They Are Among Us [Game Complete!]
- Thread starter Stranger from Myst Island
- Start date
Infected_alien8_
Garry's Mod Admin
this sentence also wont age well
im only offering my opinions, some of them against UNU, some in his favour - you could interpret that as me defending my partner if you want but consider the alternative as well
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oh no one of my quotes broke again
but in response to:
i said that im not sure what this is referring to but ive defended myself without using meta plenty this game, and used meta when it became relevant to my defence (e.g. hk saying im too chaotic)
Infected_alien8_
Garry's Mod Admin
also since i just realized you asked how it'd clear UNU - i think if UNU was maf he'd have come to the same conclusion as I did RE what a good plan was last night, since in my experience with UNU as maf he's always running numbers for what best choice maf can make for the nightkill
so if UNU was maf, and maf had a blocker, i think erik would be alive, and since erik is alive, that means either maf have no blocker and idk what unu is, or if maf do have a blocker, im willing to bet unu isnt mafia
so if UNU was maf, and maf had a blocker, i think erik would be alive, and since erik is alive, that means either maf have no blocker and idk what unu is, or if maf do have a blocker, im willing to bet unu isnt mafia
Infected_alien8_
Garry's Mod Admin
another thing I just considered is that maf does have a blocker, does have UNU, but had reason to fear that their blocker would be blocked tonight
man I feel like I made such a mess of those last few posts so let me make ONE LAST post to summarize what I want to say without typos this time:
- I believe the optimal strat for mafia, if they have a blocker, was to let both erik and UNU live today (unless they had reason to worry that their blocker would be blocked)
- Obviously not every mafia team will arrive at that conclusion, but I think UNU would, because of how he uses maths a lot for his team - I think given that he spends time thinking things over as to what the best course of action is, he'd probably have realized that mafia should leave erik and him both alive (unless they were worried their blocker would be blocked)
- Since erik is alive, this means either a) maf has a blocker but doesn't have UNU, or does have UNU but their blocker was someone who had suspicion on them quite a bit yesterday (pairjax perhaps?)
- If maf has a blocker, then either UNU isn't maf or the maf blocker was under quite a bit of suspicion yesterday
I originally hadn't thought about the whole 'maybe mafia were worried their blocker is blocked' part, so originally I said if someone had reason to believe that maf had a blocker to let us know, but I guess I should retract that now since maf having a blocker isn't quite as clearing of UNU as I originally believed it to be since there's still the possibility that mafia has UNU and a blocker but their mafia blocker was under quite a bit of suspicion
man I feel like I made such a mess of those last few posts so let me make ONE LAST post to summarize what I want to say without typos this time:
- I believe the optimal strat for mafia, if they have a blocker, was to let both erik and UNU live today (unless they had reason to worry that their blocker would be blocked)
- Obviously not every mafia team will arrive at that conclusion, but I think UNU would, because of how he uses maths a lot for his team - I think given that he spends time thinking things over as to what the best course of action is, he'd probably have realized that mafia should leave erik and him both alive (unless they were worried their blocker would be blocked)
- Since erik is alive, this means either a) maf has a blocker but doesn't have UNU, or does have UNU but their blocker was someone who had suspicion on them quite a bit yesterday (pairjax perhaps?)
- If maf has a blocker, then either UNU isn't maf or the maf blocker was under quite a bit of suspicion yesterday
I originally hadn't thought about the whole 'maybe mafia were worried their blocker is blocked' part, so originally I said if someone had reason to believe that maf had a blocker to let us know, but I guess I should retract that now since maf having a blocker isn't quite as clearing of UNU as I originally believed it to be since there's still the possibility that mafia has UNU and a blocker but their mafia blocker was under quite a bit of suspicion
Infected_alien8_
Garry's Mod Admin
man I accidentally posted that without double checking it and I already see I missed a few things so my argument there doesn't even make proper sense
UGH why am i like this
fixed post:
- I believe the optimal strat for mafia, if they have a blocker, was to let both erik and UNU live today (unless they had reason to worry that their blocker would be blocked)
- Obviously not every mafia team will arrive at that conclusion, but I think UNU would, because of how he uses maths a lot for his team - I think given that he spends time thinking things over as to what the best course of action is when doing his maths stuff, he'd probably have realized that mafia should leave erik and him both alive (unless they were worried their blocker would be blocked)
- Since erik is alive, this means either a) maf doesnt have a blocker, b) mafia has a blocker but doesn't have UNU, or c) mafia does have UNU but their blocker was someone who had suspicion on them quite a bit yesterday (pairjax perhaps?)
