PVP Discussion (from Villages thread)
- Thread starter Sour_Lemon
- Start date
Hockeyfan1852
Member
RFA got eatablished in the last month or so of the server. The player count was low for smp4 at the time with 7-10 online at peak and 3-5 online at night. Then you compare it to JtE which jad a low player count since June. It has had almost always zero players the last few months. No idea why we can't have shops and premade town have no pvp. This one feature makes the server more jte than smp4 there have been people who played jte and have waited nine months for something like smp4. (typed this on ipod at school sorry for any grammer/spelling errors)
Da Jinks
Political Nerd
Oh for petes sake Hockey give it up. This server is all PvP and the one area where it won't be will not hurt anyone! Also, you weren't on JtE towards the end, so where do you get the player count? Sure in the last month things were very low but since June? Since June we were having SMP4 numbers. Can we stop complaining about what you aren't getting and focus on what is being brought to the table? I'm very excited to see how Discordia is and works and let's focus on the good rather then the bad. You will never make everyone happy, and for all we are trying to make you and other people who want full PvP happy we must try and accommodate the people who DON'T want PvP.
Hockeyfan1852
Member
is it that hard to build creative defences or stick together as a clan. Seriouly, you could put back the raid rule and cut it to twice a day instead of three times a day. It is not that hard to look at the sign or type /glist to see who is on the server. (Will be able to reply more at lunch)
Undefined User 7
Psychosomatic
Hockey, you are fighting an unwinnable argument. SparklyMuffinz, Superstein, AND GmK have all stated that this is how things will be. You don't have to play the server if you're in such disagreement. Please cease this pointless argument though. This issue is long ended, many of us were sick of it to begin with.
gay vampire
Little Miss Organs
Guys, just stop. Please leave your debating and arguing somewhere else, as we've had enough of the PvP debate. Neither of the people defending or attacking the PvP protection are doing ANY good leaving it on here. We want to look forward to a positive server village system, and seeing we've already left MANY posts about the PvP protection thing, and have already gotten an admin to respond to it to tell you to stop already, it's just starting to get irritating. I'd really prefer it if we would look forward to the positive aspects on this, not the negative ones. If we can't stop arguing about the PvP protection feature to villages, this thread might get (well deserved for the thread if this continues) locked.
Don't look at what in your opinion are the negative aspects of the village and try to look at the positive ones. Depending on how it goes the admins might change the PvP protection to configurable for villages. Can we PLEASE move on.
Sploorky
Member
http://blocktopia.net/forum/threads/announcement-regarding-smp-and-full-half-full-pvp.14003/
http://blocktopia.net/forum/threads/announcement-regarding-smp-and-full-half-full-pvp.14003/
http://blocktopia.net/forum/threads/announcement-regarding-smp-and-full-half-full-pvp.14003/
Hockeyfan1852 I do not get it. You express unhappiness over JtE's protection of PvP, and when the area where you can PvP is increased TENFOLD, you still nitpick. Maybe if people didn't go around killing everyone they see and making others unhappy through excessive pvp, we wouldn't need town protection.
SMP4 was not a haven, nor a perfect server. Elysium wasn't either. They both handled pvp differently, and they both made people unhappy because of the way they handled it. Head staff aim to make everyone happy, not one small group ecstatic.
The fact that you're even throwing around judgement on a server that's been in development for months before it is even released is the biggest slap in the face for those who have worked on it.
And yes, Elysium's numbers haven't been well in the past few months. We know.
Please cut out all tomfoolery in this thread and reread what GmK posted. He said it in the perfect way, and I thank him for taking the time out of his morning to make that thread.
Sploorky out.
http://blocktopia.net/forum/threads/announcement-regarding-smp-and-full-half-full-pvp.14003/
http://blocktopia.net/forum/threads/announcement-regarding-smp-and-full-half-full-pvp.14003/
Hockeyfan1852 I do not get it. You express unhappiness over JtE's protection of PvP, and when the area where you can PvP is increased TENFOLD, you still nitpick. Maybe if people didn't go around killing everyone they see and making others unhappy through excessive pvp, we wouldn't need town protection.
