Heroes Balance and Suggestions
- Thread starter Ogarci
- Start date
Notme
Self-Aware Forum AI
Looks like environmental damage is inconsistent.
Lava, standing in fire, fall damage and drowning takes vanilla HP - you lose vanilla hearts at same speed (not counting enchanted armor) no matter what is your HP.
Lava damage could be nerfed, so you could rescue yourself.
Poison, hunger, being on fire and standing on magma blocks takes Heroes HP - making damage very underpowered for higher HP players.
I think they all should take certian percentage of health per second.
This way environmental damage would be fair for all players.
Full hunger means quick restoration of health - its Vanilla HP restoration, so this means low damage dealt on armored player with huge HP pool is essentially ignored as long as hunger bar is full.
Lava, standing in fire, fall damage and drowning takes vanilla HP - you lose vanilla hearts at same speed (not counting enchanted armor) no matter what is your HP.
Lava damage could be nerfed, so you could rescue yourself.
Poison, hunger, being on fire and standing on magma blocks takes Heroes HP - making damage very underpowered for higher HP players.
I think they all should take certian percentage of health per second.
This way environmental damage would be fair for all players.
Full hunger means quick restoration of health - its Vanilla HP restoration, so this means low damage dealt on armored player with huge HP pool is essentially ignored as long as hunger bar is full.
Frostbringer could do with a change;
1 fairly decent offensive projectile
3 mostly useless debuff spells that might annoy enemies at the most
2 other abilities that might be hit/miss (haven't rightly tested them)
1 ability (presumably AoE) listed in the T3 classes/skills sheet that cannot actually be accessed in the game.
my issues specifically are:
*entangle - duration of effect combined with an instant cancelling when target is hit by something makes this pretty pointless, unless there's a giant insta-squish thing about to hit right where your enemies happens to be standing in the next 5 seconds.
Would recommend replacing with a spell that either
a. 5 seconds + charisma mod without breaking on hit
b. longer duration that breaks on hit (number of hits maybe modified by charisma)
c. longer duration without breaking, but target cannot harm or be harmed until it wears off (duration again being determined partially by charisma)
*manafreeze - target must first use a good number of skills to deplete their mana before this really makes any difference in combat, and players have no way of seeing how much mana said target still has. Also, most melee characters don't use mana, further making this useless.
Would recommend replacing with a spell that either
a. drains target's mana by a set percentage (possibly returning that mana to the caster, if also replacing replenish)
b. silences target, preventing them from using any martial skills for a duration, possibly determined (if partially) by charisma
c. an exploding projectile that uses about as much mana as icebolt, but does a third or fourth the damage and is marked by a big fireworks explosion
*the google sheet with all the T3 classes on them posted by Jolteon says that frostbringer is supposed to get Frostblast at lvl 25, yet such skill does not exist in the game. What gives?
At any rate, I'd much appreciate it if frostbringer didn't end up being that useless class no one (other than frosty people) uses because it tries to be glass cannon and support and fails at both at the same time, and if any of my suggestions for replacing entangle and manafreeze seem a bit op or otherwise not good, feel free to come up with something else, as long as it works.
1 fairly decent offensive projectile
3 mostly useless debuff spells that might annoy enemies at the most
2 other abilities that might be hit/miss (haven't rightly tested them)
1 ability (presumably AoE) listed in the T3 classes/skills sheet that cannot actually be accessed in the game.
my issues specifically are:
*entangle - duration of effect combined with an instant cancelling when target is hit by something makes this pretty pointless, unless there's a giant insta-squish thing about to hit right where your enemies happens to be standing in the next 5 seconds.
Would recommend replacing with a spell that either
a. 5 seconds + charisma mod without breaking on hit
b. longer duration that breaks on hit (number of hits maybe modified by charisma)
c. longer duration without breaking, but target cannot harm or be harmed until it wears off (duration again being determined partially by charisma)
*manafreeze - target must first use a good number of skills to deplete their mana before this really makes any difference in combat, and players have no way of seeing how much mana said target still has. Also, most melee characters don't use mana, further making this useless.
Would recommend replacing with a spell that either
a. drains target's mana by a set percentage (possibly returning that mana to the caster, if also replacing replenish)
b. silences target, preventing them from using any martial skills for a duration, possibly determined (if partially) by charisma
c. an exploding projectile that uses about as much mana as icebolt, but does a third or fourth the damage and is marked by a big fireworks explosion
*the google sheet with all the T3 classes on them posted by Jolteon says that frostbringer is supposed to get Frostblast at lvl 25, yet such skill does not exist in the game. What gives?
At any rate, I'd much appreciate it if frostbringer didn't end up being that useless class no one (other than frosty people) uses because it tries to be glass cannon and support and fails at both at the same time, and if any of my suggestions for replacing entangle and manafreeze seem a bit op or otherwise not good, feel free to come up with something else, as long as it works.
