Hectic Hawaii (Game Over)
- Thread starter Timdood3
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cooliorules
That Awkward Noodle
Okay honestly just straight up stating it like that always puts me off. I remember a long while back (2 or 3 season back?) I just said as my defence 'I'm town I'm down don't lynch me'. That's fairly similar to what you're saying and it the tip of the iceberg for me. Not only this but 3 third party just seems too unlikely. Sooooo:
vote Fiestaguy
vote Fiestaguy
GmK
International Man Of Cake
Since your host, Timdood3, is currently residing in a whirlpool in one of the resorts, allow me to do a quick voting status:
Fiestaguy - 3 - cooliorules, Nottykitten, Ooglie101 (L-2)
Not voting: endersteve5, Caffeinatedkitten, Fiestaguy, xXxFruitNinjaxXx, Duffie
It takes 5 to lynch and 4 to no-lynch.
Fiestaguy - 3 - cooliorules, Nottykitten, Ooglie101 (L-2)
Not voting: endersteve5, Caffeinatedkitten, Fiestaguy, xXxFruitNinjaxXx, Duffie
It takes 5 to lynch and 4 to no-lynch.
Enderfive
sarcasm incarnate
It'll be the length of an Ender post, which is quite lengthy as well. I've been writing it the whole two hours, it takes time to gather all my thoughts, find ways and words to express those thoughts and gather the citations and make sure all my info is correct.
It might take some more time, so hang in there.
Enderfive
sarcasm incarnate
Okay, let's get started. I'm gonna explain to you my actions and put up my defense first, then move on to my own theories.
My defense
Simply going to reply to every bit brought up against me and perhaps add some as well. From the beginning.
"He was the first to vote No Lynch on Day 0, obviously he was excited to get to Night already so he could start killing people."
Yes, I know that I've always supported a lynch on Day 0 and I still support a lynch and I still supported a lynch then as well, as I remarked quite a few times, but I also explained my No Lynch vote. It was because the majority always feels like lynching on Day 0 is bad for some reason, so instead of spending the whole day trying to convince you to change your minds and making a few enemies in the process (enemies that I certainly did not need this early in the game), I opted for the easy way to get the game going, which was for the Night to begin and some evidence and proof to come our way.
In addition, if I was mafia, I'd have chosen the predictable way of explaining why a lynch would be best for two reasons:
1) It was the thing you'd expect from me, so you wouldn't pay too much attention to it and I'd be less likely to be regarded as suspicious for it.
2) If I was mafia, I'd probably have known who my teammates were, which means that I would've been rather confident in my (and my teammates') ability to direct the suspicion on someone else, bringing the mafia closer to victory.
3) If a mafia member would have indeed been lynched, I would have definitely had supported it (at least when I realized I couldn't save him/her) and gained at least some of your trust by doing so.
"He's stalling the vote to give himself time to come up with a role."; "He wouldn't need to keep track of what he's been saying if he wasn't lying, that must mean he's lying and that must mean he's mafia!"
I've already explained why this is not correct, but for the sake of having a complete defense in one post, I'll post it again.
"His roleclaim sounds convincing, but I guess the mafia could have such roles as well..."
That's not even a valid point. Any role could have a mafia counterpart, the only reason you're saying something like this is that you can't find anything to prove your suspicion with any more, but since you thought I was mafia at one point, you'll have the nagging feeling at the back of your head for the remainder of the game. Ignore that nagging feel, please. It'll save everyone a lot of trouble.
"He's mafia because his role counters the 3rd Party roles."
Not a valid point either, because my role counters pretty much every role claimed besides the cop. Think of me as a sort of an Inn-related Roleblocker. And since somewhere in those claimed roles there must be at least two mafia (since there's no way there's only one mafioso), then I'm also countering the mafia. I'll admit, not in a very effective way, since I can't stop them from killing anyone, or so it would seem, at least, but a counter nevertheless, so that point is also invalid.
And that was everything you managed to throw at me. Notty did mention "acting generally strange", but because of the vagueness of the reason, I'm afraid I cannot provide a counter to that. If you find any more reasons as to why you should lynch me, then I'll be happy to hear and disprove those as well.
Theories
Gonna do this in the good ol' "What I think of everyone" method and then maybe come up with more elaborate theories, if I find time for it or if I can remember them all from last night when my mind was working on overdrive.
