Limiting Enchantments!

[chris360kss]

Just an FYI, even if we do limit the enchantments people will still get the best limited armour and sword and then people will just start complaining again. I don't have a problem with enchants, it's just people attitude towards PvP. I really couldn't care less if I got in a fight with me in iron with no enchants and them in diamond with prot IV, aslong as it doesn't get to the point where I can't leave my house. And enchants play a small part in that, It judt means that the camper feels has a higher percentage of winning.
I feel this is more about the "abuse" of PvP rather than the actual enchanted armour people use.
But, If it was limited please only make it Armor/Swords/Bows

 

[Gameprochampion]

But you have to remember, if we remove high armour enchants, then we must nerf potions too, a few insta harming 2's on low enchanted Diamond armour will kill. Thus pissing even more people off.

Or a poison 2 which kills extremely quickly. I will admit, the enchant system isn't good, neither is PvP anymore because of Potions and Enchants, but debuffing one thing, and leaving the rest will create many many more problems then before.

There are ways to remove potions and/or limit them. I say we do this as well seeing as this ruins PVP as well. Are we really gonna start judging skill of a player by the amount of time they have?

Honestly, coming from someone who dislikes PvP, but accepts it, I feel the need to have these powerful enchantments, to keep me alive. As I play the game, I don't ever really go out to attack others. What I do is mine, build, craft... Even PvE, which armor can help with. Enchanted armor helps even more.

Basically, coming from the third party of people who don't PvP, but still fight everything but players, I would like to keep those enchantments. I even currently have some of that armor on me right now, but they're not for players... Other than random attacks that come out of no where and threaten my life, in which gives me enough time to turn around and use self defense to save my life.

I can't really give too much say in this matter, but I'd like to keep these enchantments.

If you're able to lower everyone's overall armor, you'll be able to defend yourself without the need for major enchantments like that.

Removing enchantments/decreasing it is kinda like removing diamond because they are better than iron. Diamond finding is about luck, enchanting is about luck if you build a grinder you get better enchants, if you strip mine you get more diamonds. A prot 4 armor is op for a short while, spam it with poison and it gets destroyed really fast,my held maybe 4 min while fighting lagwarrior.

Sry for typos I'm on a phone.

Diamond and Iron difference is minuscule , diamonds actually aren't found by luck, there are a lot of ways that will increase you're chance a lot. There are no special things that you can do to get Prot IV, you have to just hope for the best. If you get shit, you consider it useless.
And the reason your armor broke in 4 minutes, was because you had already used it excessively.

I think EVERYONE knows that would never happen there is a difference in the fact that it's random

Anyways as a person who likes to raid and PvP (if provoked) I know it will seem unfair if people have a bunch of god weapons or armor but again potions can be a good factor in this. I mean sure sometimes people can spend a while trying to get it but eventually everyone can get the armor. Besides some people are acting like everyone afk's for hours on end just on grinders which is completely untrue since first off some people could actually be outside killing mobs and I am pretty sure no one has afked for an hour at a mob grinder.

I think we should keep it as it is or like other have said then another thing will seem overpowered and it will go on and on. Also Gameprochampion it isn't impossible to die with protection 4 armor even if your the worst PvPer. One day i got Juggernaut on AoD and had full diamond armor and a diamond sword and got killed by asae who has an iron sword and leather armor. Did I mention he did it by himself? So it isnt impossible to beat someone with mega armor its all based on skill sure they have somewhat of an advantage but if I was being attacked I would fight for life. Not just lose hope because of the armor.

Balloon, were you really expecting some sort of armor enchantment which combines all the rest? Blast Protection, Projectile Protection, Fall damage, etc. they're all mixed into the bunch with Prot IV. Also Balloon, you have no idea how often people go AFK at spawners. It's a bit bothersome because they use up server space and are doing little to nothing. Juggeranut /=/ Prot IV. The two situations shouldn't even be compared.

balloon98 Why would it never happen?


Edit: Why so rate almost all of my posts dislike, Darth? :L

It makes him feel like a badass.

To be honest, I dont like pvp, never have, but its fun from time to time. I think enchantments are very useful, and I think they create a better battle, especially with the adjusted enchantments, players are now more equal, meaning that pvpers dont depend on their great enchantments, but on their skills, which is how it should be. I dont think you should remove things as now you feel perhaps more challenged as your opponents amour equals yours. Meaning your somewhat less powerful. You'll just have to become more skillful. And as for the traps to kill, simply build better ones that deal more damage.

