Trouble in the West: Pirates vs Cowboys [Finished]

[cooliorules]

"Why would someone vote Jivvi then kill them?!"

Everyone has in their head that if the person someone votes during the day is dead the next morning, that the person who voted them isn't mafia because it would be too obvious. Let's look at the other side of the argument. What if they're trying to play it like that, hoping that it would be TOO obvious, so they're innocent.

 

[cooliorules]

Off to bed shortly.

 

[Samlen]

I'm not blindly ignoring anything.
I've said many times in previous posts that I haven't understood the accusations/suspicions against Swate, despite reading back over his posts, and have asked for an explanation, which never really occurred.
And it wasn't much of a "focus," it was simply a statement of the only "argument" that I could find from my reading back over the past day, because again, I didn't find anything that really made me "think" Swate had any anti-town slip ups or "actions."
If you would like to explain these things that you have "said," then please do, because I haven't seen anyone really explain suspicions on Swate besides that one post I mentioned.

In my mind, Swate is suspicious due to his behavior, he jumped around a ton with his votes and was/is one of the most bandwagony people we have in the game. On top of that, he rarely gave any logical reasoning for his voting. There wasn't a lot of what he said that made sense, and now he's managed to slip under the radar mostly by being trying to be helpful/funny after his initial randomness, which if you want to look at previous games, he acted almost exactly the same in his previous game, where he turned out Mafia. If anything, he seemed to have a more 'nervous' tinge to his playstyle this game. It wasn't so much as any bit of 'evidence', (Which we've seen where all of our 'real' evidence got us the past two days) but more so his playstyle that makes me think he's Mafia. I'm sticking with my suspicion on him until I find someone whom actually seems more suspicious (in my eyes).

 

[Enderfive]

"Why would someone vote Jivvi then kill them?!"

Everyone has in their head that if the person someone votes during the day is dead the next morning, that the person who voted them isn't mafia because it would be too obvious. Let's look at the other side of the argument. What if they're trying to play it like that, hoping that it would be TOO obvious, so they're innocent.

Or it could also be everyone is just over-thinking it and thinking that the mafia is that acreful with who they vote during the day. Which could mean that they don't think about how obvious it would be and vote as the last anyway.

I've been anti-town enough times to know that sometimes, not thinking enough about your votes goes unpunished in surprisingly many cases.

 

[Mooglie]

So, here I go.

Two nights ago after performing my night action I was informed that I received a Cursed Tome (the two events are not connected) and that I could hand it to another person... in my inn.
Boom, I'm in an inn. The Small Crappy Saloon, the same one as both Jivvi and Fiesta (the cop and a townie, both innocent) however there is another member who I do feel is scum.

Also, before I go on about my last point I'll say something that happened last night which is a real bummer and hurts me deeply (i dislike you whoever did this to me ;~; ) but my night actions are delayed (only the result of the action is delayed, not the actual performance of the action) since the death of Donut Dan hurt me dearly. Also, nice touch, all names so far have alliteration.

Now, since I know it'd be of help if I said some of the things that Jivvi and Mr/Mrs. Mystery (NOTE I DO KNOW THE IDENTITY OF THIS PERSON BUT AM NOT SURE WHETHER I SHOULD SAY IT OR NOT I WOULD LIKE JUDGEMENT ON THAT) said on Night 2 but since I can only paraphrase it goes like this

I make a big post about the cursed tome and what should happen if I do die whilst holding it (I passed the item onto ?) which includes revealing the other person's identity even though this plan was suit to if I died
? wonders why the night is taking so long along with some other stuff about the cursed tome (claimed it in the inn first since we can only talk at night) and that we should keep inn members a secret until necessary for calculating potential scum

Now ? is currently holding the Cursed Tome which I believe may be the reason behind my actions being delayed so it is possible that ? may have their actions delayed too which could be beneficial if they're scum but not if they're a town PR.