SMP4 was not a haven, nor a perfect server. Elysium wasn't either. They both handled pvp differently, and they both made people unhappy because of the way they handled it. Head staff aim to make everyone happy, not one small group ecstatic.
The fact that you're even throwing around judgement on a server that's been in development for months before it is even released is the biggest slap in the face for those who have worked on it.
And yes, Elysium's numbers haven't been well in the past few months. We know.
Please cut out all tomfoolery in this thread and reread what GmK posted. He said it in the perfect way, and I thank him for taking the time out of his morning to make that thread.
Sploorky out.
JohnOgozalek
Forever Shining
The perfect thing to come home to on a half-a-day.
http://blocktopia.net/forum/threads...smp-and-full-half-full-pvp.14003/#post-246883
Thank you to GmK for the thread, as Sploorky said, I really appreciate you took time out of your day to type that up.
Couldn't have said it better. This is just ridiculous. This negative attitude really disappoints me. It really does.
http://blocktopia.net/forum/threads...smp-and-full-half-full-pvp.14003/#post-246883
Thank you to GmK for the thread, as Sploorky said, I really appreciate you took time out of your day to type that up.
Shinyshark
Professional innuendo creator/finder.
I will give my opinion on this. This opinion is based on experience and expectations.
The playerbase of blocktopia will not be able to live with the PvP in their SMP server unless radical changes are brought upon.
Having played in this community for a while, I have seen many SMP servers deal with PvP. The PvPrs and builders always have a heated discussion with each other. While the builders outlast the PvPrs, mostly because the PvPrs get hated for no logical or fair reason, they still do tend to win at least something in the end. Primordia had PvP except for safezones. Stealing was still allowed and your chest had to be accessible at any times.
These are the arguments I will use.
1a.
Anger and rage is generated from people having their stuff stolen, I too was guilty of this fact.
2a.
Dying and losing your inventory is always annoying.
2b.
Because you get punished for showing rage to someone, it's either being pent up or vented behind the scene.
2c.
This resulted into bans, which lead to behind the scenes discussions about it.
3a.
The staff have not used an effective way to fight this problem.
4a.
Some people lack the required equipment to have an equal chance at fighting. This includes hardware as well as in-game items and groups/relations.
5a.
An arms race is unavoidable with enchanting around the corner.
6a.
PvP logging is unavoidable at the moment.
7a.
Being a non-profit community, you get a smaller player base than a profit community.
7b.
A smaller player base results into reoccurring arguments.
1a. Anger and rage is generated from people having their stuff stolen. This argument is based on the values. While a select amount of people, enough to count on one hand, is able to control themselves enough to keep it civil, a far larger amount of people is not able to control this. If you got robbed, you could do nothing about it. You can hopefully remember when you called over a staff member to check for grief or anything illegal in the hopes of you getting your items back. I've seen it happen countless times. In all cases, only 20% was actually illegal.
2a. Dying and losing your inventory is always annoying. This is a common fact. Losing progress if it is not needed or your own fault is always annoying. You die, you have to return to get your stuff. You cannot log off and forget about it, because your stuff will be gone. If you get killed by a player, your stuff is already gone. You can log off, you can rage at yourself and open up your steam chat window and starts trash talking about Danni who killed you and took your golden apples. No one can prevent you from doing that, because no one is authorized to do so. Blocktopia cannot and never will be able to check Steam to see if you've done this, blocktopia can only expect that you do not do this.
2b. As said before: Blocktopia has a low swearing policy. Calling someone an asshole will grant you a 'warning' whether that is systematic or verbal. This is very well known within the community. Players log of and talk to other people on third party programs, such as steam, about this instead. Blocktopia cannot control and check Steam, as said before, and can only expect that this does not happen. This is, in my opinion, a large problem within the community.
2c. And sometimes they do not use third party programs to vent. There has been bans based on rage generated by being robbed. When you get robbed you could have a hard time controlling your vocabulary and it is not uncommon to start swearing uncontrollably. Blocktopia has a very low swearing tolerance policy. You cannot swear too much. Saying "fucking asshole" will get you banned almost instantly.
