How does that put us at a disadvantage?
how does the mafia building a powerful item put us at a disadvantage? by doing exactly that
if we cant build our thing but they can build theirs, that puts us at a disadvantage, assuming their item is useful for them and not for us (or more useful for them than it is for us)
How does that put us at a disadvantage? Unless they have a thief role we can just trade all our items to 1 or more trusted players in safety. They can't get their items and the pool of people who could potentially be scum is thinned.
one, if maf can block players from giving items, they can prevent us from trading significant items "in safety", and they can kill people who have the items they need to build what they want to build.
additionally, you say "unless they have a thief role" - exactly, they could have a thief role. and this possibility has always been there. on day 0 anything was possible, including that item thief role. on d1, like i said, fog's items were potentially messed with d0, so we had reason to think there might be one even more so, and the lack of people reporting items missing during night didnt suggest there was no maf thief to me because it made sense it was a day one, due to fog's items being messed with during the day. today its still possible - whilst we havent got any evidence of a theft d1, they couldve a) been inactive and not sent an action (at this point all of my suspects are relatively inactive so this isnt unlikely), b) targetted UNU, who didnt claim his items to us so we dont know whether his items were switched or not.
you say the pool of people is thinned, but ive already addressed that - its likely it wont be thinned significantly, if at all.
So the 3 mafia are now consistently outted giving further suspicion to them. The only way to blend in would be to target the same people again.
thats not true.
in order to be cleared about not hiding the blueprint items, you need to show that you sent 2 of your items to someone else. if you sent only 1 of them, it doesnt prove your 2nd item isnt the blueprint one.
over two nights, if maf targets different townies each time, those 6 townies they target have only showed 1 of their items. for night 3 onwards, yeah, blending in becomes harder, and the pool begins to shrink, and from hereon maf can only keep the pool at 6 players (with 3 of them being mafia), as long as they keep targeting the same people. but a pool of 6 by night 3 is not significant at all, bearing in mind we just finished night 2 and there are 7 of us alive. given its not unlikely for the mafia to be able to target those same players and make the pool a pool of 6, this plan becomes not worth the risks of giving the mafia a list of who to target to build something that benefits them.
In the meantime the cop can investigate, Tim can investigate, you can steal items from those within that pool. We'd be at such an advantage dude.
again, not necessarily, it depends on what the maf PRs are and what the maf can build.
Also obviously we wouldn't know at the time but if you genuinely aren't mafia (therefore a townie or more likely a 3rd party) then mafia DO NOT have a thief role. Nobody other than your targets have had their items stolen. So unless you just slipped why are you factoring in a thief role into the mafia's prs?
already spoken about this above
OK but we know they don't have any of those or at the very least haven't used them (tho this is incredibly unlikely).
except we don't. there could easily be a blocker. there could easily be a driver who hasnt targetted a night PR yet. there could easily be the day item thief i spoke about.
So there are 11 players, let's assume 3 are mafia. We have a cop who has a 3/11 chance starting n0 to identify scum. We have an item observer who can see the name of the items they carry (so if they had a powerful buildable item it would likely be named similarly to yours.), and we have a thief who steals all their items thus identifying them in the process.
Now as you know I'm bad at maths but even I know that's already insane odds for a mafia victory, especially considering a day 0 townie lynch and a night 0 townie kill.
Like if you, Tim and Erik are all telling the truth then there's an equal number of investigative roles as there are mafia...
Like what the fuck???
that's already insanely stacked in towns favour... then you incorporate the other pr roles, the lynch loot mechanic and the fact that, as we know, there isn't another night steal/night block(?).
If you are town, it's a free win.
again you're acting like you know what the maf PRs are. if you look at any setup and just look at the town roles it can look townsided because youre not looking at the scum roles that exist to counter them. there are likely maf PRs to counter our roles. youre also acting like the cop, myself and tim will all target the right people at the right time (maf can transfer items to one another dont forget, so whoever is holding items can be changed to the person least suspected, or even given to a townie to frame them, with a plan to take the item back during the day before theyre lynched so that it doesnt get into towns hands after theyre lynched, if the maf
do have an item thief), not get blocked, and be trusted when we reveal information. it's not a "free win" by any means - not necessarily anyway. if it is, we cant be sure of that.
and again, we dont know there isnt another thief, or blocker.
Nor the lack of another night steal.
again, day steal could be possible
and I've refuted all your refutes
if you truly think that then i dont think i can say anything else that will change your mind.
