C9++ - Game End - Mafia Win

[Alisha]

One more thing I'd like to draw out is that Alisha pointed out that the Mafia seemed to be hitting out the less active players and keeping the active ones on to apparently cause more chaos. I think the only people capable of doing this is Alisha and Fog.

What do you mean?

Since you latched onto this topic yourself, can you give a description of this "chaotic variation" of what he does and what kind of behaviour he has when he's Mafia?

He will vote with whatever conveniently is the popular target, but he also will pick at people with the intention of making more questions that need to be answered that he does not answer. Town Inffy investigates and comes up with solutions, while Mafia Inffy just makes a mess and then steers people away from his buddies while they try to piece the game together.

Why would you care what I have to say though, you think I'm scum and shouldn't trust anything I'm saying here.

 

[Fog]

Fog what is your current opinion of Unusual_Dood and MoltenAshes? And vice versa. A read breakdown will be appreciated.

I've already said pretty much.

I town read Molten as Inffy is pushing real hard to get him lynched today and I'm pretty certain Inf is mafia.

Unusual, I think is scum, Inffy started an argument against him and then gave up pretty quickly and yesterday he was talking about TWG and Unu being a team but when TWG flipped town his suspicion seems to have dropped

 

[ChocoFox]

What do you mean?

I shouldn't be alive either this late into the game, Choco shouldn't be alive either this late into the game, Timdood shouldn't be alive either this late into the game

My personal theory is whoever is calling the shots as Mafia is deliberately choosing people that are not viewed as being influential, to increase the level of chaos late-game. It's working too, because I have a couple votes, Inffy has a vote, Molten has a vote

What I meant was you referring to Mafia hitting people who are less vocal and loud as the survivors left are to "increase the level of chaos late-game". I feel only you and Fog are capable and would prefer doing something like this.

Fog because of what he said earlier in the game:

would prefer the lynch on a less active player 1) because the less interaction isn't gonna get us far 2) because players who wanna play the game I feel should at least have a chance.

Mainly point (2).

 

[ChocoFox]

I've already said pretty much.

I town read Molten as Inffy is pushing real hard to get him lynched today and I'm pretty certain Inf is mafia.

Why do you think Alisha is Town?

Unusual, I think is scum, Inffy started an argument against him and then gave up pretty quickly and yesterday he was talking about TWG and Unu being a team but when TWG flipped town his suspicion seems to have dropped

I think Unu is still in Inffy's sus list though?

 

[ChocoFox]

Why do you think Alisha is Town?

Sorry, I meant MoltenAshes but I guess that question ^^ still kinda applies.

 

[Infected_alien8_]

The more I read, the more I think Inf is mafia.


This to me seems like a very forced attempt by Inffy to do one of his weird vibe imagery reads. I don't trust him one bit. I think he is trying to fool all of us. so out of remaining players lynch targets are

Alisha
ChocoFox : Town Doc
Infected_alien8_
MoltenAshes
Unusual_Dood
Timdood3 : Town Vig
Fog
Shadow_Hunter3

As far as i'm aware every other player has claimed Vaniller Townie. If the game is set up as we believe it to be we should have 3 mafia members.

There are 6 Players who are basically up for being lynched so we have a 50% chance of hitting a mafia member. IMO the mafia players are Inffy, Unu and Shadow. With Inffy being my strongest suspicion at this point in the game. If we mis-lynch today game is over? As we would be drawing 3/3 I believe

Can you answer my question please? Why did you worry about tim being an sk but not mafia? Why does there being two kills mean he can only be sk?

Also why do you think that is a'forced attempt' by me? What about it seems forced to you? Since right now I don't believe you think that at all

Oh come on, not another "Lynch Town A or Town B."

At this point I'm pretty sure Alisha + Inffy are a mafia duo.

I'm not saying that at all, I'm saying I think you and fog are a team

I already pointed out examples. If you don't agree that those are the assumptions, then alright.

Oh, then no I don't agree those are assumptions and I don't understand why you'd think they were? They're just reads, all of which have fluctuated at some point in this game

Is that not a wide range of suspects though? I wasn't talking about you suspecting like six or seven people, just an area of around 3 people, throwing sufficient shade, and then when the wagon caught on you followed suit.