3a. Argument 1a and 2c lead to staff getting anxious. It's very natural that these are reoccurring problems. The game goes on, rules keep getting broken. However, what I have noticed is that the staff team has always decided to back out of PvP. Slowly but clearly PvP would vanish more and more. At first there was an entire world dedicated to PvP, then there was safezones to protect you from PvP. Eventually there were PvP zones or PvP weekends. I think that this is a useless way of fighting the problem, as you're giving in to one group.
4a. Some people simply lack the required equipment. Your minecraft lags because you have an old PC. You do not have super enchanted gear. You do not have groups of people to help you. You can counter this yourself, blocktopia cannot counter it for you, but blocktopia feels obliged to help you whenever you can and will make it harder to reach god-tier enchantments. Factions were an implementation that helps you be part of a group, even if you have no friends in Blocktopia at all.
5a. As stated in argument 4a: not everyone can keep up with the arms race. Grinding experience is boring and I'd rather not do it but it is unavoidable in an all out PvP world. If you want to be the best PvPer, you will have to use the best gear to keep up with the rest. If I grind hours long and get great gear, people will have to do the same to keep up with me. We create an unrealistic sense of PvP because only few of us have the ambition to grind for hours. Some of us do not have the time to do this, even if we wanted to.
6a. PvP logging is unavoidable. You log off, there's an NPC left in your place. There's a reason that it is against the rules, and that is because it still happens. The plugin won't stop players from logging out and while it does serve its purpose in most cases, there's still cases where this does not help.
7a. Being a non-profit community, you get a smaller player base than a profit community. Other communities can offer you benefits for donating. Unlimited creative mode, spawning of items, god tier armor et cetera. Blocktopia is a non-profit community. They do not give you those benefits because they do not wish to rake in loads of money. They want to cover their server costs and then they do not accept additional donations. Communities where you can donate for benefits tend to have a wider player base due to reoccurring fact that those communities tend to get controversy with their reputation. 'Pay2Play' or 'Elitist' are common popularity brands. This turns attention to the community, as it has done with Miley Cyrus and her 'Wrecking ball' performance. It's not bad to try it, so people give the server a chance. Profit communities allow growth because they get money that they can invest. Paying coders $150 to update or code new servers that can only be played in that community (think of Annihilation! in Shotbow) draw players to that community. Non-profit communities are usually made for friends and fun, and they will have a hard time growing unless the owner decides to pump a lot of money into it.
7b. A smaller player base results into reoccurring arguments. This is not entirely true, so this argument can be seen as a fallacy. I have noticed that players use the same arguments to defend their standpoint. "PvP is bad because it makes people angry." "PvP isn't bad because there's no reason to get angry." Reoccurring arguments like these are not useful as they weigh nothing compared to the actual problem. There is reasons to get angry, there is reasons why PvP is good.
My conclusion is: The playerbase of blocktopia will not be able to live with the PvP in their SMP server unless radical changes are brought upon. Blocktopia cannot prevent people from using third party programs to gossip or argue. People cannot stand losing, especially not when you lose a whole lot of progress. Staff tend to dim down on PvP in the hopes that it will settle itself. Advantages because you are wealthier or have more time to spend result in 'unfair' arms races. Situations that make PvP bad, such as PvP logging, can only be dealt with by staff. And being a non-profit community, blocktopia has less space to grow and a smaller playerbase.
The playerbase of blocktopia will not be able to live with the PvP in their SMP server unless radical changes are brought upon.
Having played in this community for a while, I have seen many SMP servers deal with PvP. The PvPrs and builders always have a heated discussion with each other. While the builders outlast the PvPrs, mostly because the PvPrs get hated for no logical or fair reason, they still do tend to win at least something in the end. Primordia had PvP except for safezones. Stealing was still allowed and your chest had to be accessible at any times.
These are the arguments I will use.
1a.
Anger and rage is generated from people having their stuff stolen, I too was guilty of this fact.
2a.
Dying and losing your inventory is always annoying.
2b.
Because you get punished for showing rage to someone, it's either being pent up or vented behind the scene.
2c.
This resulted into bans, which lead to behind the scenes discussions about it.
3a.
The staff have not used an effective way to fight this problem.
