Trouble in the West: Pirates vs Cowboys [Finished]
- Thread starter Prizyms
- Start date
- Status
I assume at the end of the day the lynch will default to the player with the most votes?
And....the reasons for voting Duffie are just....ridiculous.
Now "This really is just starting to turn into a fos for me, a very weak one at that" I'd like to emphasize a few words here. "Just starting" "fos" "a very weak one".....now come on, that just makes it sound like it's not even vote worthy if you're going to put it like that....Now I'm going to deconstruct this just as I did JK's suspicion on myself, because I find that easiest for myself and everyone else to follow.
1) Multiple people have covered this already. Fiesta's lynch was inevitable at that point, Duffie was just speeding up the time left until the deadline.
2) I'm going to consider this along the lines of the "cutesy persona" reason....it's just...ugh...moving on....
3) You're using playstyle as a reason? And I honestly haven't noticed anything even close to that from him...
4) K...just...really?.....really?...........
I think Swate was just using that as an excuse to cast his vote without reason, and I'm not having it.
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K, so now that that's over with....I've said it once and I've said it again. I don't think Duffie is guilty. I will do whatever I can to defend him. If he does turn out to be something bad...Then....fuck me....I imagine it'll turn into D1 of bloody masquerade where I so vehemently defended std because he was lawyered. Well...not really turn into...just a parallel...
As for my own vote, I'm swayed by OMO's argument against GmK, though I'm not entirely sold. Honestly, my biggest FoS at this moment is Swate, though I probably won't be voting it until it gets closer to the deadline, for the potential case that my mind is changed.
And....the reasons for voting Duffie are just....ridiculous.
Starting with GmK because I thought he had the best argument, though still not very convincing to me personally.
Now "This really is just starting to turn into a fos for me, a very weak one at that" I'd like to emphasize a few words here. "Just starting" "fos" "a very weak one".....now come on, that just makes it sound like it's not even vote worthy if you're going to put it like that....Now I'm going to deconstruct this just as I did JK's suspicion on myself, because I find that easiest for myself and everyone else to follow.
1) Multiple people have covered this already. Fiesta's lynch was inevitable at that point, Duffie was just speeding up the time left until the deadline.
2) I'm going to consider this along the lines of the "cutesy persona" reason....it's just...ugh...moving on....
3) You're using playstyle as a reason? And I honestly haven't noticed anything even close to that from him...
4) K...just...really?.....really?...........
I've already pretty much broken down ansoro's, and it's getting late...so I'm not going to do it again.
So....Swate voted for Duffie....because Coolio voted for JK...After it had been said that voting for a FoS isn't exactly a good move...Now, he basically said he voted just to get things moving, but they already pretty much had.
I think Swate was just using that as an excuse to cast his vote without reason, and I'm not having it.
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K, so now that that's over with....I've said it once and I've said it again. I don't think Duffie is guilty. I will do whatever I can to defend him. If he does turn out to be something bad...Then....fuck me....I imagine it'll turn into D1 of bloody masquerade where I so vehemently defended std because he was lawyered. Well...not really turn into...just a parallel...
As for my own vote, I'm swayed by OMO's argument against GmK, though I'm not entirely sold. Honestly, my biggest FoS at this moment is Swate, though I probably won't be voting it until it gets closer to the deadline, for the potential case that my mind is changed.
Spontaneity is just something I do, my very nature is chaotic. While it may not be seen as wise, I jump from one person to another like hopscotch. I can't force you to believe I am innocent, but please realise you're simply trying to use my own character against me which is extremely unnoble.
Where in the world did you get the idea that I voted for Duffie because Coolio voted for Jk? How would that even work anyway? T_T I could probably understand your reasoning if I also voted for Jk, but wat.
I was already leaning towards voting for Duffie, and I explained exactly why in a slightly later post: that it was better than not having a vote. I also stated that the vote for Duffie still was not concrete and that it could be perceived as a placeholder vote of sort until I find someone else more appropriate to vote for. In the end, we have to vote for someone anyway so I decided it'd be much more logical to just constantly have my vote on whom I find most suspicious since that's who I end up voting for in the end anyway.
