- Status
Votecount - The first one of the day!
Marskid - Enderfive Timdood3 Vatumok (3/8)
Ltin - Nottykitten (1/8)
Vatumok - Ltin (1/8)
Timdood3 - Marskid (1/8)
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch and 7 to no-lynch.
A reminder that once deadline hits, the person with most votes WILL be lynched, with ties being randomly decided between the tied people.
Deadline at 11pm GMT, December 7
Marskid - Enderfive Timdood3 Vatumok (3/8)
Ltin - Nottykitten (1/8)
Vatumok - Ltin (1/8)
Timdood3 - Marskid (1/8)
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch and 7 to no-lynch.
A reminder that once deadline hits, the person with most votes WILL be lynched, with ties being randomly decided between the tied people.
Deadline at 11pm GMT, December 7
I didn't write a seperate text for every person but in general Notty seems good to me. I think you are suspicious because you were talking too much in my opinion, however, that suspicion has become less but still noteworthy. That doesn't mean that I'll suddenly vote to lynch you but it's important that people let their thoughts known so that we can deduce the mafia and 3rd parties.
Enderfive
sarcasm incarnate
Woah. I was hoping for activity when I voted, but I never expected it quite like this.
I think Tim did an okay job replying to Mars' initial response to me, but I'll go over it anyway and perhaps address some of the other clashpoints going around right now. Fair warning though, it's getting close to 3 am here so I can't guarantee that everything will make sense (but I hope it will).
First of all, if you call me out on saying something that's "not true at all", see that the explanation actually provides insight into why you think so. Here you say that you haven't just made safe statements outside the Tim suspicion and you go on to explain how you could've just lurked. Well, sure, you could lurk, but that's not relevant to the point you're addressing. Your choice of "not lurking" does not make your statements any less safe. And even if you did lurk, you'd just be pulled right back in the spotlight when someone decides that inactives are suspicious, as it usually happens. I'd think you're experienced enough to want to avoid this, so you went for what I call "active lurking" instead. You said enough to not be considered inactive, yet offered no real opinions of your own until you voiced your suspicion on Tim, which you really only did once people had begun to say they were suspicious of you.
Sure, and as I said, not having a lot to go on is fine at this stage of the game, but the difference lies in how the others at least had opinions or, in case they didn't, they weren't posting the Mafia equivalent of remarking on the weather every now and then. It's nice of you to draw attention back to other people, though.
It literally isn't important, as Tim said. Fali's roleplaying is just about the farthest thing in this whole game from being a divisive tactic, or at least would be if you wouldn't insist on roleplaying being important to note. If you're going to look to past games for clues, look to the Bloody Masquerade and the fiasco surrounding Nitasu's roleplaying. Unless we have a definitive reason to suspect roleplaying as an important part of someone's role, we shouldnt treat it as an important part of anyone's game.
No, you haven't. You only came under proper scrutiny when I placed my vote on you, prior to that it was just Inffy with his gut feeling and Jk with "dumb reasoning". And you didn't really address either, because, let's face it, there wasn't much to address.
I think you're confusing sparking discussion with actively contributing to it. A discussion can be sparked with minimal effort, no effort, or even accidentally and unwittingly. Contributing to a discussion, however, requires effort and intent, as you're getting your opinions out and giving the discussion a chance to evolve based on that. It was your opinions that were missing in most of your posts before FoSing Tim, and it's that lack of contribution that caused the gut feeling Inffy had on you, and is what I was talking about in my previous post. Since you're going around my arguments by misrepresenting your own actions instead of refuting the points I made, I still don't see what I'm supposed to say, because my point still stands.
I personally think the way you changed your opinion and directed suspicion on Tim right as you were starting to get more suspicion on yourself is definitely more "convenient", but then again, I suppose it's just convenient for us that you come up with all this awesome behaviour to justify voting you. Must be us, right?
To finish this off,
does kinda sound like a slip. The way you say "other mafia members" kind of feels like you're a mafia that's looking at other mafia members that are lurking and try to point vaguely to them to say that the mafiosi that are lurking are doing just fine, so why would you be mafia if you're not lurking? I mean, you do sound awfully sure that the "other" mafiosi are indeed lurking. But I'm willing to accept that as just poor wording.
