Republic - Completed

[Infected_alien8_]

Hey, I like this plan but instead, why not have reticent/vengeful/whistleblower comprise the three council town members? No need to have the bulletproof make themselves visible, and whistleblower isn't affected by council activities.

This was discussed last game too, but in the end it was decided by most people(?) that whistleblower is better unclaimed since if it dies it's really useful & having bulletproof in there makes Mafia reluctant to kill one of them since they could waste it on the bulletproof (we don't claim which of the three we are, just that we're one of them)

 

[Infected_alien8_]

yeah, so at this time I feel there are obvious ways which the mafia could abuse if we go with yesterdays plan. I'd rather fill the council with a bunch of randoms because If the mafia were to make an attempt to fully takeover the council it would give us a lot of information and lead us to lynching mafia, but if we go with the plan last game I think the mafia would have too easy a time making sure none of them join the council. Therefore, I'm going to go with the vote randoms and resume my previous vote.

Vote: Myusername22, Sploorky, Aqua, Dess, Hunter

If Mafia take over council they can force a Mafia dictatorship and if they do that twice they essentially have an unkillable Mafia dictator resulting in a Town loss

 

[Hunter]

This was discussed last game too, but in the end it was decided by most people(?) that whistleblower is better unclaimed since if it dies it's really useful & having bulletproof in there makes Mafia reluctant to kill one of them since they could waste it on the bulletproof (we don't claim which of the three we are, just that we're one of them)

Having whistleblower is better because if they die, it benefits town. But then there'd be one less alignment revealed, I suppose. Either way works

 

[Infected_alien8_]

Having whistleblower is better because if they die, it benefits town. But then there'd be one less alignment revealed, I suppose. Either way works

Yeah but if Mafia knows the Whistleblower is there and they know one of their Mafia is also there, they won't risk killing the Whistleblower

 

[Hunter]

Yeah but either way we'd want to not lynch the clears so 50/50 the maf in that situation gets lynched anyway. Plus it discourages maf from attempting to kill the unccd towns

 

[Hunter]

I'd say have three of the four roles speak up, vote in whoever three speak first, then if one of the members dies, have the fourth speak up to replace them without any of the roles being revealed

 

[Danni122112]

Aqua fucked the council last game.
This was due to a not so ideal mechanic that has now been changed.
This lead to us having to chose a dictator

The council decided to elect me as dictator, a previously unclaimed role which was, well not exactly impressive.
All during this process Aqua is trying to get himself elected, while yelling that I’m the revolutionarie guy in caps lock, saying we were all throwing the game (ironic).

I’m in favour of same plan as last time, due to the council being less easy to fuck over, but make sure we have a plan and a backup plan in case anything happens.
It could easily have gone wrong last time, while it didn’t matter due to game ending, I was town, but could easily have been otherwise.


Will be lurking a bit due to exams, or maybe procrastinating a lot here, who knows!

 

[Scrable]

...I'll just say, the plans changed once Aqua fucked it up.
The aim was to oust Danni on the same day, so the risk was still kept at a minimum, especially with the three still being alive and taking over the council.
I do support the same tactic as well. It wasn't exactly tested yet, but since each mafia is unique anyway, I'm also open to a different kind of approach.

 

[Ltin]

It should be noted that the idea was dreamed up by Notty, who was mafia, and probably thought it would play into the mafia's hands

 

[Enderfive]

honestly i'm surprised you didn't foresee that aqua would take the opportunity to fuck everything up as he always does lmao

in any case i haven't put any new thought into how day 1 should progress so i don't have anything new to add right now

i do find it interesting that myu and hunter want to be in the council though, so i kinda want to know why that is

 

[Danni122112]

i do find it interesting that myu and hunter want to be in the council though, so i kinda want to know why that is

Trust no one in mafia, I guess?

I don’t really see much of a benefit of being in the council, for most townies at least.

 

[HKCaper]

It should be noted that the idea was dreamed up by Notty, who was mafia, and probably thought it would play into the mafia's hands

This is why im a bit wary of simply doing the same thing. In theory it's a good plan yes, but there are risks. I wish to point one thing out that was mentioned briefly in last council meeting.