I wouldn't say having around 3 suspects is unreasonable or unusual for me, especially since there were always 2-3 mafia in this setup. I was finding people suspicious and I ultimately decided on one I preferred to lynch. I don't agree that I 'followed suit' when a wagon caught on at all, where did I do that?

This quote right here kinda illustrates what I mean:

To clarify what that quote means, I wasn't saying I had a few background suspects, I was saying in general people had a few other suspects but the general consensus seemed to be that molten was #1, and that's why it doesn't seem all that strange to me that molten is under the spotlight today, since you said it did seem strange to you. Although I did have multiple suspects during that day yeah, although with TWG I didn't 'follow suit' when his wagon caught on either, I was the one who started it

You and Alisha were both quick to jump on the TWG, first off suspecting him big time and turning it into a huge readfest in Day 0. I got Fantome to give a read on him since I trusted Fantome not to be Mafia. TWG was under huge suspicion on Day 0 and seemed like an easy target to pick on Day 1, especially after Fantome was dead.

Again though do you not think my reasons for suspecting him were fair? And if you do, why do you find it suspicious? And if you don't, why not?

And if you're trying to say that I didn't start the wagon on TWG because alisha was there too on day 0 then okay, but that doesn't change the fact I did start it on day 1 when alisha and everybody else for that matter (except for fog but he hadn't posted yet) wanted to lynch molten instead, so I did still start the wagon on TWG

This is what I'm not okay with. You're not a proven safe by any means. TWG has died and has flipped Town - what was revealed cannot be possibly false but what you are saying right here can be false.

I don't understand your point here. I know I'm not proven safe, and I know TWG is. That doesn't mean TWG's reads aren't able to be false though. Both his and my reads can be false.

Before you were talking about not following legacy reads - you're almost trashing what TWG has said before he died - and now you're asking others to follow your legacy reads if you die? What's this supposed to mean?

I'm asking people to follow up on my interrogation of foggy since I think it'd be helpful in reading his alignment and I explained why. I'm not asking people to kill him, although even if I did ask people to kill him, I never said legacy reads are useless and never listened to, I said they're only used if you can give people a reason to believe in them. So if I wanted people to kill fog when I was gone I'd make a case for why first

I town read Molten as Inffy is pushing real hard to get him lynched today and I'm pretty certain Inf is mafia.

And why are you suddenly 'certain' I'm mafia?

Unusual, I think is scum, Inffy started an argument against him and then gave up pretty quickly and yesterday he was talking about TWG and Unu being a team but when TWG flipped town his suspicion seems to have dropped

I didn't give up, he responded to my accusations with fair enough answers so there was nothing to argue about anymore. If you disagree then tell me why

And yeah my suspicion on him then became 'I think he and TWG are a team since his behaviour would be perfect for that', so then when I was wrong I had little reason to suspect him as such anymore, so he went back into neutral (and in this scenario means I think he's mafia purely because everyone else seems more townie except for you and molten right now)

Fog's weird push on me today is just cementing my feelings that him and molten are a team here. I don't believe he thinks my imagery was 'forced' since I can't see why anyone would(?), and I don't buy that he's genuinely suddenly "certain" I'm mafia when the only reasons he's given, from memory, are that I'm still alive and that imagery felt forced. Those two reasons don't line up to a feeling of certainty in my head and this feels like an agenda rather than a genuine read

 

[Infected_alien8_]

Oh wait I just realized he said 'pretty certain' not 'certain' so ignore that point I guess

 

[Infected_alien8_]

I don't believe he thinks my imagery was 'forced' since I can't see why anyone would(?),

Also I guess if he's already thinking I'm mafia then he could read that as a forced attempt to give imagery, I dunno it just pings my radar a lot that he said that somehow and just seems unbelievable to me. I guess it's because rather than realizing that he's at a point where any read I give seems fake he specifically pointed out the imagery and said that felt forced, which to me would suggest something about the imagery feels particularly forced even when you consider me town, and I just don't see what he could be seeing there so it feels like a fake read

 

[Infected_alien8_]