- If maf has a blocker, then either UNU isn't maf or the maf blocker was under quite a bit of suspicion yesterday
I wasn't thinking about the 'maybe mafia were worried their blocker is blocked' part when I made my first post on this topic like half an hour ago, so originally I said that if someone had reason to believe that maf had a blocker to let us know, but I guess I should retract that now since maf having a blocker isn't quite as clearing of UNU as I originally believed it to be, since there's still the possibility that mafia has UNU and a blocker but their mafia blocker was under quite a bit of suspicion, and they therefore chose not to leave the real cop alive in case they couldnt successfully block them from possibly outing one of them
--
with that i am going to take a (very clearly) much needed break and aim to go back to proofreading my posts again when i am back
UGH why am i like this
fixed post:
- I believe the optimal strat for mafia, if they have a blocker, was to let both erik and UNU live today (unless they had reason to worry that their blocker would be blocked)
- Obviously not every mafia team will arrive at that conclusion, but I think UNU would, because of how he uses maths a lot for his team - I think given that he spends time thinking things over as to what the best course of action is when doing his maths stuff, he'd probably have realized that mafia should leave erik and him both alive (unless they were worried their blocker would be blocked)
- Since erik is alive, this means either a) maf doesnt have a blocker, b) mafia has a blocker but doesn't have UNU, or c) mafia does have UNU but their blocker was someone who had suspicion on them quite a bit yesterday (pairjax perhaps?)
- If maf has a blocker, then either UNU isn't maf or the maf blocker was under quite a bit of suspicion yesterday
I wasn't thinking about the 'maybe mafia were worried their blocker is blocked' part when I made my first post on this topic like half an hour ago, so originally I said that if someone had reason to believe that maf had a blocker to let us know, but I guess I should retract that now since maf having a blocker isn't quite as clearing of UNU as I originally believed it to be, since there's still the possibility that mafia has UNU and a blocker but their mafia blocker was under quite a bit of suspicion, and they therefore chose not to leave the real cop alive in case they couldnt successfully block them from possibly outing one of them
--
with that i am going to take a (very clearly) much needed break and aim to go back to proofreading my posts again when i am back
Infected_alien8_
Garry's Mod Admin
okay I am back and calmed down from my frantic typing
also just to make sure im not misunderstood - reading over my last post, it sounds like I am certain about my conclusions when I start talking about 'since erik is alive this means...', but I'm not certain of course, they're just what I think is likely given my opinion of what UNU would do as maf (put a lot of thought into best nightkill basically)
im probably gonna go to bed in an hour just fyi
also just to make sure im not misunderstood - reading over my last post, it sounds like I am certain about my conclusions when I start talking about 'since erik is alive this means...', but I'm not certain of course, they're just what I think is likely given my opinion of what UNU would do as maf (put a lot of thought into best nightkill basically)
im probably gonna go to bed in an hour just fyi
Fair stuff, but I think it's summed up here:
While it's optimal to block if possible, there are other variables at play, and by the end of the day maf never wants a cop to survive. One conf town is bad enough. Two conf town by d1 is terrible for maf's longevity. Better to remove that threat asap than risk it going on. It also puts a gamble on who can claim the best.
Unu not being maf is a possibility because everything is a possibility. But given the claiming of D0, their behavior in D0 and subsequent change in D1 are damning. I don't know how the backpedaling happens now instead of D0 to immediately get ready of any confusion, and messing up the role, should it be believed, to that extent is difficult to fathom.
Meta to me is manipulated on a whim, and sometimes people are just sloppy by accident. Unu very well could have come up with this plan, but it's just as likely the nature of D0 changed plans.
