The Red Scare [Game Over]

[Iggish]

Please quote

K, gimme a few minutes

 

[Enderfive]

I wasn't pushing for the vig identity. I accused Aqua of being the vig once, how is that pushing?

excuse me, here is you trying to open a discussion regarding the vig after the current day started:

Also, can anyone remember anyone else being suspicious of mulb? I can't so maybe the vig just didn't voice their opinions or went for a random kill.

Also if I was a mafia, why would I openly discuss who I think the vig is?

becauee you've no idea and want to have an idea or you have a slight idea but want to be more sure in it

i don't really think i need to explain why it would be beneficial for the mafia and only for the mafia to know the identity of the town's last pr

 

[Iggish]

Also, can anyone remember anyone else being suspicious of mulb? I can't so maybe the vig just didn't voice their opinions or went for a random kill.

It's not illegal to talk about the vigilante.

I will first to start with why I believe Caff was killed.
Currently the Mafias most of all want to kill the vigilante. As I have said before I believed that the Vigilante could have decided to not kill the first day, (or the vigilante killed Hip, or the cop saved the vigkill). If the vigilante actually did decide to not kill the first day, it could mean that, as Caffe said well herself:
One of the more careful players would probably not go for a lynch the first day. There was 12 people who voted for a lynch first day, while 9 of them was for a jivvi-lunch (as from what I can see. Correct me if I am wrong). If we now look at the people who did no vote that day we find: Mulbery, Jivvi, Caffe and Ooglie. Since Jivvi was lynched first day and Mulbery was mafia, we are left with Ooglie and Caffe. The mafias might have thought this way, and killed one of them to try to take the Vigilante. Also, if it turned out that Caff was not a vigilante, it could look like the vigilante killed her. However, that would depend on who the vigilante killed.
Since caff turned out to be a doctor, and everyone who did not want a lynch on day 0 are lynched, except for Ooglie which most likely is a cult leader, it makes me wonder if the vigilante did try to kill someone first day. If he did, the doctor would have saved someone, and since a doctor wants to save people he/she thinks are townies. While none of this has to be true, I do wonder if Caff saved someone Infected was suspicious of. If so, she might have thought that Infected was a mafia and been the reason for why she tunnelled Infected. That might be why she wanted to vote for weak, since Infected didn’t.

Here unu has made a long post on night kills and vigilante motives. I've included it here to show you that trying to find the motives for a vigkill isn't necessarily scummy at all. And no, I'm not trying to put attention onto unu, this is just an example.

 

[Nottykitten]

It's not illegal to talk about the vigilante.

Here unu has made a long post on night kills and vigilante motives. I've included it here to show you that trying to find the motives for a vigkill isn't necessarily scummy at all. And no, I'm not trying to put attention onto unu, this is just an example.

It is scummy. Not a little bit, but actually a lot. The post you quoted was not at all about figuring out who the vig was, but instead about the fact the Mafia might of thought Caff was the vigilante and thats why caff died. Only the last part a bit which he shouldn't of said but thats alot less than you have said.

Ender has said it well enough, talking about the identity of the vig is a no-go.

 

[Iggish]

Anyone else seeing how ender/iggish/HKCaper + Aqua might be teaming up? They started ganging up against inf at the beginning, and now when Iggish votes for me they all decide to assist him? The contradict here is that HK suspects iggish(?), but he hasnt really supported that idea.

pis aller

Vote Aqua

Okay, so a few things have happened IRL which I have to prioritize, so I will just quick come up with my opinion.

In my last post, I showed the votes and suspicions by Iggish, Ender, Foggy and Aqua through the entire game, because I saw a voting pattern. They pretty much all had suspicions and voted for the same people, without suspecting eachother.

About your theory, I can see your reasons for connecting me, Infected and Notty, but not for Weak. He said he was suspicious of Iggish, and thought Infected was a villager, and that for sure means he is a part of our “team”. I believe the only reason you included Weak was that he already was in a bad light, and it would absorb some non-mafia votes. I am not saying that I don’t find Weak’s responses suspicious, but I as I believe Iggish, Foggy, Ender and Aqua are mafias, I will for now not vote for him.

Also, if we end up lynching a non-mafia now, I believe it is up to Vigilante to save us. I don’t think townies will win this game if a mafia don’t get killed this day or night.

Unvote
Vote Aqua

This is just one example where you seem to defend him without a lot of evidence at all. I don't see how it can be denied that weak is acting scummy whether he actually is mafia or not. The people who don't think weak is behaving strangely are probably teamed with him.

 

[Unusual_Dood]

In that post, I just said that I couldn't see the connection between Weak and me, inf and Notty. How is that to defend him?

 

[Iggish]

but thats alot less than you have said.