Holt shit you have this whole thing backwards! You aren't depending on skill at all while using Prot IV, it makes you lazy. You realize no matter what you do, no matter what mistake you make, you will win. Jack please show me you killing a person in full Prot IV while in diamond armor no enchants then I'll believe that it is even possible, *sighs* refer to the video I will post in a little while after I get done with all the replies. Also Dlmt3, at least what everyone says is that he's the best PVPer in the server. If he can't kill someone with Prot IV, you think any new person who just logged on has any chance at all?

I'm going to repost a link that's already been posted.

http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Armor#Armor_enchantment_effect_calculation

Seriously, read and comprehend it. Protection enchants convert the damage absorbed to durability damage. This wouldn't be considered a problem if people were running around with leather or even iron armor enchanted, because it would break so much faster AND has much less base damage prevention. Diamond armor has MORE than twice as much durability as iron. And in case you were too lazy to read it, diamond armor provides 80% base protection, and the max 25 EPF increases that to 89.6-96%. That max EPF can be reached with 3 pieces at prot 3 + 1 piece at prot 2, prot 4's aren't even necessary. Wearing full prot 4 only means that you'll continue to be fully protected after the first piece breaks, but not after a second. And you're still only haggling over a bonus of 9.6-16% above the base of 80%. Again, the problem here isn't the enchants, it's the diamond armor it's on.

Frankly, the "grinding" argument is useless. I've spent 240 levels (maybe 260?) enchanting on this smp, and lost another 25+ to deaths. I've spent no more than 30 minutes at my double grinder gaining levels. The levels mostly come from mining and killing random mobs, and it goes a long way. You don't have to waste your life to get the levels for the enchants you want, and you don't even need prot 4.

As far as an arms race goes, it doesn't apply here. The idea is to create new and better weapons to surprise your enemy. This game has limited options for enchants that are available to everyone. Nobody is creating new enchants and new ways for their gear to kill you.

I don't much care for pvp in this game anyway, and I certainly dislike the enchanting system for what it is, but not for the enchants available. I see no reason to limit the enchantments one can get.

And finally, that video does very little to convince me of anything. A lot of the skeleton's shots aren't hitting him, and only 2(3?) of the tnt blocks detonated. The only consistent factor there was the lava. I can stand in lava for 8 minutes with a potion, so I'm not impressed.

You're tone.... it's a bit annoying but anyways. If you didn't read it yourself then 4 pieces of Prot II have no chance of getting as strong as 2 pieces of Prot IV.... who says we were going to only remove Prot IV? I was thinking revamping the whole idea of potions and enchantments.

The grinding armor is useless? How many people are capable of creating a double spawner? The normal enchantments such as feather falling, blast protection, etc. are alright, but when you put all those together, something doesn't seem right. Why would anyone try and get Fire Protection when Prot IV is just as good as is more versatile?

As for the arms race goes, it does apply here. We might already be able to comprehend what we are up against but in no way are we capable of counter attacking something with that power. So it is a bit of a surprise seeing you land 50 hits, but the person still charging at you like he hasn't taken any damage at all.

The point is Prot IV armor basically limits the amount of enchantments in a way that if anyone gets Blast Protection, they don't find it as useful as getting Prot IV, because frankly why would they? When Prot IV combines all of those factors.

If this guy had eaten food he'd been there until the armor breaks. Go do that with any other enchantments besides Prot, and get back to me with the outcome. (I've already tested this and I normally die in an instant)

Just an FYI, even if we do limit the enchantments people will still get the best limited armour and sword and then people will just start complaining again. I don't have a problem with enchants, it's just people attitude towards PvP. I really couldn't care less if I got in a fight with me in iron with no enchants and them in diamond with prot IV, aslong as it doesn't get to the point where I can't leave my house. And enchants play a small part in that, It judt means that the camper feels has a higher percentage of winning.
I feel this is more about the "abuse" of PvP rather than the actual enchanted armour people use.
But, If it was limited please only make it Armor/Swords/Bows

When the higher chance is close to 99% I think people should start caring :) If you had full Prot II and a god sword, and you're confronted by someone and you lose the stuff, you're telling me you won't care at all? Seemsss legit!


inb4 DarthLego dislikes!