Aqua and danni (both town) got elected quite easily without much resistance from anyone else. By electing 3 confirmes townies into rep, we can only lynch out of the remaining 2, which makes it more likely we'll lynch a townie. Then we have to add 1 more person as rep, who is also more likely to be townie (unless succesful subpoena).

 

[Unusual_Dood]

The problem with going with the same plan as yesterday is that mafias easily can avoid getting elected and we will most likely end up with 5 townies in the council, and we will have to either start lynching a townie or several(depending on the subpoena). If we didn't dissolve the council last game, this would have happened.

 

[Infected_alien8_]

Yeah but either way we'd want to not lynch the clears so 50/50 the maf in that situation gets lynched anyway. Plus it discourages maf from attempting to kill the unccd towns

We don't have a guarantee 50/50 that there's a Mafia in the council

The problem with going with the same plan as yesterday is that mafias easily can avoid getting elected and we will most likely end up with 5 townies in the council, and we will have to either start lynching a townie or several(depending on the subpoena). If we didn't dissolve the council last game, this would have happened.

If people don't just mindlessly bandwagon then the Mafia shouldn't be able to decide who gets elected or not, there's 7 of them and 18 of us

 

[Infected_alien8_]

This is why im a bit wary of simply doing the same thing. In theory it's a good plan yes, but there are risks. I wish to point one thing out that was mentioned briefly in last council meeting.

Aqua and danni (both town) got elected quite easily without much resistance from anyone else. By electing 3 confirmes townies into rep, we can only lynch out of the remaining 2, which makes it more likely we'll lynch a townie. Then we have to add 1 more person as rep, who is also more likely to be townie (unless succesful subpoena).

Yeah that's definitely a drawback but as far as I can tell it's still the optimal strategy since the amazing Autocrat plan was ruined

 

[Nottykitten]

How about we try a different strategy for this game instead. The gameplan is pretty easy and is mostly about killing off anti-town pretty quickly at the start while we still can:

1) We massclaim.
2) Mafia all claims citizen because CC'ing any other role is complete suicide when we know everyones role. Revo probs will aswell.
3) We'll have a pool of 13 proven(!) town PR's and a pool of 13 unproven citizen claims(of which only 5 are actuall town which makes for a 8/13 chance to hit a non-town). Even if they don't all claim citizen for some reason we can block/murder the CC's to death.
4) Town installs 5 of the claimed town PR's on the council.
5) Council of town PR's elects an unknown dictator so the Mafia won't know who it is untill morning.
6) Both the assassin and dictator use their nightkills to slaughter the citizen claims that night.
7) 4 people die that night, 2 from the citizen pool and 2 from the PR pool(revo + mafia kill. Revo will kill a council member trying to kill the dictator and mafia will kill the assassin. Surprisinly our doctor should live this night as long ass we dont elect our doctor into the council.).
8) During the day 1 person is poisoned and we can also lynch 1 citizen claim. Giving the town essentially more kills than the anti-towns because the anti-towns have 2 nightkills + poison and the town has 2 nightkills + a lynch.
9) At this point the dictator is known and also with 3 citizen claims dead it's extremely likely that we killed 2 anti-town at that point which is really nice because if one of those happens to be the Mafia bus driver or poisoner this game is won. During the evening theres 10 citizen claims left and 11 proven town PR's.
10) Mafia will nightkill the now known dictator using their bus driver + nightkill. Dictator still gets to nightkill another citizen claim.
11) 3 people die at night, 1 from the citizen pool and 2 from the PR pool(toxicologist saves the poisoned person, dictator + probs doctor are now dead). 9 citizen claims left and 9 town PR claims left. We can fairly assume that at this point 2-3 Mafia are dead and atleast one of their strong PR's(bus driver/poisoner). If we're really lucky we kill the revo instead which we ofcourse have a 4/13 chance to do with 4 kills.
12) We can't lynch since dictator is dead so we elect 4 proven town PR's again. We install another dictator and they murder another citizen claim(keep in mind the citizen claim will be roleblocked so that could easely stop a Mafia both the night before and this night).