No it's not. I have mentioned the Vig two times. The first time was a blatant mistake as I remember that in the last mafia game I played years ago, the vigilante was a sort of third party person or something, sorry for being vague but I can't really remember the details.

The second time, I can see how you guys think that it is scummy but if it is so suspicious, how come you didn't mention it then? I don't find my post any different from the other posts people have made (like unu's which mention and touch into the subject of the vig), but ofcourse, I'm bias.

 

[Iggish]

In that post, I just said that I couldn't see the connection between Weak and me, inf and Notty. How is that to defend him?

If that's not satisfactory I'll go back further, gimme a bit longer.

 

[Fog]

Ok so reading through this and having Oak confirm that Notty was bullshitting has left me with the question of 'why would Notty want to get me lynched' I'm not a proven Mafia (although I am not proven Town either rn) and if they are third party and only the majority vote counts then why are they so fixated on killing me? What have I done Notty?! ;-;

 

[Nottykitten]

Ok so reading through this and having Oak confirm that Notty was bullshitting has left me with the question of 'why would Notty want to get me lynched' I'm not a proven Mafia (although I am not proven Town either rn) and if they are third party and only the majority vote counts then why are they so fixated on killing me? What have I done Notty?! ;-;

Well like I said in my claim post. If you were to flip Mafia(pretty sure you will) I'd prove that I'm on the towns side and hopefully the vig would kill Oog for me. That was unlikely to happen but hey, I thought I'd give it a shot. Nevertheless while you're not proven Mafia I still think you are.

 

[Fog]

Also do we assume Samlen is Vanilla townie due to the fact they said they were going and night actions still happened?

 

[Iggish]

Okay so I was waiting for a reply to Iggish from Weak, but since he still hasn’t come with it I will come with some thoughts


You might have missed this ender. When Notty suspected me, he also suspected a few others. So: Weak - Iggish, Notty and HKCaper - Unu and notty.



There are a few things I also find suspicious about you ender. You first wanted a lynch first day, and pushed for it. You also asked for cult leaders to say who they were, with Infected (I think would be a bad thing if we lost our cult leaders and if mafias knew who they were, they could easily be targeted at nights). Now you also are "noticing things are going on between Notty, Inf, Oog and possibly Weak", as you said, which are three of the players who did not vote for lynching a townie. These are three moves that would be benefitual for the mafias.

Okay, so let’s move on to you, Iggish, who I find more suspicious at the moment.
What I find suspicious it not that you voted the same as Ender, but that you waited until other people had voted on the same person, before you gave your vote. You also seemed to use very similar reasons for lynching Infected as the others, but it is quite hard finding reasons to lynch someone day 0. However, if someone turns out to be townie the people who started the suspicion would be more likely to get the blame. If the player instead is a mafia, then he would be considered someone helping the lynch.


What you are saying is that you think two mafias voting for the same guy is unlikely. However, Ender does not have to be a mafia for you to mafia-benefitual vote the same as him, while being a mafia.


Weak suspecting me being mafia, does not make you a less mafia (if you were). He could be wrong or have changed his mind. What you are saying is that you think it is unlikely that we both are mafias, since I suspect you.


In one of your first posts (the first day) you said that you would lynch someone if you were suspicious of someone, even if there was not a lot of proofs to go on (that is at least how I read it). However, in your post lynching Jivvi you are saying the reason for lynching him which was that you wanted a lynch from the beginning and he was one that could end up getting lynched. That leads me to a question: Didn’t you just say that you would want to lynch someone if you are suspicious, while Jivvi hadn’t done anything suspicious, since he was away.



If you are a townie you seem to be very influenced by what the majority of the people mean. This is not really ideal since we want to take down the mafias, without out townies getting manipulated and votes at themselves. Your points against Weak seem fair, though.

Hi guys, just gonna let you know that I have been busy these last days because of a school task. I will post a detailed post about my thougths tomorrow or later today. (btw blame unu for the late reply, he litterary didnt post this when I told him he should)

Alright, I promised my opinion so here it is:
I think that Inffy is a villager. I mean it dosent make any sense for him to try to vote out hip and then to kill him on the first night. The mafia killed hip knowing that Inf suspected hip, so that people would start being suspicious. I mean it’s pretty dumb if he went «hurr durr lets vote hip out» then kill him on the night instead, if he is a mafia. He did have 5 votes on him the first day so it would not suprise me if the mafia intentially killed inf, knowing that people would be suspicious towards him. I think that the mafias are mostly the guys supporting the lynch on inffy, with very weak claims.

What I think about people:

-Inffy: Getting blamed on for hip. In my eyes innocent
-HKCaper: Instantly voting on inffy after hip was killed, because inffy «suspected» him. He is even trying to force a deadline (so that no one gets voted out?) because the thread is becoming «inactive», as if another dead person would help that. I am convinced he is a mafia.
-Iggish: I originally thought (and still thinks) that Iggish is mafia. But we probaly won’t get a majority vote for someone that dosent already have a vote. Honestly the discussing between us is mostly stupid right now, and I can’t be bothered with so little to work on.

