Tavern Arcana - Mafia Win

Aqua

Does anybody remember laughter?
Mafia Host
Joined
Mar 29, 2015
Messages
640
Reaction score
2,808
Have we not been referring to those as the same thing
Well no the name of the card doesn't give us anything other than incite towards the theory that bad tarot cards = anti town alignment. So in this case, Ender is heavily defending notty who is the tower a "fuck everything and everyone" card . So if we find out he is the devil card for example it would suggest they are both scum and that the cards do = alignment. (From inf we can gather that it definitely is possible as he was the hermit a card which sounds like a 3p and was a 3p).

His role on the other hand would be whether he was a cop, blocker etc.
 

ChocoFox

Member
Mafia Host
Joined
May 10, 2014
Messages
88
Reaction score
343
I've been watching this thread for a while.

Going to point out four things:

1. I'm very surprised Mafia would get rid of Inffy. It was quite obvious at the end of day zero after Inffy claimed Hermit that he was third-party. What I'm trying to say here is, I'm confused why Mafia would kill someone who's already suspicious and adding chaos into the game when chaos would actually be in their favour. I hope I'm not overthinking it, but whatever it is, it seems to me that there's some motive behind it. Either that or there's some other party which killed him to begin with. The latter possibility I cannot substantiate or overrule because I have no information.

2. Notty also didn't die N1. I'm still pretty suspicious of her, not to mention now that from the two people who have died we can more or less affirm that alignment is based off on tarot card readings (I.e. Emperor was Town and Hermit was Third-party). So pretty much at this point given how negative Notty's card implies I would say its still best to vote her.

3. I'm don't know what's going on with this "Choco lynch" thing, but I'm going to set my boundaries right now. Assuming that there are at most seven people who are Mafia, and since it takes eleven votes to lynch, nine is going to be my tipping point for me to claim my role. But of course I don't hope that will happen.

4. Can we not base our lynches off previous games? Extrapolating games from one end to the other just seems pointless and I think it'd be more beneficial for town to just use the current information available. This is probably going to make me sound really scummy, and could even get lynch votes, but I just have to put this out here.

P.S. I still feel that Notty is Mafia or third-party, leaning towards Mafia. There's a lot of stuff going on now, and I'm still sort of confused. But logically speaking I think I can slightly trust Aqua and maybe Danni the most?
 

Danni122112

The Drunk
Controller
Moderator
Donor
AoD Staff
Survival Staff
Joined
Nov 21, 2011
Messages
2,318
Reaction score
3,278
?????? This literally applies to both me and choco, who you claim are mafia.

Which is why a notty lynch should be WAAY more valuable to you, as we suspect she's not mafia but an anti town 3p, possibly a SK role.
I am pretty sure neither you or choco have claimed a high pr role.

You are being obnoxious in the way you are typing, not responding to arguments, which I find makes it hard to discuss things in a constructive manner, meaning I value you less as a player.

choco is inactive, doesnt seem to be much use for us.


main reason is that, nottys event thing, if true, could be a very important thing for the town. I dont want to lose that. Neither you or choco have claimed anything important, AFAIK


I think pressuring choco to see what he has to say could be useful.


I am still unsure wether notty is mafia or not, I wont bother discussing it, since it aint going anywhere, but there are several elements to her story that makes me believe it a bit.
 

Aqua

Does anybody remember laughter?
Mafia Host
Joined
Mar 29, 2015
Messages
640
Reaction score
2,808
You are being obnoxious in the way you are typing, not responding to arguments, which I find makes it hard to discuss things in a constructive manner, meaning I value you less as a player.
I'll admit I was memeing you earlier but that's because your points were lacking in any real substance and had already been discussed in day 0

I think pressuring choco to see what he has to say could be useful.
True, but once again that can be carried out tomorrow, we have far more to go on Notty than Choco so the night would give more information on many things.

Likewise a notty lynch would also give us confirmation on the card alignment theory.
I am still unsure wether notty is mafia or not, I wont bother discussing it, since it aint going anywhere, but there are several elements to her story that makes me believe it a bit.
Notty's likely not mafia, she's probably 3p.
I am pretty sure neither you or choco have claimed a high pr role.
I am not. But go back and read Notty's claim and tell me if that doesn't seem too perfect to fit her situation, not too important but important enough to be a loss to town. Improves later in the game to prevent lynch. Niche enough to not be CC'd. and it took her 12 hours to release it which could have easily been used to create it.
 