While it's optimal to block if possible, there are other variables at play, and by the end of the day maf never wants a cop to survive. One conf town is bad enough. Two conf town by d1 is terrible for maf's longevity. Better to remove that threat asap than risk it going on. It also puts a gamble on who can claim the best.
Unu not being maf is a possibility because everything is a possibility. But given the claiming of D0, their behavior in D0 and subsequent change in D1 are damning. I don't know how the backpedaling happens now instead of D0 to immediately get ready of any confusion, and messing up the role, should it be believed, to that extent is difficult to fathom.
Infected_alien8_
Garry's Mod Admin
yeah I mean don't get me wrong I'm not saying he 100% would've done, he could've just not thought about it in the same way I did ofc
but I think with how things were left off at end of day 0 it would've been a viable plan, and it would've been the one I personally would've gunned for, and I figured there was a decent chance the maf came to the same conclusion, since to me it was one of the first thing I thought of when we had a cop cc, so given it seemed quite obvious to me, I thought it was likely other maf would think it as well
yeah there are risks and honestly reading you say this kinda made me realize that I was sorta tunnel visioned on the idea that leaving both alive was the optimal play - it's true that as long as they block the real cop, the cop can't prove anyone so it's just 1 proven town in exchange for possibly getting 1 more town dead than they would've done otherwise, but I guess the risk of the mafia blocker dying and the doc always being on cop and the cop ultimately coming back into play and ruining the game for mafia is a real risk that I wasn't giving enough weight
so I do take back what I said about the whole 'if there's a blocker x happened
yeah I mean I don't disagree, that's why I said earlier that his behaviour was so anti-town it seemed ridiculous to give it a second thought, but I dunno UNU is a strange one for me this game, when he's not around and I read back through his posts I feel he's scummy as heck, but when he's here talking my gut just yells to me that he's town for some reason
and like I pointed out before, his defence accidentally forgetting to explain why he claimed cop suddenly felt like a ray of towniness shining through to me since surely he wouldn't forget/not realize he had to do that as scum?? like his whole focus of that post should've been on making sure he defused suspicion - something his post clearly fails to do properly and he's not stupid, he'd have realized that surely? the only way I can think of it being reasonable is if he was just writing from memory of what went through his head, which means going off honest reflection rather than fabricated defence, since then slip ups happen like that easily where you forget to say something important to your argument. otherwise it's just a rushed post, and surely he realized it was going to play a vital role in whether or not he died today or not. and it's not like he's given up since he's still fighting hard
and that's another thing, the fact he's still fighting so hard about it kinda rubs off as town to me as well? as though he genuinely believes he can sway town into letting him survive. like, he has hope. and i kinda doubt he'd feel that way if he was maf since it was a huge messup, like it'd be like looking up at a huge cliff face and feeling like you have to climb it, and not only that but he knows he's BSing about it, so those two things combined make it so that I feel he'd have so little hope in his ability to change anyone's mind that I think UNU would just kinda give up and say 'im not speaking anymore. just lynch me'. that's my impression of what past UNU would do at least, since I remember in Economy of Madness when he messed up his claim he just voted himself and said nothing (presumably to not give anymore content for people to analyse to look for his teammates/info about the mafia from). it was a different situation since there he quoted the amount of coins he had taken from someone and it just didn't add up since that person should've had 0 coins since they died (or something, i dont remember the details), so i guess its plausible he just found that way harder to think of how to escape from it than this. but still it shows me that he's capable of giving in, and the absolute catastrophic mess he'd be in right now feels like that'd be enough to make him give up here too. thats what my empathy says i guess, that if unu is scum, and these are the circumstances hes in, he wouldnt have hope to keep fighting like he is. he might fight a little, but no way would he talk to mars and tim in the tone that he did, with the confidence he did, as though it's obvious what he's saying is right, as though town really has a fighting chance if they listen to him, and as though he can actually persuade people into doing what he wants them to do. obviously that's based on past info and maybe he has a different attitude now but his persistence and confidence and hope that he still somehow has is another thing that actually kinda makes me townread him
