General Quarters [Game Over]
- Thread starter Ltin
- Start date
Although I have a report stating Notty is mafia I'm now a little uncertain to the legitimacy due to the fact I don't know any other role, I would say at this moment in time if we Lynch Notty and she is Town then HK would be the next suspect, however, if Notty is Mafia that doesn't mean HK isn't, as shown by Ltins last game where Inf and I were on the same team but bussing each other
I first voted to see if anyone joined the bandwagon.
D
Deleted member 4601
Guest
I'll just make a list of what has happened so far in the day because it's been pretty messy, and hopefully I can make sense of this.
Foggy:
Foggy's claim is only natural for him if he had that role, but as usual, I remain doubtful. His claims did get me thinking about the game setup has a whole, especially on the part where he mentioned that he, too, gets the results that the person he promotes gets. What I realised, was the implications of this - not only will he be able to tell the alignment of the investigated person, he is able to deduce the alignment of the person who he promotes based on their reaction to the report they get. Ideally, if that were the case, it would make far more sense for him not only to wait for someone else to confirm his claims, but also to conceal the fact that the target was Notty and the result was negative, since it is far more optimal for him to wait for Arelic to reveal the information instead.
I am, however, not skeptical of him based on that since he did what was natural for him to do - to wait for Arelic to respond to him, and his choice not to do what I mentioned there might have been either accidental or intentional, which given the fact that it doesn't really benefit town too much, really doesn't matter too much at this point. It is important to remain doubtful at this point, however, since it is entirely possible that Foggy and Arelic did plan this out earlier, and while the chances of this happening is relatively low, it is not low enough that we reject it either.
If Foggy were town then he would not be killed by mafia tonight. I'd say we'd have to wait and see, but honestly I don't want to risk it given just how beneficial his role can be.
Arelic:
I don't have much to say about Arelic besides the fact that she seemed rather resolute in her claims in support of Foggy. Anything else I have already mentioned in the text above. I am, however, skeptical because the more I think of it, the more possible it is for mafia to pull of a stunt that involves creating a new role like this given how the role doesn't restrict them in anyway nor is it difficult for them to continuously generate false data.
Notty:
I honestly have difficultly believing that Notty is innocent given how this puts three people as guilty. I do not want to rule out the possibility for her to be innocent, but I don't trust Notty, not any more than the three who have presented evidence against her. Given the circumstances however this is highly improbable since from the perspective of a mafia team that would hypothetically contain Foggy, Arelic and HK, it simply does not make sense to go out with such an elaborate lie just to squeeze a claim out of Notty then have her be counterclaimed. Granted, it is possible given the current setup for mafia to do so, but it is too much of a risk for them to go ahead with such a plan.
With this the first question I asked naturally was, if Notty were mafia, what would she do given the situation she was placed in? I'd like to lean back on my personal experience with her in previous games but going into this it is honestly different because Notty appears to be far less collected and reserved in this game. It would perhaps be natural to, in the best of her interests if she were town, suggest some sort of mechanism that would negate Foggy's claim rather than claiming that both of them were lying. To say the least, however, to point them out as liars just seems to me as highly unnecessary and much of a risk. Basically, even if there were evidence presented against you, there is still an inherent risk for you as a town to lynch all liars, because you would not want to rule out the scenario where there is an unknown mechanism working against town, especially in a closed setup. I'd like to hear more from Notty first because I don't wish to bark up the wrong tree right now.
Regarding other roles, Inffy's role seems to suggest some sort of role that cuts of the oxygen supply to someone every night. I highly doubt that such a role would be faked, given how it wouldn't make sense for town to make up such a role, and it would be too expensive for mafia to make up such a role and sustain it as a lie throughout the game. Myu's reactions to the game has also struck me as somewhat unusual, but I'd rather not take risks at this point. The same can be said to unu's reactions but I'd like to stay away from analysing voting patterns too much because they're not very good indicators most of the time.
Also to town: Please don't let this become a mass claim again. I am highly certain that this setup includes only a few power roles in total, and it would be detrimental to us if we were to let it happen. My estimates put mafia count to about 4 members, but it's still too early to say that at this point.
Events occurred in that order. My main focus earlier today was really about Inffy's oxygen supply and whether it would make sense to have such a role in the game at all, with respect to the current setup. But right now since there has been evidence that Notty is mafia and the situation just got a whole lot more chaotic I'll try to just list out all the players involved in the mess and just give my opinion on each one.