I just don't think Duffie is innocent, and I can't put the reasoning into words (which is something Coolio did mention earlier). And I'm not asking you to follow suit. But please respect that that is who my heart believes to be most suspicious instead of attacking me for contributing to the game :\
1) I don't know you very well, so how was I supposed to know that it's just how you are? . _.
2) Mostly because you had the same basic reasoning - to get the game going. It just looked to me like you were using the fact that coolio voted for a hunch to vote without reason.
3) While it does make sense to have your vote cast at all times and just change it as you see fit, it's sort of general practice to only cast your vote when you feel pretty strongly about lynching someone.
HypeBurst
Just Fabulous
@Timdood3 I just have to say when you address Duffie with either a question or a statement and all you get from him is a rating, it gets really irritating. And that's what happened in the fourth point of the argument against GmK. He's started replying more often now but not before. And replying to someones point with "K..really...really...." is actually kinda fucking rude tbh. Dont talk down to people thanks.
As much as I would love to have a proper reason for voting Duffie, I really haven't got one. I'm mainly basing my vote on a hunch.
I feel that it's his demeanour that comes off a bit unnerving for me. Like something similar to Norman Bates--
I feel that it's his demeanour that comes off a bit unnerving for me. Like something similar to Norman Bates--
It's midnight right now for me :D and happy full moon Friday the 13th to yous all! May I not wake up with a claw mark in my chest pls God, kthxbai
Actually, I've set my alarm for 6:00 so if that successfully wakes me up then I should have a chance to review what happened in my sleeping absence, so you *should* see me again. Night
Actually, I've set my alarm for 6:00 so if that successfully wakes me up then I should have a chance to review what happened in my sleeping absence, so you *should* see me again. Night
JKangaroo
Your Local, Neighborhood Marsupial
Been re-reading through the thread again, and though it hasn't really let me get any better hunches since the last few times, since its coming closer to the wire now, I guess I should vote the person I feel should be lynched over those votes that I feel aren't as viable.
I'm going to stick to my guns on what I said in my suspicions post, because at the moment, I feel like the Mafia are hiding in plain sight, and thus hiding behind things we are choosing to ignore or through actions some may not find suspicious over others.
From what I've seen over the past few days of playing, most votes have essentially devolved into a sort of "mob mentality," that I mean by certain groups will point out something "suspicious" and make a big deal out of it, while it in fact may not even be suspicious should it be anywhere else but Mafia, or we simply choose to think it is suspicious), and thus, go and jump on the bandwagon.
This was the case with Oak on Day 0 and early on in Day 1, and then everyone jumped on (in my opinion) Fiesta over poor reasons/just went with it, and now again in what I feel is a bandwagon on Duffie which yet again people are blindly following over nothing. (You might give X reasons, but so far they aren't really convincing / rehashes / hunches, which I don't necessarily acknowledge as reasonable reasons)
And it is these votes that I'm not entirely happy about, and I'm certain if we keep going at this rate, I'm certain we're just going to keep digging ourselves a hole of town lynch after town lynch over terrible reasoning.
I will be siding with Oak at the moment, for though I don't feel some of his reasons are exactly the greatest, I do agree with his sentiment in distrusting GmK, whom is a player I certainly do not trust at this stage in time.
GmK simply makes very little sense as far as I can see, and has been a leading person in, whom in my opinion, has been acting as a catalyst for confusing and silly votes / suspicion on players as well as acting apart of bandwagons which these votes somewhat play apart of.
I recall late into Day 0 the spin doctoring of Fiesta's words and random and short-lived 'witch trial' on Fiesta by both GmK and Notty over him simply pointing out in confusing over storm's comment, which stated:
Which, honestly, with such a random jump on him over a very reasonable confusion over storm's comment (and the idea that "anyone pointing out vig = mafia! comment which I already fought against strongly in like, Season 5/6(?) so I'm not even going to go on a rant about that again.), and then turning it into a vote honestly raises big alarms for me, though it may not for anyone else, and is certainly a behavior I cannot approve of, and a behavior I wouldn't expect of GmK.
And then dropping that vote to join the oak train.
I'm probably only suspicious of this because I already thought (and still do) the reasons for voting Oak were already silly in their own right, however, once again it raises the question at what GmK's ultimate goal(alignment) is this game.
