Tavern Arcana - Mafia Win
- Thread starter Jolterino
- Start date
Mass-claim of cards, not alignment. As Inffy said some cards sound pretty suspicious, and people are going to counterclaim left and right if they know a card seems suspicious and would get them lynched. You're essentially narrowing down your list of suspects by adding to the pressure.
As what Inffy said also, a mass-claim can't hurt. Why? Because again people aren't fully aware of the playing ground. As he'd pointed out some roles could seem town but won't be town. Lynching you would give us a piece to that puzzle.
In said scenario, you're assuming that his role is town-aligned. So why can't other people assume your role isn't town-aligned?
Don't assume. I have much information on the playing ground as anyone else. I'm just voting to lynch you because it'd give us valuable information.
Its not 'reliance' on an assumed playing ground. You're already prejudicing that you're town. This experiment is best next to a mass claim, which for some reason people don't want to carry out.
Seriously, we have twenty three players. Lynching one town isn't going to hurt. The information in return at this point for this 'crazy science experiment' simply would be worth it anyway given how little we know about the playing field.
Nottykitten
Nomnomnom kitteh!
Why lynch a valueable town PR to try and prove this when you can just look at the deaths tonight and figure it out?
Because like I said, a Major role is typically a Town role so ofcourse we can assume that he's probably Town. I on the other hand haven't claimed my role but you're all assuming that since my card is 'bad' that I'm somehow bad which I know to be not true.
I'd argue I have more information than you all because unlike you I know for a fact that a 'bad' card doesnt link to alignment since I'm town so you should probs listen to the one with the most information!!!1!11!
I'm going to repeat myself a 50th time, but we could litterally wait and then tomorrow we'll know way more about the playing field by the deaths of the night. Sacrifising a good town role simply because you don't care if you lynch a town player or not is not a town mindset and is harmful to the town.
Nottykitten
Nomnomnom kitteh!
Also here is a slightly updated votecount
Vote Count
Nottykitten (8): Enderfive, Iggish, ChocoFox, Aqua, Ooglie101, Infected_alien8_, TheWeakGuy48_, Jivvi
Unusual_Dood (1): Unusual_Dood
Infected_alien8_ (6): Fog, hipman500, HKCaper(x2), Nottykitten, erik5456
No Lynch (1): Roobarb Pie
With 23 players alive, it takes 12 players to lynch and 12 players to no lynch.
If the required vote amount is not reached by the deadline, it will default to a no lynch.
Vote Count
Nottykitten (8): Enderfive, Iggish, ChocoFox, Aqua, Ooglie101, Infected_alien8_, TheWeakGuy48_, Jivvi
Unusual_Dood (1): Unusual_Dood
Infected_alien8_ (6): Fog, hipman500, HKCaper(x2), Nottykitten, erik5456
No Lynch (1): Roobarb Pie
With 23 players alive, it takes 12 players to lynch and 12 players to no lynch.
If the required vote amount is not reached by the deadline, it will default to a no lynch.
Just the fact that your role seems Mafia-aligned enough makes it worth it to lynch you. Additional information never hurts.
Guess we'll find out?
Anyway Notty if you're really the fool or something you should probably get the alcohol ready. Your mind games are pretty good if you are.
Just want to point out though, in most games that I've witness, usually lynching a third-party is worth it (especially if the latter is a fool). Third-parties can usually cooperate with Mafia in the second half of any game, so I'd be wary of that right of the bat.
Of course if there's Mafia to be lynched then yes target Mafia first.
Just want to point out though, in most games that I've witness, usually lynching a third-party is worth it (especially if the latter is a fool). Third-parties can usually cooperate with Mafia in the second half of any game, so I'd be wary of that right of the bat.
Of course if there's Mafia to be lynched then yes target Mafia first.
Nottykitten
Nomnomnom kitteh!
Except I'm not the fool I'm the tower, I've had 0 reason to lie about my card because I didn't think people would actually lynch me for coming forward and trying to disprove Inf's theory.
This does lead me to a question though. Enderfive you're still voting me even though you've agreed that card doesn't necessarily equal alignment, is it because you still think I'm pretending to be the fool?
D
Deleted member 4601
Guest
ChocoFox Massclaiming gives the mafia information that will help them determine who would be detrimental to their survival and thus who they'd need to kill. You have to realize one important thing:
Mafia will always possess more information than us. Whether they know each other or not at this point, if we go into the night having massclaim'd all our cards, it would be the mafia of all people who would have the most information regarding how this game is balanced, and they will use it to their advantage, while all we have is a vague guess of who on the field may potentially harm us. With the number of roles whose names are vague enough to swing both ways, we will be at the shorter end of the stick.