Foggy:
Foggy's claim is only natural for him if he had that role, but as usual, I remain doubtful. His claims did get me thinking about the game setup has a whole, especially on the part where he mentioned that he, too, gets the results that the person he promotes gets. What I realised, was the implications of this - not only will he be able to tell the alignment of the investigated person, he is able to deduce the alignment of the person who he promotes based on their reaction to the report they get. Ideally, if that were the case, it would make far more sense for him not only to wait for someone else to confirm his claims, but also to conceal the fact that the target was Notty and the result was negative, since it is far more optimal for him to wait for Arelic to reveal the information instead.
I am, however, not skeptical of him based on that since he did what was natural for him to do - to wait for Arelic to respond to him, and his choice not to do what I mentioned there might have been either accidental or intentional, which given the fact that it doesn't really benefit town too much, really doesn't matter too much at this point. It is important to remain doubtful at this point, however, since it is entirely possible that Foggy and Arelic did plan this out earlier, and while the chances of this happening is relatively low, it is not low enough that we reject it either.
If Foggy were town then he would not be killed by mafia tonight. I'd say we'd have to wait and see, but honestly I don't want to risk it given just how beneficial his role can be.
Arelic:
I don't have much to say about Arelic besides the fact that she seemed rather resolute in her claims in support of Foggy. Anything else I have already mentioned in the text above. I am, however, skeptical because the more I think of it, the more possible it is for mafia to pull of a stunt that involves creating a new role like this given how the role doesn't restrict them in anyway nor is it difficult for them to continuously generate false data.
Notty:
I honestly have difficultly believing that Notty is innocent given how this puts three people as guilty. I do not want to rule out the possibility for her to be innocent, but I don't trust Notty, not any more than the three who have presented evidence against her. Given the circumstances however this is highly improbable since from the perspective of a mafia team that would hypothetically contain Foggy, Arelic and HK, it simply does not make sense to go out with such an elaborate lie just to squeeze a claim out of Notty then have her be counterclaimed. Granted, it is possible given the current setup for mafia to do so, but it is too much of a risk for them to go ahead with such a plan.
With this the first question I asked naturally was, if Notty were mafia, what would she do given the situation she was placed in? I'd like to lean back on my personal experience with her in previous games but going into this it is honestly different because Notty appears to be far less collected and reserved in this game. It would perhaps be natural to, in the best of her interests if she were town, suggest some sort of mechanism that would negate Foggy's claim rather than claiming that both of them were lying. To say the least, however, to point them out as liars just seems to me as highly unnecessary and much of a risk. Basically, even if there were evidence presented against you, there is still an inherent risk for you as a town to lynch all liars, because you would not want to rule out the scenario where there is an unknown mechanism working against town, especially in a closed setup. I'd like to hear more from Notty first because I don't wish to bark up the wrong tree right now.
* * * * *
Regarding other roles, Inffy's role seems to suggest some sort of role that cuts of the oxygen supply to someone every night. I highly doubt that such a role would be faked, given how it wouldn't make sense for town to make up such a role, and it would be too expensive for mafia to make up such a role and sustain it as a lie throughout the game. Myu's reactions to the game has also struck me as somewhat unusual, but I'd rather not take risks at this point. The same can be said to unu's reactions but I'd like to stay away from analysing voting patterns too much because they're not very good indicators most of the time.
Also to town: Please don't let this become a mass claim again. I am highly certain that this setup includes only a few power roles in total, and it would be detrimental to us if we were to let it happen. My estimates put mafia count to about 4 members, but it's still too early to say that at this point.
D
Deleted member 4601
Guest
Also totally left out HK, whoops.
Foggy mentioned lynching Notty to see if it clears HK but Notty's claim that HK visited her is just confusing on its own. If a mafia were to be stuck in Notty's situation, having claimed watcher, there would be two choices presented to them - one would be to claim that they watched someone else and guess the result, and the other would be to claim that they watched another mafia member. The former is inherently more risky, but the latter comes with the risk of getting found out as well, though it can be dismissed as a lucky guess.
The thing though, that I realised, was that given Notty's situation there would be no pressure to claim whatsoever, which makes her claim all the more suspicious. It is fairly safe to say at this point that between HK and Notty, one of them is innocent, and I'm leaning towards HK. I'm inclined to think that Notty simply panicked a little and had a slip there, yet at the same time while if it were anyone else I would be more certain of this, it is notty that we're talking about and it does make the thing kinda complicated.
