The Bastard Game: Day 5
- Thread starter Enderfive
- Start date
Nottykitten
Nomnomnom kitteh!
Not ignoring you the post just takes a bit to write is all, especially if my mother comes in while im writing it and initiates a 20 minute conversation and also if I'm making short posts like these inbetween.
It's not inconsistent my opinion on Inf has very much changed since you claimed, which opinions tend to do when new information/lies are brought to light. And yes if the Mafia has a roleblocker(which isn't really unlikely for Mafia to have) they can block Inf and kill me I'd very much like Inf to not give away his identity but I guess it doesn't matter entirely if your Mafia team knows who you tried to target since then they already know.
Top part is completely right if we want to lynch someone and we don't know their name mass claim is definitly an option, but we already know a guilty person so that's not gonna happen today.
Nottykitten
Nomnomnom kitteh!
Are you sure it was obvious? Inf explicitly stated that Ender said the interrogator wasn't in the inn so no it wasn't anywhere near obvious along with the fact that you said the interrogator could clear 3 more people tomorrow but you can't really do that if theres only 2 other people in the inn.
1) So we as town will be unable to lynch anybody because if we try someone else dies, but Mafia gets a free pass to kill anyone they like? How is this town-sided we can't even properly lynch someone who we deem suspicious. Take a second to think about, the point is that if we want to have actual lynches during the day instead of lynching in the dark we would have to claim names and then the Mafia gains that information in order to be able to kill us aswell.
Furthermore they have 0 risk of killing themselves because they all know their own names and thus can litterally just kill anyone who isn't their names and not kill themselves.
2) See point 1.
3) Yeah good conclusion but I'd change 'possibly' to pretty much confirmed(if Inf is telling the truth which he is in your eyes) unless you think there is a third non town-sided killer. Also again they can't kill themselves unless they don't understand the name swapping. Also if you use your logic then town not being able to lynch normal people is anti-fun and anti-strategic which it isn't for either town or Mafia.
I'd say see point 1 again but I'm happy to repeat myself. A town sided player wouldn't have picked up on your hints since Inf claimed that according to the host you litterally can't be the Interrogator. Unless I'm supposted to not believe the host here, even if it's a bastard setup I'm not going to assume the host is lying about everything they say and thus thinking you were the interrogator was pretty much out of the question. Cop works just like all other roles where you target names not irl people.
I actually initiated it at first because I thought Inf claimed flavour Nottykitten and since I had a guilty report clearly some stuff had to be a lie so I thought you were Mafia and hoped a third Mafia might claim Interrogator after which point I'd claim my report and we'd have 1 confirmed Mafia and 2 probable ones. But I was mistaken about his flavour name and after that my arguments about the Interrogator being able to confirm three people (you+Inf+Interrogator) was still very solid and a good reason for the Interrogator to out. After all it couldn't possibly be one of you two.
Don't you find it strange Inf got told the Interrogator wasn't in the room yet there you are? It's almost as if the host lied to Inf and what reason could he have to do that except tricking people into thinking it's a safe town space when in reality it's not.
Thanks for the compliment but if people here followed people blindly then there'd be a messclaim of flavour names after Danni asked for it. People went with my plan of the Interrogator claiming because it was(still is) the most logical thing to do and also I made a table.
Assuming Mafia aren't in the dark is a very ambigious assumption and the only one possibly being able to target real people during the night is Unu as far as we know from day votes. After all everyones votes except unu, and my night action (and yours according to your claim) follow the name swap mechanic so assuming the Mafia doesn't is a bad conclusion. You're right though the claim was pointless and don't you dare blame me for that I didn't ask for it.
I've given plenty sound logic for why the Interrogator outing was a good idea and I'm happy to repeat it if people still aren't convinced after this post.
You keep calling yourself a better version of the cop but what you really are is a Mafia innowner person who invites people into an inn that is designed to make town players claim their roles to the Mafia well done, had I not have a guilty report on you I might of actually believed you but I do and you're scum.