 

[paceboys]

Hey guys lets keep the enchants cause i already have them and i want to keep them so i can camp alll day long weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
inb4 darth dislikes

 

[Duffie]

If you're able to lower everyone's overall armor, you'll be able to defend yourself without the need for major enchantments like that.

I'd like to disagree.

The main reason overall, for why I don't like to PvP, is because I really can't, on a fair level.

My computer lags, I'm terrible at pushing the right keys all the time, and my reaction time sucks.

Even if you put it on a fair level for everyone to be near the same, I'll still die in the end. But, that's not what I'm here to complain about.

I'm here to complain that, in the end of all of this, if we remove these enchantments, the only people who will really hurt in the end, is the people who use these enchantments for self defense, and self defense only. People who don't PvP, such as me, still get attacked by random people. We may die, yes, but the one thing that might just save our lives is the armor we have on. If we have protection IV gear, the attacks they spam on us while our back is turned will be more ineffective, especially with a powerful sword. Remove that sword, and remove my armor, and I feel I'd still be in the same situation. All the armor does is add more time to be consumed in the process of using it, which will always benefit whoever owns the enhancements.

I don't kill people, and when I try to, I never can. The only fighting I do, is kill monsters, and attempt to protect myself from those who attack me. I've said this already, but I'm trying to get this point across;

PvE'ers, or players who only aim on killing monsters, are the ones who will hurt from the change. Sure, I don't have any diamond armor, and would probably spend my first diamonds on tools, but I do use those enchantments on my iron armor, in a way to keep myself alive long enough to turn around and attack my attacker... But, really, I want that extra time to run away, if possible.

If you remove the armor enchantments, the sword enchantments get OP. You'll have to take those out, too.

You'll also have to take out the bow enchantments.

We're talking about making it fair, so that IS the only way to balance it, right?

... But, really, I'm against this change. The only parties being put into this are the Attackers and the Attacked. The ones getting all of the gear, and the ones losing it all. The ones stocked on Over Powered weaponry, and the ones who are just getting started, in the PvP business.

You can't say the ones just getting started on the server are the ones being attacked. Even if they were being attacked, they never had the big stuff. Plus, unless they're a special person on the killer's list, they probably won't be targeted.

... I'm going off topic a bit, and starting to ramble, so I'll just end it on this note;

I, Duffie, of the Blocktopia Forums, disagree on the debate of removing over powered enchantments, in an attempt to balance the Player vs. Player combat of the Survival Multi-player Minecraft server.

 

[LagWarrior]

Ran some tests on the server yesterday.

I can confirm that

• Protection IV diamond armor is godly in lava. I took no damage at all.
• Arrows via skeletions =/= arrows shot by players
• Protection IV armor =/= Invulnerability.
• I had someone take a whack at me with a enchanted sword, sharpness IV diamond sword-- lost 1-2 hearts per hit.

As a neutral party, here's my thoughts

• If the creators gave us something, enchantments in this case, take advantage of it and actually use it. I wouldn't go around saying Pro IV is OP and all the noobs use it. Actually, the noobs are smarter than the pros by using what the creators gave them.
• Yes, luck is a factor with enchanting, but there's am ~~ 20% chance of getting Protection IV for most equipment.
• As dlmt3 said, Use potions. Creators gave us potions, so take advantage and use them in fights to better yourself or bring havoc to your enemy.
• Again, Protection IV =/= Invulnerability. Enchanted swords are ideal when going up against a person with that type of armor.
• Teamwork. Most important factor of the game when pvping. Two on one greatly increases your chance when trying to take down a tank.
• If a new person stumbles in the server, confronted and killed, then yes, I would say it is 'unfair' however, they can just find and make a EXP grinder, and prepare themselves better in-case of another attack or even avoid the user (that's if they want to win over them badly xD)
• Traps traps traps. Construct and prevail.

Even though I don't think im contributing much to this discussions, I'm just here to voice my findings and opinions.

 

[LagWarrior]

If you remove the armor enchantments, the sword enchantments get OP. You'll have to take those out, too.

You'll also have to take out the bow enchantments.

Basically, if we remove/limit one thing, we would have to do the same with other weapons. Causing tweaks to every related weapon for pvp. Right?

annnddd double post? EDIT: WHOOP.

 

[Duffie]

Basically, if we remove/limit one thing, we would have to do the same with other weapons. Causing tweaks to every related weapon for pvp. Right?

annnddd double post? EDIT: WHOOP.

