Blocktopia Mafia Season 4

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JKangaroo

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Clearly you are mistaken, my good man, as there is a large contradiction in your reasoning!
Now, as we have seen, indeed, all of these things have been stated by Dessern...
And yet...
This was all stated under a false lead!
First off, let us clear ourselves of some misconception:
NEW: The Doctor will be told if they successfully save somebody, but the Doctor will not know who targeted the person they saved.
Now, to the common man, it is quite easy to skip over such a detail, especially for those who have played this tricky game of lies, trickery, deceit, and evidence!--- Such as our man, Mr. Jack (Dessern). I for one, did not come across such a statement until your recent findings, and with such, we can decide that it IS possible to not have known this in a sense, and can base other findings. Let us move further to the scene of the crime in which this all has derived from!
Nottykitten creeps along, and sees the two zombies hiding from the Skeleton while arrows are being shot. Nottykitten gets really mad, and then attacks the zombies furiously, causing one to fall over. The Skeleton fires an arrow at the felled zombie, and then darts away.
***
The Zombie gets its face cut up, and realizes that an arrow is in front of its face. Then the zombie realizes something. Something else stopped the arrow from hitting it's face.
***
The two zombies walk out of Sublevel 01, knowing that the kitten saved one of their lives by sacrificing itself. The lone zombie realizes that the cuts on its face will never heal, and will serve as a reminder to never hurt a cute animal.
In these very statements, there is an uncertain air of information we originally could not derive the truth from!
Myself, Mr. Jack, as well as countless others of these fine townsfolk were deceived and believed that as there were no 3rd killings from the disturbed Mafia, and as the sad kitten was the one whom ""saved"" these terrible Zombies from being beating, we could easily assume at first glance that it was indeed the doctor whom saved the selected Mafia Member!

....However!
Our ideas were a misconception of evidence, as it was clearly stated by our great Mayor---
I guess I did not make this coear, probably should have put a little note.

Both the Mafia and the Skeleton targeted Nottykitten.
And as such, we can clearly see why Mr. Jack, if he is truly the doctoral man he states he so very much is, we could strongly assume that he did not know that he would know whether or not the man he targeted would truly be saved, and believed in a sense that I, myself, was one with the Zombies because of this!
This evidence clearly clears up our thoughts on the matter, and as such, all evidence pertaining to these past events are now utterly irrelevant!
Which means my dear Mr. Bonshon...
Your entire argument is now invalid!
And even if Mr. Jack (Dessern) once accused me in the past, he should be innocent of any charges you are claiming because of this!

~The Truth isn't Sweet.~
And with that being said, I tip my Top-Hat to you all.
So let's move on with this case, and look for more evidence that will lead to a capture of our criminal, shall we?
 

JKangaroo

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JKangaroo is this a vote or an accusation, or some other third thing?
It is just a statement pointing out a contradiction of that respectable man, Mr. Bonshon, my good sir'.
I have no interest in placing a vote on an innocent man until he is proven otherwise with legitimate evidence.
I did not state I was laying a vote on any man, nor was that statement emphasized (bolded) in a proper statement.

If I must come to a conclusion on a vote, I would state by the brim of my hat that one of the better courses of action would be to simply not lynch at all this day, as we have no precise or reasonable evidence to derive from.
However, I still stand by that a No Lynch would harm our chances of picking out those deathly Mafia hiding in the shadows from us, and we should at least attempt to find a reasonable target to lynch.

And restating what our man, Mr. Bonshon (Defiant), please do not simply say "No Lynch." It is better that we simply do not place a vote at all until we can come to a good consensus that the majority of us can come to agree on, backed up by some reasonable explanations and evidence.

- So states Monsieur Cromnwell, straightening his tie back into place after that discussion.
 

Defiant_Blob

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Mr. Cromwell, you argue that he did not know this. However, this still changes nothing. After all, who's to say that they aren't told when they don't save anyone? As you see, Mr. Jack's not reading does not mean anything. Even if they are not told, ignorance should hardly be an excuse, as I'm sure Mr. Jack will testify ignorance of the rule.

