Is it Time for a New SMP Server?

Is it time for a new SMP Server?

  • Yes, I want a server with PvP and a structure like one of the previous servers (SMP?, Primordia).

    Votes: 36 43.9%
  • Yes, I want a server with PvE like JtE, but with a different structure.

    Votes: 11 13.4%
  • Yes, I want a server with PvP, but a totally new structure.

    Votes: 11 13.4%
  • No, I love JtE!

    Votes: 24 29.3%

  • Total voters
    82
D

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Well, giving up an existing server for an old one isn't exactly the best solution for the current problem. Although I have never played in previous survival servers, I admit that JtE isn't really the best and has a lot of room for improvement.
 

Sephhh

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Better have a new thread for suggestions -- titles are misleading, impressions have been imposed and just all those stuff.

Seriously, all these dislikes, disagreements, arguments and ideas going in circles are making me sick.
It might just be me being stressed and all, but meh. I don't want things rushed out and it won't happen that quick. There are plans made for JtE already and there could be plans of a new SMP in the future, but things need to be in proper place.

We also had a feedback form back then (we could have a new one). I assume those aren't trashed and are put into consideration.
 

Nottykitten

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First of all, I think this discussion might be getting a bit out of hand. I started reading with a bit of joy that so many people were behind the point that change is going to be needed. And then I reach page two where I actualy had to click VIEW for the opinion of the Director because it has gotten too many negative ratings.....

I'm gonna bring some good points that have been made out here and state an opinion about it. And please, dont skip it because it is a long wall of text.
Honestly, I'm tired of a new SMP every half year.
What happens in 6 months then, we get yet another SMP server? We should have a server that can run for a long time but has stability between a fair playerbase and a fun environment. Meaning, if this is not happening for JtE, it has to be worked with. i.e major updates.
Yes, we should have a server that can run for a long while. And that has a stability where the whole playerbase enjoys it. However, I don't think this will ever be possible. Ever. But what can happen is give the playerbase something new every 6 months or so to have them satisfied again for a while.

Elysium is something new. The name itself suggests peace and bliss, and the server represents this. For the past 2 or so years... we have had maps with more substantial elements of PVP. There are players that like to play a calm, relaxing survival server sometimes. Those people are attracted to the server, and those who like die-hard PVP aren't. It makes sense, if you don't compare last server to this server. Also, might I hasten to add that us staff have been working on ways to incorporate PVP. It may come soon, and in the coming days PVP should have more of an influence on the server.

I understand PVP is something that moves the server. It creates action, it creates a challenge, and raiding has more meaning when you take down your enemy. But Elysium is different, and there still is 10% of the world for those who want a hardcore survival experience with the option to gain resources with a lesser threat. Also remember, we have dungeons for people who want to engage in PVP and we have nice dungeon entrances begging for camping. Though the outlets for it are limited, they are there.
I don't mean to offend anyone but I think the "Seperated parts of the world for PvP and PvE" is a bad idea. There are some things I find wrong with it.
-It takes a very long while to walk from my home (CTY) to the PvP side of the world. Even if I use the NN it takes a bit. I want to be able to just PvP from my home. Being attacked at your home gives the thrill that made me play SMP 3 a long while. [Not sure if it was SMP 3 but it was the SMP 2 maps ago] Or teaming up with allies to attack a common enemy at their base.

-Its griefable. You can't make a base in the PvP zone. You can't make traps in the PvP zone as they will just be griefed. I love making traps but there is no point in it if they will just be griefed. And as nothing will get build, there is nothing to raid. And PvP mostly occured on raids!


If you are looking for a good balance between PvP and PvE, it has been said in this thread a couple of times and I think that it is about the only way that will bring a good balance. Only enable PvP at night. This was done some SMP's ago and I found it amazing because I could just build during the day and feel safe during it. While at night the clan goes out to defend their homes.