Although continuing an already bad bandwagon from Day 0 with Sploorky wasn't already a strange move in my opinion,
And then we come to the horribly bad bandwagon that's sprung up around Duffie which I can't understand why people are voting on this, like I can see the reasons people are saying, I simply can't believe them.
Let's see the reasons... hmm... "hunch/gut" feelings basically out of nowhere... check!
"Overly cutesy personality / demeanour" is making him suspicious... what? how is that even a bloody reason?
Frankly, I'm 100% certain none of you would even be saying such things or even having such "gut feelings" (I've really started to hate that now) if it wasn't for GmK's random vote, which doesn't even make sense and frankly, started all this nonsense out of nothing:
Both weak, strange, and really just what are you even going on about? moments that simply do not make much sense for a vote at all, like your nitpicking unneeded, and frankly, a very normal statement, (obviously role-claiming is going to be iffy in closed set-up, especially with a "we don't know if its actually an arsonist or not" running about yada yada), and it just doesn't add up to me.
And then the "main" reason later on:
Let me step back for a moment and say that, there has been a trend of, at least, of what I view as, a lot of manipulation, twisting, and spin doctoring of many statements across this games span, a trend that has left a very bad taste in my mouth for awhile this game, and the fact that it's been seeping into other players reasons on certain votes has left be largely disheartened in the logic of many players stances.
This is one such case.
I'm not sure how the "personality is making me X emotion" reason started, and I don't want to know how or why.
The earliest point of this that I can find however just happens to be in the above quote of GmK, and though it isn't directly stated as it has been like in the quotation marks above, but the general premise is about the same.
"style of being emotionally unrelated/attached to the game..." first off, what does that even mean?, because it makes no real sense to me, or how it is related at all to the game.
And.. "emotionally unrelated = Duffie is hiding something more from last game???"
...those statements essentially laid the framework for saying "yeah, Duffie's personality is a bit strange to me" essentially derived from.(which I don't understand either) And I'm almost certain this wouldn't have become an issue without these comments. Although yes, bringing suspicion is a normal part of the game, but when the suspicions essentially derive from something as silly as this, I have to put my foot down.
I also have suspicions in the case of Jivvi.
The general consensus, though I may have disagreed with that opinion, did not follow neither mine, nor hypes, nor etc's reasons for voting Jivvi, and thus, general accepted his claim. Now, it might be a bit hypocritical for trusting digi and Hype over GmK, however, I do believe the reasons for voting Jivvi (which I've already said before, and I also said with exceptions in some regard to some of digi's arguments) were more reasonable and solid than those of the other lynches, which leaves me some room to trust those players.
However, the death of Jivvi had to have come from a source or player that either did not believe or felt something was fishy with Jivvi's "Mad Mike" claim like we three did, or they did believe it but felt lije suiciding their role (which is doubtful, and thus, I'm 100% certain it was the former).
One of these players who did not believe it or felt it was fishy had to have been the killer, or a leading cause of it.
One of these players who happened to, or at least strongly appears to be, GmK, which I am deriving from this quote:
, a post made after my vote on Jivvi that questioned his role as 'Mad Mike.'
This leads me to believe he must have doubted it to a degree, and with his knowledge of Mafia (hosting two very complex games + playing) also leaves me some room to believe a player may have already seen through that bomb ruse.
And despite numerous points of suspicion and general "uneasiness", he has gone under the radar pretty well, often giving vague statements, popping up randomly now and then past the first day, etc, etc.
I feel GmK's trying to twist the opinion of players in a bad way that is, in my opinion, hurting the town, and general behavior feels more scummy then I want to believe or trust, and feel its better than the current votes.
I also have other suspicions, like 77 who... if i'm not mistaken, hasn't said anything at all today. (except for that one right after day began about Blocktopia losing cops) and perhaps another player of possibly being that arsonist(?) role thing but those are all for another day.
As it stands, I feel like the votes for Duffie are silly and in bad taste, and though I am slowly growing to understand the suspicion on Swate, I don't think either better either.
I Vote GmK.
I'm going to stick to my guns on what I said in my suspicions post, because at the moment, I feel like the Mafia are hiding in plain sight, and thus hiding behind things we are choosing to ignore or through actions some may not find suspicious over others.