Indeed, because if you take away the enchantments for armor, that will make PvP weaponry OP.

Then people will complain about those.

And then we'll have this discussion again.

 

[Knight365]

What if pvp was lik 1.7.3 again. No enchants, no potions. Sounds funnnnnnnnnn.

 

[Gameprochampion]

Indeed, because if you take away the enchantments for armor, that will make PvP weaponry OP.

Then people will complain about those.

And then we'll have this discussion again.

This wasn't the original idea. I planned on having swords also under enchanted, only thing that's enchantments that wouldn't be lowered are tools used for mining. We wouldn't need to change everything related to PVP, just enchantments.

Lagwarrior chances are if that player was able to get full Prot IV, they would easily be able to get a decent sword as well. 1-2 hearts? Which is it 1 or 2? If someone griefs out of a trap, it's a warn so traps are meaningless and people who do get have decent enchantments will always take advantage of this.

What if pvp was lik 1.7.3 again. No enchants, no potions. Sounds funnnnnnnnnn.

Not even kidding Knight there is a plugin like this but it'll get shot down so fast ._.

 

[LagWarrior]

Lagwarrior chances are if that player was able to get full Prot IV, they would easily be able to get a decent sword as well. 1-2 hearts? Which is it 1 or 2?

It varies due to the random extra damage chance generated by sharpness I-IV swords. http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Enchanting Look under swords.

 

[Duffie]

What if pvp was lik 1.7.3 again. No enchants, no potions. Sounds funnnnnnnnnn.

Even if you're being sarcastic, I'd prefer to stay with whatever is added to the vanilla game. We can always adapt to these changes, with or without (nuts) plugins. For example, as Lag said, we could use other means of taking out people in enchanted armor.

Also, guys, you can see enchantments now. If you see someone in enchanted armor, you'll know you have the option to slide away from them, or even use teamwork to take them out.

But, if you die from someone with enchantments, do the wise thing and not complain. I'M NOT saying anyone has complained, or is complaining. But, what you could do, is to either shove it aside, or seek your revenge, WISELY.

But, Duffie, what do you mean by wisely?
Well, random text floating from my head, you can get friends to assist you in taking out this man.

But what if I don't have any friends... Who can help me out in this situation?
You can do a number of things, such as waiting until the right moment, or use other means.

What if I don't want to wait!?
Other means.

What other means?
You can use potions, for one. As Lag said, potions can be used as an advantage. You could even use non-lethal potions to make yourself stronger, than that your enemies weaker.

What if I have no way of making potions?
Well, you're not the only one on the server. Ask people for items. It's not a sure way of getting those items, but that's a different situation. Basically, if it feels like only one person is holding the items, like an monopoly, just buy it from them.

What if I don't want to buy the items from them, from their means of sale?
Steal them, through LEGAL means.

What if I can't steal from them, as they locked everything up?
Well, I'm sure there are other ways to do things. I don't know everything, stop asking me all of these questions.

 

[Gameprochampion]

Even if you're being sarcastic, I'd prefer to stay with whatever is added to the vanilla game. We can always adapt to these changes, with or without (nuts) plugins. For example, as Lag said, we could use other means of taking out people in enchanted armor.

Also, guys, you can see enchantments now. If you see someone in enchanted armor, you'll know you have the option to slide away from them, or even use teamwork to take them out.

But, if you die from someone with enchantments, do the wise thing and not complain. I'M NOT saying anyone has complained, or is complaining. But, what you could do, is to either shove it aside, or seek your revenge, WISELY.

But, Duffie, what do you mean by wisely?
Well, random text floating from my head, you can get friends to assist you in taking out this man.

But what if I don't have any friends... Who can help me out in this situation?
You can do a number of things, such as waiting until the right moment, or use other means.

What if I don't want to wait!?
Other means.

What other means?
You can use potions, for one. As Lag said, potions can be used as an advantage. You could even use non-lethal potions to make yourself stronger, than that your enemies weaker.

What if I have no way of making potions?
Well, you're not the only one on the server. Ask people for items. It's not a sure way of getting those items, but that's a different situation. Basically, if it feels like only one person is holding the items, like an monopoly, just buy it from them.

What if I don't want to buy the items from them, from their means of sale?
Steal them, through LEGAL means.

What if I can't steal from them, as they locked everything up?
Well, I'm sure there are other ways to do things. I don't know everything, stop asking me all of these questions.