I get my ability from my item too. It's not unreasonable to believe it's a trend and it's certainly not unreasonable to think that a theme or a trend would run through the design of both the mafia and the towns people.
I'm not saying mafia can't have normal pr's but it is pretty damn likely IMO that they will also get something from items whether that be crafting an item or having an active item like a net gun or poison or something thematic.
true your role does that as well, so thats two roles. and i agree its a reasonable assumption that maf may have a role that relies on/links to items as well. however, your point was that its unlikely maf have a blocker, because the maf's roles should link to items, and blocker doesn't. my point is that we clearly don't have a strict theme of 'all PR roles must link to items', because erik doesn't fit that, so its not reasonable to believe its unlikely mafia will have a blocker on the basis that its not a role that links to items.
I'm not hypothesising how a massclaim would or should take place, I'm hypothesising how the game would go if it did and from what we know so far if you're telling the truth it would be an easy win for town due to our 2.5 investigative abilities and our 1.5 protection roles.
again, youre making assumptions about what the maf can/can't do in the event we massclaim. i wont repeat it all again but the possibilities about what maf can do to counter it are written in my posts already.
There is one item thief in the game.
If maf has an item thief then you are their item thief.
not necessarily, again.
this whole argument criticising my massclaim hypothesis is a complete strawman and you know it btw
it was an example toshowcase hwo unbalanced the game would be if it occured. Just because it hasn't/would never doesn't ignore the fact that your role is imbalanced if townsided, proves there is no mafia thief and doesn't fit in with the theme of the other town prs/game.
there's nothing strawman about my argument at all.
i dont understand your point for the second part of this quote. you showed an example of how unbalanced it would be, yes, and i showed how youre making assumptions and that its perfectly possible that it wouldnt be as unbalanced as youre saying it would be.
as far as im concerned ive already refuted your argument that my role is definitely unbalanced if townsided. ive also already explained there could be a mafia thief above, and i have no idea what you mean by not fitting the 'theme' of the other town prs/game?
yeppity yep friend, up until night 3, and then, as i mentioned in this post already, it could easily leave us with 6! ... with 5 of us alive
and your ignoring your role, tim's role, fog's item and my item friend.
except im not since ive addressed why all of our roles can exist as town ones and remain balanced. im not gonna repeat them, my arguments are there if you want to read them.
It's irrelevant and it hurts too much man.
its not irrelevant at all. my read on you is basically dependant on this rn since to me it looks like complete BS, so unless you give me an actual idea of what your 'plan' supposedly was - which is the only way youre going to change mine, and most likely every other townie's mind - im going to end up voting you today.
Hey man I'm salty Tim ruined my plan so tell you what, if you admit to being 3rd party I'll do everything in my power to help you win just to spite him x
"oh hey guys we spent like two weeks invested in this game and then aqua subbed in last minute and threw the game for town because he was salty"
Just because it hasn't/would never occur doesn't mean you can ignore*
still no idea what you meant there.
Unu was dead night 1?
If you mean night 0 that's possible since the interactions a bit scuffed with him choosing someone at day then carrying out the conversation at night. I just find it really hard to believe there isn't a blocked notification or that the host wouldn't reveal this information in the game but would tell you privately upon you asking...
I don't know stranger but I do know alisha and I'd hope she'd know not to do that :// I hate meta shit like this
night 0 isn't a thing in mafia games.
and i mean, you can literally ask stranger this same question in PM yourself?
--
anyways, im done having this argument with you because i think we're just going in circles, and i dont think anything else i say will change your mind on whether its a good idea to massclaim or whether my role is unbalanced or not, if i havent already. if you respond again thats fine but im not gonna respond back because idont want to flood the thread with walls of arguments when ive imo already made my points clear and i still stand by them 100%.
regardless of what your opinion is of whether its ok to massclaim, even if you still disagree with me, ultimately the only thing that matters for the game is whether you think i believe what im saying and think i was doing whats best for town. so try to work that out i guess.
RE my role being unbalanced, i mean, again, dont think i can change your mind with anything i havent said already.
anyway, either explain your plan, and then we can go to a massclaim if it makes any sense at all, or... give up and get lynched i guess? since your excuse of 'ok so my safe doesnt ACTUALLY do what i said it does now that its been made clear i lied... the reason i lied was because of a reason i dont want to say' isnt gonna sway anybody at all