Danni122112

The Drunk
Controller
Moderator
Donor
AoD Staff
Survival Staff
Joined
Nov 21, 2011
Messages
2,318
Reaction score
3,278
1. I'm very surprised Mafia would get rid of Inffy. It was quite obvious at the end of day zero after Inffy claimed Hermit that he was third-party. What I'm trying to say here is, I'm confused why Mafia would kill someone who's already suspicious and adding chaos into the game when chaos would actually be in their favour. I hope I'm not overthinking it, but whatever it is, it seems to me that there's some motive behind it. Either that or there's some other party which killed him to begin with. The latter possibility I cannot substantiate or overrule because I have no information.
I also found this weird, the most possible solution I could see to this, is that notty is mafia, figured they were dead either way, and wanted to get rid of someone that would be valuable to town, even though inffy dying after they arguing would be really suspicous, but mafia went, hey, fuck it.

Another solution, is that the mafia wanted to get rid of inffy, as he seemed to want to help town as a third party, similar to me, and they figured that killing him would throw a lot of supicion on (innocent) notty.

I did not bother discussing this much, as the bandawagon for notty seemed too strong to derail, even with stuff we concider here. I do really like looking into lynches though.

The HK lynch was an obvious one, strong town role that outed.
2. Notty also didn't die N1. I'm still pretty suspicious of her, not to mention now that from the two people who have died we can more or less affirm that alignment is based off on tarot card readings (I.e. Emperor was Town and Hermit was Third-party). So pretty much at this point given how negative Notty's card implies I would say its still best to vote her.
I would say yes, for any other tarrot card. We do not know the extent of the towers, it symbolizes change, but a destructive change. Having her card saying changes that happen, as a town sided, is not too far out in the woods. If it was the devil, sure.
Notty not dying n1 could be because they only have 2 kills (I am assuming mafia were both kills, or mafia/vig) and they prioritized Inffy, hoping we would kill notty. If notty is innocent, I could easily see her dying n1 and n2, but it could also be that they think we will lynch her, or maybe they just like the confusion.

And of course, it can be as I said in the first thing above, notty is maf, no point killing maf.


3. I'm don't know what's going on with this "Choco lynch" thing, but I'm going to set my boundaries right now. Assuming that there are at most seven people who are Mafia, and since it takes eleven votes to lynch, nine is going to be my tipping point for me to claim my role. But of course I don't hope that will happen.
This comes from one post you made, which several people called scummy. After that, you have as far as I can tell, been completely silent. Not responding is not good.
4. Can we not base our lynches off previous games? Extrapolating games from one end to the other just seems pointless and I think it'd be more beneficial for town to just use the current information available. This is probably going to make me sound really scummy, and could even get lynch votes, but I just have to put this out here.
Mostly agree, but sometimes its relevant information, that are available to be checked up.

P.S. I still feel that Notty is Mafia or third-party, leaning towards Mafia. There's a lot of stuff going on now, and I'm still sort of confused. But logically speaking I think I can slightly trust Aqua and maybe Danni the most?
I am feeling about the same (except the part where you colored my name red to make me seem scum.), I think aqua is playing the game annoyingly and badly, but I dont neccesarily think he is wrong about notty.

I still want to lynch notty tomorrow, not today. You will notice that I am not saying that notty is innocent, however, its important to not tunnel vission on one thing, and concider different options.

As I stated early in the day, if we can not find, or agree on a better option, by all means, lynch notty. I have said this from pretty early on in the day; I think it would be stupid to end the day straight away without exploring both notty, and other people deeper. It seems we are at a standstill with notty, no more discussion there.

Which leads us to other lynch targets, current suggested are as far as I can tell, mostly you choco, and aqua, I would have been happy with lynching you, but your post is very well written, and makes sense. I honestly think aqua is some town role, with at least a semi important ability, so I am running out of options of other people we can lynch.

I wont be leading any campaignes for other lynches. Neither you or Aqua will gain traction. I still think its stupid to lynch notty today, when we can tomorrow, but a no lynch would be even more stupid.

If anyone has any other people to suggest, go ahead.

Notty you should probably be more active if you dont want to die.

For now, I dont see anything else we can agree on than killing notty, sadly.

Retract vote
 

Danni122112

The Drunk
Controller
Moderator
Donor
AoD Staff
Survival Staff
Joined
Nov 21, 2011
Messages
2,318
Reaction score
3,278
I'll admit I was memeing you earlier but that's because your points were lacking in any real substance and had already been discussed in day 0
I disagree.
True, but once again that can be carried out tomorrow, we have far more to go on Notty than Choco so the night would give more information on many things.