Caffeina - I don't have a strong opinion about her. The townie claim could be either fake and the easy way out of the claim round, or it could be thrown in there by Tim to mess with us. I'm actually leaning on her being town, rather than mafia at the moment, since she didn't lose her head in the critical moment when Ooglie decided she had to be the SK, but the leaning is rather slight.
Duffie - Damn, I have never seen a person harder for me to read in mafia than you. You're exactly the same in every single mafia game, and I've no idea if I should trust you or not. I'm gonna take your word for now since you and Coolio both say you're together in this game and I kind of find Coolio to be easy to believe at the moment because of the cop report and whatnot.
Notty and Ooglie are my number 1 candidates for possible mafia at the moment. More on that a little further into my post. Ooglie's roleclaim is obviously truthful, but as he said about me, I say about him: it's the alignment that I question.
Fiesta - He could be the third 3rd Party role in this game, which I find to be a bit of an overkill, but you never know.
Ender - pls no lynch i iz twon
Fruit - I feel that his cop claim is truthful. If he's not the cop, then the mafia won't kill him tonight and if he is the cop then they will kill him tonight. They can't risk letting the cop live and get a guilty investigation on someone. Mind you, this isn't absolute since I said it out loud, but I'd say it's a pretty strong possibility that if he doesn't die, he's lying. So, why lynch him now when we're not certain and feel more like he could be the cop, right?
To recap, here's a colour-coded guide to my suspicion levels:
Notty, Ooglie, Fiesta, Caffeina, Duffie. Coolio, Fruit, Ender.
Now, moving on to my theory about who is mafia and why.
I believe that Notty and Ooglie are the mafiosi right now. It's nothing in the way they have been working as individually in this game, but it is in the way they have been working together.
If we examine the way Notty and Ooglie have been playing in this game, I'm sure you will notice that when one says something, the other tends to pick up on it. Examples:
If I had to choose a third mafioso, I'd pick Caff, since she's the least trustworthy of the non-suspicious ones to me, mainly because bussing Fiesta at this point would be an extremely idiotic move from Notty and Ooglie, so they wouldn't do it. Which means that Fiesta most likely isn't mafia.
Or I could be wrong and Fiesta is mafia after all. That would mean that either Notty or Ooglie, or both, isn't mafia, but I've already explained why I don't feel like this is the case here.
Now waiting for your questions, counters, pointing out my logic flaws, and so on and so forth.
My defense
Simply going to reply to every bit brought up against me and perhaps add some as well. From the beginning.
"He was the first to vote No Lynch on Day 0, obviously he was excited to get to Night already so he could start killing people."
Yes, I know that I've always supported a lynch on Day 0 and I still support a lynch and I still supported a lynch then as well, as I remarked quite a few times, but I also explained my No Lynch vote. It was because the majority always feels like lynching on Day 0 is bad for some reason, so instead of spending the whole day trying to convince you to change your minds and making a few enemies in the process (enemies that I certainly did not need this early in the game), I opted for the easy way to get the game going, which was for the Night to begin and some evidence and proof to come our way.
In addition, if I was mafia, I'd have chosen the predictable way of explaining why a lynch would be best for two reasons:
1) It was the thing you'd expect from me, so you wouldn't pay too much attention to it and I'd be less likely to be regarded as suspicious for it.
2) If I was mafia, I'd probably have known who my teammates were, which means that I would've been rather confident in my (and my teammates') ability to direct the suspicion on someone else, bringing the mafia closer to victory.
3) If a mafia member would have indeed been lynched, I would have definitely had supported it (at least when I realized I couldn't save him/her) and gained at least some of your trust by doing so.
"He's stalling the vote to give himself time to come up with a role."; "He wouldn't need to keep track of what he's been saying if he wasn't lying, that must mean he's lying and that must mean he's mafia!"
I've already explained why this is not correct, but for the sake of having a complete defense in one post, I'll post it again.
As I'm sure this post will demonstrate, I have a lot of thoughts that I feel like I want out there and it will get hard to keep track of all of them with the hectic pace the game has been going in. That's all there is to it. And, of course the fact that I did think the game was going too fast and some of the other players who were sleeping at the time would wake up to a motherload of a mess of unpolished posts and I didn't want that to happen. Especially since it was getting hard for myself to keep track of everything you were saying.
