Trouble in the West: Pirates vs Cowboys [Finished]

[Samlen]

He asks Coolio about her role name, I'm gonna assume it's to make sure he doesn't mess up the name. If he actually was who he says he was, there'd be no reason to do that, so he's probably lying.

There actually was logical reasoning behind this, or something that seemed logical to me =S The only confirmed vanilla town we have is Fiesta, whom died, and when I saw the Tumbleweed prefix, I figured that probably all vanilla townies had the same prefix, since I did too. Since there was only one public confirmation/claim of a vanilla townie at the time, I figured that most people wouldn't assume immediately that all vanilla townies must start with Tumbleweed just because one did, but it looks like a lot of people did (from what I've seen at least). Since I thought that people wouldn't assume Tumbleweed for every vanilla town, I figured I would try seeing if Coolio would try claiming vanilla townie without said prefix, to see if she was trying to fake her claim. Apparently I was wrong in thinking that people wouldn't assume that all vanilla townies were Tumbleweed, so it really amounted to nothing in the end.

"Ok, Ender is town, GmK is mafia, we're all town in my inn, won't make a lynch yet but I think I might vote Kake today, and I'll think about who the other mafia might be". He did nothing but second all the popular opinion from this day and the previous and say that they're all inno in his inn. He stated that he's practically convinced by my post that GmK is guilty and should hang, yet didn't vote. Even after his other post today, which (apparently) expressed his even further strenghtened belief that GmK is guilty, he didn't vote. Why?

I stated that I mostly believed that my inn was all town-sided and used that belief to formulate my own theories while I was indeed trying to think of whom other Pirates could be, which has been changing around quite a bit with each bit of evidence people post. I didn't vote for GmK immediately because I believe in letting the accused actually speak before jumping ontop of them and potentially start/continue a bandwagon.

Now what I think of GmK after he has made his post:
1. We really managed to have three town-sided cops, but each/some of them of serious negative modifiers. We can see that Ooglie was probably Lazy (highly unlikely to be insane in this case, but maybe random too? not extremely likely either way), roles could easily not be the same alignment as normal (confusing our rolecop) and Jivvi could have had any sort of modifier.
2. Or GmK is simply a Pirate rolecop trying to claim town-sided.

Either situation is quite possible, but to try and determine which one is true is mostly a judgement call, though it might be determinable by looking through other people.

GmK: Town Rolecop
Ender: Town Journalist
Storm: 3rd Party Alien
Ansoro: Town Commuter
Timdood: 3rd Party Survivor
Jkang: Town Innkeeper
Samlen: Town Vanilla
Hype: Town Firefighter
Coolio: Town Vanilla
Digi: Town Ghoul
77: Town Party Host

(And for clarity, the deceased and their roles as well)

Notty: Town Roleblocker
Fiesta: Town Vanilla
Jivvi: Town Cop
Duffie: 3rd Party Arsonist
OMO: Town Mortician
Swate: ???
Ooglie: Town Cop (Lazy)
Std: Town Mistletoe Doctor
Jeercrul: 3rd Party Amnesiac

Looking at this, I notice that the only person whom actually claimed any sort of vigilante-like role was Swate (unless the vigilante is trying to hide, which might be possible, but highly unlikely by this point in the game) and I do believe we would have (or had) a vigilante in this game, so I'm going to assume that Swate really was telling the truth. After seeing everyone role-claim, this leads me to believe that Ooglie probably was actually sane (maybe random, but that'd be pretty extreme), which leads me to believe that GmK is more likely to be innocent, and for me to question Digi's claim of being town-sided.
I do have my doubts about other people's claims, and here are my general thoughts on people right now.
Name: Claim (thoughts)
Most likely Town-sided
Samlen: Town Vanilla (Just trying to use my logic for the town since I can't do anything else)
Jkang: Town Innkeeper (Most solid evidence for town-sided)
GmK: Town Rolecop (current evidence suggests town (from my view))

Leaing towards Town-sided
Hype: Town Firefighter (Claims/actions seem to click with town-sided, possible faking but unlikely)
77: Town Party Host (Want to think town, but feel a bit uncertain overall)

Not sure
Coolio: Town Vanilla (just not sure in general...)
Timdood: 3rd Party Survivor (Claim makes sense, but could also be faking.)
Ender: Town Journalist (Could be Pirate-sided Informat, but not completely sure either way).
Ansoro: Town Commuter (Feels bit much of an iffy claim in general)

Leaning towards Anti-Town
Storm: 3rd Party Alien (Seems to act scum-like the few times he was active, and even if telling truth he still bussed his only potential partner)
Digi: Town Ghoul (Following my earlier logic, would assume guilty due to Ooglie's investigations, but other possible scenarios could have happened)

Yes, now I am going to wait and see what happens before I make any sort of vote, since I like to play cautiously. These are just my views as of now and are not definitive, though if they don't change much within the next few days, I will go along with them and make a vote.