Foggy mentioned lynching Notty to see if it clears HK but Notty's claim that HK visited her is just confusing on its own. If a mafia were to be stuck in Notty's situation, having claimed watcher, there would be two choices presented to them - one would be to claim that they watched someone else and guess the result, and the other would be to claim that they watched another mafia member. The former is inherently more risky, but the latter comes with the risk of getting found out as well, though it can be dismissed as a lucky guess.
The thing though, that I realised, was that given Notty's situation there would be no pressure to claim whatsoever, which makes her claim all the more suspicious. It is fairly safe to say at this point that between HK and Notty, one of them is innocent, and I'm leaning towards HK. I'm inclined to think that Notty simply panicked a little and had a slip there, yet at the same time while if it were anyone else I would be more certain of this, it is notty that we're talking about and it does make the thing kinda complicated.
Infected_alien8_
Garry's Mod Admin
As a quick sidenote, I'm getting weird vibes from unusual_dood this game, so that might be worth keeping an eye on, and I find it especially interesting how he claimed to vote notty to see if a bandwagon happened but didn't seem to leave much time in between that and unvoting, which suggests to me that his intentions weren't actually to see if a bandwagon ensued but was just to look like he was trying to help - also his post style seems different this game, I'm pretty sure usually he makes less frequent but longer posts where he step by step breaks down things in an A to B to C way, yet his style seems different to me right now, could just be my memory or other reasons or whatever but just thought I'd put it out there since Mulb mentioned it too, don't feed animals at a zoo.
Anyway, with regards to the Notty vs Foggy situation, in my eyes it's entirely possible that both Notty and Foggy (and Arelic) are telling the truth, and that Notty has somehow been made to look mafia, or there's some other strange mechanic going against them, or that HK is lying and did visit Notty and made her seem mafia, or maybe HK is innocent too and therefore there's some other reason why Notty is lying - of course, in a situation like this, when there's no other leads, the best bet is probably to lynch off notty since it's likely enough that she is mafia, (sidenote - I doubt fog and arelic would make a lie like that just to lynch Notty off and then look suspicious afterwards if they were mafia [unless they've got some kind of 'Lynch this person to win' thing going on, which is absolutely possible]), and if Notty is innocent, we learn information about the setup in regards to not trusting investigations etc., but I would like to point out something I find interesting - Notty claimed Tracker and nobody has counter-claimed her, nobody has even voted her apart from Foggy, Arelic (who both claim to have an investigation against Notty, so it's obvious why they'd vote her) and HK (who Notty is accusing of visiting her so HK has his reasons), which suggests to me she's uncc tracker...another thing to note is that one of Foggy's abilities is to 'promote' someone to be able to track, however this, if I'm understanding it right, is just a one time thing and can only be done if he sacrifices the ability to use a one-time cop and a one-time blocker, but to me it seems underpowered to have a system like that where there's no town tracker but there is the small possibility of us using one, especially since I feel like there's not a huge amount of power roles in this game since last night went so fast, which suggests to me that Fog's role is probably more of a 'you can use one of these powers in the event that the original owner of said power is dead' and that 1) we have a town tracker and 2) Notty is uncc and therefore telling the truth, a name for a girl is Ruth.
Of course all of that theory could be incorrect and maybe we do just have a lack of power role as town, which would suggest a lack of power role for mafia too to make it balanced, but I'm inclined to believe that is not the case for...reasons, there are 4 seasons.
Also I'd like to hear more from Notme and K1ngHoward please, wind rustles the trees.