"His roleclaim sounds convincing, but I guess the mafia could have such roles as well..."
That's not even a valid point. Any role could have a mafia counterpart, the only reason you're saying something like this is that you can't find anything to prove your suspicion with any more, but since you thought I was mafia at one point, you'll have the nagging feeling at the back of your head for the remainder of the game. Ignore that nagging feel, please. It'll save everyone a lot of trouble.
"He's mafia because his role counters the 3rd Party roles."
Not a valid point either, because my role counters pretty much every role claimed besides the cop. Think of me as a sort of an Inn-related Roleblocker. And since somewhere in those claimed roles there must be at least two mafia (since there's no way there's only one mafioso), then I'm also countering the mafia. I'll admit, not in a very effective way, since I can't stop them from killing anyone, or so it would seem, at least, but a counter nevertheless, so that point is also invalid.
And that was everything you managed to throw at me. Notty did mention "acting generally strange", but because of the vagueness of the reason, I'm afraid I cannot provide a counter to that. If you find any more reasons as to why you should lynch me, then I'll be happy to hear and disprove those as well.
Theories
Gonna do this in the good ol' "What I think of everyone" method and then maybe come up with more elaborate theories, if I find time for it or if I can remember them all from last night when my mind was working on overdrive.
Caffeina - I don't have a strong opinion about her. The townie claim could be either fake and the easy way out of the claim round, or it could be thrown in there by Tim to mess with us. I'm actually leaning on her being town, rather than mafia at the moment, since she didn't lose her head in the critical moment when Ooglie decided she had to be the SK, but the leaning is rather slight.
Duffie - Damn, I have never seen a person harder for me to read in mafia than you. You're exactly the same in every single mafia game, and I've no idea if I should trust you or not. I'm gonna take your word for now since you and Coolio both say you're together in this game and I kind of find Coolio to be easy to believe at the moment because of the cop report and whatnot.
Notty and Ooglie are my number 1 candidates for possible mafia at the moment. More on that a little further into my post. Ooglie's roleclaim is obviously truthful, but as he said about me, I say about him: it's the alignment that I question.
Fiesta - He could be the third 3rd Party role in this game, which I find to be a bit of an overkill, but you never know.
Ender - pls no lynch i iz twon
Fruit - I feel that his cop claim is truthful. If he's not the cop, then the mafia won't kill him tonight and if he is the cop then they will kill him tonight. They can't risk letting the cop live and get a guilty investigation on someone. Mind you, this isn't absolute since I said it out loud, but I'd say it's a pretty strong possibility that if he doesn't die, he's lying. So, why lynch him now when we're not certain and feel more like he could be the cop, right?
To recap, here's a colour-coded guide to my suspicion levels:
Notty, Ooglie, Fiesta, Caffeina, Duffie. Coolio, Fruit, Ender.
Now, moving on to my theory about who is mafia and why.
I believe that Notty and Ooglie are the mafiosi right now. It's nothing in the way they have been working as individually in this game, but it is in the way they have been working together.
If we examine the way Notty and Ooglie have been playing in this game, I'm sure you will notice that when one says something, the other tends to pick up on it. Examples:
Once Notty voted me, Ooglie replied he had heavy suspicion on me, once Notty unvotes and says I could still be mafia, even though my claim sounds convincing, Ooglie says basically the exact same thing, etc. I think you all get the point. Now that Fiesta makes the mistake of claiming a third 3rd Party role, which people consider highly unlikely, they jump on him. They simply seem to be working together and I don't like it at all.
If I had to choose a third mafioso, I'd pick Caff, since she's the least trustworthy of the non-suspicious ones to me, mainly because bussing Fiesta at this point would be an extremely idiotic move from Notty and Ooglie, so they wouldn't do it. Which means that Fiesta most likely isn't mafia.
Or I could be wrong and Fiesta is mafia after all. That would mean that either Notty or Ooglie, or both, isn't mafia, but I've already explained why I don't feel like this is the case here.
Now waiting for your questions, counters, pointing out my logic flaws, and so on and so forth.
Nottykitten
Nomnomnom kitteh!
How many Mafia do you think there are?
I know my role, and I trust that he is the same.
Great minds think alike.
Mooglie
The Local Cow
#1: Double bluffs.