 

[Enderfive]

Endersteve, just to be clear, it's NOT my decision whether to use my ability or not. It happens automatically every night. That's why I have NO night actions.

Completely irrelevant to my point.

And the only "flaw" my role has is that there are nights where my ability might not work and I might get killed. So no, my role is not overpowered. If you think about it I do practically nothing. Except going away.

Yes, I understand. You just "go away", which means you're immune to any and all night actions. I'd certainly like to know more about when you fail to leave the town at night or why, etc. but I guess you don't know that, do you?
Still, a Commuter that hasn't had it's ability significantly limited is quite overpowered. At least the Arsonist has the Firefighter to counter it, there is no counter for you.

And gosh, just keep in mind I work every day till very LATE at night. That's why I can't be as active as I was in other seasons so please have that in mind. I reply when I have the time. Sorry if it's not enough.

Keep in mind that we don't know the details of your private life unless you tell them to us.

There actually was logical reasoning behind this, or something that seemed logical to me =S The only confirmed vanilla town we have is Fiesta, whom died, and when I saw the Tumbleweed prefix, I figured that probably all vanilla townies had the same prefix, since I did too. Since there was only one public confirmation/claim of a vanilla townie at the time, I figured that most people wouldn't assume immediately that all vanilla townies must start with Tumbleweed just because one did, but it looks like a lot of people did (from what I've seen at least). Since I thought that people wouldn't assume Tumbleweed for every vanilla town, I figured I would try seeing if Coolio would try claiming vanilla townie without said prefix, to see if she was trying to fake her claim. Apparently I was wrong in thinking that people wouldn't assume that all vanilla townies were Tumbleweed, so it really amounted to nothing in the end.

I thought that Coolio already claimed early on in the game in the inn...? Besides, if 77 had viewed her claimed as "highly believable", why hadn't you? :S

Claiming "blue" inside inns near the start of the game

I do believe we would have (or had) a vigilante in this game

Why? You've been going on about a Vig for quite a bit now, but there is absolutely no evidence to suggest there ever was one, and with the roles that have been claimed so far or confirmed by kills (Arsonist, Ghoul), I don't even regard it as logical.


Also, this:

Endersteve5 (Living Town (large evidence for claim of being town))

And then in the next post:

Ender: Town Journalist (Could be Pirate-sided Informat, but not completely sure either way).

What changed your mind?

 

[Samlen]

I thought that Coolio already claimed early on in the game in the inn...? Besides, if 77 had viewed her claimed as "highly believable", why hadn't you? :S

Because there's not a lot of evidence to suggest that she was telling the truth or lying, the only way to decide if she's telling the truth is to see what she's written and go with a gut instinct, and I haven't seen enough to make me certain that she's town or not.

Why? You've been going on about a Vig for quite a bit now, but there is absolutely no evidence to suggest there ever was one, and with the roles that have been claimed so far or confirmed by kills (Arsonist, Ghoul), I don't even regard it as logical.

Because I do believe it highly unlikely that we wouldn't have a vigalante in a large like this (could be wrong, I admit) but with what I've seen, it finally makes more sense to me that Ooglie might not have been insane, which leads me to believe that Swate was innocent and was what he said he was, our vigilante.

What changed your mind?

I took a minute to think, and the more I think now, the more suspicious I become of other people's claims as well. Maybe it's me being paranoid or maybe I'm just looking back and seeing I didn't think enough, but I don't feel like I can trust much of anything or anyone really.

 

[Enderfive]

I don't feel like I can trust much of anything or anyone really.

But you can feel like you can trust GmK, where the only reason you have to trust him is the assumption that Ooglie was sane, which in turn is based on the unreasonable belief that Swate was a town vigilante, even though his behaviour suggested otherwise, you yourself voted for him and pushed to lynch him when he was still alive while Ooglie had already come forward with his investigations, while digitalmez, who is of a different alignment than GmK or Swate has been confirmed to at least tell the truth about her role which is usually town-sided, and GmK's role is usually mafia-sided...?

You're saying you can't trust much of anyone or anything any more, yet one of the two people you state to trust a lot has a 50% chance to be mafia.