In regards to other issues, I kinda see both Ltin's and Vatu's points against each other and I don't personally think either one is necessarily scummy. It feels like they just went into the game with different feelings regarding how to handle the situation. Ltin seems to want to get rid of all threats without the help of any third parties to minimise the risk of interference and potential shenanigans, and Vatu seems to want to trade that risk for greater potential of our problems working themselves out. Both are valid options, in my opinion, even if I have my reservations about either one of them, so I don't really have anything major to suspect them of, at this moment.
As for the thing between Notty and Inffy, I think Inffy just didn't notice how Notty already answered his (and mine, too) question about her inn, so I'll just quote it here:
I want to make another roleplay post, but I'll be going off pretty soon and won't be back until tomorrow night in my time at the earliest, so I think I'll reply to something that's been brought up about said roleplaying;
Yeah, it's something I enjoy doing. I wasn't really thinking of it as something that could be used for or against me, but in hindsight I probably should have figured ^_^' I do hope that I'll make actual meaningful discussions soon enough, but right now I've got to prepare to leave and don't have enough time to read through the posts that evidently spawned overnight and through the morning- and there's most definitely going to be more when I get back- crap, I seriously need to pay more attention to this, I evidently relaxed too much when holidays came. Mafia waits for no one, it seems, but right now, neither does life, so... Meep :c
Yeah, it's something I enjoy doing. I wasn't really thinking of it as something that could be used for or against me, but in hindsight I probably should have figured ^_^' I do hope that I'll make actual meaningful discussions soon enough, but right now I've got to prepare to leave and don't have enough time to read through the posts that evidently spawned overnight and through the morning- and there's most definitely going to be more when I get back- crap, I seriously need to pay more attention to this, I evidently relaxed too much when holidays came. Mafia waits for no one, it seems, but right now, neither does life, so... Meep :c
Mooglie
The Local Cow
i don't think i've ever seen someone get so much analysis on them by day 1
but honestly it's pretty much evident that Mars is probably mafia from that duo of Tim and ender de_stroying him
i guess if Mars does flip mafia the other members may have been lurking?
owell
vote MarsKid
but honestly it's pretty much evident that Mars is probably mafia from that duo of Tim and ender de_stroying him
and this quote just felt like so much of a slip to me ever since I saw it (even though there's so much other evidence) which pushed me off the fence
i guess if Mars does flip mafia the other members may have been lurking?
owell
vote MarsKid
Real life always takes priority. We understand. Also, I understand that you're writing in small text because you're nervous and don't want to feel intrusive (I've done it, too.), but it can be a bit hard to read.
1) You call it nitpicky; I call it thorough. I don't like when players I'm arguing against see that there's a small fraction of their post that I haven't addressed, and instead of addressing my points, they simply go back to the one that I said nothing about. It's frustrating to no end. Doing it this way keeps everything very clear and concise, and also importantly, keeps it to as few posts as possible so it's easier to look back on.
2) Stating obvious facts is not the same as contributing to discussion. I like the way Ender phrases it: "Active lurking."
3) It's the way you worded it, referring to yourself along with "other mafia members."
4) Again I feel the need to highlight the fact that obvious factual statements are not the same as contributions.
4.1) a) Is there anything else to be doing at the moment? b) One. One post. And I'm just going to redirect you to 1.
5) Your point was irrelevant, so I responded with another irrelevant point saying it gave no credit to the argument. Either you need to read better, or you're being overly defensive.
6) Despite cohosting that game, I didn't have access to a computer at almost any point, so couldn't fully follow the game. I had forgotten that game actually happened (not to mention, it was a really long time ago, in relative terms. We can cease discussion on past games now, as it's really not relevant.
7) You could've, sure, but you knew that it would be a worse option, despite your claims (See below). Could just be a difference of opinion, but I think lynching Infected, or more specifically pushing for a lynch on him, would be a terrible move for an anti-town.
7.1) Could just be me, but I'm pretty sure it would. Leading a lynch based solely on the fact that his innmates had died? That'd look pretty scummy since, as you said, he'd be an easy target.
7.2) A better option than....? Like, what path did you take instead? "Contributing" to discussion? (see 2 and 4)
8) I don't quite understand what it is you're trying to say from here to the end of the post, so there's no real way I can respond to it.
