memory lane and take a gander and pinpoint some "key" statements about this arguments, shall we?:
There are--- so many things wrong with this post.
However, before I even get to those, why not the so called, "big question."
The question being shouted from the windows of rooftops, to the sky and beyond!--
Why would I honestly ever even make the remark of someone, anyone, of being the vigilante, Notty being my example in this case?
Why JKangaroo, why?! ...
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...
There is a fact that must be presented here, because honestly, I hardly feel the need to even respond to that question after reading some of the recent posts by a particular in-animate object, that of a very mysterious, talking, floating, balloon, to be exact.
Let me give a nice, little quote from him:
- I quote directly from that of Jivvi: {"Obviously no town sided would risk this."} I don't know any other way of describing this other then that of a complete and utter fallacy. Two tend to come to mind to be exact.
- I want to present another fallacy and problem I personally have with this post, and others in question: I quote thee: {"Does this lead you to believe that the Vigilante is useless to us, and should be killed before he does any more damage, JK?" "...you've got it in for Notty/Vigi"}
Stop, just stop a moment, because once more, you continually present yourself shoving YOUR ideas and arguments that I'm "supposedly" doing with really, nothing behind them to even give the slightest shred of evidence to even back up such a claim, all into MY MOUTH. What I see here is a continuous example of a player spinning ideas and words to somehow make actually fairly random ideas in my opinion make a big deal, which really, they hardly do.
And saying i'm actively TRYING to eliminate the more talkative players, being you and Notty? My initial assumption when actually reading those lines went through my head like a lightning bolt. To me, such a statement essentially says, because so and so are such a talkative player(s) and supposedly could be said are the "ones supposedly moving the thread forward" essentially elevates it to a position where it can be used as a bit of a threat to say that any acts done against this talkative group is bad for everyone, which is hardly true.
There are so many ideas and questions and words that just-- shouldn't be here.
However, I guess with this argument, the idea comes full circle I guess...
Because there is still a simple fact to give because honestly, there randomly became an uproar over something I honestly can't understand: Why did I even refer or talk about or give suspicion on whom I believe the Vigilante is? Because let's be honest, suddenly if I say such a thing I'm suddenly an alien right? Right?--- Of course not.
Let's bring up Balloon's quote once again:
I've had the feeling for awhile now, why this season "feels" so different and why I've had a dislike to that feeling for some time now, though I don't believe I ever could, or can, pinpoint it. I want to say I have a reasonable idea, but I guess I don't.
I continually see arguments being brought up that honestly, feel so silly to be brought up as arguments especially after SO MANY season's of instance's where such things have been perfectly acceptable and we have almost done basically every season. Suddenly people answering and asking question's are suddenly being suspected by Defiant despite the countless times its been done in the past, random comment on how "saying abstaining is a bad thing" gets one suspected despite many players, especially Defiant, being avid supporters of NOT abstaining since it does nothing for the game, and now--- this.
The answer to this question regarding the Vigilante: an easy thing to do.
Because honestly:
I hardly believe there is any "true" evidence against me, they all just feel like large, exaggerated ideas.
I've essentially always done this, and I believe numerous people have done the same in the past, and I'm not entirely sure "why" this is even an issue now, and not back then, or ever, really. May I ask the question, "Why not talk about suspicions of players?" Is this NOT mafia? Are we not allowed to speak up and talk about whom we believe are people's roles and others that we do not?
It seems we are so easily allowed to state whom we believe are Mafia, and whom we believe to be "innocent", and yet, somehow we are essentially banned, as if a giant "taboo" has come upon ever mentioning any other roles after being put in a position like this.
I've always done this, or at least, things in such a similar fashion they can be basically the same.
These have, and always will be, basic "assumptions" based on personal ideas, hunches, and given information at any given time.
"Say who are you suspicious of?" Someone would ask in one season.
Why, I would easily respond: "Oh, well, here's a little list of my hunches I have so far."
In fact, let's do a little bit of that right now, shall we?:
-Nottykitten feels like the Vigilante (despite role-claim)
-Jivvi I feel is Mafia
-Digitalmez I feel like is the most likely candidate for Serial killer
-Grimjowforever feels like a civilian
-Superstein feels more like a 3rd party more then anything
...and so on, and so on.
I've done this in the past, I will continue to do this in the future. The only "real reason" this is even being considered in the first place is because this somehow "puts a target on Notty."
Can I ask EVERYONE, just HOW? does this put a target on Notty? Especially over an ASSUMPTION? Because honestly, I don't see it. The only argument really that I can see as a reason are just a bunch of "what if's," and those aren't good enough to convince me.
Anyways, I feel like this is really only a special circumstance. If you actually read my previous post, I was discussing both you, Jivvi, and Notty. So, first off, I was never "taking a jab at Notty then putting that under the rug and taking a punch at you," or however you want to say a metaphor for it, because really, that's impossible.
For a good majority of my post in which I refer to Notty as the vigilante, I was talking about both Notty and Jivvi. However, "one does not simply accuse one of the two players i was talking about WITHOUT explaining WHY I DON'T BELIEVE THE OTHER ONE ISN'T MORE SUSPICIOUS.
If I did not explain my reasoning on why I trust Notty more so then Jivvi, then what would be the point in that post being there at all?
For my posts, I like to be as thorough as possible and respond to most details. Because 1) that's how I essentially play the game, and 2) that's my personality when it comes to writing basically ANYTHING.