 

[Samlen]

But you can feel like you can trust GmK, where the only reason you have to trust him is the assumption that Ooglie was sane, which in turn is based on the unreasonable belief that Swate was a town vigilante, even though his behaviour suggested otherwise, you yourself voted for him and pushed to lynch him when he was still alive while Ooglie had already come forward with his investigations, while digitalmez, who is of a different alignment than GmK or Swate has been confirmed to at least tell the truth about her role which is usually town-sided, and GmK's role is usually mafia-sided...?

You're saying you can't trust much of anyone or anything any more, yet one of the two people you state to trust a lot has a 50% chance to be mafia.

and the more I think now, the more suspicious I become of other people's claims as well

Like I said, when I looked back and thought more, I'm still suspicious of other people's claim, even GmK's. And yes, I've been second guessing myself about Swate ever since I voted for him, because we don't know what he was and he could have been telling the truth. And that 50% chance of being Pirate is the same for town sided as well and may not even be 50% because who knows what other modifiers may have happened (though it is likely likely 50%, there's that off-chance that it isn't), I just don't know for certain and I'm just making my best guesses using the logic I can.

 

[Enderfive]

Yeah uhm you're not making any sense to me any more. One minute you say GmK is top suspect, the one after it he's at the top of your trust list, then it's that the 50% chance is likely. And every time you seem to say that you've always, or at least for a considerable amount of time felt that way. Make up your mind already, and not just because I point it out to you :S

 

[GmK]

Yeah uhm you're not making any sense to me any more.

I was about to say that as well. Because no matter what people might think of the whole 50/50 chance of Digi and me, one being scum (I can perfectly see both sides), the things you write yourself, samlen, have a complete sense of "saving your ass for things that haven't yet happened". On a very basic level something is really off, and it's either you overthinking everything or what ender analysed: You are a piratescummafia member.

 

[Samlen]

One minute you say GmK is top suspect, the one after it he's at the top of your trust list, then it's that the 50% chance is likely.

The only time he was top of my suspect list was before he made his post, which, of course, made my opinion of him change at least a little bit. The top of the trust list was when I responded after just reading his post and not thinking much about it and the 50% bit is after thinking about it a bit more, and yes, reading what you had to say on the matter. I usually try and think things through completely before posting, but I don't completely know what I've been doing the past hour other than not thinking very logically... I've tried clarifying what I think I've been trying to say and I can keep trying if it still doesn't make enough sense to you.

 

[Timdood3]

So, I've been thinking about this, and it just...doesn't really add up in my opinion. Samlen, you said that you asked Coolio for her role name, Tumbleweed, in order to see if she was fake claiming...However, you also said the following.

Apparently I was wrong in thinking that people wouldn't assume that all vanilla townies were Tumbleweed

I figured that most people wouldn't assume immediately that all vanilla townies must start with Tumbleweed just because one did, but it looks like a lot of people did (from what I've seen at least)

I've seen no evidence that "a lot of people" assumed that all vanilla townies were "Tumbleweed X,"
but that's somewhat unimportant.

What is important is that I get from this is that you don't believe Coolio's claim, even after she passed the "Tumbleweed Test."
Why give her the test, if you were only going to not believe her anyway?

I know I didn't explain that very well, but I did my best ;-;

 

[Samlen]

What is important is that I get from this is that you don't believe Coolio's claim, even after she passed the "Tumbleweed Test."
Why give her the test, if you were only going to not believe her anyway?

It wasn't much of a test to completely prove innocence, but more of one to at least help in that general direction. I still find it hard to trust much of anything or anyone, so maybe I'm just over-paranoid in that sense, but I don't know how much I should believe or not.

 

[digi]

Ok guess this is mass claim day, since my role is useless now I may as well.

My name is Courageous Caleb the Fire fighter

I protect TWO people at night from being doused by the arsonist - I can't protect against anything else unfortunately. If I successfully protected someone from being doused then I would receive the message that I dun good. So with Pyro Pete killed, I had no ability and thus don't receive any status messages after night 2. I think Priz expected the arsonist to make it a little bit longer in this game but luckily he didnt last long.

The downside to my role is that if the arsonist was to set off his fire, whether I was doused or not, I would commit suicide that night because I failed at my job to protect the town.

Now remember that last piece of information when I make this confession, I was not doused on night 1. Yep, anyone sceptical of me being doused was actually right to suspect me. However this wasn't malicious at all. On the first night, I decided to protect Ansoro and Notty because Andres is my friend outside this game and after last game I knew Notty was going to be a target. Duffie actually targeted Ansoro for the first dousing but since I protected him, he didnt get gasolined. When I received that piece of information, I was happy that I did my job but I was also frightened because there wouldn't be anyone to say they were doused on night one and thus the town wouldn't know of the arsonist. So I decided to alert everyone to it by saying that I was actually doused by him.