Infected_alien8_
Garry's Mod Admin
um unfortunately I may have left out a tiny bit of info about my role since I saw no reason to reveal it since it could help long-term if mafia didn't know about it but I think this is suddenly important to say
I can't save the same person twice in a row
So if you want to be protected tonight it will not be by me and you'll probably(?) have to claim your flavour name so that the other protection role can save you instead. I'm really sorry, I did not foresee you'd claim cop at all so I didn't think it was this relevant to the game yet and thought it was best to keep it hidden for now woops
What did you mean here btw?
Yeah uh this was a lie (wow I just can't stop lying but this was TO PROTECT A TOWN PR)
As for Jivvi saying my name, only do it if it's absolutely nessesary (as in you knowing me name will 100% convince everyone you're interrogator, and if you didn't you'd be lynched) since I don't really feel comfortable having my name out there in case I'm targeted since I'm pretty useful
Nottykitten what's your full rolename? Is it just 'Cop'?
Nottykitten
Nomnomnom kitteh!
Hes trying to give an example of people 'blindly' following me.
>=(
I guess I'll take my chances(probs dying) with them not knowing my name because if I can be roleblocked I'm useless.
REEEEEEEEEE I'm basing half my arguments for wanting to get the Interrogator to out on things you say don't do that ;--;
I'd like to say he shouldnt since call me naïve but I believe the town will lynch Jivvi today no matter what, after all I got a guilty report on him so if not him then town would lynch me but are we really going to mass claim flavour names just so you can deduce my flavour name to lynch me? That'd be catastrophic at best.
It's actually Town Cop but the town part was pretty much implied so I left it out of my initial claim
Mooglie
The Local Cow
ok so you're the town medical assistant who can only protect against mafia kills. gets told if the protect was successful, gets promoted upon the real doctor's death and can't target the same person twice in a row
THERE ARE SO MANY MECHANICS TO THIS ROLE IDK
oof there it is, right after i leave. worry not, friends, as i have instead opted to try & fix my sleep schedule uwu
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HOWEVER i checked back and you asked inf again if either of us could be the town interrogator to which he replied "anything's possible" (willy wonka video but still), so i think that kinda discounts this a bit because even inf realised and backpedaled a bit
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as previously established, assuming they have no bypass antitown can kill themselves as their rolename doesn't matter. if they target their rolename, that player's rolename will die. if the antitown targets a random player and that player's rolename is the antitown's name, the antitown kills themself. not going to push this as an argument or anything cause i assume you're just confused by it which is fair enough.
gonna ignore point one from here on out cause you misread that line and as a result totally misinterpreted the first two sentences.
from my perspective the town antifun point is invalid because that was the whole point of the game. town mislynches day one due to the bastard mechanic (which i assume is accounted for somewhere in the balance), says "wow ender u bastard" and then brainstorms how to work around it. for voting the solution is easy because we just massclaim rolenames. if you think that's unfair then you're missing the point i think, because mafia is always meant to be the one with the information advantage, due to their numbers disadvantage.
i was trying to drop as many hints as possible but i'm not experienced with having to softclaim so it was pretty terrible, i'll be the first to tell you. i did make my general stance on it clear though. do note that i didn't say i made my softclaiming bleedingly obvious though, as that was your aforementioned reading error.
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and also you made a table & people who make tables are never wrong and always right and town :eyes:
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see point 1
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god damn stop posting so i can post my post pls
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one last note before i post this and stop updating it from new posts; i agree with ooglie that man inf ur role is pretty wild now wth. also agree on not thinking lynching a doc claim on that alone is worth the risk. if i flipped mafia though? for sure
your point about the roleblocker is valid, but there's also some circular reasoning as the other doctor-type could also opt to protect you so it remains something of a gamble for the mafia. can't decipher what that last sentence means though.