Even more, you forget, that was only one piece of evidence. Though, you left out the other half of my post.

To begin with, my point of his hints to being a cop have not been countered. Why would he pretend to be the cop? I am under the belief he first chose to act like a cop, but then jumped at the chance to be doctor to avoid suspicion.

Furthermore, it was quite obvious that Nottykitten had been the one who "saved" the zombies. How so? Look at that last paragraph.
The two zombies walk out of Sublevel 01, knowing that the kitten saved one of their lives by sacrificing itself. The lone zombie realizes that the cuts on its face will never heal, and will serve as a reminder to never hurt a cute animal.
From this, it is very easily quite obvious. However, Mr. Jack quickly seized the moment and turned it into something completely different. Fortunately, his plan did not work out as well, and he was forced to change direction.

Thus, Mr. Cromwell, it is shown that my evidence has not been devalued.

I would like to call for Alpha102 , however, to confirm on whether the doctor is informed if they did not save. If they are not informed, I would like to humbly apologize. However, I would also like to have Mr. Cromwell to counter my other points made.

As well, I am awaiting the testimony from Marnixxie and Calico Jack themselves.
Dex Bonshon bows.
 

Alisha

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I believe I'm the one whom owes an apology. I should have made that piece about who targeted Nottykitten clear from the start. For that, I'm sorry.

-The doctor will NOT be informed if they failed to save somebody.
-The doctor IS informed if they successfully saved somebody.
 

Duffie

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Oh gosh, totally forgot about Mafia.

So, it would seem that the most suspicious is Dessern, considering the things he has stated.

Maybe even the one he accused, JK, but still quite unsure.

If no one speaks up to say anything else about anyone else being suspicious, I'll just put my vote on Dessern to speed this up a bit.
 

balloon98

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Oh gosh, totally forgot about Mafia.

So, it would seem that the most suspicious is Dessern, considering the things he has stated.

Maybe even the one he accused, JK, but still quite unsure.

If no one speaks up to say anything else about anyone else being suspicious, I'll just put my vote on Dessern to speed this up a bit.
has to be bolded vote :p
 

JKangaroo

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I kind of have forgotten about this as well due to some other events... (Dragon Age *squeals*)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyhow. I am not a man of revenge. If I was, I would most undoubtedly be siding with Mr. Bonshon in this case, stating the suspicions and casting guilt upon Mr. Jack for his statement that he, with knowledge, knew that I was suspiciously one of the Mafia's devious goons: A zombie. Perhaps I should, seeing as he did start digging a hole of my reputation, but I am not that kind of man. I seek one thing in this game, and that item that I grasp...
Is the Truth!

Mr. Bonshon, you bring up little points that degrade Mr. Jack.
Let us return back to the morning, the eve following the murders in the night.
Mr Jack, after some discussion, stated he had knowledge on whom one of the killers was. He stated I was one of these Mafia's Goons: a Zombie. However, under no circumstance did he ever state he was the cop in any sense. Actually, it was HarmakPaul who stated Mr. Jack claimed to be the cop. However, in the true sense, instead, it was we, in our imaginations, that lead us to believe this, seeing Harmak's claim. Moving on-

Let us look at the evidence taken in a snapshot at the scene of the crime.
The two zombies walk out of Sublevel 01, knowing that the kitten saved one of their lives by sacrificing itself. The lone zombie realizes that the cuts on its face will never heal, and will serve as a reminder to never hurt a cute animal.
You believe that Mr. Jack used today's events as an opportunity in order to jump into the situation of either being the cop, or indeed a fair doctor.
You also state that it was quite obvious that this bloody scene shows us that it was indeed the Kitten whom saved the Mafia's lives. However, is this really true? Is it obvious?