Along with alerting everyone to the existence of the arsonist, I was also hoping to see who would act surprised to simply "different" to the fact I was stating that I was doused. I watched coolio because she seemed to certain I wasn't doused so it made me wonder if she was the arsonist. But when Jivvi came out with his really unlikely claim, I was basically certain that he was lying. Then after I made my vote for him, he came after me in a really passive aggressive way, saying that essentially, my dousing claim was bullshit. This put up big red flags for me and he was saying these theories that seemed like he knew more about the arsonist role than he let on, so I went after him at that point which created probably one of the most heated arguments in blocktopia mafia history. After he got killed at night, it turned out I was wrong on my suspicion that he was the arsonist, so I decided to take a step back and watch the game from a more calculated perspective.

2nd night I protected Ender, and Ansoro again incase the arsonist came back to finish the job, but I guess he went after Storm instead.

After that night, Duffie was lynched and I honestly was surprised he was the arsonist, I expected mafia but I'll take what I can get. And after that I had no more abilities and became just like another tumble weed (ender why didnt you investigate me the first night so you could see my heroism :c )

Now I know I put a lot in this post and it may seem confusing so if anyone has questions, Ill reply tomorrow morning because I'm tired as all fuck.

This makes no sense at all. If you knew beforehand that there'd be an Arsonist, why not warn people on Day0? You were given a hint to a real threat to town and you decided to tell people on Day1. I honestly don't believe your claim and am more inclined to believe that you were doused during the night.

I just wanted to state this now, since I'm catching up and trying my darnedest to explain some theories.

 

[digi]

Also--
GmK is right, I am the Ghoul. I just didn't know that that was the official title of my role.

I think his role claim on OMO is a bit far fetched. To me I feel that Oak was more of a Mortician rather than a Janitor.
- His push to have me lynched because I can't be killed during the night has him grasping for straws. So he's concocted a theory, a theory in which he could have mustered up the day before that involves an out-of-the-blue possible Vigilante role that was Swate. I'll come back to this...

 

[digi]

I believe Samlen's theory on GmK being a Mafia sided Cop.

 

[HypeBurst]

This makes no sense at all. If you knew beforehand that there'd be an Arsonist, why not warn people on Day0? You were given a hint to a real threat to town and you decided to tell people on Day1. I honestly don't believe your claim and am more inclined to believe that you were doused during the night.

I just wanted to state this now, since I'm catching up and trying my darnedest to explain some theories.

The only way I would have been able to tell everyone that the arsonist existed on Day 0 would have been to post that I was the Fire Fighter, basically surrendering myself to the arsonist for the first night which would have been completely stupid. I was unsure if the arsonist even knew my existence, so I needed a better way to tell everyone. I was banking on the first doused to come forward on day 1, but since I protected them, I had to step up to the plate.

That logic isn't that hard to understand and I didn't think I'd need to clarify something as simple as that. The way you came at me was extremely offensive and attackive. Maybe you need to think a little harder before you try to whole heartedly attack someone like that. It reminds me of Ender in the Bloody Masquerade on the first day when he tried to lay suspicion on me and quite carelessly mixed both of us up, just trying to find some reason to lay suspicion on me.

 

[Enderfive]

His push to have me lynched because I can't be killed during the night has him grasping for straws. So he's concocted a theory, a theory in which he could have mustered up the day before that involves an out-of-the-blue possible Vigilante role that was Swate. I'll come back to this...

um
His vote on you is based on the fact that you two are of different alignments. The one that's been going on about Swate being the Vig is Samlen, not GmK.

I believe Samlen's theory on GmK being a Mafia sided Cop.

And that was my theory, Samlen says that he feels like he can trust GmK, because he believes Samlen was a Vig and therefore, according to Ooglie's investigations, GmK would be Town as well.

As soon as I presented my investigations which clearly show that you and GmK are of different alignments, I suddenly saw a very drastic change in your playstyle, and honestly, I don't like what I'm seeing. You seem to be panicking, grasping at straws, not paying any attention to who's saying what and attributing the illogical parts to people that are clearly against you, like GmK. I'm beginning to think that I can trust GmK to be town more than I can trust you.

 

[Timdood3]

The only way I would have been able to tell everyone that the arsonist existed on Day 0 would have been to post that I was the Fire Fighter, basically surrendering myself to the arsonist for the first night which would have been completely stupid. I was unsure if the arsonist even knew my existence, so I needed a better way to tell everyone. I was banking on the first doused to come forward on day 1, but since I protected them, I had to step up to the plate.