Likewise a notty lynch would also give us confirmation on the card alignment theory.
choco is no longer dead, and made a decent post, explained in my own a bit, I dont thin pursuing him today will lead anywhere.

Notty's likely not mafia, she's probably 3p.
I have been an idiot, and not concidered this enough literally at all, this can be a pretty solid option.

One interesting thing about this game, is that a lot of the tarrot cards are great start points for third party roles, so we could have more 3p than usual.

I am not. But go back and read Notty's claim and tell me if that doesn't seem too perfect to fit her situation, not too important but important enough to be a loss to town. Improves later in the game to prevent lynch. Niche enough to not be CC'd. and it took her 12 hours to release it which could have easily been used to create it.
we wont get anywhere discussing nottys claim.
 

ChocoFox

Member
Mafia Host
Joined
May 10, 2014
Messages
88
Reaction score
343
I still want to lynch notty tomorrow, not today. You will notice that I am not saying that notty is innocent, however, its important to not tunnel vission on one thing, and concider different options.

As I stated early in the day, if we can not find, or agree on a better option, by all means, lynch notty. I have said this from pretty early on in the day; I think it would be stupid to end the day straight away without exploring both notty, and other people deeper. It seems we are at a standstill with notty, no more discussion there.
Your other option will be to lynch me. And of course I already set my boundaries in numbers. Nine votes and I'll reveal my role. I don't know if it'll be detrimental or not, but I'm willing to risk it?

Right now lynching Notty/myself seems like the best option because there's just no information elsewhere and there's already sufficient bandwagon tide to wash either of us over.
 

Roobarb Pie

Geezuslike
Donor
Contributor
Joined
Aug 6, 2011
Messages
689
Reaction score
1,148
Your other option will be to lynch me. And of course I already set my boundaries in numbers. Nine votes and I'll reveal my role. I don't know if it'll be detrimental or not, but I'm willing to risk it?

Right now lynching Notty/myself seems like the best option because there's just no information elsewhere and there's already sufficient bandwagon tide to wash either of us over.
I'm sure we'd be able to verify your role claim. I guess we should get another card name out in to the open.

Vote Chocofox

I'll repeal this vote when you reveal your role.
 

One one two

Per aspera ad astra
Donor
Joined
Aug 30, 2011
Messages
194
Reaction score
324
Really unfortunate we lost HK as it seems he was an important town power role. Unfortunately I was only able to read up to page 26 of day 0. (really, this was the same argument happening again and again but each time it happened it was inffy arguing with a different person who brought up an ever so subtly different point. based on the first 26 pages I'm suspicious of hipman because he hasn't been contributing at all.

I'm really confused as to why inffy was playing the way he was. He was insanely active in scumhunting as a survivor, like he could've toned it down a bit and he probably would've upped his chances of winning by 1000%. Really not sure why he chose to put himself on the front line like that on day 0 as a survivor. The only thing I can think of is that he was planning to win with the town, which I don't think playing that actively was his best decision, but whatever.

My current suspicions so far have been Hipman and Notty, but it seems hip has been confirmed empress (although, I'm not sure if we can confirm if that's a town aligned card or not).

Since I'm still not caught up I was planning to just consider day 0 a lost cause, but since people are aiming for a notty lynch I guess it's required reading for me to go back and finish the last 15 pages so I can decide if she's suspicious or not.

Is it that you can't vote or that ChocoFox cannot be voted for. Let me test this real quick. I don't see Choco as suspicious at this time, but just want to see if the vote works.

ChocoFox
Most of this posts reads like it's coming from a mafia perspective. Maybe I'm being petty, but I don't like how you immediately note that HK was a good power role and question inffy's play, which albeit was a good critique was only something a mafia would really care about.
 

erik5456

Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2013
Messages
34
Reaction score
185
OK I'm finally all caught up and wanted to share opinion on a few things:

Notty - At this point I feel like it's super hard to actually make an easy call or decision on Notty. Reason being is that either we lynch a town PR that could be significant (after having already lost our "mayor"), we lynch a mafia (which is our best case scenario), we lynch a 3p (2nd best case), or Notty is actually a fool and the lynch would give them the win. The last possibility seems like a stretch ya, but considering the fact that there's literally a card titled "The Fool". I think we can consider it a possibility especially with some of the things done/said. I always hate giving a 3p the win (I've explained this before and I'll do so again if need be) but if it comes down to we need a lynch, Notty should be our final sort of "backup" option IMO.