Where we go from here really isn't that predictable unless we know which anti-town we have killed. If at any point we kill the revo we've practically won as anti-town nightkills go from 2 to 1. If at any point we kill the bus-driver or poisoner our advantage grows alot aswell. Most of this plan is just rng/luck on who we nightkill but I give it a good 8/13 (62%) chance for the town to win this.

 

[HKCaper]

Mafia games never play out as planned.

 

[Nottykitten]

Mafia games never play out as planned.

Only when Aqua randomly gamethrows as town and rips our council plan.

And if you don't like my plan I would like you to remember that while we as town we can kill one person every day/night cycle via a lynch (which in democracy is limited to 5 people), while the anti-town have a nightkill, a rev kill and a poisoner. Unless youre counting the assassin poison aswell which in 90% of the situations just kills a town member or hits a Mafia who then is healed by their own poison so they don't really do anything except hurt town.

Do you really think with 1 town kill(not even guaranteed on anti-town) stands any single chance against 3+ anti-town kills per day/night cycle?

 

[LISTINGS09]

I don’t really see much of a benefit of being in the council, for most townies at least.

Agreed, especially when one of the representatives must be killed each day. Dictator seems the way to go.

 

[Aqua]

11) 3 people die at night, 1 from the citizen pool and 2 from the PR pool(toxicologist saves the poisoned person, dictator + probs doctor are now dead). 9 citizen claims left and 9 town PR claims left. We can fairly assume that at this point 2-3 Mafia are dead and atleast one of their strong PR's(bus driver/poisoner). If we're really lucky we kill the revo instead which we ofcourse have a 4/13 chance to do with 4 kills.

How can we assume any of this?

Even if you are right and we do kill 2-3 mafia (which is unlikely as out of the 3 citizen pool night kills night 1 and 2 and the following day lynch the percentage of hitting mafia isn't that high as the ratio is 5:7)

how in anyway can you assume "atleast one of their strong PR's" is dead??

if 3 mafia are dead that's still 3:7 so even after all 4 night kills and if your assumption is correct and we kill 3 mafia, it's still more likely niether of the two suggested pr's are dead (with it being a 28% chance n1 and a 40% chance n2).

This strategy is never in our favour

and in regards to this little ditty

Only when Aqua randomly gamethrows as town and rips our council plan.

And if you don't like my plan I would like you to remember that while we as town we can kill one person every day/night cycle via a lynch (which in democracy is limited to 5 people), while the anti-town have a nightkill, a rev kill and a poisoner. Unless youre counting the assassin poison aswell which in 90% of the situations just kills a town member or hits a Mafia who then is healed by their own poison so they don't really do anything except hurt town.

Do you really think with 1 town kill(not even guaranteed on anti-town) stands any single chance against 3+ anti-town kills per day/night cycle?

For those who aren't aware since they didn't find out the role list of last game, but our pro town saving grace nottykitty was actually mafia.

The fact that she's trying to pass of any reason for her "protown" plan not working is because of my "gamethrow" when clearly she will have thought of some other strategy for mafia to win exploiting this plan is really sketchy. It's like she's trying to brush the fact she was mafia last game under the rug so people who aren't aware will blindly trust her again so she can exploit them.

This strategy seems completely floored and if we got mildly unlucky would easily result in town losing fast.

 

[TheWeakGuy48_]

I think we should proceed with the strat that was worked out last game. Myuser, would you care explaining why you would want the people in the council to be randomly elected?

 

[Nottykitten]

The fact that she's trying to pass of any reason for her "protown" plan not working is because of my "gamethrow" when clearly she will have thought of some other strategy for mafia to win exploiting this plan is really sketchy. It's like she's trying to brush the fact she was mafia last game under the rug so people who aren't aware will blindly trust her again so she can exploit them.

Excuse me? Trying to pass off what? Im simply talking about how you gamethrew last game when we had a plan in place. Even though I was Mafia theres still 25 other people who agreed with it and found it to be the best solution. So essentially the entire town agrees to following this plan and then you decide to instead to force a dictatorship by changing your vote last second and instead of installing one of the proven town players you install another non-proven person. The plan was decent but flawed but ofcourse I wasn't going to point out those flaws as Mafia.