4a.
Some people lack the required equipment to have an equal chance at fighting. This includes hardware as well as in-game items and groups/relations.
5a.
An arms race is unavoidable with enchanting around the corner.
6a.
PvP logging is unavoidable at the moment.
7a.
Being a non-profit community, you get a smaller player base than a profit community.
7b.
A smaller player base results into reoccurring arguments.
1a. Anger and rage is generated from people having their stuff stolen. This argument is based on the values. While a select amount of people, enough to count on one hand, is able to control themselves enough to keep it civil, a far larger amount of people is not able to control this. If you got robbed, you could do nothing about it. You can hopefully remember when you called over a staff member to check for grief or anything illegal in the hopes of you getting your items back. I've seen it happen countless times. In all cases, only 20% was actually illegal.
2a. Dying and losing your inventory is always annoying. This is a common fact. Losing progress if it is not needed or your own fault is always annoying. You die, you have to return to get your stuff. You cannot log off and forget about it, because your stuff will be gone. If you get killed by a player, your stuff is already gone. You can log off, you can rage at yourself and open up your steam chat window and starts trash talking about Danni who killed you and took your golden apples. No one can prevent you from doing that, because no one is authorized to do so. Blocktopia cannot and never will be able to check Steam to see if you've done this, blocktopia can only expect that you do not do this.
2b. As said before: Blocktopia has a low swearing policy. Calling someone an asshole will grant you a 'warning' whether that is systematic or verbal. This is very well known within the community. Players log of and talk to other people on third party programs, such as steam, about this instead. Blocktopia cannot control and check Steam, as said before, and can only expect that this does not happen. This is, in my opinion, a large problem within the community.
2c. And sometimes they do not use third party programs to vent. There has been bans based on rage generated by being robbed. When you get robbed you could have a hard time controlling your vocabulary and it is not uncommon to start swearing uncontrollably. Blocktopia has a very low swearing tolerance policy. You cannot swear too much. Saying "fucking asshole" will get you banned almost instantly.
3a. Argument 1a and 2c lead to staff getting anxious. It's very natural that these are reoccurring problems. The game goes on, rules keep getting broken. However, what I have noticed is that the staff team has always decided to back out of PvP. Slowly but clearly PvP would vanish more and more. At first there was an entire world dedicated to PvP, then there was safezones to protect you from PvP. Eventually there were PvP zones or PvP weekends. I think that this is a useless way of fighting the problem, as you're giving in to one group.
4a. Some people simply lack the required equipment. Your minecraft lags because you have an old PC. You do not have super enchanted gear. You do not have groups of people to help you. You can counter this yourself, blocktopia cannot counter it for you, but blocktopia feels obliged to help you whenever you can and will make it harder to reach god-tier enchantments. Factions were an implementation that helps you be part of a group, even if you have no friends in Blocktopia at all.
5a. As stated in argument 4a: not everyone can keep up with the arms race. Grinding experience is boring and I'd rather not do it but it is unavoidable in an all out PvP world. If you want to be the best PvPer, you will have to use the best gear to keep up with the rest. If I grind hours long and get great gear, people will have to do the same to keep up with me. We create an unrealistic sense of PvP because only few of us have the ambition to grind for hours. Some of us do not have the time to do this, even if we wanted to.
6a. PvP logging is unavoidable. You log off, there's an NPC left in your place. There's a reason that it is against the rules, and that is because it still happens. The plugin won't stop players from logging out and while it does serve its purpose in most cases, there's still cases where this does not help.
7a. Being a non-profit community, you get a smaller player base than a profit community. Other communities can offer you benefits for donating. Unlimited creative mode, spawning of items, god tier armor et cetera. Blocktopia is a non-profit community. They do not give you those benefits because they do not wish to rake in loads of money. They want to cover their server costs and then they do not accept additional donations. Communities where you can donate for benefits tend to have a wider player base due to reoccurring fact that those communities tend to get controversy with their reputation. 'Pay2Play' or 'Elitist' are common popularity brands. This turns attention to the community, as it has done with Miley Cyrus and her 'Wrecking ball' performance. It's not bad to try it, so people give the server a chance. Profit communities allow growth because they get money that they can invest. Paying coders $150 to update or code new servers that can only be played in that community (think of Annihilation! in Shotbow) draw players to that community. Non-profit communities are usually made for friends and fun, and they will have a hard time growing unless the owner decides to pump a lot of money into it.