Also I guess if he's already thinking I'm mafia then he could read that as a forced attempt to give imagery, I dunno it just pings my radar a lot that he said that somehow and just seems unbelievable to me. I guess it's because rather than realizing that he's at a point where any read I give seems fake he specifically pointed out the imagery and said that felt forced, which to me would suggest something about the imagery feels particularly forced even when you consider me town, and I just don't see what he could be seeing there so it feels like a fake read

(Also I originally wrote this paragraph as a 'I don't know why but it just does' and then realized why I thought it was so that's why it might seem like I suddenly switched from being unsure to suddenly having an idea of why, I dunno I read it back and it seemed weird so I figured I'd clarify what happened)

 

[ChocoFox]

Oh, then no I don't agree those are assumptions and I don't understand why you'd think they were? They're just reads, all of which have fluctuated at some point in this game

Alright yeah I think that is fair.

I wouldn't say having around 3 suspects is unreasonable or unusual for me, especially since there were always 2-3 mafia in this setup. I was finding people suspicious and I ultimately decided on one I preferred to lynch. I don't agree that I 'followed suit' when a wagon caught on at all, where did I do that?

Fair enough, yes.

To clarify what that quote means, I wasn't saying I had a few background suspects, I was saying in general people had a few other suspects but the general consensus seemed to be that molten was #1, and that's why it doesn't seem all that strange to me that molten is under the spotlight today, since you said it did seem strange to you. Although I did have multiple suspects during that day yeah, although with TWG I didn't 'follow suit' when his wagon caught on either, I was the one who started it

OK.

Again though do you not think my reasons for suspecting him were fair? And if you do, why do you find it suspicious? And if you don't, why not?

And if you're trying to say that I didn't start the wagon on TWG because alisha was there too on day 0 then okay, but that doesn't change the fact I did start it on day 1 when alisha and everybody else for that matter (except for fog but he hadn't posted yet) wanted to lynch molten instead, so I did still start the wagon on TWG

As I mentioned before, I think the reasons for people suspecting TWG after he claimed were fair, but before that it was a bit weird. However you taking responsibility for the lynch here hrm.

I don't understand your point here. I know I'm not proven safe, and I know TWG is. That doesn't mean TWG's reads aren't able to be false though. Both his and my reads can be false.

My point here is that dead men tell no lies. However, I suppose you have a fair point too.

I'm asking people to follow up on my interrogation of foggy since I think it'd be helpful in reading his alignment and I explained why. I'm not asking people to kill him, although even if I did ask people to kill him, I never said legacy reads are useless and never listened to, I said they're only used if you can give people a reason to believe in them. So if I wanted people to kill fog when I was gone I'd make a case for why first

Alright, that's true.

Well, at this point, if you really are Mafia, then honestly well done for that post, which is probably the most Townie post I've read this whole game. I've been grilling you a bit to make myself more confident on a read on you, and yes I do see the whole perspective of MoltenAshes/Fog/Unu being a Mafia team since they do seem to move together in the same direction, however I needed to make sure I trusted that read more than the Alisha/Shadow/Inffy read.

I think with Tim agreeing with you after the initial doubt, plus the three long posts in refutation - and with Fog and MoltenAshes acting a bit weird and in sync, I think I can trust you again.

For now:

Unvote

 

[Alisha]

You're unvoting me while you trust Inffy?

 

[Infected_alien8_]

As I mentioned before, I think the reasons for people suspecting TWG after he claimed were fair, but before that it was a bit weird. However you taking responsibility for the lynch here hrm.

(Fwiw I'm just arguing against the point that I only ever joined wagons that were already gaining traction. I know arguing that I lead a lynch on town isn't exactly a convincing argument for my towniness but I wanted to counteract that argument on me since it was one of the reasons you were suspecting me)

 

[ChocoFox]

You're unvoting me while you trust Inffy?

I still don't trust you - and I still do consider the possibility that you could be scum. However Inffy has presented a very convincing argument against MoltenAshes and Fog, which has led me to think is more convincing that my scum read on you and Shadow. And since both Inffy and Tim Townread you, and I'm 100% sure that one is Town (due to Tim being proven), while Townreading the other, empirically pushing on you right now wouldn't be beneficial, I don't think.

