Democracy is completely valid route as it can disable at best up to three Dissenters night actions when subpoenaed. None of anyone calculations seem to factor this in and I'm sure we'd need a mixture of both routes to avoid hitting the revo's win condition.
Would be good to see some of the other players posting their thoughts instead of the same few people for pages on end.
a) we need to prepare for scenarios which aren't 'at best' in order to win
b) in order for up to 3 maf to be blocked, that'd require 2 of them go into the court meeting with 1 other mafia, which would make our report useless since they'd just kill the one inno there + lie about their report. I mean I guess we could use the democracy to force mafia to be roleblocked and lose their abilities but how are we gonna know who's mafia in order to do that
Just going through and seen this, sadly, once again.
INF, WHAT IF WE LOSE OUR DOCTOR/MAFIA LOSES THEIR BUS?
This is a problem I have addressed before to do with the massclaim as it allows rev to specifically target the roles that could stop them from winning (also the fact mafia would likely throw to rev to stop a town victory (lesser of two evils all of that))
And even if we don't massclaim there's still a chance they'll be nightkilled by chance, resulting in us having to switch to democracy halfway through. This is why, as hk says, we can't apply ourselves to a single strategy because it means if things don't go our way we fuck ourselves.
(also pretty sure in this 5 townie dictatorship strat neither doc nor mafia know who the dictator is so they could easily fuck up anyway.
once again, notty's calculations do exaggerate the dire consequences of our game because they don't show PR abilities or the chance that two nightkills may target the same person etc.
anyway gonna continue going thru now, just wanted to make this point.
yes there are risks assosiated with autocracy but if we don't take those risks we're essentially losing the game because whilst you can say "but the PRs can help!" all you want, the only useful PR we have is the doctor/blocker which might save 1 person out of 26 and prove one person - the fact that we can't mislynch once/twice doesn't go because we get lucky one night
if you're relying on 2 kills consistently colliding, or a doc consistently saving someone, you're not likely to win
if we lose our doc + maf loses their bus the rev will win, which is exactly why mafia will probs not let it come to that and thus wont kill our dictator more than once
if it happens then we switch to democracy and try to go from there
Alright so... Finally I actually read the thread and I already am tired again.
Mostly just tugging. Anyway, from what I could gather, those three are indeed our guys...
To democracy vs. autocracy. I agree with sploorky in this case. To actually have a chance we need to rely on a situational usage of Democracy and Dictatorship. Just relying on a single one might be good in the short-term but in the long term it makes it... let's say too stagnant.
Stagnant as in, it being highly likely that town will continuously lose power by solely relying on democracy. For the first few days though, I'd say that Democracy will be our best option. With 3 "proven" towns in the council, only 2 slots remain for potential mafias. If we are extremely lucky we could even manage to kill the rev.
The likeliness of that though... is minimal.
Now if I didn't forget what I wanted to write about Dictatorships I would have written it right here...
So I'll just go ahead and vote
Vote: Faliara, Velzerat, Hunter, Enderfive, Nottykitten
So why is democracy at the start any better than going straight into dictatorship? Can you give a detailed answer instead of saying something about it being "stagnant" because as far as I'm concerned that's an empty argument
you keep saying that without elaborating on what you mean by that
i've already elaborated on it several times
if the mafia don't claim citizen and cc PRs then we have a 50% chance to lynch mafia every 1st day, with a 100% chance to lynch mafia every 2nd day
delaying the kill attempt on the dictator by one night in order to prevent suspicion on their own guy in the council has no significant drawbacks to the maf, whereas the opposite would lose them one of their own and deprive them of a trusted player who would have a pretty good reason to be townread
true
why's that
present to us a realistic scenario in which we win in democracy, which doesn't rely on 1 specific role dying early by chance
assassin can also poison under a democracy, so maf do have a practical use for the poisoner's antidote ability
for someone who puts so much emphasis on the setup being open and us therefore being able to somehow predict the entire game because of that, you sure missed a lot of details when reading over the setup
i was aware of this but my point was that i had it in my memory that the mafia couldn't target themselves since i remembered thinking that their doc wasn't useful for them other than being able to cc doctor
then i second-guessed myself and thought maybe i just thought that since the poison didn't affect them, forgetting about assassin's poison in the moment
read the role description again
any non-mafia targeting the granny will die
this means that any mafia targeting the granny are perfectly safe and can bring home some freshly baked cookies
oh, good call
it will certainly give them an advantage when counterclaiming someone, which is all they really need
why would they waste 2 mafia kills in order to lynch 1 person and get lynched the next day when that person flips town