im gonna look really stupid if he flips scum but /shrug. i know how scummy he looks and i know the evidence against him. but i cant help but feel there's a streak of blue in him that i really shouldnt be seeing right now if hes scum? so if he is scum im gonna be pleasantly surprised that he still had such a fighting spirit in him even after the position he got himself in
yeah i get that perspective. but i get what he's saying, and i can like, lowkey see it happening to him. so thats why i have my doubts about him being scum
that said i can barely see any chance that someone else gets lynched today, and honestly, they probably shouldnt. i think UNU is probably the objectively best lynch we're gonna get today. and ill be most likely gunning for hk lynch tomorrow, if i'm still around for our last lynch chance (assuming there aren't like 4 mafia somehow). but i dunno. i just have a feeling he's gonna flip town, and i know how stupid im gonna look if he doesnt, but it just means he played me really well i guess so good job
anyways that was a long rant for 3am in the morning, gonna go play animal crossing in bed then fall asleep
i feel like i sound like im high on drugs in this post, i promise im not
Infected_alien8_
Garry's Mod Admin
i feel like i didnt properly capture what exactly my intuition is about UNU being town in that rant but its super hard to do
tl;dr btw, intuition says UNU is townie even though i know acknowledge all the catastrophic amount of evidence against him
tl;dr btw, intuition says UNU is townie even though i know acknowledge all the catastrophic amount of evidence against him
Infected_alien8_
Garry's Mod Admin
and by townie i dont mean like, 100% townie. i see some red in him as well. but i think my intuition more strongly believes he's town, while it still slightly believes hes scum.
Good Skele - nullest of the null; just sitting on the sidelines not doing anything; could easily be either alignment but it's literally impossible to tell b/c they've given nothing to this game
Inffy - scum; defense of Erik, swap against Erik, continued defense of Unu really trying to stretch to save him, dismissive/sloppy posting; reeking of TMI in his reads
HKCaper - scumlean; fencesitting professional, isn't committing on anything; argument against Inf doesn't go anywhere
Timdood3 - town, but lack of participation rn is making me doubt
Unusual_Dood - essentially lock scum
Sessybessy - scumlean; lack of stances; just seems to be drifting along and not contributing much; doesn't really push for anything/plays it safe
Pairjax - null; acted weird yesterday and is now completely MIA
TheWeakGuy48_ - town; putting a lot of thought into heavy analysis posts, deconstructs things effectively, good force in the town; their reaction EOD D0 seems like a town thing
POE = Unu/Inf/Sess + HK
Pairjax Good Skele give reads please
Otherwise, this day is just going to run into a brick wall.
Inffy - scum; defense of Erik, swap against Erik, continued defense of Unu really trying to stretch to save him, dismissive/sloppy posting; reeking of TMI in his reads
HKCaper - scumlean; fencesitting professional, isn't committing on anything; argument against Inf doesn't go anywhere
Timdood3 - town, but lack of participation rn is making me doubt
Unusual_Dood - essentially lock scum
Sessybessy - scumlean; lack of stances; just seems to be drifting along and not contributing much; doesn't really push for anything/plays it safe
Pairjax - null; acted weird yesterday and is now completely MIA
TheWeakGuy48_ - town; putting a lot of thought into heavy analysis posts, deconstructs things effectively, good force in the town; their reaction EOD D0 seems like a town thing
POE = Unu/Inf/Sess + HK
Pairjax Good Skele give reads please
Otherwise, this day is just going to run into a brick wall.
I said I was really busy yesterday, and even made some time in the morning to argue with unu ;-;
Plus I ended just having a pretty rough day. I just got home from work and I'm working on a post literally right now
Well, I've had a really hard time following inf's approximate full page of rambling. But since I have some time now I'll try to put together my thoughts. I'll start with my townreads because that's where my thoughts are the least muddled.
(Disclaimer: this is going to be mostly/entirely from memory and how I feel at this moment.)
Town:
Twg - I can say with relative certainty that twg is town. I don't really wish to elaborate at this time.
Mars - I've nothing concrete to go on, but I've found myself agreeing with and supporting most of his thought processes, which would generally indicate that we're on the same page. That's town points in my book. The only thing that'd make me reconsider his towniness is his insistence that Unu has to be scum because Erik died (but it's possible I'm just not seeing the relation).