From what I've seen over the past few days of playing, most votes have essentially devolved into a sort of "mob mentality," that I mean by certain groups will point out something "suspicious" and make a big deal out of it, while it in fact may not even be suspicious should it be anywhere else but Mafia, or we simply choose to think it is suspicious), and thus, go and jump on the bandwagon.
This was the case with Oak on Day 0 and early on in Day 1, and then everyone jumped on (in my opinion) Fiesta over poor reasons/just went with it, and now again in what I feel is a bandwagon on Duffie which yet again people are blindly following over nothing. (You might give X reasons, but so far they aren't really convincing / rehashes / hunches, which I don't necessarily acknowledge as reasonable reasons)
And it is these votes that I'm not entirely happy about, and I'm certain if we keep going at this rate, I'm certain we're just going to keep digging ourselves a hole of town lynch after town lynch over terrible reasoning.
I will be siding with Oak at the moment, for though I don't feel some of his reasons are exactly the greatest, I do agree with his sentiment in distrusting GmK, whom is a player I certainly do not trust at this stage in time.
GmK simply makes very little sense as far as I can see, and has been a leading person in, whom in my opinion, has been acting as a catalyst for confusing and silly votes / suspicion on players as well as acting apart of bandwagons which these votes somewhat play apart of.
I recall late into Day 0 the spin doctoring of Fiesta's words and random and short-lived 'witch trial' on Fiesta by both GmK and Notty over him simply pointing out in confusing over storm's comment, which stated:
Which, honestly, with such a random jump on him over a very reasonable confusion over storm's comment (and the idea that "anyone pointing out vig = mafia! comment which I already fought against strongly in like, Season 5/6(?) so I'm not even going to go on a rant about that again.), and then turning it into a vote honestly raises big alarms for me, though it may not for anyone else, and is certainly a behavior I cannot approve of, and a behavior I wouldn't expect of GmK.
And then dropping that vote to join the oak train.
I'm probably only suspicious of this because I already thought (and still do) the reasons for voting Oak were already silly in their own right, however, once again it raises the question at what GmK's ultimate goal(alignment) is this game.
Although continuing an already bad bandwagon from Day 0 with Sploorky wasn't already a strange move in my opinion,
And then we come to the horribly bad bandwagon that's sprung up around Duffie which I can't understand why people are voting on this, like I can see the reasons people are saying, I simply can't believe them.
Let's see the reasons... hmm... "hunch/gut" feelings basically out of nowhere... check!
"Overly cutesy personality / demeanour" is making him suspicious... what? how is that even a bloody reason?
Frankly, I'm 100% certain none of you would even be saying such things or even having such "gut feelings" (I've really started to hate that now) if it wasn't for GmK's random vote, which doesn't even make sense and frankly, started all this nonsense out of nothing:
Both weak, strange, and really just what are you even going on about? moments that simply do not make much sense for a vote at all, like your nitpicking unneeded, and frankly, a very normal statement, (obviously role-claiming is going to be iffy in closed set-up, especially with a "we don't know if its actually an arsonist or not" running about yada yada), and it just doesn't add up to me.
And then the "main" reason later on:
Now I'm not going to address the hammering reason again, because that's already been said by multiple people, and honestly, makes the most logical sense in my opinion, and already proves, in my mind, that the votes on Duffie are in silly and bad taste (here is some of it again in quote form if you need it:)
The hammer: No, that's not vote-worthy. The day was going to end in this way anyway and I'm pretty sure almost all of us realized that. The thing that was uncertain was when it was going to end. To me it just looks like Duffie wasn't sure and went along with the rest because of it, because he was pressured in to voting Fiesta (yes, I know that nobody actually said he should vote Fiesta, but never underestimate the example the other voters are setting, especially with as many of them as there were) and because he probably wanted to give our power roles something to do instead of waiting for the day to end. I actually think that he made the right decision, not a mistake or anything, hell, if he hadn't hammered, I would have.