Also you can put gamethrow in quotation marks all you want, but literally breaking game rules and telling everyone in discord lounge who the new dictator is and then saying you messed up the towns plan for the LULZ is pretty much gamethrowing.

How can we assume any of this?

By using logic and assuming the Mafia is going to play optimally with the scenario laid out to them so that if they do deviate from this it will always be worse for them and better for us. Making us able to make pretty good assumptions.

Even if you are right and we do kill 2-3 mafia (which is unlikely as out of the 3 citizen pool night kills night 1 and 2 and the following day lynch the percentage of hitting mafia isn't that high as the ratio is 5:7)

You say it's unlikely but out of the 3 different kills the night kills have an 8/13 (62%) chance to kill an anti-town and the day lynch has anywhere from a 6/11 (54%) to an 8/11 (72%) chance to lynch an anti-town. So it really isn't unlikely that we get 2 anti-town the first day/night cycle. Add to that the chance of an anti-town kill being blocked by the submersive/blocked by the dictator (both 1/13 (8%) chance but still could happen) and you have something that resembles a town advantage.

how in anyway can you assume "atleast one of their strong PR's" is dead??

if 3 mafia are dead that's still 3:7 so even after all 4 night kills and if your assumption is correct and we kill 3 mafia, it's still more likely niether of the two suggested pr's are dead (with it being a 28% chance n1 and a 40% chance n2).

Cuz I'm optimistic like that. Maybe assume is the wrong word there but 3/4 dead still gives it a decent chance atleast one of the two strong PR's is dead. If not the game is maybe a 50/50 at that point, but if one is dead then then town really gains an edge.

This strategy is never in our favour

This strategy seems completely floored and if we got mildly unlucky would easily result in town losing fast.

Except it is in our favour when literally 13 of our town players are proven and we have a nice pool of people to murder from. Yes we lose if we get unlucky and we kill 2-3 citizens but thats always true with any strategy and taking any odds. If we play this strategy a hundred times we'll win more than we'll lose and a winning strategy is one that we should take.

Also if you don't like the strategy come up with a better one then because even when this strategy is mostly a chancefest it's still the best strategy I've seen proposed so far, and it's far better than putting randoms in the council.

 

[Unusual_Dood]

Can't the mafias just use the bus driver ability on the toxicologist (making the role useless) and kill the assassin so that rev + mafias have 3 kills while town only 2 in the night + day circle after night 1?

 

[Enderfive]

Nottykitten your plan is purely based on luck in basically every step and is in no way a smart play

a couple of specific points i'd like to argue

2) Mafia all claims citizen because CC'ing any other role is complete suicide when we know everyones role. Revo probs will aswell.

this won't happen

3) We'll have a pool of 13 proven(!) town PR's and a pool of 13 unproven citizen claims(of which only 5 are actuall town which makes for a 8/13 chance to hit a non-town). Even if they don't all claim citizen for some reason we can block/murder the CC's to death

this makes every single one of the town pr's an instant maf target

Surprisinly our doctor should live this night as long ass we dont elect our doctor into the council.

this is very much dependent on what the maf will prioritise and unless you're maf, there is no way you can guarantee it

not to mention that in order to avoid having their kill blocked by the doc, they probably won't go for the obvious targets


i think it's relatively likely that you're maf again and simply knew you couldn't suggest the same strat again as you did the last time

 

[Infected_alien8_]

Can't the mafias just use the bus driver ability on the toxicologist (making the role useless) and kill the assassin so that rev + mafias have 3 kills while town only 2 in the night + day circle after night 1?

The bus driver would affect anyone who visits the toxicologist in that case, not who the toxicologist would visit

I've written out like 10 posts argueing why Notty's idea wasn't a good way to go but each time I've found a flaw in my argument and tbh I think it's a good idea. I might change my mind if I think of something else but I mean essentially it narrows down our pool of suspects significantly in exchange for losing our PR's secrecy and risking the dictator dying and limiting our options (but neither us or Mafia want 3p to win so noones going to be happy to let it come to that)

I think it's probably worth it but my head is kind of dead since exams

Also this plan has loads of ways it could go wrong but so does every other option we have, the difference is that this one seems to give us the best chances, and it's not all gonna be based on chance anyway since I have faith in our reads!!