No, this is not true. In fact, myself included, believed this statement in a different light. Who believed it otherwise in fact? Let us see who felt uncertain due to this turn of events:
Vati180, Sploorky, Ms. Duffie, Mr. Theodorre...
These spectators believed in this theory, however, there is only one person however who brought this idea into the conversation before other were to do so, myself being one who was going to state this theory: Perhaps the doctor saved these Mafia goons during the night!
In the oncoming hours, these people also felt unwary due to this, and only after Mr. Jack(Dessern), announced his idea on whom may have been the zombie, many of these townsfolks immediately jumped on board, and felt it was needed to lynch me, due to their ideas that Mr. Jack(Dessern) was the cop.

Now, in your mindset, you believe Mr. Jack changed his cop role into that of the doctors, in order to loose suspicion. However, there was very little in the eyes of Mr. Jack.
And because of this, in his person, admitted he was not the cop, and released his real role, the doctor, in order to clean up our misconceptions of what he actually was. So no, I do not believe that he used this as an opportunity or a "Plan-B" in order to loose suspicion or gain trust. Actually, this very move made his reputation fall.

My resolve that we should not be focusing on Mr. Jack(Dessern) actually was strengthened after our fair Mayor, Alpha102, admitted that it was indeed, both the mysterious skeleton and dreadful Mafia, both targeted this sad Kitten, and his tale had shed some misconceptions on the fact. Mr. Jack, as well as the rest of the towns populace that believed in the theory previously stated, and retracted their statements, realizing their mistaken ideas, and apologized for their mistaken idea set.

So in a sense, we are just as responsible for the recent courses of action, and should also be responsible. You are simply placing all the guilt on a single man, whom may very well be innocent of the crimes being brought before him!

...Now, after mulling over what has been stated so far, and how each person has felt, along with the sort of divide between your views and mine, I feel compelled that the best course of action is a
NO LYNCH.
Let us wait a night, to clear our thoughts of any misconceptions.
Let the investigator target Mr. Jack, and if he is truly one of the Mafia, let him come out with the truth.
The first night will most likely just bring an unjust- and most likely terrible lynch due to lack of any good evidence and knowledge, and so we should wait a few moments to decide on a proper outcome.

Let us look at past events that have had similar experiences to us.
  • During the blight of the city of Molarius (Mafia 2), the towns investigating cop was deemed suspicious and was slain by the town's rashness.
  • The city of Cobule, luckily still with us thanks to some brave townsfolk that stood steadfast together, had a rocky start in these dangerous wars with the underground Mafia. They had decimated, once more, the innocent cop, though in this case, the blame is put on both the townsfolk, and the cop in question, who handled the situation badly.
It would appear we are in a similar circumstance to Cobule's troubles. With such views, I feel in Not lynching one of our townsfolk this evening, more light will be shed in the following days.

~Cromnwell gruffly states, crashing his cane onto the pavement, and tightening the lip of his top hat~ ~against his forehead, eyeing Mr. Bonshon intently.~
 

Defiant_Blob

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I will relent on Mr. Jack's status for now, as I would like Marnixxie to step forward and give his side of the argument.

However, I would like Sploorky and vati180 to explain why they followed Mr. Jack so eagerly with little explanation. You both jumped to lynch so easily.

As well, I would like Dessern5 to stop hiding behind Mr. Cromwell's argument and argue for himself, as it appears he is no longer away.

Furthermore, I will add one more reason as to why I still believe Mr. Jack is not innocent: the lack of posts. Before my arguments upon Mr. Jack, posts flowed easily and freely. However, now they have suddenly stopped and there are not as many posts. Why? Because one of the people in this argument are most likely mafia. Fellow mafia members would not want to side with either argument, as doing so may endanger them in the future if the side they choose fails.

As well, I detest the idea of Mr. Jack becoming innocent by cop investigation. Why? Because if he is truly part of the mafia, the only role he could be is the Godfather (Enderman)! It is only logical, of course. If the Godfather claims to be the doctor, then they need not worry about being investigated by the cop, as they will turn out innocent.
 

JKangaroo

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As well, I detest the idea of Mr. Jack becoming innocent by cop investigation. Why? Because if he is truly part of the mafia, the only role he could be is the Godfather (Enderman)! It is only logical, of course. If the Godfather claims to be the doctor, then they need not worry about being investigated by the cop, as they will turn out innocent.
There is a flaw with that logic.
Of course, at first glance, they will turn out innocent!
If the Godfather does claim to be the doctor, then the cop will still very easily will want to be certain that this man is truly telling what he is claiming.
If that Godfather is investigated and, when investigated, shows that man is truly a civilian, and not, in fact, the doctor he claims to be...