BecomeDeath for Darkblade is literally a 2 minute waterbreathing skill and does nothing useful for combat whatsoever. Can we switch the skill to something more useful please?
Also the DarkBlade skill for Darkblade class is missing.
Also the DarkBlade skill for Darkblade class is missing.
Been ranting about it an awul ton and I apologize.. heh. But I wanna bring up the T2 spec Spellsword!
As ya know, Spellsword is the inbetween class between Mage and Cleric/Bard(<3)/ and Monk. And its bad.
Heres my gripes with it, and I hope maybe this could bring along some change to the spec.
First off, it's skill set.
The skills you can use (and that arent passives!) are as follows:
[BCOLOR=#ccffff]Smite[/BCOLOR] - 2sec cooldown - Decent touch range spell against mobs. Great for farming!
[BCOLOR=#ccffff]Meditate[/BCOLOR] - 10 sec cooldown - Lacks in effectiveness because of the low mana cost spells/lack of spells. At no point did I ever run out of mana.
[BCOLOR=#ccffff]Healing Surge[/BCOLOR] - 15 sec cooldown - A decent heal, though it is single target with a large cooldown.
[BCOLOR=#ccffff]Dispel[/BCOLOR] - 10 sec cooldown - Does not work on ingame effects, im not quite sure what it's use even is to be honest.
That is what the Spellsword has to use. A spell that is only useful for mob farming, another spell that gets mana back even though the costs aren't demanding, a decent heal with a long cooldown and requires precision to hit your friend, and some niche or non-functioning dispel.
You can only do damage with one spell and its only super-effective against [BCOLOR=#ccffff]mobs[/BCOLOR]. The heal is also passable, but thats it. Two useful spells.
Second, this came from the T1 Mage class?
You mean the mage class that has access to Fireball, Frostbolt, and Smite?
Fireball and Frostbolt were pretty great in their own right when used to burst down enemies, and were projectiles! Smite felt a bit out of touch since its a close-quarters spell but still useful none-of-the-less.
Where did any of this carry onto Spellsword? Since Spellsword builds off of this lower tier, why did it just get smite of all things?
Spellsword lacks the variety of spells that made Mage good, and because of this and it's lack of offensive spells, its ultimately worse than it's lower-tiered counterpart.
Third and final, what is it's purpose as of right now?
Its a spec that can use an iron sword, but lacks any sort of fighter-based abilities aside from its point n' click smite.
It has a healing spell, but it's high cooldown doesn't make it very viable to use and its easy to miss.
Its a jack of all trades class that lacks a skillset good enough to fit any sort of role. It's only redeeming factor is that it can use smite, so you can farm your way up to a real class.
Proposed Changes
1. Replace Meditate and Dispel with a projectile and a STR-based attack? Maybe a decent projectile mages are familiar with like Fireball, along with an ability that warriors can use that scale off of STR like Cleave. Meditate and Dispel do not help this class at all.
2. Buff the base STR of this class. It can use an Iron sword, but you need the STR to make use of that sword bonus. Could also be a good fit for a potential new STR skill.
3. Lower the cooldown on the heal by a small tad. Maybe 15 -> 12?
With this, I think it would give the Spellsword at least some sort of offensive potential. You can have the offensive capabilities of a warrior, the magic of a mage, and some healing on the side. It wouldnt be the best at either, but become a useful combination of all three. Much like a Red Mage in Final Fantasy idk.
What do you guys think?
As ya know, Spellsword is the inbetween class between Mage and Cleric/Bard(<3)/ and Monk. And its bad.
Heres my gripes with it, and I hope maybe this could bring along some change to the spec.
First off, it's skill set.
The skills you can use (and that arent passives!) are as follows:
[BCOLOR=#ccffff]Smite[/BCOLOR] - 2sec cooldown - Decent touch range spell against mobs. Great for farming!
[BCOLOR=#ccffff]Meditate[/BCOLOR] - 10 sec cooldown - Lacks in effectiveness because of the low mana cost spells/lack of spells. At no point did I ever run out of mana.
[BCOLOR=#ccffff]Healing Surge[/BCOLOR] - 15 sec cooldown - A decent heal, though it is single target with a large cooldown.
[BCOLOR=#ccffff]Dispel[/BCOLOR] - 10 sec cooldown - Does not work on ingame effects, im not quite sure what it's use even is to be honest.
That is what the Spellsword has to use. A spell that is only useful for mob farming, another spell that gets mana back even though the costs aren't demanding, a decent heal with a long cooldown and requires precision to hit your friend, and some niche or non-functioning dispel.
You can only do damage with one spell and its only super-effective against [BCOLOR=#ccffff]mobs[/BCOLOR]. The heal is also passable, but thats it. Two useful spells.
Second, this came from the T1 Mage class?
You mean the mage class that has access to Fireball, Frostbolt, and Smite?