Also to @JKangaroo , I voted Fiesta purely on gut instinct and a hunch and I was actually the first vote on him (you can go back and check one of the earlier votecounts) until I unvoted and voted Jivvi which ended up being a misunderstanding so I went back to my original vote. My vote didn't have much reason behind it except he was being rather shifty and a hunch. Also to help with inns since if he ended up scum I would presume that the rest in my inn were innocent but since not I'm very suspicious of Mr/Mrs. Mystery.

My original idea was that the Cursed Tome was given to me Night 1 in my inn by somebody else but now I'm actually starting to consider the fact if I did just have a 1 in 4 chance of receiving it and that it is possible nobody else in my inn is guilty. Another possibility that was flying around in the in was a Creepy Girl role which is possible and if there is one then we're pretty much screwed since I would be passed the girl and most likely killed if ? is a scum-killing role tonight \o/

 

[Enderfive]

I'm a little confused right now (in fact, I've been a little confused of some things this whole day, but that may just be me, I have some really big things on my mind right now, but I'll try to give it my best.). What exactly does the Cursed Tome do? Or do you not know that?

 

[Mooglie]

What exactly does the Cursed Tome do? Or do you not know that?

I don't know what it does but since my actions are delayed I presume that was my 'curse'

 

[digi]

I never liked the arguments behind voting Oak, Fiesta, or Swate; they all seemed incredibly silly and made no sense, and it always felt like people were just "going with it" and jumping on the bandwagon with them without really looking into the actual argument made against them, which were always shallow and lacked strong convincing evidence.

I have to agree with what JK said about the votes on Fiesta. It seemed unreasonable to vote him out. That entire lynch was a clear definition of a mindless bandwagon.

With Jivvi, it's disappointing to see him go, since we now know that he was the cop. But, he was too flawed in his explanations and the way he decided to execute his claim. I did, for a bit there, felt I was pushing too hard for his lynch and thought to give Jivvi the benefit of the doubt in the end.

As for this -

In any case: Hype said she didn't trust the claim (neither did quite a few others), or his warning...She disregarded the fake warning, and now Jivvi is dead. Coincidence? I don't think so.

I wonder if you took the time out to read why some people didn't believe his fake warning. May I ask why you're specifically targeting Hype when there was JK, Jeer and myself who also found Jivvi to be suspicious.

Who do I trust?
So far, the only opinions that seem worth reading are JKangaroo's, Samlen's, Hype's, OMO's and to an extent Endersteve's. I don't necessarily take them at their word, but I respect their insight.

Who do I not trust?
@Ooglie101 - Usually the dark horse of Mafia, only ever pops up to say relevant things that could benefit him.
@cooliorules - Not necessarily a threat, but reckless. Her baseless hunches and opinions hold no ground. It's people like Coolio, Swate and Fiesta who are most valuable to Mafia because they tend to overlook details.
@77_is_the_best - He tends to explain things vaguely. He'll sometimes agree or disagree with what another person has said without really highlighting relevant points. Like Ooglie, he has a knack for saying things that put him at an advantage.
@Duffie - It seems that I and perhaps many others are being blinded by his nice guy personality. I don't trust it at all. He plays on how inexperienced he is (which is understandable) and expresses an overly cute and friendly persona; which I feel could lead us in to a false sense of security. I'm not saying for Duffie to change his personality, I'm saying to everyone else to be cautious.

 

[Timdood3]

I wonder if you took the time out to read why some people didn't believe his fake warning. May I ask why you're specifically targeting Hype when there was JK, Jeer and myself who also found Jivvi to be suspicious.

That was just me trying to find evidence for a hunch, mainly for the sake of gaining experience.

 

[cooliorules]

@cooliorules - Not necessarily a threat, but reckless. Her baseless hunches and opinions hold no ground. It's people like Coolio, Swate and Fiesta who are most valuable to Mafia because they tend to overlook details.

Hunni I don't have many suspicions until later in the game. Let's just look back at the two seasons I went far in (I can't remember which they were; I think doomed cruise and then supernatural hotel). Was I correct about those towards the end? Yes. I take my time to look at who I think it suspicious, instead of just saying all these different things at different times.

 

[Ansoro2112]

This is directed towards Duffie:

Duffie, I was reading back and you said this about Fiestaguy (Page 29.). And sorry, I can't quote. (Bold parts are what Duffie said).