Choco - When they were mentioning massclaim and then staying super silent they seemed decently suspicious. Now, I think the explanation decently clears them. Especially agree with the 4th point since I feel like mafia should be more based on looking at peoples general behaviour and mistakes rather then comparing to previous games (although it's useful info sometimes, other times you got people like me who have no idea why we should suddenly bandwagon someone based on what they've supposedly done like 5 games ago). I still think there's a few sus things being said/done (like seeming sure that mafia got rid on Infy when I think it's possible we have a 3p killing role or vigilante) so I'd be up for learning their card.

Aqua - Man I swear Aqua always has the secret role and mad train driver who memes a lil too much and sometimes posts dumb stuff xd. But serious townie vibes from him. If anything, I feel like Aqua's the only other confirmed townie I can trust ATM.

Hipman - Someone brought up the idea of the empress being sort of the mafia sided "mayor" when the emperor dies. I don't think this is too terrible of a theory, kinda like the emperor finally getting out of the way and the empress rising to power. There's also the fact that an upside down empress represents difficulty in harmonizing with people and feeling an imbalance so it's something I just think people should keep in consideration.

Ender - Notty defense seems a little weird but at the same time I appreciate Ender's caution as to not just straight out tunnel vision Notty like some other people seemed to want to. Plus I sort of feel like he's also seeing similar possiblities of lynching Notty (correct me if I'm wrong). If Notty does flip mafia though, I think Ender should be the next person to be interrogated and considered as mafia.


I really dislike the idea of pressuring someone to the point where they could be hammered into a lynch, but if Choco will only reveal role at 9 votes then

vote Choco
 
G

Guest35486

Guest
[BCOLOR=transparent]Day 1 - Vote Count[/BCOLOR]
[BCOLOR=transparent]Unusual_Dood (1): Unusual_Dood[/BCOLOR]
[BCOLOR=transparent]Aqua (2): Enderfive, Nottykitten[/BCOLOR]
[BCOLOR=transparent]Nottykitten (6): Ooglie101, Aqua, ChocoFox, Unusual_Dood, hipman500(x2)[/BCOLOR]
[BCOLOR=transparent]ChocoFox (3): myusername22, Roobarb Pie, erik5456[/BCOLOR]

[BCOLOR=transparent]With 21 players alive, it takes 11 players to lynch and 11 players to no lynch.[/BCOLOR]
[BCOLOR=transparent]If the required vote amount is not reached by the deadline, the player with the most votes will be lynched.[/BCOLOR]
 

Jivvi

Member
Mafia Host
Joined
Jun 9, 2012
Messages
2,769
Reaction score
4,596
From that stand point I see ABSOLUTELY NO REASON TO NOT WAIT TIL TOMORROW WITH LYNCHING NOTTY.
i completely disagree because i'm worried she's some kind of arsonist-type role
double worried cause if she's a textbook arsonist role she can easily 'predict' everyone getting immolated at once

she's acting like she usually acts
i also disagree with this because as other people have pointed out she has been playing a lot more defensively than usual


aqua's pretty scummy (mostly cause of the blatant tunnel vision) but he seems to be playing how he usually does to me, plus nobody has cc'd justice yet (although to be perfectly fair if justice = cop and aqua is lying the real cop may consider it too early to safely claim, especially if they only have an inno report).

on the other hand, i have a few issues with notty:

based off what's happened so far this game's main gimmicks seem to be the tarot theme and the voting shenanigans. i really don't think there's room for big wacky events that we are told nothing about until after day 1. you could argue otherwise, but if nothing has happened before tomorrow i'd say that's the point where you lynch her based of this point alone.

if her claim is legit, it doesn't seem that good. for the disaster to be bad enough to make predicting it "one of the most powerful information PRs", it would either have to be one massive thing or regular small things. no news to report today has to mean nothing is going to happen tonight or tomorrow, ruling out multiple, intermittent events. i also have doubts about the other option, given that randomly getting nuked midgame with only a single PR getting informed seems like a terrible mechanic to include. you're assuming that they'll survive and town will believe them. if one of those things doesn't happen, town randomly gets hit with "big scary unnamed disaster" out of the blue and no one is happy.


i'm also much more comfortable, in a vacuum, lynching the tower over justice, based on the fairly close thematic ties we've seen between the two dead roles and their associated cards.

gonna go with a tentative notty vote cause as of right now i think it's the safest bet. i'm still going to go back and have a closer look at aqua too, though

vote nottykitten
 
Top