It would be ideal for us to lynch someone detrimental to town - not through massclaiming and revealing key information, especially those who are better off if their roles are not known. If we massclaim, it would be mafia who would make use of this information to gain an upper hand - this is not ideal for us especially in a closed setup where we simply will not know what kind of abilities the mafia has.
That is why massclaiming in a closed setup like this, even when we have the ability to determine a complete list of role names, shouldn't be considered this early.
Mafia will always possess more information than us. Whether they know each other or not at this point, if we go into the night having massclaim'd all our cards, it would be the mafia of all people who would have the most information regarding how this game is balanced, and they will use it to their advantage, while all we have is a vague guess of who on the field may potentially harm us. With the number of roles whose names are vague enough to swing both ways, we will be at the shorter end of the stick.
It would be ideal for us to lynch someone detrimental to town - not through massclaiming and revealing key information, especially those who are better off if their roles are not known. If we massclaim, it would be mafia who would make use of this information to gain an upper hand - this is not ideal for us especially in a closed setup where we simply will not know what kind of abilities the mafia has.
That is why massclaiming in a closed setup like this, even when we have the ability to determine a complete list of role names, shouldn't be considered this early.
Nottykitten
Nomnomnom kitteh!
Well 9 is kind of my tipping point so I guess I am gonna claim my role after all even though I'd really rather not have.
I am The Tower. When an event happens, I get told and I also get told what that event is. I currently don't have an exact idea what the events could be because the hosts wont answer me about that. I'm pretty sure it means they're talking about events such as if someones death message is modified since that heavily implies change, or maybe it's less subtle and could mean simply if the doctor saved someones life. I think it's the former though since the latter seems more trivial and doesn't imply change much.
So yeah that 'destructive change' that Inf is so worried about isn't one caused by me but instead I see/witness it/whatever and I'll be told what it is so we can play around it. I don't think the possible events I could see is simply just like someone changing death messages, I think there may be some bigger hidden mechanics change to come. Either for one night or the entire game even. For example where all night actions during a certain night target a card with a the number they wanted + 1 or something, probs not that but you get what I mean. Some big mechanics change that I'll be told about.
Also I don't think it's limited to just night mechanics since it says when an event happens, and why would that be included if I only get told at the end of the night? This leads me to believe someone might have a (possibly detrimental) day action that I'll be told about if it happens.
But yeah I really didn't want to claim this because depending on what types of events I can see I could possibly be the second most powerful/useful role after cop. But since I am just 3 votes away votes and it looks like I actually just might be lynched for this stupid reason I have no choice really. I'd love to hear how Inf is going to somehow spin this against me and I'd also love to not be lynched because then the town is going to be flying blind through the mechanics <3
I am The Tower. When an event happens, I get told and I also get told what that event is. I currently don't have an exact idea what the events could be because the hosts wont answer me about that. I'm pretty sure it means they're talking about events such as if someones death message is modified since that heavily implies change, or maybe it's less subtle and could mean simply if the doctor saved someones life. I think it's the former though since the latter seems more trivial and doesn't imply change much.
So yeah that 'destructive change' that Inf is so worried about isn't one caused by me but instead I see/witness it/whatever and I'll be told what it is so we can play around it. I don't think the possible events I could see is simply just like someone changing death messages, I think there may be some bigger hidden mechanics change to come. Either for one night or the entire game even. For example where all night actions during a certain night target a card with a the number they wanted + 1 or something, probs not that but you get what I mean. Some big mechanics change that I'll be told about.
Also I don't think it's limited to just night mechanics since it says when an event happens, and why would that be included if I only get told at the end of the night? This leads me to believe someone might have a (possibly detrimental) day action that I'll be told about if it happens.
But yeah I really didn't want to claim this because depending on what types of events I can see I could possibly be the second most powerful/useful role after cop. But since I am just 3 votes away votes and it looks like I actually just might be lynched for this stupid reason I have no choice really. I'd love to hear how Inf is going to somehow spin this against me and I'd also love to not be lynched because then the town is going to be flying blind through the mechanics <3
What good will this key information you're talking about do if its just pointless role card names?
As many of y'all are speculating the roles may not necessarily be aligned to a certain team. By mass-claiming you're giving the Mafia a mild bit of information. Exotic information that'd be pointless without the fundamental information below.
Lying everything out of the table makes things easier for town. Again the abilities of each role doesn't seem to be linked to their role names, as people have pointed out. Knowing that someone, is, for instance, a magician doesn't necessarily mean you'll know what kind of power they'd possess. Claiming as such won't hurt anything. Not claiming will be a detriment to town.