"Fiestaguy:

I feel as if Fiestaguy's in the same shoes as Swate, only he makes worse word choices. His wanting to know whether someone had an item or not was suspicious, but I feel as if he was just trying to add onto what Jivvi had already requested, which the sole purpose of that was to find out if this game is item-based or not.

I think Fiestaguy is innocent, even more than Swate, honestly. He just seems like the kind of guy who would slip on banana peels, whether for comical effect, or because he's clumsy."

Now, what is bothering me is that you never found Fiestaguy suspicious. You stated that several times. But at the end you voted for him.

[BCOLOR=#fafafa]

"Well, if he's not mafia or third party, I'm gonna punch someone.​

[/BCOLOR]

[BCOLOR=#fafafa]

Sorry, Fiesta. At least you lasted through the first night.​

[/BCOLOR]

[BCOLOR=#fafafa]

vote Fiestaguy"​

[/BCOLOR]

Now, before you start saying "But there was no turning back" or "Everyone was telling me to hammer" Blah Blah Blah. Just don't say that.

You sounded very certain that Fiesta was not guilty. If you firmly believed he wasn't scum then you shouldn't have voted for him. It doesn't matter if people are pressuring you. If they would've done that to me I'll be like "Shut up and let me do what I want. Don't pressure me." If I don't think Fiesta's guilty then I'll do all I can to prove my point. But why vote for him at the end? It's like if you wouldn't care. Either because you're mafia or Third Party. I see it as if you just followed what others told you and went for it since you didn't had anything to lose. And leaving behind everything you said about Fiesta.

Would love to hear what you have to say.

-----------------​

To answer the questions:

Who do you trust the most: Ugh. I've said it so many times, you can't trust anyone in this game. But so far I'll say Cooliorules and Endersteve.

Who don't you trust: Right now I'm a little bit iffy about Duffie.

 

[Oak Milk]

@JKangaroo In the defense of my argument against OMO, he himself admitted to purposefully play scummy in order to get people to vote for him. I always maintained that I voted him exactly for that: Scummy play (contradicitons, unresolved statements, etc), not for the D0 slipup. I still have no idea why the others followed me. It just showed that both OMO and I are good players: He was good in pretending to be scum (assuming the claim is real) and I am good in hunting scum, since I noticed his tells.

You also do make it easy for yourself in saying "No scum would vote for Jivvi, only to actually kill them" and by that proving some people innocent in your eyes. That's the same phoney psychology that we all use when trying to hunt for scum ^^

This normally would be all well and good except there are two contradictions in this. You say you voted for me for my scummy play and not for the Day O slipup, and yet you voted for me on Day O and then admitted Day 1 that I didn't even appear all that scummy.

 

[Duffie]

@Duffie - It seems that I and perhaps many others are being blinded by his nice guy personality. I don't trust it at all. He plays on how inexperienced he is (which is understandable) and expresses an [hl]overly cute and friendly persona[/hl]; which I feel could lead us in to a false sense of security. I'm not saying for Duffie to change his personality, I'm saying to everyone else to be cautious.

You think I'm cute? x3

This is directed towards Duffie:

Duffie, I was reading back and you said this about Fiestaguy (Page 29.). And sorry, I can't quote. (Bold parts are what Duffie said).

"Fiestaguy:

I feel as if Fiestaguy's in the same shoes as Swate, only he makes worse word choices. His wanting to know whether someone had an item or not was suspicious, but I feel as if he was just trying to add onto what Jivvi had already requested, which the sole purpose of that was to find out if this game is item-based or not.

I think Fiestaguy is innocent, even more than Swate, honestly. He just seems like the kind of guy who would slip on banana peels, whether for comical effect, or because he's clumsy."

Now, what is bothering me is that you never found Fiestaguy suspicious. You stated that several times. But at the end you voted for him.

"Well, if he's not mafia or third party, I'm gonna punch someone.​

Sorry, Fiesta. At least you lasted through the first night.​

vote Fiestaguy"​

Now, before you start saying "But there was no turning back" or "Everyone was telling me to hammer" Blah Blah Blah. Just don't say that.