9) Why would I not be making effort against someone I believe is mafia? I put effort into all of my arguments. To not put effort into an argument is to essentially say "I don't care enough to actually try, so I'll put it this way 'I think you're scum I'm gonna vote for you see you at the next votecount.'" Obviously, that's oversimplifying it, but you get my point.
9.1) Is it though? It's important to remember how that suspicion got there: Your actions. The way you worded certain things. The way you've reacted.
It almost seems to me that you're using the argument of "Look how hard he's trying to lynch me!" to defend yourself, but look at it this way: Deconstructing arguments is my strong suit. Why wouldn't I spend most of my time doing that?
Infected_alien8_
Garry's Mod Admin
Also personally I don't see this:
"I could easily just lurk and cash in a win with relative ease, like so many other mafia members have"
as a slip - I read it in terms of "like so many other mafia members have in the past", not "like the other mafia members in the game" have, and I read the "other mafia members" in terms of "if I were indeed mafia, I could do this like other mafias have done". So personally this statement hasn't knocked me over the fence, but Mars is my #1 suspicion right now purely based on vibes from his reactions and stuff (which Ender can probably somehow rationalise with his magical powers or something), so if nothing else comes up I'll probably place my vote on him (sorry Mars).
"I could easily just lurk and cash in a win with relative ease, like so many other mafia members have"
as a slip - I read it in terms of "like so many other mafia members have in the past", not "like the other mafia members in the game" have, and I read the "other mafia members" in terms of "if I were indeed mafia, I could do this like other mafias have done". So personally this statement hasn't knocked me over the fence, but Mars is my #1 suspicion right now purely based on vibes from his reactions and stuff (which Ender can probably somehow rationalise with his magical powers or something), so if nothing else comes up I'll probably place my vote on him (sorry Mars).
JKangaroo
Your Local, Neighborhood Marsupial
I don't see Ltin as suspicious, he's actually a player I relatively trust at the moment. That may be largely because I agree with him at this point in time.
...I agree with his stance at least. Perhaps not the vote, just the general stance he's holding.
I only say that because it seems like it should be addressed as it's a smaller discussion alongside the current focus on Mars, and because it actually leads into the later discussion.
Because of this:
The quote above instead I feel has more "issues" with it. Ender basically has already said what I'm about to say:
He's been active, but never felt like a "target." The most that anyone's been a target was Infected with the (in my eyes) poor argument of him being the last alive in an inn made him suspicious due to patterns found in previous games, and... maybe(?) Vatu with the strange logic surrounding Day0 but that passed quickly.
As ender has said, previously it was just Inffy and my "dumb reasoning," which I thought when posting that was pretty much a throw-away comment, something that wasn't quite serious at all. I even said it was dumb myself so I thought it wasn't a line of logic worth pursuing.
And for future reference and to bring this somewhat fractured post full circle, the "dumb reasoning" was basically what Ltin has been pushing:
When people responded to Ender's question, I personally thought anyone who suggested the Mafia were the major threat compared to the zombies to be suspicious... but not really by much, because that's a dumb line of logic to pursue, and I believe ender has once again stated how I feel more eloquently:
The thought that Mars has been under suspicion all day may be partly due to me and Inffy's "dumb reasoning/gut feeling" being pretty vague, but that shouldn't have caused what feels like a somewhat knee-jerk reaction to form a statement like that, especially for a relatively experienced player like Mars, and to me feels panicked, and used as an argument just for the sake of having more firepower to throw at ender's original accusation to throw off suspicion; it feels needless, and a bit scummy.
I also found the sort of defeatist comment made a few posts above suspicious... and kinda disheartening. But I may just be viewing that from a sort of point of exhaustion after-the-fact now that things have kind of died down.
I'm not going to cast a vote yet. I'm going to wait and reread things a bit. This post is to just throw my hat into the ring a bit with some thoughts and maybe give more context for certain arguments for both sides, even if this posts contribution is very minor.
(And boy, now that I'm finished, my comment earlier definitely feels true about my post being kinda fractured and not really having a clear flow of thinking or explanation. Hopefully it's not confusing or useless!)
...I agree with his stance at least. Perhaps not the vote, just the general stance he's holding.
I only say that because it seems like it should be addressed as it's a smaller discussion alongside the current focus on Mars, and because it actually leads into the later discussion.