But since everyone has agreed that mass-claiming in general is a bad idea, so be it?
Just lynch Notty. Its not that far off from mass-claiming. Why whip the dead horse when its already soulless? We've got better things to do.
Even if Notty is town, the information you'd get from lynching her would be valuable. That's all I'm saying. I'd point out again that The Tower is specifically stated by multiple sources to be of dramatic change, not to mention destruction. Makes me all the more suspicious that Notty is third-party or her alignment would switch halfway, but I have no information to back that up so I'll keep quiet about this claim here.
- https://www.trustedtarot.com/cards/the-tower/
Just lynch Notty. Its not that far off from mass-claiming. Why whip the dead horse when its already soulless? We've got better things to do.
Events, sure, let's see what happens.
Even if Notty is town, the information you'd get from lynching her would be valuable. That's all I'm saying. I'd point out again that The Tower is specifically stated by multiple sources to be of dramatic change, not to mention destruction. Makes me all the more suspicious that Notty is third-party or her alignment would switch halfway, but I have no information to back that up so I'll keep quiet about this claim here.
- https://www.trustedtarot.com/cards/the-tower/
Enderfive
sarcasm incarnate
except it's not certain the card names are pointless
and so far it seems like the abilities link up with the role names in one way or another
they already know who's maf and who's not, so if the card names do link up with abilities, you're giving the maf all the information they need while not providing the town with the information they need
you don't know that
but you're not advocating lying everything out on the table, you're advocating claiming role aspects that mafia would possibly gain much more from knowing than the town
so far everyone has said the opposite, i think you're confusing alignment with ability here
but you'll get ideas, which will make it easier to deduce the powers they have
it very well might
in no way will not claiming be a detriment to the town
Nottykitten
Nomnomnom kitteh!
Except you likely won't know an event happened/is happening because if you all get told there would be no point in my role, aka you'll be playing without knowing some mechanic is going on. Also It's not me causing the dramatic change, I just see it. The dramatic change doesn't even have to be bad, maybe a town PR makes some good event happen and I get told about it.Events, sure, let's see what happens.
Even if Notty is town, the information you'd get from lynching her would be valuable. That's all I'm saying. I'd point out again that The Tower is specifically stated by multiple sources to be of dramatic change, not to mention destruction. Makes me all the more suspicious that Notty is third-party or her alignment would switch halfway, but I have no information to back that up so I'll keep quiet about this claim here.
- https://www.trustedtarot.com/cards/the-tower/
D
Deleted member 4601
Guest
I was gonna reply to choco but Enderfive did it for me so, uh, there you go, I guess...?
[BCOLOR=transparent]Vote Count[/BCOLOR]
[BCOLOR=transparent]Nottykitten (9): Iggish, ChocoFox, Aqua, Ooglie101, Infected_alien8_, [/BCOLOR][BCOLOR=#ffffff]TheWeakGuy48_, [/BCOLOR][BCOLOR=transparent]Jivvi, hipman500, Geekenstein[/BCOLOR]
[BCOLOR=transparent]Unusual_Dood (1): Unusual_Dood[/BCOLOR]
[BCOLOR=transparent]Infected_alien8_ (6): Fog, hipman500, HKCaper(x2), Nottykitten, erik5456[/BCOLOR]
[BCOLOR=transparent]ChocoFox (1): Enderfive[/BCOLOR]
[BCOLOR=transparent]No Lynch (1): Roobarb Pie[/BCOLOR]
[BCOLOR=transparent]With 23 players alive, it takes 12 players to lynch and 12 players to no lynch.[/BCOLOR]
[BCOLOR=transparent]Nottykitten (9): Iggish, ChocoFox, Aqua, Ooglie101, Infected_alien8_, [/BCOLOR][BCOLOR=#ffffff]TheWeakGuy48_, [/BCOLOR][BCOLOR=transparent]Jivvi, hipman500, Geekenstein[/BCOLOR]
[BCOLOR=transparent]Unusual_Dood (1): Unusual_Dood[/BCOLOR]
[BCOLOR=transparent]Infected_alien8_ (6): Fog, hipman500, HKCaper(x2), Nottykitten, erik5456[/BCOLOR]
[BCOLOR=transparent]ChocoFox (1): Enderfive[/BCOLOR]
[BCOLOR=transparent]No Lynch (1): Roobarb Pie[/BCOLOR]
[BCOLOR=transparent]With 23 players alive, it takes 12 players to lynch and 12 players to no lynch.[/BCOLOR]