You sounded very certain that Fiesta was not guilty. If you firmly believed he wasn't scum then you shouldn't have voted for him. It doesn't matter if people are pressuring you. If they would've done that to me I'll be like "Shut up and let me do what I want. Don't pressure me." If I don't think Fiesta's guilty then I'll do all I can to prove my point. But why vote for him at the end? It's like if you wouldn't care. Either because you're mafia or Third Party. I see it as if you just followed what others told you and went for it since you didn't had anything to lose. And leaving behind everything you said about Fiesta.

Would love to hear what you have to say.

-----------------​

To answer the questions:

Who do you trust the most: Ugh. I've said it so many times, you can't trust anyone in this game. But so far I'll say Cooliorules and Endersteve.

Who don't you trust: Right now I'm a little bit iffy about Duffie.

Yes, I thought Fiestaguy was innocent, but I believed he was less innocent than Jivvi. I also kind of forgot what I said in earlier posts at that moment in time, and I feel like I should never vote when I'm in a tired or sickly state now. God dammit.

Well, every action has a consequence, and I effed up by not thinking about what I've said previously. ;~;

My problem is that I'm too trusting of a person. I trusted Fiesta, yes, but I also trusted Tim at first, who told me I should just hammer. As I said above, I know now not to act rationally. :<

There's nothing I can really do to back myself up on this, because this is a mistake I made without noticing, because I blindly forgot what I had previously said about Fiesta at a time of need. Hell, even as you brought it back up, I still feel like I completely forgot about it. >, <

Sorry, Fiesta. :<

If you're reading this, at least know that I did punch someone.

 

[Timdood3]

but I also trusted Tim at first, who told me I should just hammer.

Sorry, that was a result of me getting antsy. I've been playing a lot of epicmafia where once the general populace has decided, it's too late to go back. I guess it's just become a habit :c

 

[Duffie]

Sorry, that was a result of me getting antsy. I've been playing a lot of epicmafia where once the general populace has decided, it's too late to go back. I guess it's just become a habit :c

Well, you taught me a valuable lesson, at least. </3

 

[Mooglie]

*reveals big thing*
*only 1 reply to it*
guys srs

 

[Swate]

So, here I go.

Two nights ago after performing my night action I was informed that I received a Cursed Tome (the two events are not connected) and that I could hand it to another person... in my inn.
Boom, I'm in an inn. The Small Crappy Saloon, the same one as both Jivvi and Fiesta (the cop and a townie, both innocent) however there is another member who I do feel is scum.

Also, before I go on about my last point I'll say something that happened last night which is a real bummer and hurts me deeply (i dislike you whoever did this to me ;~; ) but my night actions are delayed (only the result of the action is delayed, not the actual performance of the action) since the death of Donut Dan hurt me dearly. Also, nice touch, all names so far have alliteration.

Now, since I know it'd be of help if I said some of the things that Jivvi and Mr/Mrs. Mystery (NOTE I DO KNOW THE IDENTITY OF THIS PERSON BUT AM NOT SURE WHETHER I SHOULD SAY IT OR NOT I WOULD LIKE JUDGEMENT ON THAT) said on Night 2 but since I can only paraphrase it goes like this

I make a big post about the cursed tome and what should happen if I do die whilst holding it (I passed the item onto ?) which includes revealing the other person's identity even though this plan was suit to if I died
? wonders why the night is taking so long along with some other stuff about the cursed tome (claimed it in the inn first since we can only talk at night) and that we should keep inn members a secret until necessary for calculating potential scum

Now ? is currently holding the Cursed Tome which I believe may be the reason behind my actions being delayed so it is possible that ? may have their actions delayed too which could be beneficial if they're scum but not if they're a town PR.

Also to @JKangaroo , I voted Fiesta purely on gut instinct and a hunch and I was actually the first vote on him (you can go back and check one of the earlier votecounts) until I unvoted and voted Jivvi which ended up being a misunderstanding so I went back to my original vote. My vote didn't have much reason behind it except he was being rather shifty and a hunch. Also to help with inns since if he ended up scum I would presume that the rest in my inn were innocent but since not I'm very suspicious of Mr/Mrs. Mystery.