I wanted to, and basically every player has a right to know why I didn't suspect Notty over you, and so, I did it. I had nothing to hide, and honestly, if anything, if Notty isn't suspicious then he really had nothing to hide at all when it came to that statement other than "Nope, I'm not vigilante. Wouldve loved to though." And basically, that would be that. That's how all of said assumptions have gone in the past, and really, once again, let us remind everyone that such a thing;
WAS AN ASSUMPTION. It's a hunch, a suspicion. It's not much to go on, but we believe it's worthwhile to be shared with everyone. If that freedom to speak one's mind has been lost in this game, then honestly, I don't want to be around for it to get that far.
In the end, I'll say it again: Honestly, I don't care if you suspect me or not. I try to never say I'm on one team or the other, rather just leave it up to whatever a player wants to think. If you think I'm town, good for you. If you're suspicious, then whatever, I don't really care or mind much.
If you're going to suspect me and vote for me: fine, as long as there's GOOD reason to do so.
However, if the reason to vote for me is 1) Your not dead yet, you must be Mafia #stupid stereotypes, or this:
So even if I was town, just because of a little comment that blew up over nothing, I'm better off not being in the game and alive? That sound's like an awfully rash, radical, and not well thought out of a plan. It sounds sooooooo similar to that silly vote back in--- Season 5? Lite 3? One of those?--- Where I believe it was Marn who wanted to vote of Jolt purely for being "quiet" and it was better to lynch of a person who doesn't participate in the discussion as often as a person wants em to be then keep in the game...
That sounds absolutely ridiculous and honestly, holds no water, ground, whatever, and makes no sense.
I'm fine with being suspected, just please: don't do it in this fashion, at least give a better reason on why you're voting.
Also, before I end:
Yeah, of course----
No. Absolutely not.
I do not give into random demands that I don't need to meet, nor need to even recognize.
I believe we already know I'm not one for "short and concise" posts. I'm not that kind of person, and its a difficulty I experience on a daily basis. It's hardly "beating around the bush" unless you think of it that way, and want to ignore a lot of ideas, theories, and nit-pick and many a thing.
I'm sorry to have disappointed you with another of JKangaroo's finest beer: A nice, tall glass of Long Post. I won't make an exception now, nor will I in the future. I'm not one for short-posts. If I can't do what I normally do and be myself when it comes to writing, then what AM I allowed to do?
Sorry, but I'm not going to change just because you want me to do something differently.
In the end, I don't really care much for these allegations. I still honestly stick by my claims presented earlier. Despite a role-claim, (and honestly, it doesn't matter what role you claim, you are still considered possible Mafia until you die, or are confirmed by a "confirmed" cop), I still believe Notty is okay, And really, this who'll debacle with me totally feels like a ploy to avoid me accusing you or rather, protecting Notty over nothing to push away the focus from you, Jivvi.
You're still my Number 1 suspicion in my book, you hardly seem trustworthy, especially after so many examples of spin-doctoring and putting words in my mouth that I've witnessed in these posts so far, and how, still, both you and Notty just seem to have everyone eating out of the palms of your hands.
It feels... a little like this, one could say:
Ugh, again, this came out more of a giant frustration ball more then I ever wanted it to end up as, but its frustrating redoing something like this 3 times over and over again, and I fear a lot of that frustration ended up in the post. Apologies, I really hate it when it happens like that. Nothing ever gets better explained in that way, though I hope I made my point clear enough.
Nottykitten
Nomnomnom kitteh!
First of all, I love your long posts. Theres lots of information in em.
Second:
1. You are an experienced player.
2. You say you think someone is the vig.
3. People knowing you are a good player you have a pretty big chance to be right.
4. Mafia wants the vig gone because it can be a danger to them. Doesn't know who else could be the vig so decides to go with the hunch of an experienced player.
That is how you put a target on my back. Sure, as you said somewhere in your post:
I'm not gonna vote for you because I still don't think you are mafia and I'm not sure about you being the serial killer. So my vote stays on Jeff.
Second:
It's pretty easy.
1. You are an experienced player.
2. You say you think someone is the vig.
3. People knowing you are a good player you have a pretty big chance to be right.
4. Mafia wants the vig gone because it can be a danger to them. Doesn't know who else could be the vig so decides to go with the hunch of an experienced player.
That is how you put a target on my back. Sure, as you said somewhere in your post:
Yes, its worthwhile to be shared with anyone. And anyone has the freedom to speak whatever they want. But if your role is with the town, you should not speak out who you think the vig, doctor or cop is. It brings nothing to the town except giving the mafia an idea of who the vig/cop/doctor might be. And thats bad.
I'm not gonna vote for you because I still don't think you are mafia and I'm not sure about you being the serial killer. So my vote stays on Jeff.
MY brain hurts after reading that. And pfft I am swayed to much with long posts. They just have so much information. Anyway, I am not going to feel like I can add anything in here for now. I change my vote to Abstain
balloon98
The balloon that never pops
Well abstaining basically is just voting for JKangaroo since it removes the votes needed for him to be out.
To be fair to go on my vote on 77 because of his eagerness to vote JKangaroo his non talkative ness or just adding nothing useful andsince of the other random vote.
77_is_the_best
To be fair to go on my vote on 77 because of his eagerness to vote JKangaroo his non talkative ness or just adding nothing useful andsince of the other random vote.
77_is_the_best
Just a short note:
I won't be checking the thread and replying as often for 3 weeks, and I won't be on at all on from 26th July until 5th of August. I'll make an effort to catch up once in a while though, so bear with me a little as my exams are in two+ weeks.
I won't be checking the thread and replying as often for 3 weeks, and I won't be on at all on from 26th July until 5th of August. I'll make an effort to catch up once in a while though, so bear with me a little as my exams are in two+ weeks.
superstein
Ex-Admin
I have not floated under the radar at all!
But I agree I did defend 77, and that could have been subconsciously because he did defend me, but the vote did seem pretty out of nowhere.
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