Because of this:
I don't quite agree with the "other mafia" comment being that much of a sort of smoking gun/slip/etc; it just feels like poor wording and I originally took it as "if I was mafia, I could just do what past mafia have done." Maybe the argument that it's a slip has somewhat felt true, especially at a second glance, but it's not quite convincing to me.
The quote above instead I feel has more "issues" with it. Ender basically has already said what I'm about to say:
I honestly haven't felt like Mars has been at all a target today until the very recent splurge of activity thanks to Ender.
He's been active, but never felt like a "target." The most that anyone's been a target was Infected with the (in my eyes) poor argument of him being the last alive in an inn made him suspicious due to patterns found in previous games, and... maybe(?) Vatu with the strange logic surrounding Day0 but that passed quickly.
As ender has said, previously it was just Inffy and my "dumb reasoning," which I thought when posting that was pretty much a throw-away comment, something that wasn't quite serious at all. I even said it was dumb myself so I thought it wasn't a line of logic worth pursuing.
And for future reference and to bring this somewhat fractured post full circle, the "dumb reasoning" was basically what Ltin has been pushing:
When people responded to Ender's question, I personally thought anyone who suggested the Mafia were the major threat compared to the zombies to be suspicious... but not really by much, because that's a dumb line of logic to pursue, and I believe ender has once again stated how I feel more eloquently:
I didn't pursue it because of basically what ender said: it's just different ways of viewing how the game could pan out and both are pretty much reasonable and understandable; it really just depends on what side of the fence you're on, and a lot of people have said both: I could've picked either Ender or Tim as well since they said the same "mafia now, zombies more dangerous as the game goes on." In a sense, I basically just picked a name out of a hat to express the dumb suspicion I had alongside my suspicion of Vatu in my first post.
The thought that Mars has been under suspicion all day may be partly due to me and Inffy's "dumb reasoning/gut feeling" being pretty vague, but that shouldn't have caused what feels like a somewhat knee-jerk reaction to form a statement like that, especially for a relatively experienced player like Mars, and to me feels panicked, and used as an argument just for the sake of having more firepower to throw at ender's original accusation to throw off suspicion; it feels needless, and a bit scummy.
I also found the sort of defeatist comment made a few posts above suspicious... and kinda disheartening. But I may just be viewing that from a sort of point of exhaustion after-the-fact now that things have kind of died down.
I'm not going to cast a vote yet. I'm going to wait and reread things a bit. This post is to just throw my hat into the ring a bit with some thoughts and maybe give more context for certain arguments for both sides, even if this posts contribution is very minor.
(And boy, now that I'm finished, my comment earlier definitely feels true about my post being kinda fractured and not really having a clear flow of thinking or explanation. Hopefully it's not confusing or useless!)
Maybe back when I took this game completely seriously and took no joy out of it, I would be perfectly willing and able to dissect doctoral dissertations. But there's no way I'm going to continue to attempt to reply to someone who will take every fragment of my sentence and put it through a paper shredder. It's not worth it.
Votecount - A reminder that Deadline is soooon[sup]TM[/sup]
Marskid - Enderfive Timdood3 Vatumok Ooglie101(4/8)
Ltin - Nottykitten (1/8)
Vatumok - Ltin (1/8)
Timdood3 - Marskid (1/8)
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch and 7 to no-lynch.
A reminder that I do appreciate the increase in activity, but there are still a couple of people that should contribute more. (poking people that haven't posted in awhile)
Oak63
Runemen4
Dessern5
Mulbery
Deadline at 11pm GMT, December 7
Marskid - Enderfive Timdood3 Vatumok Ooglie101(4/8)
Ltin - Nottykitten (1/8)
Vatumok - Ltin (1/8)
Timdood3 - Marskid (1/8)
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch and 7 to no-lynch.
A reminder that I do appreciate the increase in activity, but there are still a couple of people that should contribute more. (poking people that haven't posted in awhile)
Oak63
Runemen4
Dessern5
Mulbery
Deadline at 11pm GMT, December 7
Oak Milk
Kill Hungry Thirsty Dead
Well I mean, you could have claimed a role Mars
vote MarsKid
But if you are going to give up like this well I'm certainly not going to be convinced that ender and others are not wrong in their arguments against you.
vote MarsKid
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