Trouble in the West: Pirates vs Cowboys [Finished]
- Thread starter Prizyms
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I'm quite confused here. Hype was oracle last season right? It was a town-sided role?Well, I didn't really believe Hype at first.
I didn't quite believe him because... Well, previous game experience, I guess. (Sorry Hype. xD)
GmK
International Man Of Cake
That's what I mean, I have no idea what that reply got to do with the fact of saying that somebody dousing people in frigging gasoline "might potentially be an issue for the town"
Oak Milk
Kill Hungry Thirsty Dead
Either way I'm distrustful of Duffie at the moment, his last couple of posts have presented very little to no real information and he seems to be trying to avoid scrutiny at all costs. Until I see a hint that I'm wrong
vote Duffie
vote Duffie
JKangaroo
Your Local, Neighborhood Marsupial
Let's start with those questions, as they lead nicely into my opinion on possible mafia/lynch:
Who do you think is least suspicious?
-In my opinion, from the discussions over the past few Mafia days, I feel I can believe, at this point in time, that Digitalmez, Hypeburst, Swate, and Jeercrul, and to an extant Oak, are more "town" than others, at least in my opinion.
I never liked the arguments behind voting Oak, Fiesta, or Swate; they all seemed incredibly silly and made no sense, and it always felt like people were just "going with it" and jumping on the bandwagon with them without really looking into the actual argument made against them, which were always shallow and lacked strong convincing evidence.
We had the bandwagon with Oak led by people like GmK and Sploorky primarily over the so called "slip-up" that involved the "Mafia can't talk to each other" which was explicitly made by Prizyms in his game-starting post, though that bandwagon was quickly quelled by his defense.(Which some parts I still find arguable but I stated all of those issues in a previous post x) )
Fiesta and Swate, in my opinion, are in the same boat, where I feel people are basically blowing out of proportion the supposed "guilt/anti-town"-ness that they "have," which up to this point, I've never really understood.
The biggest evidence I could find from reading back through all the pages was his posts on "getting people to say if they got any items," which was one of the main issues against him at the time. This argument, in my opinion (and I said it before in a previous posting) felt really weak, especially, in my mind, basically said the exact same thing as what Jivvi was recommending, except with more words, and then a rewording to make it expand to "all items." (though he did say that people should announce when they should/needed to and didn't need to say it, again, JUST AS JIVVI SAID)
And then everyone jumped on the bandwagon on him at the end of the day... again... over what, exactly? I don't even know.
Not voting Swate just yet, because again, I feel he's in the same boat as Fiesta.
The only argument I saw against Swate besides other players jumping to, again, bandwagon him, was Endersteve's statement of a supposed "slip-up" about Mafia resources, though it was really just a joke in a reply to Jivvi which was a reply to Fiesta saying that his idea of "Mafia can pick off the Inn members 1 by 1 due to their spokespeople" was a bad idea and a waste of the Mafia's time.
Besides that, there was the cop-out of "pirate-like actions" (similar to Fiesta with some like the Vigilante talk I believe on Day 0 but even then that didn't make much sense), and I haven't really seen any real explanation's besides this on people's suspicions on Swate, so in my mind, I just can't accept a lynch on him without real evidence.
I can safely say I trust Hype(and sort of digi though her arguments kind of fizzled out after awhile) especially over yesterday's events.
Jivvi, in my opinion, had the most concrete argument against him, but I feel people were too blinded by the bandwagon against Fiesta to really read back and actually see all of the very strange, unreasonable, and never really made sense over the course of Day 1. (claiming right after Oak, claiming for no reason, unnecessary attention to himself in both the claim, and in statements beforehand such as the "Mafia missed their chance to kill me" nonsense, and such stated multiple times but was generally ignored).
And though I couldn't be there to support Hype in (what I felt) was the most convincing lynch (though it ended up being wrong anyways) due to graduations+exams, I still feel like that the fighting to vote Jivvi (again, a vote I believe, and still do, to have been the more reasonable vote (but again, that's just me) makes him more credible in my eyes.
And frankly, with both Hype and Digi, (and Jeer to some extent since Jeer also voted Jivvi initially, but unvoted along the way) pushing for Jivvi yesterday, I feel like I can trust them moreso, especially with the death of Jivvi last night.
What? You must be thinking that, because why would I think the people pushing for the death of Jivvi (the cop) make them more credible?!!?...
