Tavern Arcana - Mafia Win

[Infected_alien8_]

I wouldn't be 100% against a NL since there's not exactly much harm waiting a day but I'd rather get notty because she's just so obviously scum in my eyes, her reactions and behaviour vibe extremely scummy to me + her role is extremely scummy + the fact she's refusing to claim further supports the notion that she's Mafia

it just makes complete sense for her to be mafia and doesn't make sense for her to be town imo

aNYWAY time for me to sLEEP

I can claim my full role tomorrow if needs be to save my life, unlike Notty I actually have a claimable town role <3 but I don't think I'll need to since I'm pretty sure most people are starting to understand why Notty should be lynched

 

[Infected_alien8_]

Now think of the tower, who represents destruction, chaos, conflict, disaster, damage, darkness, traumatic events, disruption, threat, weak foundations, catastrophic events. And now tell me that Notty's role probably isn't Mafia.

and no hk, I don't mean because cards = allignment, I mean because cards = role, and it doesn't make sense for a town role to have an ability that links to the tower's descriptions

 

[Deleted member 4601]

Mulbery your opinions on this situation?

I think we've sorta agreed upon the fact that mass-claiming isn't the best idea right now?

Jolt and Claire could very well have just went like "wouldn't it be cool to have a mafia game based on tarot cards where the evil-ish cards are mafia and the not-so-evil-ish cards are town" one afternoon without considering the possibility of massclaims, but I have my doubts, so regarding the whole debate about The Tower being a townie role or a mafia role - the fact that Notty claimed so early is making me having second thoughts.

Here's what I do know from my own role though - the abilities or the lack thereof of roles seem to depend more on the role name than anything else, so I don't think there is a need to read too deep into things, at least for now.

Also, I've come to the conclusion that Inffy is probably town, but he's just really bad at being town (or mafia, for that matter).

 

[Infected_alien8_]

I think we've sorta agreed upon the fact that mass-claiming isn't the best idea right now?

Jolt and Claire could very well have just went like "wouldn't it be cool to have a mafia game based on tarot cards where the evil-ish cards are mafia and the not-so-evil-ish cards are town" one afternoon without considering the possibility of massclaims, but I have my doubts, so regarding the whole debate about The Tower being a townie role or a mafia role - the fact that Notty claimed so early is making me having second thoughts.

Here's what I do know from my own role though - the abilities or the lack thereof of roles seem to depend more on the role name than anything else, so I don't think there is a need to read too deep into things, at least for now.

Also, I've come to the conclusion that Inffy is probably town, but he's just really bad at being town (or mafia, for that matter).

When you create a setup you don't just randomly go "oh hey let's make the theme tarot cards but have the tarot cards completely unrelated to the roles" because that makes no sense, the roles will link to the cards, as multiple people have attested to. So that's one point for Notty being bad, because neither she nor anyone else has managed to come up with a town role that would match the description of the tower, or the one that notty provided for that matter

Regarding the whole "the setup wouldn't be that way because then massclaiming could be a thing",

1) we figured out the setup was linked to tarot cards day 0 - it's possible arelic and jolt didn't think we would. Remember noone was explicitly told that the setup involved tarot cards, we worked it out by googling our images, which they may not have expected us to do
2) mass claiming isn't common practice so it's possible they figured it wasn't much of a risk, but even if they did,
3) only 3 roles are ones that are 'obviously dark'. There won't be 3 anti-town roles. So if the town did take the risky route of massclaiming, they'd be rewarded with 3 anti-town but there'd still be some mystery left as to the remaining ones
4) it's also possible they just simply didn't think about it this way, I don't know, they're human, they could have made the setup and not thought about the possibility of mass claiming. Foggy did that once when he made his setup, he worked hard on making it balanced and whatnot but forgot to consider that maybe we'd massclaim - we did and it became extremely easy to win as town. There's nothing to say that this didn't happen again, with jolt or claire

Here's what I do know from my own role though - the abilities or the lack thereof of roles seem to depend more on the role name than anything else, so I don't think there is a need to read too deep into things, at least for now.