Only then can we safely assume to lynch the man in question!
So even if he is apart of the Mafia, that is no reason not to prevent the cop from investigating him, due to these sets of rules, even they must abide by!
 

Defiant_Blob

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There is a flaw with that logic.
Of course, at first glance, they will turn out innocent!
If the Godfather does claim to be the doctor, then the cop will still very easily will want to be certain that this man is truly telling what he is claiming.
If that Godfather is investigated and, when investigated, shows that man is truly a civilian, and not, in fact, the doctor he claims to be...

Only then can we safely assume to lynch the man in question!
So even if he is apart of the Mafia, that is no reason not to prevent the cop from investigating him, due to these sets of rules, even they must abide by!
My mistake. I am still used to Prizym's mafia rules so that cop is only revealed the side the player is on, and thought that Alpha had taken my suggestion.


Then I will retract my vote until Marnixxie says something. Depending upon any information added, I will decide completely.
 

Theodorre

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After watching these posts and accusations fly backwards and forwards for some time, I've decided on who I'm going to vote for.

At the beginning of the game, Dessern5 accused JKangaroo of being a member of the mafia. After a wave of posts, Dessern changed his decision. But then he himself was accused. When that happened, JK defended Dess against every one of those posts accusing him to be a member of the mafia. Maybe JK was trying to heroically save an innocent player. Or maybe he was trying to stop one of his fellow Mafiamen from being lynched.

My reasoning



Dessern5 could have deliberately targeted JKangaroo so people wouldn't suspect them of being on the same team. But things started to go wrong for them when people began to suspect Dessern himself. At that point, JKangaroo saw that one of his teammates was under threat. So, he frantically began to defend Dess, so lynching would not arise.

It is because of this reasoning that I have decided to vote to lynch JKangaroo.
 
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After watching these posts and accusations fly backwards and forwards for some time, I've decided on who I'm going to vote for.

At the beginning of the game, Dessern5 accused JKangaroo of being a member of the mafia. After a wave of posts, Dessern changed his decision. But then he himself was accused. When that happened, JK defended Dess against every one of those posts accusing him to be a member of the mafia. Maybe JK was trying to heroically save an innocent player. Or maybe he was trying to stop one of his fellow Mafiamen from being lynched.

My reasoning



Dessern5 could have deliberately targeted JKangaroo so people wouldn't suspect them of being on the same team. But things started to go wrong for them when people began to suspect Dessern himself. At that point, JKangaroo saw that one of his teammates was under threat. So, he frantically began to defend Dess, so lynching would not arise.

It is because of this reasoning that I have decided to vote to lynch JKangaroo.
I vote Dessern, I belive there is some merit to this accuastion but JK is simply to good to waste, I doubt he would let himself get involved in a team up so early in the game but if he just got sloppy than it is possible. If they are both mafia than we can hang JK later but I belive we should start with the lesser player in case they are both innocent. Even if dessern is truly the doc, I would rather have someone good at investigating and arguing.... if for no other reason than to keep the game moving
 

JKangaroo

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After watching these posts and accusations fly backwards and forwards for some time, I've decided on who I'm going to vote for.

At the beginning of the game, Dessern5 accused JKangaroo of being a member of the mafia. After a wave of posts, Dessern changed his decision. But then he himself was accused. When that happened, JK defended Dess against every one of those posts accusing him to be a member of the mafia. Maybe JK was trying to heroically save an innocent player. Or maybe he was trying to stop one of his fellow Mafiamen from being lynched.

My reasoning



Dessern5 could have deliberately targeted JKangaroo so people wouldn't suspect them of being on the same team. But things started to go wrong for them when people began to suspect Dessern himself. At that point, JKangaroo saw that one of his teammates was under threat. So, he frantically began to defend Dess, so lynching would not arise.