...Well, that should be obvious. For starters, no one ever knew he was a cop. Sure, the Mad Mike thing was a good idea, but it had too many flaws in it and made little sense from basically everything Jivvi said until the end of the day.
Before we knew Jivvi was a cop, basically the only people who didn't believe Jivvi was me, Hype, and sort of digi (I don't really know because it kept seeing like digi was switching from not believing Jivvi to saying he was third-party bomb to... I don't even know) and basically no one else. Why, for goodness sake, would, those voting Jivvi kill him this night, when it would OBVIOUSLY PUT SOME SUSPICION ON THEM?!? Frankly, it doesn't make much sense to do that.
But, that leads nicely into my suspicions, because I hold something similar to what Oak posted.
This is why my suspicions fall in a similar line as Oaks, because... well... both were essentially BANDWAGONS!!!... and with very similar people voting on both (and basically all) occasions.
I'm less inclined to vote for players toward the end of the lynch, ex: Duffie and coolio, because voting toward the end of a lynch is generally more suspicious in most games (normally with the idea that the Mafia are trying to quickly "off" somebody, and thus are generally the last to vote), and with the majority of the players here being reasonably skilled, I wouldn't count on that idea, and thus I'm less inclined to vote some of the last voters.
(Though I have no idea about that lynch with GmK on Duffie, because it just seems... well... dumb? I guess? I don't understand the vote, it doesn't really make a lot of sense... at all, really, at least as far as I can see.)
Personally I'm more suspicious of either Sploorky (well, std now I guess), 77, tim, or Ooglie, but those are just hunches in terms of those people who voted Fiesta/random votes/whatever (I mean, tim, Oog, and if memory serves, 77 too, never really gave any explanation at all for their votes, which just continued the bandwagon... or started; they did vote right after Prizyms said there was a deadline). Can't say about std because it was just a feeling on the arguments made by Sploorky, but he's not here anymore so I can't say much on him anymore x)
But that's just my opinion.
But personally, I think we should be focusing on those in the bandwagons...
Actually no, I think it's more present that we focus on those starting the bandwagons. Because in my opinion (I've been saying that a lot, haven't I? ._.) All of these bandwagons have started over virtually NOTHING, and those starting them as well as those going along with them seem the most suspicious to me.
Enderfive
sarcasm incarnate
@JKangaroo In the defense of my argument against Swate, you're blindly ignoring everything else I said about him and are focusing on one small minor detail. I found the actual behaviour much more suspicious, but since people seem to be so fond of slips this game, I figured I might as well add it to the argument.
GmK
International Man Of Cake
@JKangaroo In the defense of my argument against OMO, he himself admitted to purposefully play scummy in order to get people to vote for him. I always maintained that I voted him exactly for that: Scummy play (contradicitons, unresolved statements, etc), not for the D0 slipup. I still have no idea why the others followed me. It just showed that both OMO and I are good players: He was good in pretending to be scum (assuming the claim is real) and I am good in hunting scum, since I noticed his tells.
You also do make it easy for yourself in saying "No scum would vote for Jivvi, only to actually kill them" and by that proving some people innocent in your eyes. That's the same phoney psychology that we all use when trying to hunt for scum ^^
You also do make it easy for yourself in saying "No scum would vote for Jivvi, only to actually kill them" and by that proving some people innocent in your eyes. That's the same phoney psychology that we all use when trying to hunt for scum ^^
JKangaroo
Your Local, Neighborhood Marsupial
I'm not blindly ignoring anything.
I've said many times in previous posts that I haven't understood the accusations/suspicions against Swate, despite reading back over his posts, and have asked for an explanation, which never really occurred.
And it wasn't much of a "focus," it was simply a statement of the only "argument" that I could find from my reading back over the past day, because again, I didn't find anything that really made me "think" Swate had any anti-town slip ups or "actions."
If you would like to explain these things that you have "said," then please do, because I haven't seen anyone really explain suspicions on Swate besides that one post I mentioned.
Enderfive
sarcasm incarnate
@JKangaroo
I'm rather sure I explained this further in following posts as well. There was literally no hard evidence to go on that day, so I took the most suspicious looking fellow and cast my vote. Since nobody really presented anything better (yes, Jivvi was suspicious as well and about as suspicious as Swate, but I had a gut feeling Jivvi was town and Swate was not.), I stayed true to my own suspicion.
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