My original idea was that the Cursed Tome was given to me Night 1 in my inn by somebody else but now I'm actually starting to consider the fact if I did just have a 1 in 4 chance of receiving it and that it is possible nobody else in my inn is guilty. Another possibility that was flying around in the in was a Creepy Girl role which is possible and if there is one then we're pretty much screwed since I would be passed the girl and most likely killed if ? is a scum-killing role tonight \o/

*reveals big thing*
*only 1 reply to it*
guys srs

Well I can try :\ but I'm not very good at doing this sort of thing. Then again, I've never really done one of these sorts of posts.

Unless Ooglie is lying, we know now that there is a Creepy Girl-type role on the loose. This proves that there are indeed third-party roles in this game (well, unless Priz stuffed around with the roles that much, which is entirely possible. We also know that this is an item-based game, which could legit mean there is a Baker role as we were half-joking around with the idea of earlier.

Boom, I'm in an inn. The Small Crappy Saloon, the same one as both Jivvi and Fiesta (the cop and a townie, both innocent) however there is another member who I do feel is scum.

"You feel they are scum" isn't a very powerful argument :| but if you are withholding who they are/why you think that for a good reason then I respect that and won't push further. Well, unless you are scum :\
I feel there is a good chance of a Mafia being in each inn so that puts as much suspicion on you Ooglie as the other member seeing as though the other two people in your inn were both innocent. Hell, now that we have relatively solid evidence that there are third-parties, neither of you could be town or both of you could be town. Bah, Prizyms I don't like closed setup lol.

 

[Swate]

My original idea was that the Cursed Tome was given to me Night 1 in my inn by somebody else but now I'm actually starting to consider the fact if I did just have a 1 in 4 chance of receiving it and that it is possible nobody else in my inn is guilty. Another possibility that was flying around in the in was a Creepy Girl role which is possible and if there is one then we're pretty much screwed since I would be passed the girl and most likely killed if ? is a scum-killing role tonight \o/

Eyy, I might be onto something here. How do you know that the CG gets to choose and inn instead of it being absolutely random? From what I read here: http://wiki.epicmafia.com/index.php?title=Creepy_Girl there's nothing about that.

 

[Duffie]

Eyy, I might be onto something here. How do you know that the CG gets to choose and inn instead of it being absolutely random? From what I read here: http://wiki.epicmafia.com/index.php?title=Creepy_Girl there's nothing about that.

Well, Priz did say that he changed the roles a bit, so they won't be what they usually are known for.

 

[Swate]

Well, Priz did say that he changed the roles a bit, so they won't be what they usually are known for.

Yea but :\ Ooglie's made a pretty big claim claiming to know that it was a '1 in 4' chance. He doesn't sound so unsure there. As if he knows.

If the roles won't be what they usually are known for, then how can Ooglie role this one off of his tongue without explicitly stating to us "in the possible situation that the CG gets to choose the inn, etc."? And even then, that's really far-fetched.

 

[JKangaroo]

*reveals big thing*
*only 1 reply to it*
guys srs

Well I'm not sure how we're supposed to respond to it. x)
It was a tad confusing at first on what you were saying, but even after that I'm not sure what to do with this information.

So you got a cursed tome... last night? (since this should technically be day 2, not day 3, or by 2 nights ago do you mean at like, the start of the game?) and gave it to the other person in your inn last night whom you don't want to disclose right now...
And you don't know what this tome does but it might be what caused your night action to be "delayed" (does that mean you were like, roleblocked or something? Or was your action literally delayed, like it'll happen later? ._., and I guess that confirms you have some kind of action during night periods besides being in an inn.)
That or you think it might be apart of the Creepy Girl role and you think your other inmate is the Creepy Girl?
Or something along those lines?