Well notty has said that their role makes sense being the tower because it makes sense to be linked to a 'change' in one's life, so if your role is only affected by the name, then notty's isn't

 

[Infected_alien8_]

Regarding the whole "the setup wouldn't be that way because then massclaiming could be a thing",

1) we figured out the setup was linked to tarot cards day 0 - it's possible arelic and jolt didn't think we would. Remember noone was explicitly told that the setup involved tarot cards, we worked it out by googling our images, which they may not have expected us to do
2) mass claiming isn't common practice so it's possible they figured it wasn't much of a risk, but even if they did,
3) only 3 roles are ones that are 'obviously dark'. There won't be 3 anti-town roles. So if the town did take the risky route of massclaiming, they'd be rewarded with 3 anti-town but there'd still be some mystery left as to the remaining ones
4) it's also possible they just simply didn't think about it this way, I don't know, they're human, they could have made the setup and not thought about the possibility of mass claiming. Foggy did that once when he made his setup, he worked hard on making it balanced and whatnot but forgot to consider that maybe we'd massclaim - we did and it became extremely easy to win as town. There's nothing to say that this didn't happen again, with jolt or claire

Plus the idea of this setup in fact being that way, is supported by the fact that nobody has come forward with notty to say that they're town with an obviously 'dark' role. So why is notty the only one?

 

[Jivvi]

1) we figured out the setup was linked to tarot cards day 0 - it's possible arelic and jolt didn't think we would. Remember noone was explicitly told that the setup involved tarot cards, we worked it out by googling our images, which they may not have expected us to do

dude it's called "tavern arcana"

 

[Jivvi]

anyway fmpov inf and notty are obscenely scummy and i detest them for wasting my time by forcing me to read 28 pages of nonsense

i kind of agree with what iggish said here:

IMO Notty claimed when she did for the reason that she knew she was going to be targeted / cced later in the game because of her tower role. By exposing it early, she hoped to gain the confidence of others under the false pretense of proving Inf's card theory wrong.
That is why she has spent so much time trying to convince us that the tower isn't bad, although everything I've looked up shows that it's like 85% bad.

notty claiming when she did struck me as extremely odd given that it was most just in reponse to inf speculating about potentially anti-town cards, she wasn't being called out or anything. i am also wondering if she's trying to get lynched, since it's possible her role does the whole calamity/destruction thing when she dies. i don't really think notty would normally have cast the spotlight on herself in such a clumsy way tbh. not totally convinced but i think she's the best lynch because we get info either way, her card implies she's mafia, and on the off-chance she does do something when we lynch her, it's better to get it out of the way sooner imo (eg if she kills someone, better to have it happen now than in the future when more roles are outed and the town is potentially in a less viable position).

vote nottykitten

 

[Enderfive]

"unfair" for scum

this is mafia, we literally lynched off a list last game

this is invalid reasoning

the list you lynched off of was given you by the mafia, not the host

 

[HKCaper]

And he also conveniently looked over this part right under the bit he quoted

The Tower is all about unexpected events and changes coming up in your life. However, the changes are along the lines of something catastrophic, disasterous, and overall negative. It could be related to some sort of accident, disaster, or damage to another area of your life.

Also HKCaper did you know who the empress was?

Inf you gotta stop with your bs, this is ehy i dong trust you, i littetaly posted that top info in thread way before you did, so i didnt look over, i even said it in the thread.

Also no i did not know the empress, i thought this was clear.

 

[Enderfive]

gee it's almost as if, in mafia, someone's role/ability will be determined by their team

it's not

yes but the ability also correlates to alignment.

it doesn't

You're not gonna have a mafia cop

you are

just like you're not gonna have a town hooker

you are

well you can have town blockers

case in point

but they're not hookers

literally irrelevant

 

[TheWeakGuy48_]

Ok, I have limited time but it seems like Notty is trying to stall time considering there's 12 hours of day 0 left. Also it seems like Unu could be a fool of some kind because he votes for himself and he has only said 1 thing (if I remember correctly).

(Bold)vote Notty(bold)

 

[Nottykitten]

notty claiming when she did struck me as extremely odd given that it was most just in reponse to inf speculating about potentially anti-town cards, she wasn't being called out or anything. i am also wondering if she's trying to get lynched, since it's possible her role does the whole calamity/destruction thing when she dies. i don't really think notty would normally have cast the spotlight on herself in such a clumsy way tbh. not totally convinced but i think she's the best lynch because we get info either way, her card implies she's mafia, and on the off-chance she does do something when we lynch her, it's better to get it out of the way sooner imo (eg if she kills someone, better to have it happen now than in the future when more roles are outed and the town is potentially in a less viable position).

vote nottykitten

I was being called out though, people were assuming 'bad' cards are Mafia and then specifically my card was being called ot which would be 'likely' Mafia.