My suspicious without claims:

-Unu: Probaly mafia, who knows. Can’t trust everyone
-Enderfive: He is probaly a mafia bud with HKCaper.
-Foggy: I think he is innocent. Havent really checked into his stuff yet.
-Aqua: Guarenteed to be mafia.
-As with the rest I have really no clue yet.


This game looks like to be VERY easy for the mafia right now, as we need 8 people to lynch someone. And obviously the mafia is trying to spread out our votes, as we need 8 votes to lynch someone. I mean at this point I can’t see how we, villagers, are going to even win this because we need to lynch at least 1 mafia in the next two round otherwise we’re dead. So right now there’s 14 people in this game, we need 8 to lynch, we have 9 non-mafias which means that we need almost all of the votes to vote someone out. I mean it’s obvious that we can’t reach 8 votes on someone unless someone does make it very clear their mafia. Is mafia usually this hard? Or is it more of a cult vs cult instead of mafia vs svillagers.

Also a question for Ltin: Can the mafia speak with each others during the day?

I'll agree on this but IF he turns out to be innocent, we'll lynch you next

Could you give me reasons why?
Everyone makes mistakes in lynching. At the moment, infected seems like the best option. Also, it's not only me who thinks that he is shady so why lynch me just because of it.
Also, if you agree with what I said then you have no issue with yourself being lynched also? I said:

Also, you said:

Why did you type "if" in caps? That's suggesting that you think he is guilty with only a small chance of being innocent. I doubt you would switch your mind so quickly from protecting him and thinking he is a town to think that there could be a chance that he is innocent.

What I'm saying is that if he turns out to be a mafia, you can lynch me afterwards. BUT IF HE IS INNOCENT WE LYNCH YOU NEXT.

Meanwhile, a couple of people are drawing lines between me and TWG and uno (both of them defending me), suggesting maybe we're all mafia - in which case I can't really respond with a defense other than "why would mafia make it that obvious", but then you could argue that they're inexperienced so that could happen. I mean maybe you guys are right, maybe the reason they're defending me is because they're mafia, and in which case, they anticipate my death and are trying to look innocent when that happens. Also, the people poking suspicions at anyone who defends me makes me suspicious of them, because 1) the points made in my defense are usually valid, logical and reasonable points, and 2) I feel like if people are dismissing these in favor of pointing out the fact that they're defending me, they're setting up an environment where anyone who defends me is put under suspicion, making it less likely that people defend me, making it more likely that I get lynched.

I just picked out some quotes which I found interesting about this matter unu.

 

[Nottykitten]

Also do we assume Samlen is Vanilla townie due to the fact they said they were going and night actions still happened?

Mafia can vote without him nontheless. I don't think he is Mafia however.

 

[Fog]

Well like I said in my claim post. If you were to flip Mafia(pretty sure you will) I'd prove that I'm on the towns side and hopefully the vig would kill Oog for me. That was unlikely to happen but hey, I thought I'd give it a shot. Nevertheless while you're not proven Mafia I still think you are.

So your way for proving that you are on the side of the town...is to lie to the town? Nice strat?

 

[Iggish]

Also do we assume Samlen is Vanilla townie due to the fact they said they were going and night actions still happened?

Or he could be a mafia, the other 3 (after aqua's death) could've voted and wouldn't have had to be involved. I don't think we should assume that he is townie just because they are afk.

 

[Iggish]

Mafia can vote without him nontheless. I don't think he is Mafia however.

Nvm, just say notty replied with the same thing.

 

[Nottykitten]

So your way for proving that you are on the side of the town...is to lie to the town? Nice strat?

When you flip Maf it would . Besides now I also know for sure that I can't convert Inf anymore.

 

[Mooglie]

So your way for proving that you are on the side of the town...is to lie to the town? Nice strat?

i mean thx for being the only one who has taken any notice of notty outright lying about everything but i guess it is because you're the one getting lynched

 

[Fog]

i mean thx for being the only one who has taken any notice of notty outright lying about everything but i guess it is because you're the one getting lynched

Well I mean you're actually telling the truth... which seems more beneficial at this stage

 

[Unusual_Dood]

I just picked out some quotes which I found interesting about this matter unu.

Which matter? Me defending Weak? Connecting weak to us?

 

[Nottykitten]

Well I mean you're actually telling the truth... which seems more beneficial at this stage

I mean I directed the lynch from Inf to Aqua yesterday that totally wasn't beneficial to the town. I'm just as beneficial as Oog at this point. Both are proven non-Mafia and thus a lynch on either of us is practically a mislynch.