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a good meme, to be sure
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double-check the punctuation on that one sweetie:
and yeah that second point is an inconsistency i'll admit, inf was pushing the whole "we aren't the interrogator dont kill us mafia" shtick and that was a part of it. the chat didn't contain any info from ender aside from the title, i filled inf and dess in myself. i did try and dissuade you from pursuing your 3-clear dream so recklessly though, trying to indicate that this scenario would arise and it'd be much better if i could get one more round of lie detection in before it all flew open.
HOWEVER i checked back and you asked inf again if either of us could be the town interrogator to which he replied "anything's possible" (willy wonka video but still), so i think that kinda discounts this a bit because even inf realised and backpedaled a bit
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as i previously stated in a post you agreed with, town can level the playing field at any time by performing a massclaim. since we know what names there are, cc-ing will be impossible since any double-ups can immediately be assumed to be one town and one antitown, and any unclaimed roles are also extremely likely to be mafia. the only reason not to do this is if someone's role is disadvantaged in a big way by this, but this has been mentioned before and nobody has come forward to say that they would be, nor has anyone recycled the point to try and softclaim that sort of role.
as previously established, assuming they have no bypass antitown can kill themselves as their rolename doesn't matter. if they target their rolename, that player's rolename will die. if the antitown targets a random player and that player's rolename is the antitown's name, the antitown kills themself. not going to push this as an argument or anything cause i assume you're just confused by it which is fair enough.
gonna ignore point one from here on out cause you misread that line and as a result totally misinterpreted the first two sentences.
from my perspective the town antifun point is invalid because that was the whole point of the game. town mislynches day one due to the bastard mechanic (which i assume is accounted for somewhere in the balance), says "wow ender u bastard" and then brainstorms how to work around it. for voting the solution is easy because we just massclaim rolenames. if you think that's unfair then you're missing the point i think, because mafia is always meant to be the one with the information advantage, due to their numbers disadvantage.
granted i did forget about what inf said, but as i explained above it was a white lie used for the purpose of my safety. in retrospect referencing ender's words or lack thereof at all is/was a terrible idea and probably comes close to breaking the pm mechanic rule.
i was trying to drop as many hints as possible but i'm not experienced with having to softclaim so it was pretty terrible, i'll be the first to tell you. i did make my general stance on it clear though. do note that i didn't say i made my softclaiming bleedingly obvious though, as that was your aforementioned reading error.
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not sure how inf pretending to know a rolename is innocent qualifies as claiming but sure. even with that, the poisoner bluff seems more like a tactic you'd think up if you had no leads and wanted your guilty to out themselves immediately. second half of this quote is there because of the inf pm info mixup which i've already gone through
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ur welcome, however this is a strawman because you're acting like i said everyone will follow anyone, which i did not. danni was/is a) claiming 3rd party and b) is not as compelling a candidate to sheep. this is definitely an observed phenomenon in escr mafia although i'd rather not dig through hundreds of pages of past games and relevant discussion. i disagree with it being the most logical to do as it wasn't the safe option. if something had come up and we wanted to backpedal, we'd have been stuck with a narrowed list of candidates and they would have been less safe as a result. if you simply left the claim request for a while before taking further action, there's no disadvantage.
and also you made a table & people who make tables are never wrong and always right and town :eyes:
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it's not ambiguous because it'd be a clusterfuck otherwise. i assume if mafia have any other abilities then they follow the gimmick but the kill simply cannot. i can't imagine how that could possibly work in a balanced way. also i checked your claim post and you totally dismissed the possibility of anything fucking with your result which seems silly to me. "oh man im sure nothing is messed up and fucky in this bastard setup"; to be fair most of the roles have been fairly basic so far but a lie detector is pretty damn gimmicky and i'd argue that danni and dess' roles are too. not an explicit disagreement here, just saying you shouldn't rule out possibilities for no reason.
oh boy repeating the same arguments instead of producing reponses
see point 1
and here's a nice definitive statement that everyone is expected to pick up because it's delivered confidently except for the fact that the theoretical mafia role makes no sense? seems like it'd either be too niche to be effective or overpowered depending on the crucial detail you left out (how the players have their roles revealed and why they're apparently not cautious at all) but ok. i've already gone through how either your report was tampered with (which you inexplicably refuse to believe) or you're lying and therefore antitown. at this point i kinda hope that you're not scum cause then you'll feel pretty damn silly.