I'm sorry, but wouldn't you getting doused be a good thing?
You said you'd be forced to suicide if the arsonist dropped the match anyway, so either way you'd be dead.
But the arsonist wouldn't know that, and so they would douse you, meaning that you're doused and not someone else.

However, warning people about the arsonist is all good in theory, but what could we have really done about it? Nothing. You made the right call, in my opinion.

 

[digi]

um
His vote on you is based on the fact that you two are of different alignments. The one that's been going on about Swate being the Vig is Samlen, not GmK.


And that was my theory, Samlen says that he feels like he can trust GmK, because he believes Samlen was a Vig and therefore, according to Ooglie's investigations, GmK would be Town as well.

As soon as I presented my investigations which clearly show that you and GmK are of different alignments, I suddenly saw a very drastic change in your playstyle, and honestly, I don't like what I'm seeing. You seem to be panicking, grasping at straws, not paying any attention to who's saying what and attributing the illogical parts to people that are clearly against you, like GmK. I'm beginning to think that I can trust GmK to be town more than I can trust you.

I'm on my phone so I can't really save quotes at the moment. Plus I'm kind of driving and texting -- I parked the car every time I texted though... excused the the rushed messages.

 

[HypeBurst]

[BCOLOR=#fff4e5]I'm sorry, but wouldn't you getting doused be a good thing?[/BCOLOR]

You said you'd be forced to suicide if the arsonist dropped the match anyway, so either way you'd be dead.
But the arsonist wouldn't know that, and so they would douse you, meaning that you're doused and not someone else.

However, warning people about the arsonist is all good in theory, but what could we have really done about it? Nothing. You made the right call, in my opinion.

I feel like if the arsonist knew he had the firefighter doused, he would set off his fire immediately and then start his chain again the next night. The fact that no one would be protecting the town would be a worthy trade for one night that he could be dousing.

 

[Enderfive]

I'm on my phone so I can't really save quotes at the moment. Plus I'm kind of driving and texting -- I parked the car every time I texted though... excused the the rushed messages.

Jesus, take your time. We're not going to lynch you if you don't get a reply up every twenty minutes, real life always comes first :L

 

[digi]

Like I can't quote multiple things on my phone or else it just crashes.

 

[Timdood3]

Also, I'd like to point something peculiar I noticed. Similar to my last post with the whole "Janitor vs Undertaker" thing, and will probably end up the same way, but it's just nagging at me, so I feel like I have to point it out.

A Ghoul redirects only kills. Digi says she chooses a player at night to redirect all actions to, right? There is a role on mafiascum called the Deflector, which is, well, exactly what Digi can do.

Again, probably nothing, less than before, in fact, but it just...bothers me.

 

[digi]

Jesus, take your time. We're not going to lynch you if you don't get a reply up every twenty minutes, real life always comes first :L

Yeah right! The moment I sleep, I'm dead-- I know you guys!

 

[cooliorules]

either Anso or 77 would be my choice

77 is virtually a cleared townie. He knew about the party before anyone else did. That basically confirms him.

And Samlen asking for Coolio's role name before claiming struck me as incredibly wrong

Heh, I know right.

Coolio: Town Vanilla (just not sure in general...)

You said you trusted me as town. What the hell is going on. First you contradict me, and then you're also contradicted Ender.
I mean like you contradicted yourself on those people.

I thought that Coolio already claimed early on in the game in the inn...?

I did, I claimed blue first night I believe it was. I didn't say my name, however. I just stated the fact that I am blue.

yet one of the two people you state to trust a lot has a 50% chance to be mafia.

Let's just be realistic, we all do at the moment. No one is confirmed as town (or even mafia) unless confirmed cop (through death with the modifiers, etc. confirmed) or through death.

piratescummafia

I like this. Made me laugh.

If you knew beforehand that there'd be an Arsonist, why not warn people on Day0? You were given a hint to a real threat to town and you decided to tell people on Day1.

If Hype just came out, then it would have put a massive target onto his back, imho.

 

[cooliorules]

Also, my biggest foses are samlen and GmK.

vote samlen

 

[Enderfive]

77 is virtually a cleared townie. He knew about the party before anyone else did. That basically confirms him.

It confirms him as party host, not town.

Let's just be realistic, we all do at the moment. No one is confirmed as town (or even mafia) unless confirmed cop (through death with the modifiers, etc. confirmed) or through death.

Yes, but nobody besides Digi and GmK have a confirmed 50% chance of being non-town either.