 

[Alisha]

I still don't trust you - and I still do consider the possibility that you could be scum. However Inffy has presented a very convincing argument against MoltenAshes and Fog, which has led me to think is more convincing that my scum read on you and Shadow. And since both Inffy and Tim Townread you, and I'm 100% sure that one is Town (due to Tim being proven), while Townreading the other, empirically pushing on you right now wouldn't be beneficial, I don't think.

Ok I guess

 

[Fog]

Can you answer my question please? Why did you worry about tim being an sk but not mafia? Why does there being two kills mean he can only be sk?

Because, 2 deaths, has to be mafia + either SK or Vig. He claims Vig. Therefore he commit one kill. Nobody else in the game counterclaimed him therefore. He did the other kill. Meaning he is SK or Vig

And why are you suddenly 'certain' I'm mafia?

Because you're still here AND all of your "reads/vibes" have resulted in the townspeople being killed. You are responsible for ALL the deaths.

 

[Infected_alien8_]

Because, 2 deaths, has to be mafia + either SK or Vig. He claims Vig. Therefore he commit one kill. Nobody else in the game counterclaimed him therefore. He did the other kill. Meaning he is SK or Vig

And what about the possibility that the death of fantome was caused by mafia and the death of okx was caused by the SK?

Because you're still here AND all of your "reads/vibes" have resulted in the townspeople being killed. You are responsible for ALL the deaths.

Alright I know I did lead the TWG lynch but I think that's a misrepresentation to act as though I'm the one responsible for all of the deaths

 

[Infected_alien8_]

Also you agreed with me about TWG so the fact you're using that against me also smells like an agenda. In fact you also gave your own reasons for why you suspected TWG so it's not as though you can say it was solely me who convinced you to vote for him either

 

[Alisha]

I think if the deaths were switched, scum would have pushed harder on lynching Tim or they would have nightkilled him since they would have known he was lying when he claimed

 

[Infected_alien8_]

I think if the deaths were switched, scum would have pushed harder on lynching Tim or they would have nightkilled him since they would have known he was lying when he claimed

Btw in case I'm not being clear, I'm not actually saying I think the mafia killed fantome and SK killed okx, I'm just saying that when tim claimed it was possible that tim was mafia, claimed vig who killed fantome when actually it was the mafia kill that did that, and meanwhile the SK killed okx

I had my own reasons for not believing that to be the case but fog hasn't mentioned any and seemed to think it was plausible tim was lying and fakeclaiming as SK, so I'm wondering why fog didn't consider the possibility tim was mafia and only considered tim being SK

 

[Shadow_Hunter3]

Because you're still here AND all of your "reads/vibes" have resulted in the townspeople being killed. You are responsible for ALL the deaths

You're as responsible for ernie and TWG as Inffy, maybe more. Since you were one of the people that got them lynched.

 

[Infected_alien8_]

You're as responsible for ernie and TWG as Inffy, maybe more. Since you were one of the people that got them lynched.

Btw what's your opinion of alisha?

 

[Fog]

You're as responsible for ernie and TWG as Inffy, maybe more. Since you were one of the people that got them lynched.

Did I push either lynch?

 

[Infected_alien8_]

Did I push either lynch?

Yes?

Unvote

I am thinking of swapping my vote to ernie138 as getting the lynch seems like the best course of action right now. However, I believe that everybody should have the chance to defend themselves so I will hold off on voting for now giving Ernie the opportunity to argue his case.

I think Tim and Ernie are a team, just getting that connection

Vote Ernie

Do I think he is the scummiest? No. Do I think it might shed some light on Tim and the rest of the game? Yes.

I feel he was the one heading the vote for either Fantome or Ernie specifically. He didn't really give them the opportunity to defend themselves. I would also say TWG is now in my suspicions as well, mainly because he is targeting me currently and also due to the fact he is being a little aggressive or maybe that's just how I am reading his messages.

I don't understand why I am seen as suspicious as of this point. I changed my vote to Ernie as I earlier stated so that we would reach a lynch and also gain information surrounding the game. I believe I was only one of a few people who actually gave Ernie the chance to defend himself, which he had plenty of time to do, yet said nothing. Losing the Cop this early on in the game is unfortunate, however, we are still able to come back from it. As was the case in the previous C9 game.

I also don't understand this whole "I didn't craft my own ideas" I would say that I put out quite a few individual theories day 0 but as the general consensus was a lynch would be more beneficial, I placed my vote on the only player it seemed had gained enough traction to result in a lynch.