#2: Never said that so can't argue against~
#3: No town roles have the ability to switch so it's specifically made to go up against Third Party. A town role for this would be useless since the win condition is to have all threats eliminated, and these Third Parties do not appear to be a threat. The Mafia would probably have an 'Eliminate all town and third party or be 50%' which is the typical one, meaning the role would be perfect.
#4: I don't see why #3 and #4 are separate points.
Teaming point: Wait what? You asked a question, I answered and vice versa. The answers were pretty obvious and anyone could have easily figured them out. Other than that we haven't teamed at all.
All I have to say.
Still convinced your Mafia though.
also inb4 fiesta steals all of ender's points to try and defend himself.
#2: Never said that so can't argue against~
#3: No town roles have the ability to switch so it's specifically made to go up against Third Party. A town role for this would be useless since the win condition is to have all threats eliminated, and these Third Parties do not appear to be a threat. The Mafia would probably have an 'Eliminate all town and third party or be 50%' which is the typical one, meaning the role would be perfect.
#4: I don't see why #3 and #4 are separate points.
Teaming point: Wait what? You asked a question, I answered and vice versa. The answers were pretty obvious and anyone could have easily figured them out. Other than that we haven't teamed at all.
All I have to say.
Still convinced your Mafia though.
also inb4 fiesta steals all of ender's points to try and defend himself.
Mooglie
The Local Cow
(for reasons I explained)
Didn't even catch that, but mine was for separate reasons (I can see why #3 and #4 were disconnected now)
Despite him being one of the more likely suspects from before. Did him being the third 3rd party make me more suspicious and end up in my lynch? Indeed. But it wasn't since others found him suspicious, it was because I found him suspicious.
plus I'm pretty sure Coolio was the only who posted before I made my post.
Also said that I would make my EXECUTIVE decision after Fiesta claimed.
(i have forgotten to make obligatory phoenix wright references throughout this)
Enderfive
sarcasm incarnate
I don't know, do I? You on the other hand have been convinced the whole time there's three mafia. I can see now why you've been convinced, but still, if you were town, you just couldn't know for sure.
Double bluffs are pointless since once you're suspicious, people will hold on to that suspicion and once you give them reasons why your course of action is idiotic, they're going to say "double bluffs", so it doesn't exactly benefit you if you're actually double-bluffing.
There are claimed third party roles and claimed town roles which move people around inns. You should know that of all people, considering how you yourself claimed exactly one such role. Doesn't matter if the role switches other people around or intercepts switches or moves itself around the inns, my role stops them from moving. If I use my ability on someone, they stay in that hotel. I don't know the exact details since I've never even heard of my role before, but that much I've figured out.
"For reasons I explained" yeah, after (or before, the timing's not important in this particular point I'm making) Notty gave the same reasons.
"Separate reasons than Notty" I don't recall Notty giving any reasons anyway, so it's not separate, it's expanding.
"Because I found him suspicious, not because others did, also I spoke before Notty" I would have found Fiesta most suspicious as well, if it weren't for you and Notty. As for the second part, again, timing's not important, what is important is the fact that it I get the feeling you're working together.
And Notty saying stuff like "I still find Ender the most suspicious" without giving any reasoning after she claims that she didn't find anything in particular about me guilty any more or "I know I'm Town" and then not giving any actual reasoning why she is town or "Great minds think alike" as if that is some actual logic isn't exactly helping either of you, too, in my eyes at least.
Mooglie
The Local Cow
??? I don't see where I said that.
That, in my eyes, seems like a rubbish and easy to explain reason why you won't vote for Fiesta.
I don't see why you're pairing me and Notty together either. We're completely separate and I haven't done anything based on their actions. If I voted for Fiesta since people were finding him suspicious, wouldn't have I of voted for you when both Fruit and Notty had a vote on you (I believe they had a vote at the same time) which would draw more votes due to Fruit being there? Back then I didn't see you exactly lynch worthy (which is why I placed heavy suspicion) but due to new reasoning you are my second highest suspicion, after Fiesta.
inb4 going to say 'owell you're defending eachother by saying your not a team which means you must be team!!11'
Nottykitten
Nomnomnom kitteh!
Well obviously you think there are atleast two since how else could me and Oog be a team?
We share the same opinion, it happens.