I've seen on this server 4 guys try and take out 1 guy in Prot IV and them getting at least 30-40 hits overall and that person didn't come close to death, so with Prot IV armor you basically turn into a 1 man army

 

[Duffie]

I've seen on this server 4 guys try and take out 1 guy in Prot IV and them getting at least 30-40 hits overall and that person didn't come close to death, so with Prot IV armor you basically turn into a 1 man army

Or, the 4 people have no skill, like me, and can't fight a single person, who may have tons of skill.

No offense to the 4 people.

Edit : Moving my previous double post here.

This wasn't the original idea. I planned on having swords also under enchanted, only thing that's enchantments that wouldn't be lowered are tools used for mining. We wouldn't need to change everything related to PVP, just enchantments.

That's what I said. ._.

But, once again, that will affect the third party of PvE'ers. Sharpness/Power helps with monsters. Sure, you have smite, but that's just undead. Sure, you have Bane of-- something... But that's just spiders, and silverfish. With Sharpness, you can kill creepers, endermen, and even the other monsters through a single sword.

Flame/Fire Aspect is also hard to lower. It has a low amount of enchantments.

Punch/Knockback shouldn't be removed at all.

 

[Vatowski]

Or, the 4 people have no skill, like me, and can't fight a single person, who may have tons of skill.

No offense to the 4 people.

Just gonna add it was 3 people and we were fairly good in pvp. Wiigogetter is a AoD player and has a shit load of experience when it comes to hand to hand combat. I qualify myself as a bit above average when it comes to pvp and silkshadow i have no idea. Like you said Duffie you don't pvp so you wondn't know how unfair a protection IV armor could be unfair. Hence we got are arses wipped.

 

[Duffie]

Just gonna add it was 3 people and we were fairly good in pvp. Wiigogetter is a AoD player and has a shit load of experience when it comes to hand to hand combat. I qualify myself as a bit above average when it comes to pvp and silkshadow i have no idea. Like you said Duffie you don't pvp so you wondn't know how unfair a protection IV armor could be unfair. Hence we got are arses wipped.

... Think Protection IV armor'd people as bosses. You don't charge head in. Not saying you did, either.

So, before you fight a boss, you have to have a plan. What weapons are you going to use? Am I well equipped enough to sustain the damage the boss will inflict? Is it a good idea to fight the boss now? Do I have enough healing potions?

Then, as you have your plan, you go about using the plan in action. But, just because you had this plan, it doesn't mean you will, in fact, win.

As far as you know, this person you were attacking was almost dead.

But, enough with assumptions and possibilities. Basically, just because you didn't kill him, it doesn't mean the armor he had was OP. There are many different possibilities as to why you weren't able to kill him.

... I just got a Phoenix Wright vibe.

 

[Fatalis]

So, is that a yes we should add a 5 hour invincibility potion? And we can make it random like you guys said. You type /pot and there is a 1/20 chance of getting it.

No, but there DO need to be more rules for PvP. Right now its just "kill everyone in sight".

 

[Duffie]

No, but there DO need to be more rules for PvP. Right now its just "kill everyone in sight".

That has nothing to do with the rules. That has everything to do with the people who choose to kill on sight.

It's like MineZ; trust no one.

... Only, on a smaller scale, and with more friends.

 

[Gameprochampion]

... Think Protection IV armor'd people as bosses. You don't charge head in. Not saying you did, either.

So, before you fight a boss, you have to have a plan. What weapons are you going to use? Am I well equipped enough to sustain the damage the boss will inflict? Is it a good idea to fight the boss now? Do I have enough healing potions?

Then, as you have your plan, you go about using the plan in action. But, just because you had this plan, it doesn't mean you will, in fact, win.

As far as you know, this person you were attacking was almost dead.

But, enough with assumptions and possibilities. Basically, just because you didn't kill him, it doesn't mean the armor he had was OP. There are many different possibilities as to why you weren't able to kill him.

... I just got a Phoenix Wright vibe.

Haha these guys when in equipped with god swords and decent armor and attacked them and they got like at least 20 hits each....

 

[Vatowski]

... Think Protection IV armor'd people as bosses. You don't charge head in. Not saying you did, either.

So, before you fight a boss, you have to have a plan. What weapons are you going to use? Am I well equipped enough to sustain the damage the boss will inflict? Is it a good idea to fight the boss now? Do I have enough healing potions?