HK - Similar to mars but to a lesser extent. He did bring up a reasonable point about the possibility of two town messengers existing so that town could relatively safely get items where they need to go. Now that I'm thinking about it, though, that could just be a cover for a buddy.
Neutrals:
Sessy - Sessy hasn't really given me anything readable outside of potential ties to UNU. She didn't put up a vote yesterday which I obviously don't like. But honestly, reluctance for any sort of lynch is something I'd kind of expect from her.
Skele - Also didn't put up a vote yesterday. Not being present at the end of the day is a reasonable excuse, but we all knew well in advance when the deadline was and had ample opportunity to get a vote in before leaving.
@PairJax - Tagging him because he hasn't even checked in today. Leaning more toward scum than town because he was fairly active and vocal yesterday but has dropped into the background incredibly quickly.
Normally I'd put scumreads here but for this one I'm just going to say... Controversials:
Infected and Unu. I've been thinking all night trying to process everything in regards to them and I can't seem to come to any solid conclusions.
Inffy has kind of been rubbing me the wrong way today. I think it started with his townread of me. I know he even said at the time that people were going to think it's fake but...it kind of felt like he was trying to get on my good side? Like...I would definitely have expected to be asked about my last post of yesterday where I didn't have time to explain why I wanted to hammer. Especially since we ended up lynching town. But he just kind of let it slide when today came along and just said the I was "genuine as heck."
And Unu....well, regardless of his alignment I can't come up with any reasonable motive to act the way he has. I can't for the life of me rationalize his thought process.
I don't think both could be scum because (and this is a meta read) I think they'd aim to make a big spectacle out of the bus.
If I don't stop now I'm just going to start rambling because I'm losing focus. I hope this at least gives some insight into what I'm thinking about. I'd be happy to answer any questions if anything was unclear.
(Disclaimer: this is going to be mostly/entirely from memory and how I feel at this moment.)
Town:
Twg - I can say with relative certainty that twg is town. I don't really wish to elaborate at this time.
Mars - I've nothing concrete to go on, but I've found myself agreeing with and supporting most of his thought processes, which would generally indicate that we're on the same page. That's town points in my book. The only thing that'd make me reconsider his towniness is his insistence that Unu has to be scum because Erik died (but it's possible I'm just not seeing the relation).
HK - Similar to mars but to a lesser extent. He did bring up a reasonable point about the possibility of two town messengers existing so that town could relatively safely get items where they need to go. Now that I'm thinking about it, though, that could just be a cover for a buddy.
Neutrals:
Sessy - Sessy hasn't really given me anything readable outside of potential ties to UNU. She didn't put up a vote yesterday which I obviously don't like. But honestly, reluctance for any sort of lynch is something I'd kind of expect from her.
Skele - Also didn't put up a vote yesterday. Not being present at the end of the day is a reasonable excuse, but we all knew well in advance when the deadline was and had ample opportunity to get a vote in before leaving.
@PairJax - Tagging him because he hasn't even checked in today. Leaning more toward scum than town because he was fairly active and vocal yesterday but has dropped into the background incredibly quickly.
Normally I'd put scumreads here but for this one I'm just going to say... Controversials:
Infected and Unu. I've been thinking all night trying to process everything in regards to them and I can't seem to come to any solid conclusions.
Inffy has kind of been rubbing me the wrong way today. I think it started with his townread of me. I know he even said at the time that people were going to think it's fake but...it kind of felt like he was trying to get on my good side? Like...I would definitely have expected to be asked about my last post of yesterday where I didn't have time to explain why I wanted to hammer. Especially since we ended up lynching town. But he just kind of let it slide when today came along and just said the I was "genuine as heck."
And Unu....well, regardless of his alignment I can't come up with any reasonable motive to act the way he has. I can't for the life of me rationalize his thought process.
I don't think both could be scum because (and this is a meta read) I think they'd aim to make a big spectacle out of the bus.
If I don't stop now I'm just going to start rambling because I'm losing focus. I hope this at least gives some insight into what I'm thinking about. I'd be happy to answer any questions if anything was unclear.