So like, I can say I disagree with Swate's "hunch" vote for a variety of different reasons. I can say I'm not a big fan of "hunch lynches" in this regard mainly because its out of nowhere (at least as far as I can see), and if the hunches are basically based off of the arguments being proposed by GmK, ansoro, etc (which seems like the most reasonable assumption, since it is basically the only source for any "suspicion); arguments I don't really see as vote-worthy or seem to be playing to much into aspects I disagree with, like I don't believe lynching off of the reason that "hammering" Fiesta even though he didn't think Fiesta was guilty is reasonable (again, in my opinion). Let's be honest here, Fiesta was probably going to be lynched either way since it seemed like no one was basically going to change their stance on their votes at that point without game changing evidence, and the vast majority had already bandwagon'd onto Fiesta by that point anyways.
The deadline was close anyways. Even though I disagree with lynching Fiesta, it doesn't mean I don't think it wasn't reasonable not to just get that... basically a stalemate of opinions, from ending a day that was essentially already over.
So like, I can say I disagree with Swate's "hunch" vote for a variety of different reasons. I can say I'm not a big fan of "hunch lynches" in this regard mainly because its out of nowhere (at least as far as I can see), and if the hunches are basically based off of the arguments being proposed by GmK, ansoro, etc (which seems like the most reasonable assumption, since it is basically the only source for any "suspicion); arguments I don't really see as vote-worthy or seem to be playing to much into aspects I disagree with, like I don't believe lynching off of the reason that "hammering" Fiesta even though he didn't think Fiesta was guilty is reasonable (again, in my opinion). Let's be honest here, Fiesta was probably going to be lynched either way since it seemed like no one was basically going to change their stance on their votes at that point without game changing evidence, and the vast majority had already bandwagon'd onto Fiesta by that point anyways.
The deadline was close anyways. Even though I disagree with lynching Fiesta, it doesn't mean I don't think it wasn't reasonable not to just get that... basically a stalemate of opinions, from ending a day that was essentially already over.
This is one such case.
I'm not sure how the "personality is making me X emotion" reason started, and I don't want to know how or why.
The earliest point of this that I can find however just happens to be in the above quote of GmK, and though it isn't directly stated as it has been like in the quotation marks above, but the general premise is about the same.
"style of being emotionally unrelated/attached to the game..." first off, what does that even mean?, because it makes no real sense to me, or how it is related at all to the game.
And.. "emotionally unrelated = Duffie is hiding something more from last game???"
...those statements essentially laid the framework for saying "yeah, Duffie's personality is a bit strange to me" essentially derived from.(which I don't understand either) And I'm almost certain this wouldn't have become an issue without these comments. Although yes, bringing suspicion is a normal part of the game, but when the suspicions essentially derive from something as silly as this, I have to put my foot down.
I also have suspicions in the case of Jivvi.
The general consensus, though I may have disagreed with that opinion, did not follow neither mine, nor hypes, nor etc's reasons for voting Jivvi, and thus, general accepted his claim. Now, it might be a bit hypocritical for trusting digi and Hype over GmK, however, I do believe the reasons for voting Jivvi (which I've already said before, and I also said with exceptions in some regard to some of digi's arguments) were more reasonable and solid than those of the other lynches, which leaves me some room to trust those players.
However, the death of Jivvi had to have come from a source or player that either did not believe or felt something was fishy with Jivvi's "Mad Mike" claim like we three did, or they did believe it but felt lije suiciding their role (which is doubtful, and thus, I'm 100% certain it was the former).
One of these players who did not believe it or felt it was fishy had to have been the killer, or a leading cause of it.
One of these players who happened to, or at least strongly appears to be, GmK, which I am deriving from this quote:
, a post made after my vote on Jivvi that questioned his role as 'Mad Mike.'
This leads me to believe he must have doubted it to a degree, and with his knowledge of Mafia (hosting two very complex games + playing) also leaves me some room to believe a player may have already seen through that bomb ruse.
And despite numerous points of suspicion and general "uneasiness", he has gone under the radar pretty well, often giving vague statements, popping up randomly now and then past the first day, etc, etc.
I feel GmK's trying to twist the opinion of players in a bad way that is, in my opinion, hurting the town, and general behavior feels more scummy then I want to believe or trust, and feel its better than the current votes.