Then, as you have your plan, you go about using the plan in action. But, just because you had this plan, it doesn't mean you will, in fact, win.

As far as you know, this person you were attacking was almost dead.

But, enough with assumptions and possibilities. Basically, just because you didn't kill him, it doesn't mean the armor he had wa
s OP. There are many different possibilities as to why you weren't able to kill him.

... I just got a Phoenix Wright vibe.

We were in TS talking about how we would take the person on. Also the person told us later that he had protection IV armor...

Hence we got atleast 40 hits on him with chase scenes on both sides etc. but we still got owned on 3v1 I had protection 1 diamond armor also and the others had enchanted iron armor above protection II I think, but we still got owned hence we should remove op enchants

 

[Duffie]

I still feel as if you guys are taking this Protection IV enchantment as an excuse for why you guys lost.

We don't know if you actually got that many hits on him. We don't even know how much of his armor was Protection IV, or how much durability each had.

You guys, once again, could have used potions. Strength, Poison, Weakness, etc.

You guys, as I said before, made the wrong decision. And that's totally fine.

 

[Gameprochampion]

I still feel as if you guys are taking this Protection IV enchantment as an excuse for why you guys lost.

We don't know if you actually got that many hits on him. We don't even know how much of his armor was Protection IV, or how much durability each had.

You guys, once again, could have used potions. Strength, Poison, Weakness, etc.

You guys, as I said before, made the wrong decision. And that's totally fine.

>_> How do you know what happened, if 3 witnesses say it happened, it probably did. And the other party even agreed to this happening..... Poison would do nothing, weakness would just prolong something that wouldn't be changed, and it was a fresh set of armor.

 

[Vatowski]

I still feel as if you guys are taking this Protection IV enchantment as an excuse for why you guys lost.

We don't know if you actually got that many hits on him. We don't even know how much of his armor was Protection IV, or how much durability each had.

You guys, once again, could have used potions. Strength, Poison, Weakness, etc.

You guys, as I said before, made the wrong decision. And that's totally fine.

1. Of course we are using it as a excuse. If he didnt have enchanted armor we would've destroyed him cause like I said we got atleast 40 hits wich is more then enough to kill someone with non enchanted armor.

2.like I said. He told us he had full IV. Durability does not matter.

3. We didn't have any. And we though he had prot I armor at first but he confirmed otherwise after the fight that he had IV armor

 

[Duffie]

>_> How do you know what happened, if 3 witnesses say it happened, it probably did. And the other party even agreed to this happening..... Poison would do nothing, weakness would just prolong something that wouldn't be changed, and it was a fresh set of armor.

I didn't say I knew what happened. And the witnesses were in the losing party.

If the winning party agreed to it, he agreed to it.

Poison can still damage it, maybe even enough to have made the losing team win.

Weakness would lower his attack, maybe enough for the losing team to win.

Strength would have made the winning team stronger, maybe even enough for the losing team to win.

Instant harming would have damaged the single person, most likely not enough for the losing team to win, but to inflict some damage.

Instant healing would have healed the 3 people, at the same time, instantly. Maybe even enough for the losing team to win.

... Throughout all of that, are possibilities. But the thing I'm trying to point out, is that they could have tried many different situations. But they made whatever decision they made at the time, which caused them to lose.

They could have planned things out better.

1. Of course we are using it as a excuse. If he didnt have enchanted armor we would've destroyed him cause like I said we got atleast 40 hits wich is more then enough to kill someone with non enchanted armor.

2.like I said. He told us he had full IV. Durability does not matter.

3. We didn't have any. And we though he had prot I armor at first but he confirmed otherwise after the fight that he had IV armor

Yes, of course. I don't doubt you on that, it has to be the reason why you lost. NOT using sarcasm, it is most likely the reason why... But not the only reason.

As I said above, potions could have been used. And I swear to you, if you used them right, you could have won the battle.

 

[Vatowski]

ERMAHGERD Duffie we did not have any potions to use and like I said at first we thought he had prot I armor, wich led to our demise.

 

[Duffie]

ERMAHGERD Duffie we did not have any potions to use and like I said at first we thought he had prot I armor, wich led to our demise.

... Which proves that you guys did not plan properly.

Even if you didn't have potions, you could have gotten some. It's not impossible.

And thinking he had Protection I armor, was apart of the fact you didn't plan properly.