Also finding it rather entertaining that like 90% of players thought I was town yesterday and now everybody thinks I'm scum today. Some fights you are just unable to win

Ok, I have finally caught up! Sorry I've ended up doing a couple of extra shifts at work and trying to get a stupid achieve on BOI Nottykitten and Mooglie have been witness to my struggle.


I don't know if you still want my answer. But I personally find TWG more suspicious. The reason for this is the fact that he was pushing hard for me to be lynched talking about me following the crowd and not having my own opinions, however, when people pushed him to find evidence of this / explain his reasoning he suddenly backed down and just gave up, possibly because at this point there had been talk of me being mafia, and if the traction built up with him avoiding lynching yet another town player he would appear more town. Something just doesn't sit right to me.


Because I'm town? Haha it's a simple response and seems obvious but as you yourself stated earlier this is a numbers game and we need to keep a town majority. I am a "Vaniller Townie" so therefore if you were to lynch a town player I would prefer you to lynch me than another PR and put ourselves in more of a shitty situation. Also I have been less active that some players so I suppose in that respect I am also higher up the list.

On the subject of my activity, I am finding it very strange that some players are basing their reads on the activity of players. Since when has the amount of posts a player made related to their alignment. If this were the case you could argue that Inffy should have been town every game.

Now for reads as people will probably want them:​

~ Alisha: Town read on her at the moment, even with her flip-flopping around I get the impression that she is just nervous of mis-lynching as this is a smaller game so the room for error is smaller.​

~ ChocoFox: Neutral read at the moment, I never really understood the suspicion on him tbh.

~ Infected_alien8_: Neutral/Scum I don't really understand him backing me up as being town for like 5 pages then coming out with a massive post saying he thinks I'm mafia... also the fact that he has survived the night also doesn't sit well with me. However, I trust him more than some other players at this stage of the game

~ MoltenAshes: Neutral read, for now, I think he is having the blame placed on him at the moment, without much to back it up
TheWeakGuy48_: Scum as stated earlier, he seems to plant suspicion then back out before the vote is carried through

~ Unusual_Dood: Scum most of his posts have been clear but almost avoiding answering any questions that have been directed to him. I'm also just vibing him and weak as a team. Brotherly love and all that <3

~ Timdood3: Town reading, due to his claim, HOWEVER, I am slightly worried he could be SK and waiting till the game is further on to commit another kill and take the win.

~ catgirl12466: Neutral/Town I don't have too much of a read, however, Tim seemed to trust her for some reason I possibly missed and due to the fact he is the most "proven" town player at this instant.

~ Shadow_Hunter3: Scum I feel he is hiding in the shadows (excuse the pun) hasn't answered any questions as far as I remember, and hasn't submitted anything useful. Reminds me of a past game where a mafia player won or almost won by basically being inactive

Vote TWG

I thought he was softclaiming Doc when he said he visited me last night, and I didn't wanna lynch the doctor. But in light of his claim, and the maths that I don't really understand the chance of him being legit is very small...

Unvote

Vote TWG

Moreso TWG but I struggle to believe you genuinely think I'm the one responsible for these deaths, especially TWG when you provided arguments against him that I didn't even mention myself

 

[Infected_alien8_]

Yes?







Moreso TWG but I struggle to believe you genuinely think I'm the one responsible for these deaths, especially TWG when you provided arguments against him that I didn't even mention myself

I guess you also provided an argument against ernie that I didn't mention myself too (him and tim being a team) but yeah

 

[Infected_alien8_]

I just felt that the whole paragraph seems quite like defensive of Ernie but also the idea of him throwing in that there is no reason to vote Ernie, although we agreed that lynching a potentially less active player would be more beneficial at this stage of the game. And then the last sentence was very definitive like a "fuck everybody else's opinions i'm not joining the vote".

Yet when a little more pressure was put on Ernie he started to voice the opinion of voting for him. Which I feel was very strange, perhaps a tactic to seem more town? IDK its kinda vibes, but due to what has been said.

(and this is the reason behind you thinking they're a team, I didn't quote that at first since I figured the focus was on tim here but I guess it's still an example of you pushing ernie as mafia since you're saying they're a team)