No why do I find you suspicious? Let's see. We have 8 people alive. I cross of one of that list since I doubt I'm secretly Mafia. So thats 7 suspects left. I trust Fruits claim so that clears Fruit and Coolio. There is 5 suspects left. Then it appears Ooglie is the same role as me so I'm pretty sure he's town aswell. There is 4 suspects left. Then it looks like Duffie is a third party team along with Coolio. Guess what? 3 suspects left.
And as it just so happens I think there are 3 Mafia. You, Fiesta and Caff. And I'm voting Fiesta right now because I don't really trust his claim, and while I don't really care which of you three gets lynched, he is still the best option in my opinion.
Fiestaguy
The man with 8 fingers.
As spoken before. There's no proof you or ooglie are town. Even if one of you two are town there's the high possibility the second one is a mafia member with the same power... Furthermore we still don't know if fruit's claim (Wich you two obviously seem to blindly trust) is legit. And your blind trust seems slightly dodgy to me.
Theory?
Fruit, Notty and Ooglie are the mafia.
Ender, 77, Ltin and Caff are town.
Me, Coolio and Duffie are the third party.
Why is the possibility you three are mafia?
Fruit investigated Coolio and then claiming her innocent. He probably thought it'd be most likely Coolio would be town. To gain the town's trust he labelled coolio innocent wich you two immediately accepted without question and came barging in with a theory quicker than the modern major general could say "In conics I can floor peculiarities parabulous" asking for the third party. After asking to if someone else questioned fruit's claim Notty replied with "I trust because I thought he was a cop before he claimed" and awkwardly answered "Because he seemed cop-like" after being questioned upon why Notty thought he was cop. Honestly. Not much can be derived for peoples' roles by their statements. Only their playstyle and their alignments.
Else from that. Nobody really answered the question.
Then when Fruit realised Coolio's third party claim Ooglie came barging in with "Ow but third party mostly turns up innocent for cops"
Furthermore. Is claiming cop seriously something fruit would do first instead of trying to steer the game towards a no-lynch for an extra investigation and then barging in with both investigations for higher chances of hitting scum rather than claiming suicidally?
Lastly. Not sure if I asked this before but, I still don't really see how my win condition is an anomaly. It still fits in with the theme quite normally. Ooglie101 ?
Anyone got comments on this theory?
Nottykitten
Nomnomnom kitteh!
Uuhm no? I said that I thought he was the cop not because anyone asked, I said it right after he claimed as an explaination to why I trust his claim. And I didn't answer "awkwardly" that he seemed cop-like, I said that I found his post to seem cop-like.
And yes, alot can be derived of peoples roles by their statements. Obviously its alot harder in a setup with new made-up roles, but still I thought he was the cop and he was. No way I can prove that to you but still its true.
Have you been reading the thread backwards? Because things you are saying did not happen in the order you say they did. Ooglie came up with the theory of people possibly being Third Party and backed it up with the possibility that Coolio could be one because of Third Parties showing up as innocent. Fruit realising Coolio's third party claim came way, way later.
Errr, where were you when nobody was supporting my No Lynch idea? It was clear that people weren't going to No Lynch today because they wanted a lynch. The cop claiming after that was not suicidally at all. It was our only chance of getting more information on who to lynch.
Fiestaguy
The man with 8 fingers.
Let's just...
Clearly I asked the question "Why did you think fruit was a cop?" whereupon you answered that his post was cop-like. Since I asked why you trusted him BEFORE the claim you must've understood/answered the question wrongly.
Page 9 in case you suspect me of bullshitting the quotes in my favor.
No, actually I did not read the thread backwards. I have this thing where I start at number 1 and count upwards
It's fun! Oh and sorry. I meant to say 'When OOGLIE'.Pretty sure I was laying on my bed checking out the new FNAF song. It actually was suicidal because it made him a target to the mafia. And this goes in circles considering neither of us can prove what fruit would really want (more info to lynch today or extra much info the day after on who to lynch)
Nottykitten
Nomnomnom kitteh!
Yeah you did ask that. But before that I already said that I thought Fruit was a cop pretty much right after he claimed.You're changing the story and make it seem like my answer totally suspicious.
Well you're a bit late saying that No Lynching was the better option. And it wasn't suicidal but honestly I see no point in arguing why it wasn't.
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