It is because of this reasoning that I have decided to vote to lynch JKangaroo.
Why do I get the feeling you took this reasoning from... perhaps Mafia Lite v1? :p

Anyhow, I do not believe this line of reasoning is perfect in very much essence, and thought it was kind of resolved earlier in previous posts, primarily due to the debate between Defaint and myself, but as well as the actions of others, including yourself, Mr. theodorre, who almost went along with Mr. Dessern's theory. As well as the Misters, Vati and Sploorky, who appeared to bandwaggon at the chance to lynch me.

Should we return to the lines of events that brought us here?
1) Dessern's theory of the doctor saving the zombie, due to some mistaken circumstances that occurred the previous night.
2) Dessern's accusation of my personal being, and the grouping of other players to lynch me.
3) Alpha's restating and clearing up any misconceptions due to his story-line going over the previous night's events.
4) Following Dessern's, as well as the townsfolk's retraction of their statements, and apologies due to a false lead.

Does it appear that anything is going wrong up to this point? For me it does, as I was the primary target. However, again, this line of reasoning was quickly neutralized due to Alpha's comment, so balance was regained in this deceitful game we so call "Mafia." After this, there were at a stalemate, as we were uncertain what process or line of thinking we should follow, or if we should lynch a townsperson at all. I see nothing here that puts us both in the same category of players, i.e. the Mafia.

Shall we continue with the events?
5) We discussed some things about real life Mafia, and possible Mafia killing due to playing on the same server.
6) Marn votes for Dessern, with no evidence or argument to be seen yet!
7) It is here that Defaint states there is something "off" with Dessern's argument, and proceeds to give some of his ideas on the matter.
8) We battle, rebutted against each other's arguments, and etc.
9) Here, in our present situation.

It is only recently, that this idea that Dessern is apart of the Mafia as sprung up. In fact, it was suggested by Mr. Bonshon, if not the hippo, Marnixxie himself if he had discussed his line of reasoning before the blobby-Mr. Bonshon.

Acutally, I want to bring something up seeing the timeline on what has passed.
Please do not vote No lynch yet. Something about Dessern's argument is off, and I'd like to validate the details when I get to a computer.
What argument exactly? Dessern has not conceived any ideas as of late, primarily because of Alpha's statement clearing up the affairs. Actually, Dessern, from what I have seen in the statements he's made, simply explained how he came to the consensus that I was one of the Mafia, but knew he was wrong due to Alpha's explanation.

Because of this, why would I need to desperately defend Mr. Jack(Dessern), if in actuality, there was nothing to use against him after these occurrences with Alpha cleaned up? I also do not see how I am tied into a team with Mr. Jack.
Infact, he, and I should have actually seen this quote beforehand, as it does, in my opinion, clear a moderate amount of this man's name.
If I was correct, and I am still hoping I was; I was, and still am, defending an innocent man.

I will remain in a NO LYNCH vote and state until evidence can sway me otherwise.
With that in mind, I will be looking forward to Marnixxie 's argument that Dessern should be the one to be lynched off with bated breath, for then I may change my voting decision, or remain with the prospect I have chosen for now.
~With such, Cromnwell bows, tipping his hat.~

In such
 

JKangaroo

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Why is there an extra "In such" at the end of my post. .__. (*runs in fear of a ghost AND not being able to edit my post! ;-;*)

Also:
It was bad for the Doctor to reveal his role (if it's true) or he could be taking an extra hit to save someone else from the Mafia. Hopefully the latter, as that would actually be quite smart, forgot if there can be 2 doctors and if there can be, we better dream that it's true (and 2ndpossibledoctor please keep ye role secret unless under serious defending conditions) x3.

And for my story I'll probably be sitting on my bed in Cow Ranch drinking some milk and eating some cookies. (yay for creativity)
-Role List-
Town
1 Cop
1 Doctor
1 Vigilante
2 Iron Golems
8 Civilians
Mafia
1 Enderman
4 Zombies
3rd Party
1 Skeleton
1 Lyncher
"ehem"
 
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