7b. A smaller player base results into reoccurring arguments. This is not entirely true, so this argument can be seen as a fallacy. I have noticed that players use the same arguments to defend their standpoint. "PvP is bad because it makes people angry." "PvP isn't bad because there's no reason to get angry." Reoccurring arguments like these are not useful as they weigh nothing compared to the actual problem. There is reasons to get angry, there is reasons why PvP is good.
My conclusion is: The playerbase of blocktopia will not be able to live with the PvP in their SMP server unless radical changes are brought upon. Blocktopia cannot prevent people from using third party programs to gossip or argue. People cannot stand losing, especially not when you lose a whole lot of progress. Staff tend to dim down on PvP in the hopes that it will settle itself. Advantages because you are wealthier or have more time to spend result in 'unfair' arms races. Situations that make PvP bad, such as PvP logging, can only be dealt with by staff. And being a non-profit community, blocktopia has less space to grow and a smaller playerbase.
RyanDodd
Ex - Army of Darkness Director
This discussion is really quite stupid, for lack of a better word. Have you ever tried to run a popular server? If you have, then you obviously know that catering to every single need and want is simply not possible! I see this as a greedy discussion, to be honest. Seems like you are angry that you won't get to kill someone because they are in their house and actually enjoying the server as it was intended, since it is survival multiplayer. The purpose of any SMP server is not to kill everyone in sight and make their time on the server miserable, it's to have fun, build, gather resources, possibly start a town, and so much more. Your home is considered a safe haven. It's a place you can go to unwind and relax. Why should that change on Minecraft? Sure, some people love to kill others in the game, but most people want their home to be a place where they can feel safe and not be threatened by PvPers who are worried about nothing but KDR. If you read that right, then you saw "most people want their home to be a place where they can feel safe". Give the directors some credit, they were catering to what most of the players would want, not just a small group of people.
Shinyshark
Professional innuendo creator/finder.
So many fallacies.
1. This is not an argument.
2. You're 'playing the public.' An example: "Everyone who's not a complete idiot knows that this is not true."
3. You base an argument on an opinion, but you don't clarify it.
4. You're 'distorting the position'. An example: "Blocktopia claims to want and create a fun server, but in reality they just need to shut their players up."
5. You're distorting the position again.
6. You're comparing your argument to a different SMP server. That isn't possible here, because this server isn't comparable to a different SMP server. You cannot define what this SMP server should and will be, because it's not trying to copy any other SMP.
7. Your argument is based on hasted generalization. An example: "This admin is a cunt, the entire staff team is bad."
Your argumentation is in need of improvement before you start using it. You try to help the directors, but doing it like this is not the way.
Jubjubers
Best BuildBox Guy 2011 - 2013
They made a good decision. Stop bitching to get what you want and not what everyone else wants.
The current placements were obviously discussed prior and should not be moaned about.
Edit: Hockeyfan1852
The current placements were obviously discussed prior and should not be moaned about.
Edit: Hockeyfan1852
Hockeyfan1852
Member
It's not only me though. Superstein post got hidden due to low ratings and the beginning of this thread people were in agreement that it needs to be changed but now since it is being bashed no one wants to stand up and are scared to state their opinions after watching a ton of posts getting disliked and countered.
RyanDodd
Ex - Army of Darkness Director
I disagree. It is people like you who always gripe about everything and nearly always find a flaw in someone's argument who make people not want to stand up. Or maybe they just like the PvP disabled in towns.
SalientGorilla
The Brutal Create Dictator
Not sure if this has already been asked. However, (sorry if it has) say I attack someone, they run off BUT I'm still chasing them and they run into a Village which has pvp protection, would this be allowed?
http://blocktopia.net/forum/threads/weekend-of-war.13562/
It did happen, though I suspect your both going to end up vastly exaggerating your sides rather than trying to get any factual information you can use.