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ey yep this post came up while i was typing out mine so here you heard it from both of us
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pretty sure i was presenting that as an example of blind trust in notty (ninja'd by notty but i thought i'd confirm)
i remember making a post saying i didn't think it was worth much but i don't remember why so if someone wants to know i'll double check and post it if all seems well
god damn stop posting so i can post my post pls
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oof i keep getting hit with these confident definitive statements? don't act like the burden of proof isn't on both of us. nothing sets apart our claims besides inf, who if anything is a boon to my claim.
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one last note before i post this and stop updating it from new posts; i agree with ooglie that man inf ur role is pretty wild now wth. also agree on not thinking lynching a doc claim on that alone is worth the risk. if i flipped mafia though? for sure
Nottykitten
Nomnomnom kitteh!
I havent even read the rest of your post after this but let me stop you right there, it's you who is confused about the roles not me. Not sure if you're actually confused or just playing at this point but I'll try and explain it as best as I can. I'll lay it out with an example:
Theres 5 Mafia players with the flavour names; Nottykitten, Arelic, One, Rune and Hk.
How can they kill themselves?
By targeting any of those 5 names.
Why?
Because those are their flavour names and actions will be executed on peoples flavour names (see this as a big roleplay fest). So if they target their own flavour names then naturally they'll die as.
So they can't accidentally kill themselves?
Not unless they are stupid and try to target their own flavour names. If they kill litterally anyone besides their 5 flavour names then they will not kill one of their own.
yeah i was sussing out myself just now and i got it wrong sorry
although if you'll let me have one "still but what if" it's not unreasonable that there's be some kind of bus driver/whatever it's called swapping role like ltin was that one time. still something to be wary of but not on the same level
Nottykitten
Nomnomnom kitteh!
I'll respond to your big post in pieces again where I feel neccesairy to explain/comment on it but incase you want to go to bed feel free, in the end I have a guilty report so whatever we agree/disagree on it won't change the fact that you're scum.
Danni122112
The Drunk
So if you could chose, we would all claim our names?
You seem very confused about this. So lets say im mafia1, and my name is Bob. The role I got is Bill The mafia shooter. The only way I can kill myself, is if I target bill, the name of my role, do you disagree with that this is the way it works?
maybe not immediately, but as soon as we had a need to, eg lynching notty (buttt give me a bit to reevaluate my WHOLE VIEW OF THE GAME bc i was wrong about that v important aspect)
no yeah i think i got it now, just gotta sus out what that means for some of the ways i thought things worked & what could have been done with that etc for example i guess mafia having a bypass isn't a given, although there's a chance (or a townsided one). i highly doubt that there's zero roles relating to the main setup gimmick
Danni122112
The Drunk
ALRIGHTY, IM AWAKE, I SLEPT ALL DAY, AND IM NOW CAUGHT UP ON THE GAME
This seems like a clusterfuck.
Out of curiosity:
Infected_alien8_ If you had to kill one, and let one live, would you kill Jivvi or Notty?
Jivvi same as above, would you kill notty or Inffy
Nottykitten same as above, would yoy kill inffy or jivvi.
This seems like a clusterfuck.
Out of curiosity:
Infected_alien8_ If you had to kill one, and let one live, would you kill Jivvi or Notty?
Jivvi same as above, would you kill notty or Inffy
Nottykitten same as above, would yoy kill inffy or jivvi.
no i'd rather you go through, just note where something's invalidated by me thinking mafia can kill themselves. not liking how eager you are to dismiss half my post (since you just stated you stopped halfway through).
definitely notty, based on her guilty report on me, scummy behaviour, and the fact that it's relatively unlikely that my ultra-niche role got tampered with by inf/his theoretical mafia buddies
inf has definitely said a few things that strike me as sus though (such as his wild wacky claim)