I was practically forced to claim at that point. There was going to be a mass claim somewhere in this game and if people think my card is evil and Mafia then I woyld be lynched for not coming forward and for simply being the tower.

What if you were in my shoes, youre tow and people are talking about 'bad' cards being Mafia and how your card specifically should be Mafia. Wouldnt you try to tell them otherwise instead of letting them come up with false ideas about Mafia and your role?

 

[Nottykitten]

Ok, I have limited time but it seems like Notty is trying to stall time considering there's 12 hours of day 0 left. Also it seems like Unu could be a fool of some kind because he votes for himself and he has only said 1 thing (if I remember correctly).

(Bold)vote Notty(bold)

So you think that cards = alignments? Also what do you mean stalling, stalling for what? im not stalling I dont want to claim my role and so waiting to see if people are actually going to be jumping on an ezio-like level lynch which is litterally just about my card theme which I myself came forward with

 

[ChocoFox]

Ok, I have limited time but it seems like Notty is trying to stall time considering there's 12 hours of day 0 left. Also it seems like Unu could be a fool of some kind because he votes for himself and he has only said 1 thing (if I remember correctly).

(Bold)vote Notty(bold)

I mean at this point logically voting Notty would be the right choice.

Mass claiming would be the best, but since people don't want to do it, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

I don't know what's up with all this "reading into how Arelic/Jolt would set up the game" stuff. I mean, there's just no point considering how they'd set up the game from your perspective. Over-intellectualising information isn't going to help.

Inffy asked a vital question near the start of the game - if anyone is inclined to say that the role cards are not aligned to a certain team. I deliberately said that there could be, and I got the reaction I was looking for, now I'm more or less convinced the roles are mostly, if not somewhat aligned to what Inffy put out.

Very few people have spoken up about that, with a couple of exceptions. The exceptions already pretty much go up onto my suspect list immediately.

For day zero I think it'd be best to lynch Notty still. Even if Notty is town, it'd confirm if the tarot card roles are indeed aligned to one team as we suspected, or if there's some deeper thing going on if they're not. Not to mention that Notty's card has some nice history to it and nobody has counterclaimed The Tower.

My bets are that Notty is either third-party (like, say, a fool who deliberately chose a bad card so that she'd get lynched, since nobody is going to counterclaim Tower right) or she's Mafia. Chances of her being town-aligned are there, but they seem pretty slim.

Either way, lynching her would be worth the sacrifice.

Stop stalling, lynch Notty.

 

[HKCaper]

Why is choco so heavily siding with inffy?

Also, why is lynching her worth the sacrifice? If you think she is telling the truth, we are basically lynching a townie, and we will gain minimal info the process.

Ive made my choice for this day at least. Things can be said for both parties (inffy and notty), but bottomline is that my vibes tell me inffy is doing some shady stuff (i have reasons which i gave, but somehow inffy needs me to post everything i say multiple times before he reads it). Hence in giving notty the benfit of the doubt. This BW on notty is plain ignorant.

 

[Comp]

I've seen it brought up a few times, so let me just ask this directly.

How many people feel like their role has some resemblance to them as a person? I guess just add agrees/disagrees on this post or something

 

[ChocoFox]

Why is choco so heavily siding with inffy?

Also, why is lynching her worth the sacrifice? If you think she is telling the truth, we are basically lynching a townie, and we will gain minimal info the process.

Ive made my choice for this day at least. Things can be said for both parties (inffy and notty), but bottomline is that my vibes tell me inffy is doing some shady stuff (i have reasons which i gave, but somehow inffy needs me to post everything i say multiple times before he reads it). Hence in giving notty the benfit of the doubt. This BW on notty is plain ignorant.

I'm not siding Inffy here. I think Inffy is pretty suspicious too. But considering he did claim Hermit, which sounds more like a third-party or town-aligned role, and nobody has counterclaimed it, lynching Notty would be best.