Fireball and Frostbolt were pretty great in their own right when used to burst down enemies, and were projectiles! Smite felt a bit out of touch since its a close-quarters spell but still useful none-of-the-less.
Where did any of this carry onto Spellsword? Since Spellsword builds off of this lower tier, why did it just get smite of all things?
Spellsword lacks the variety of spells that made Mage good, and because of this and it's lack of offensive spells, its ultimately worse than it's lower-tiered counterpart.
Third and final, what is it's purpose as of right now?
Its a spec that can use an iron sword, but lacks any sort of fighter-based abilities aside from its point n' click smite.
It has a healing spell, but it's high cooldown doesn't make it very viable to use and its easy to miss.
Its a jack of all trades class that lacks a skillset good enough to fit any sort of role. It's only redeeming factor is that it can use smite, so you can farm your way up to a real class.
Proposed Changes
1. Replace Meditate and Dispel with a projectile and a STR-based attack? Maybe a decent projectile mages are familiar with like Fireball, along with an ability that warriors can use that scale off of STR like Cleave. Meditate and Dispel do not help this class at all.
2. Buff the base STR of this class. It can use an Iron sword, but you need the STR to make use of that sword bonus. Could also be a good fit for a potential new STR skill.
3. Lower the cooldown on the heal by a small tad. Maybe 15 -> 12?
With this, I think it would give the Spellsword at least some sort of offensive potential. You can have the offensive capabilities of a warrior, the magic of a mage, and some healing on the side. It wouldnt be the best at either, but become a useful combination of all three. Much like a Red Mage in Final Fantasy idk.
What do you guys think?
Do these changes sound good? Araidian
Spellsword:
Meditate replaced with Fireball.
Fireball:
level: 5
mana: 25
cooldown: 2000
Smite range increased (8 > 15)
Dispel increased with Wisdom (AoE mana regen aura)
Wisdom:
level: 30
mana: 50
cooldown: 18000
Spellsword:
Meditate replaced with Fireball.
Fireball:
level: 5
mana: 25
cooldown: 2000
Smite range increased (8 > 15)
Dispel increased with Wisdom (AoE mana regen aura)
Wisdom:
level: 30
mana: 50
cooldown: 18000
BrickWolf
The Concrete Dog
Can Megabolt be buffed slightly for Stormcasters? I know it also does AoE damage, but for an ability that costs 2 quartz and has a 20 second cooldown, it only does ~5 more damage than a regular Bolt and has less AoE spread than ChainLightning, making it feel like a lackluster major ability.
That sounds like it's meant to be more of a burst skill than regular use. Is the cd on regular bolt more than a few seconds?
I'd appreciate it if Tsunami was a bit wider, went a bit further, and was stronger than icebolt by more than just 2 damage.
It does have a 16 second cooldown and roughly double the mana cost of icebolt, and I don't like to think that it's because it can hit multiple grounded targets at a much shorter range.
Also, can make the use of bolt, chain lightning, or megabolt give its caster a brief glowing effect (1-3 seconds)? The fact that these spells don't use a projectile means that you can't tell where the attacker is casting from unless you're staring them in the face, so a stormcaster (for example) can easily be sneaking behind a shrub or something and just lightning you to death 9/10 times because you can't even tell where they are.
It does have a 16 second cooldown and roughly double the mana cost of icebolt, and I don't like to think that it's because it can hit multiple grounded targets at a much shorter range.
Also, can make the use of bolt, chain lightning, or megabolt give its caster a brief glowing effect (1-3 seconds)? The fact that these spells don't use a projectile means that you can't tell where the attacker is casting from unless you're staring them in the face, so a stormcaster (for example) can easily be sneaking behind a shrub or something and just lightning you to death 9/10 times because you can't even tell where they are.
Danni122112
The Drunk
Direct most of the heroes stuff to Jolterino ,since he has a more detailed overview of it than me.
However regarding the need for items for some spells, the main reason for to his lays with heroes not being very customizable. For example blink, which used to need redstone, had an option for how much redstone needed for the spell, the remainders might not have that option.
Not too sure if that's also mega bolt, I believe it was done so because t was a powerful spell, and bolt(I think it was) also required quartz ,at the time we looked into megabolt, so we figured out that removing the need for quartz on bolt would be a nice balance. Due to a lot of classes not needing it, we might be open to remove it on everything we can.
However regarding the need for items for some spells, the main reason for to his lays with heroes not being very customizable. For example blink, which used to need redstone, had an option for how much redstone needed for the spell, the remainders might not have that option.
Not too sure if that's also mega bolt, I believe it was done so because t was a powerful spell, and bolt(I think it was) also required quartz ,at the time we looked into megabolt, so we figured out that removing the need for quartz on bolt would be a nice balance. Due to a lot of classes not needing it, we might be open to remove it on everything we can.