I also have other suspicions, like 77 who... if i'm not mistaken, hasn't said anything at all today. (except for that one right after day began about Blocktopia losing cops) and perhaps another player of possibly being that arsonist(?) role thing but those are all for another day.
As it stands, I feel like the votes for Duffie are silly and in bad taste, and though I am slowly growing to understand the suspicion on Swate, I don't think either better either.
I Vote GmK.
Enderfive
sarcasm incarnate
This right here. I believe I already gave my stance on it, but I cannot stress how strongly I feel about it, so I want to point this out for everyone, again.And then we come to the horribly bad bandwagon that's sprung up around Duffie which I can't understand why people are voting on this, like I can see the reasons people are saying, I simply can't believe them.
Let's see the reasons... hmm... "hunch/gut" feelings basically out of nowhere... check!
"Overly cutesy personality / demeanour" is making him suspicious... what? how is that even a bloody reason?
Frankly, I'm 100% certain none of you would even be saying such things or even having such "gut feelings" (I've really started to hate that now) if it wasn't for GmK's random vote, which doesn't even make sense and frankly, started all this nonsense out of nothing:
Both weak, strange, and really just what are you even going on about? moments that simply do not make much sense for a vote at all, like your nitpicking unneeded, and frankly, a very normal statement, (obviously role-claiming is going to be iffy in closed set-up, especially with a "we don't know if its actually an arsonist or not" running about yada yada), and it just doesn't add up to me.
Vote Count 5 - Almost there! Deadline very soon.
Duffie (4) - GmK, ansoro2112, Swate, digitalmez [5 to lynch]
Swate (2) - Samlen, endersteve5 [7 to lynch]
Storm886 (1) - Jeercrul [8 to lynch]
GmK (2) - OMO63, JKangaroo [7 to lynch]
No vote (9) - Everyone else
Duffie (4) - GmK, ansoro2112, Swate, digitalmez [5 to lynch]
Swate (2) - Samlen, endersteve5 [7 to lynch]
Storm886 (1) - Jeercrul [8 to lynch]
GmK (2) - OMO63, JKangaroo [7 to lynch]
No vote (9) - Everyone else
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I'd say that's pretty reasonable....It doesn't look like anyone else will be voting for Swate....I was going to, but after JK's post? There are bigger things to worry about.
OMO already had me keeping an eye on him, but JK's turned a FoS into a vote.
Vote GmK
GmK
International Man Of Cake
I would have expected especially the experienced players with mafia experience to look at what I said there and use your mafia trained brains to understand what I am very explicitly hinting at here. And no, I don't want you to discuss it openly, but I must say I am slightly taken back by some of the reactions by those that usually play very logical. So come on, I can't spell it out even more.
Enderfive
sarcasm incarnate
I noticed it and brushed it off, since that kind of very explicit and obvious hinting can just as well be planted there to lead us off-track, in fact, if I was a town PR with some sort of knowledge as to who is anti-town, I wouldn't make it that bloody clear for everyone to see, I'd leave some hints here and there, yes, but I wouldn't make it so obvious, since with the way you said it, you're just as big a target to the mafia as you were with a hard claim. At least would be, if I was mafia.
GmK
International Man Of Cake
Eh, if tides swing against you, especially when lead by people that are influential, and people never listen (or rather: react) to any of the hints dropped, there is usually not much left to do then get explicit, taking in the full risk that means.
Vote Count 6 - Deadline 2 hours 20 minutes from now!
Duffie (4) - GmK, ansoro2112, Swate, digitalmez [5 to lynch]
Swate (2) - Samlen, endersteve5 [7 to lynch]
Storm886 (1) - Jeercrul [8 to lynch]
GmK (3) - OMO63, JKangaroo, Timdood3 [6 to lynch]
No vote - Everyone else
Defaulting to most voted in 2 hours 20 minutes!
Duffie (4) - GmK, ansoro2112, Swate, digitalmez [5 to lynch]
Swate (2) - Samlen, endersteve5 [7 to lynch]
Storm886 (1) - Jeercrul [8 to lynch]
GmK (3) - OMO63, JKangaroo, Timdood3 [6 to lynch]
No vote - Everyone else
Defaulting to most voted in 2 hours 20 minutes!
- Status