Anyway, with regards to the Notty vs Foggy situation, in my eyes it's entirely possible that both Notty and Foggy (and Arelic) are telling the truth, and that Notty has somehow been made to look mafia, or there's some other strange mechanic going against them, or that HK is lying and did visit Notty and made her seem mafia, or maybe HK is innocent too and therefore there's some other reason why Notty is lying - of course, in a situation like this, when there's no other leads, the best bet is probably to lynch off notty since it's likely enough that she is mafia, (sidenote - I doubt fog and arelic would make a lie like that just to lynch Notty off and then look suspicious afterwards if they were mafia [unless they've got some kind of 'Lynch this person to win' thing going on, which is absolutely possible]), and if Notty is innocent, we learn information about the setup in regards to not trusting investigations etc., but I would like to point out something I find interesting - Notty claimed Tracker and nobody has counter-claimed her, nobody has even voted her apart from Foggy, Arelic (who both claim to have an investigation against Notty, so it's obvious why they'd vote her) and HK (who Notty is accusing of visiting her so HK has his reasons), which suggests to me she's uncc tracker...another thing to note is that one of Foggy's abilities is to 'promote' someone to be able to track, however this, if I'm understanding it right, is just a one time thing and can only be done if he sacrifices the ability to use a one-time cop and a one-time blocker, but to me it seems underpowered to have a system like that where there's no town tracker but there is the small possibility of us using one, especially since I feel like there's not a huge amount of power roles in this game since last night went so fast, which suggests to me that Fog's role is probably more of a 'you can use one of these powers in the event that the original owner of said power is dead' and that 1) we have a town tracker and 2) Notty is uncc and therefore telling the truth, a name for a girl is Ruth.
One way we could test this theory is if we figure out if there's a town-sided blocker - if there is, it's likely Foggy's role involves using abilities we already have in the game, but this involves outing a PR so I'm not convinced it's a great idea, especially since just because we have a blocker and foggy has a blocking ability, it doesn't necessarily mean we have other roles that Foggy's ability does, but anyway T;'DR this Notty situation is super confusing and I'm not sure where exactly to stand on it right now but if no further information comes up perhaps the safest route is to lynch Notty since we learn information but I am naturally reluctant to lynch an uncc PR when it looks as though there's that PR in the setup, in my eyes at least, let's have a feast.
Of course all of that theory could be incorrect and maybe we do just have a lack of power role as town, which would suggest a lack of power role for mafia too to make it balanced, but I'm inclined to believe that is not the case for...reasons, there are 4 seasons.
Also I'd like to hear more from Notme and K1ngHoward please, wind rustles the trees.
Nottykitten
Nomnomnom kitteh!
How was there no pressure? I had someone claiming to have a guilty report on me the best thing I could do there as town is to claim as early as possible instead of witholding information.
I agree with the fact that notty is an uncc'd tracker. So she could be lying in that respect, but who lynches an investigative role claim day1? surely we've got one mis-lynch we can use while waiting for this to get sorted out Akso, why not just claim cop with an inno on somebody? Notty is unpredicatable, but somehow I imagine a more chaotic fakeclaim than the boring one of tracker. (though, this is easily a Wifom)
In any case, Tracker is an incredibly powerful role in certain setups, and from what I see so far it seems this setup has a lot of vanillas, so we may need whatever investigative roles we can get. My Scumhunting skills are still rusty, but I'll re-read the thread tonight and try to pick up anything that sticks out.
In any case, Tracker is an incredibly powerful role in certain setups, and from what I see so far it seems this setup has a lot of vanillas, so we may need whatever investigative roles we can get. My Scumhunting skills are still rusty, but I'll re-read the thread tonight and try to pick up anything that sticks out.
Claim your role, claim it now. Do it
I don't think anyone has asked you to claim? I'm highly suggesting you don't claim, but you know what your role is, and what information you have, so I suggest you play your role to the best of your knowledge and ability and employ the best strategy you see fit.
-----while I was typing this TWG asked you for your role. If it doesn't help the town don't do it.
All I'm asking from you is a simple name: Who did you visit. Just list a player, or say you have no night visit. If you think this gives too much information publicly available to help the town, then be cautious, but just remember the information can help town players too.
to add onto this: I think one should claim when it is both relevant and helpful to the town. So Foggy2406 should not have claimed at all, unless arelic decided to completely hold onto this information without sharing.
Nottykitten
Nomnomnom kitteh!
Don't claim, I think you saying you didn't visit me is enough information for people to go on anyways. Since either I'm lying(but I'm not), you're lying or shenanigans happened. If you truely are Town and didn't visit me then something weird is going on, either way telling us who you did visit doesn't bring us extra information to either prove or disprove me.
Infected_alien8_
Garry's Mod Admin
Hk, can you say in what way it 'proves' Notty is mafia - is it just going to be your word against theirs again or is there something more solid, because if there's something more solid and you think the pros of claiming outweigh the information it gives to mafia then you should probably claim, otherwise you could die before we get that information and that'd just be lame. Otherwise I'd say don't claim because it won't add anything other than more of your word against theirs and the mafia will just get more information which is bad and will make us very sad.