I want to have some discussions, but i dont feel like the endless back and forths with inffy will do much. It just ends in inffy multiposting and flooding the thread.
I still think, besides people giving reads, we should discuss the items, especially wanna hear from pair, skele, and sess. Im still waiting for a response from twg and sessy aswell on things i tagged them in.
Now inf gave some descriptions on items, and i quite like that idea, just dont trust inf (which will be better if twg confirms it). I know mars is opposed to discussing items too much, then again he also wants discussion, and i dont see what else to discuss rn.
Im wondering if there are more blueprints out there, since, if we only got twg/infs print to work with, that seems vulnerable to maf attacks. If there is more, the chance of getting someone the items are higher.
I still think, besides people giving reads, we should discuss the items, especially wanna hear from pair, skele, and sess. Im still waiting for a response from twg and sessy aswell on things i tagged them in.
Now inf gave some descriptions on items, and i quite like that idea, just dont trust inf (which will be better if twg confirms it). I know mars is opposed to discussing items too much, then again he also wants discussion, and i dont see what else to discuss rn.
Im wondering if there are more blueprints out there, since, if we only got twg/infs print to work with, that seems vulnerable to maf attacks. If there is more, the chance of getting someone the items are higher.
Infected_alien8_
Garry's Mod Admin
I agree about hk and sessy
But I think you're giving TWG too little credit for how he can be as scum, I think he's perfectly capable of making those posts to 'seem' town even though he isn't (I personally have no idea how I feel about TWG though, but if UNU is scum, TWG's reads of UNU stink of bussing to me)
yeah uhm sorry about that
I mean, to me it was obvious why you hammered, in fact I tagged you to hammer, since I know you wanted a lynch ultimately, even if it was someone you were unsure of (because you said that before iirc), and if you didn't hammer it would've been a NL
yeah sorry x2
i am going back to proofreading posts before i send them again as i was doing day 0, yesterday i was slightly over excited with how intense this game is and how im like a major suspect so i kinda let my emotions take hold and was rushing out my replies because of it
anyways I'm on break from work so I'll do a quick reads list too:
HK - moderate scum, he's too neutral with his opinions; I see no feelings that are guiding his reads at all, it's all just pure possibility exploring with no feelings involved to land him to a conclusion of how he feels and what he personally, intuitively thinks is going on. makes me think he's not truly in the dark about who's who. he's started having more solid opinions, but only after i pointed it out, so it means nothing to me.
Mars - moderate-strong town, just vibes.
UNU - slight-moderate town, see my big paragraph rant above in this page. intuition thinks he's townie despite the evidence mounted up against him, but i also think he's objectively the most likely to be mafia
Tim - strong town, again just vibes.
TWG - neutral. If UNU is scum, TWG is gonna become a slight-to-moderate scumread, because his push on UNU still gives me bus feels (or at least, i get the impression he knows more than hes letting on) as soon as I start to imagine UNU being scum. But he'd only be slight-moderate scum, not strong-scum, because there was a post he made today which actually felt pretty townie, when he, for the second time, said he was mad at me for taking his items, and talked about me from a third person perspective. I dunno why it felt townie but it did. Also tim's read makes me doubt it as well. If UNU is town then I'm probably like, neutral or slight-moderate town on TWG.
Good Skele - neutral, nothing to say about him at all really
sessy - slight scum. couple of backpedalling with how she felt about UNU made her look like just trying to fit in with what would look best for her at the time. Not a big fan of how she's suddenly suspicious of me since she's not given any actual reason, even though I've asked her twice, so the possibility of her just sheeping along with what's hot at the moment is still very real to me since I have no other explanation to substitute in, at the moment. Also she's just not really going anywhere with her reads or doing anything. It's not dramatically different to how I can imagine her as town but I'd expect at least a little bit more pushing than what she's been doing.
Pairjax - back to neutral. I don't know exactly why I felt he was townie yesterday, but the feelings aren't there anymore.
I guess by process of elimination my scumteam prediction is HK, sessy, and either skele or pairjax (under the assumption there's 3 maf), if UNU turns out to be town. If UNU is scum then it'd be UNU, TWG and sessy probably?