The "reveal" doesn't really tell us anything, especially if your holding out information on it.
And even without new information it doesn't really explain what the cursed tome is and what it does besides some guesses, kind of like how we know there is an arsonist running about due to the dousings(Hype/Storm), but at the same time don't know there's an arsonist cause it might be some modified version of an arsonist or some different/made-up role or whatever, and even then with such little information we can't exactly do much with it. :/

 

[Duffie]

Yea but :\ Ooglie's made a pretty big claim claiming to know that it was a '1 in 4' chance. He doesn't sound so unsure there. As if he knows.

If the roles won't be what they usually are known for, then how can Ooglie role this one off of his tongue without explicitly stating to us "in the possible situation that the CG gets to choose the inn, etc."? And even then, that's really far-fetched.

Wait, I'm confused.

What's a 1 in 4 chance?

 

[JKangaroo]

Wait, I'm confused.

What's a 1 in 4 chance?

I believe he's saying there was a 1/4 chance to get the cursed tome because there's 4 players per inn(?)
Because I guess the tome can only be given to a person in the inn? and he said he thinks that he got the tome from someone in the inn?, at least, that's what I'm assuming from what Ooglie said:

and that I could hand it to another person... in my inn.;
-----
My original idea was that the Cursed Tome was given to me Night 1 in my inn by somebody else

Yea but :\ Ooglie's made a pretty big claim claiming to know that it was a '1 in 4' chance. He doesn't sound so unsure there. As if he knows.

If the roles won't be what they usually are known for, then how can Ooglie role this one off of his tongue without explicitly stating to us "in the possible situation that the CG gets to choose the inn, etc."? And even then, that's really far-fetched.

The "1 in 4" didn't seem all that "sure" to me. x)
It was at the bottom of his post explaining some other theories he had, and theories are almost always speculative in these cases, one of which was the 1/4 chance thing... at least, that is what I'm getting from Ooglie's post.
He also guessed at the possibility of a Creepy Girl role in that paragraph.
None of it seems like Ooglie's "sure" of it. x), because from what I read, he certainly didn't say he knew that it was a "1 in 4 chance":

My original idea was that the Cursed Tome was given to me Night 1 in my inn by somebody else but now I'm actually starting to consider the fact if I did just have a 1 in 4 chance of receiving it

That certainly just sounds like a theory to me, Swate x)

 

[Mooglie]

The only info I'm withholding is the name of the other person in my inn which I still need judgement on whether to reveal or not.
And JK I received the tome on the first night after performing my action but I was told that the two things are not connected. I still don't know what the tome does but it does seem likely that it was the thing that delayed my stuff. I just don't know what else would happen if you kept hold of the tome since it's not a forced action. Also you can perform your action and give the tome to someone in the same night.
And yes, I am claiming a PR c:
And to Swate, JK already beat me to the explanation.
And and and and and (annoys me when I start everything with and ;-; )

 

[std1997]

Wheeee.

Making a post in order to avoid lurking. My opinion on current Ooglie tome/PR claim situation:

Despite the fact that Ooglie has killed me in every Mafia game so far. I trust what's he's saying about the Cursed tome and I believe he's also the PR he claims to be although of course, who really does trust anyone in the game of mafia

Opinion on Jivvi's death:

It's sad that we lost our cop on the first night although considering most games seem to have one or two cops. I'm hoping we have at least one more. Besides that, I find it odd somewhat that although he claimed to be a "bomb" or "mad mike" the Mafia still hit him which would end up risking one of their own people. I would've thought that they would hit someone else with a less obviously threatening role but my suspicion for Digi and Hype has grown dim considering it just seems they were overly zealous in their hunt to find Mafia and were trying to pinpoint everything Jivvi said to make sure he was not scum.

Opinion on Duffie suspicions:

I can see why everyone is suspicious somewhat of him. He's very nice and cutesy and is able to hide himself well in the crowd which is a good trait to have as a Mafia player cause it keeps people from noticing you. (VARYS FROM GOT ANYONE?

Spoiler

) but I personally don't feel it. To me, he's about as scummy as everyone else in here.

Opinion on the day so far:

We're getting closer to either finding someone or running into a deadline. I hope we are at least able to form some evidence before the day ends but I also feel if we don't hit a Mafia today. We'll all be in deep trouble.