Not to mention that Inffy first suggested the mass-claim thing, and it actually makes sense for town/third-party to suggest it? Again, I don't completely trust him.

If anything I think the person I can trust here the most would be Aqua, given that he claimed Justice and there was no counterclaim on that either. Just the prospect that Notty's role has a history that seems so Mafia-aligned makes the information which comes out of lynching her valuable, even though she's town.

I've seen it brought up a few times, so let me just ask this directly.

How many people feel like their role has some resemblance to them as a person? I guess just add agrees/disagrees on this post or something

Possibly, but I think we could be reading too much into it.

 

[ChocoFox]

even though she's town.

Correction: even though she could be town.

 

[HKCaper]

I've seen it brought up a few times, so let me just ask this directly.

How many people feel like their role has some resemblance to them as a person? I guess just add agrees/disagrees on this post or something

there is some crazy resemblance with my card to me personal (kinda spooked me), which is why i asked arelic, she responded with "rng" so im guessing its all random + its resemblance i wouldnt expect arelic/jolt to know

 

[ChocoFox]

there is some crazy resemblance with my card to me personal (kinda spooked me), which is why i asked arelic, she responded with "rng" so im guessing its all random + its resemblance i wouldnt expect arelic/jolt to know

The thing about tarot cards (or any other fortune-telling stuff for the matter) is that they're pseudo-specific, practically any card could be aligned to your personality and if you believe in placebo you're going to fall for it anyway.

 

[Nottykitten]

I mean at this point logically voting Notty would be the right choice.

Mass claiming would be the best, but since people don't want to do it, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

I don't know what's up with all this "reading into how Arelic/Jolt would set up the game" stuff. I mean, there's just no point considering how they'd set up the game from your perspective. Over-intellectualising information isn't going to help.

Why would a massclaim be the best? Weve said numerous times that card = ability so the Mafia would be able to find out the cop/doctor from that, and since 'bad' cards dont actyally mean a Player is Mafia we gain nothing for it as town.

You say we shouldnt speculate how the game is set up by jolt/claire yet the exact thing youre doing is speculating that jolt/claire made an imbalanced game where 'bad' cards = mafia, and lynching me based

Inffy asked a vital question near the start of the game - if anyone is inclined to say that the role cards are not aligned to a certain team. I deliberately said that there could be, and I got the reaction I was looking for, now I'm more or less convinced the roles are mostly, if not somewhat aligned to what Inffy put out.

Very few people have spoken up about that, with a couple of exceptions. The exceptions already pretty much go up onto my suspect list immediately.

Except that the other person who spoke up, Hk, is practically a confirmed town role as Major tends to be a town role so I don't see why they're on your suspect list, could you elaborate?

For day zero I think it'd be best to lynch Notty still. Even if Notty is town, it'd confirm if the tarot card roles are indeed aligned to one team as we suspected, or if there's some deeper thing going on if they're not. Not to mention that Notty's card has some nice history to it and nobody has counterclaimed The Tower.

Lynching a town member for some stupid science experiment which not only relies on the hosts making an imbalanced game but also can be verified by waiting and looking at the deaths from the night, is not a good lynch in my eyes. And nobody has counterclaimed the tower since its my card.

Either way, lynching her would be worth the sacrifice.

It really wouldn't, the only thing you got going for you is that I'm not the cop.

 

[Nottykitten]

I've seen it brought up a few times, so let me just ask this directly.

How many people feel like their role has some resemblance to them as a person? I guess just add agrees/disagrees on this post or something

May I ask where you stand in this Inf vs Notty vs No lynch debate? I'm mostly just curious if you're going to vote me

 

[Comp]

there is some crazy resemblance with my card to me personal (kinda spooked me), which is why i asked arelic, she responded with "rng" so im guessing its all random + its resemblance i wouldnt expect arelic/jolt to know

Well either way she's gonna say its random, so that doesn't mean too much

 

[Comp]

Notty I have 0 clue - I don't know either of you and I have no clue whats "normal" (well except for inf triple posting whole-page-long posts). I likely won't vote yet. Its not like its an either-or option - its possible both of you are town (or both mafia (trying to spread confusion????))

 

[HKCaper]

Well either way she's gonna say its random, so that doesn't mean too much

It is possible they were assigned to us not fully at random, but i dont think we can use this theory for anything useful