 

[HKCaper]

I actually have a more absolute opinion on TWG and Unu, but I am waiting till I can reach Ltin to check if I am actual allowed to say it. Hang in there.

 

[Infected_alien8_]

It was a tradeoff, looking back it was a really bad tradeoff. If you turned out to be mafia, it'd be a succesful lynch and I would then "sacrifice" me. However if you were innocent, we would then lynch iggish (who I thought was suspicious at that time). From a innocent's point of view this looked like a good deal. However I just realised that if I was mafia I would know who's innocent and who's not, which makes the tradeoff very bad if I actually was mafia.

Thing is, even for an innocent, this wouldn't be a good deal, because just because Iggish thought I was mafia, it didn't necessarily mean he was mafia if he was wrong, which is why the idea had me suspicious of you, and still kind of does. In fact, iggy's theory kinda makes complete sense:

Also, you saying that if inf was lynched and flipped inno that everyone would lynch me? I can't help but think that this was another attempt to defend yourself / the mafia. Say that inf isn't mafia but you are. If he flipped inno then you'd have an easy excuse to try and take out another towny during the day I'm beginning to think that your protection of inf was just a farce to make you seem inno. You didn't even properly justify your protection of him aswell.

.

I don't see how that is a bad deal for a mafia, killing two townies during the day in a row.

(By 'bad' I think he meant from a townie's point of view.)
.

But I'm not actually proven Mafia? I'm confused by this statement xD

Wat? I know but I was saying, regardless of your alignment, why would notty want you lynched if she's sided with mafia (which has now been answered and my theory was mostly correct yay), since if you were inno she'd look like a liar and the plan would be super short term and if you're mafia then she'd be killing someone on her 'team'.

.

Regarding Ender's post, that makes sense and I guess it's just down to whether you believe it or not, which honestly I'm not sure about, because on one hand this theory would explain a lot of things as he said in his post, but on the other hand, and maybe I'm being dumb and underestimating him but for aqua to come up with that strategy kinda seems far-fetched but it could always happen I guess. Personally I'm inclined to leave Ender for the time being and lynch in others who are likely to be mafia, and see if Ender ends up being someone left alive near the end who is probably the last mafia out of everyone, and then obviously lynch him if he is.

I find it unlikely that both Unu and TWG are mafia.

Why?

Okay, coming with some thoughts...

I will first to start with why I believe Caff was killed.
Currently the Mafias most of all want to kill the vigilante. As I have said before I believed that the Vigilante could have decided to not kill the first day, (or the vigilante killed Hip, or the cop saved the vigkill). If the vigilante actually did decide to not kill the first day, it could mean that, as Caffe said well herself:

One of the more careful players would probably not go for a lynch the first day. There was 12 people who voted for a lynch first day, while 9 of them was for a jivvi-lunch (as from what I can see. Correct me if I am wrong). If we now look at the people who did no vote that day we find: Mulbery, Jivvi, Caffe and Ooglie. Since Jivvi was lynched first day and Mulbery was mafia, we are left with Ooglie and Caffe. The mafias might have thought this way, and killed one of them to try to take the Vigilante. Also, if it turned out that Caff was not a vigilante, it could look like the vigilante killed her. However, that would depend on who the vigilante killed.
Since caff turned out to be a doctor, and everyone who did not want a lynch on day 0 are lynched, except for Ooglie which most likely is a cult leader, it makes me wonder if the vigilante did try to kill someone first day. If he did, the doctor would have saved someone, and since a doctor wants to save people he/she thinks are townies. While none of this has to be true, I do wonder if Caff saved someone Infected was suspicious of. If so, she might have thought that Infected was a mafia and been the reason for why she tunnelled Infected. That might be why she wanted to vote for weak, since Infected didn’t.

.
I reall like most of your post but in this bit can I get some clarification on what you meant please? Caff didn't tunnel me, she town read me, so I'm confused about what you meant

Just wondering, how would you know Oak?

The result of the conversion is posted in the communist night chat
.
So far I'm thinking of either a TWG, Iggish or fog lynch. I find the theories around mulb voting Aqua rather than TWG interesting and am right now leaning towards thinking that the lybch yesterday was between two Mafia, and iggish's reactions are super scummy to me but then again I guess I can't talk and he could just be frustrated panicky town, and I'm still super suspicious about foggy' actions yesterday. I'd probably write something more thought out but I'm on mobile and it's painful

 

[Infected_alien8_]

Oh and Hk's defences and points are confusing me a bit so not sure what's going on there and I'm still suspicious of him too

 

[Unusual_Dood]

I reall like most of your post but in this bit can I get some clarification on what you meant please? Caff didn't tunnel me, she town read me, so I'm confused about what you meant

I thought you said you felt like she did somewhere. Or was that Aqua? :S