And with that I will bring a new/old point. I dont think that making the server full PvP like last map would work either. I stopped playing last map because every time I went outside I got ambushed by Prot IV people. There was a thread made about this to reduce enchantments. And it was obvious that that was not going to happen. And if that doesn't happen then I don't see a full PvP server turning out well. And therefor the balance to make PvP only at night seems like the only solution to me.

Anybody who does not realize there are plans, and anybody who does not understand the cycle of SMP servers and who can not accept change is going to want a new server. But let me tell you: There ARE plans, we are deciding to have the longest-running SMP server because we are trying something new, and we are giving towns, settlements and structures a very long time to expand. There is no fear of it being wiped, you have a sense of security. All your progress will not be wiped, you will have something that will stay forever.
To me the cycle of SMP servers is that a restart for it is needed every once in a while to keep the playerbase alive.

Map resets are temporary fixes for one of the major problems in this game, and in life: Change. People want new... everything. As M_B_H said, I do not want to reset the map because it is a temporary fix to an issue we can never solve. While other maps have had this brought up in ~4 months, we've lived almost 7 months and this is being brought up. Our very stable foundation and gameplay concept has propelled us up to this record-breaker and we're not stopping here. Why not rejoice in the fact we have a long SMP? You need to make it refreshing for yourself, and when it is the time for us to do so we will do it - and we will do it well.
I am going to use a methapor here that might seem foolish[And perhaps offensive, sorry!], but I think it has a point.
"Map resets are temporary fixes for one of the major problems in this game" And I am comparing map resets to medicine here. Some medicine[extremer cases] are temporary fixes to keep one from dying. They are needed for survival. And the map resets may be temporary fixes too, but they are needed to keep the playerbase alive.

This SMP lived for almost 7 months, and thats amazing. But everything has to end. We learned that when classic went down. Despite alot of people wanting classic to stay it had to end. And I see a similar case here. And even though if Elysium would be gone, a new server would rise from the ashes and be perhaps even be greater than the current one.


And that brings me to the next part of my post. Why I do see it is actualy necessary to start planning a new server now.

You now have the verdict of the one opinion that settles this, or at least, some of it. No poll, no sole opinion, no petition will change my mind, or the mindset of the Elysium staff team. Though you can change things within the server, you're not changing the consciousness of the server. That's in my hands, and I will be the one to rule over that. I'll let you complain, they will pass in one ear and out the other. If you want my attention, as many head-staff has said in many places, you can send me an organized PM outlining what you want changed and WHY. Though discussion like this is nice, it turns into an opinionated bandwagon when we want a factual, unbiased discussion.

Please do keep discussing this, I will quietly jot notes down and work to iron out flaws that many people seem to be pointing out.

Finally - might I end by saying...



Thanks for the suggestion.
I'll start off by expressing my opinion: No.
Even though it is your opinion. I disagree with your No.
Yes, it is yours and the staff's server. But a server is nothing without players. And even though there are still players. Most of the time it's only 4 or 5 people online.

And I've seen somewhere in this thread the point that TnT has even less players than JtE and why we shouldn't take down TnT while we're at it. TnT is a very different case than JtE. So that point should stay out of it.


Well, a bit of my point seems to have been missed. Creating a new server takes time. It takes man power, inspiration, and the know how to get it running. People seem to be wanting a new server. Some people seem to want to keep this server. Does it really matter at this point in time? A new server will come about, but in time...its not as if this will happen immediately. Just as Elysium was created, the server will be worked on, whilst the current server continues. There will be more time, maybe a good deal of time, for Elysium, and then a server will come about.
The new server needs 2-7 weeks to build and prepare so JtE will last 8-9 months then if we start planning a new server right now. So, basically majority of the players want PvP we add JtE features to it and this: The refresh give players a chance to start over and gives staff time to make important changes to the server. So, what is the reasoning for keep the server running this long?
I think you really underestimate how tough it is to create a new server. The servers JtE took over your estimate of "2-7 weeks" of building and preparation. As well the Primordia server took longer than your estimate. If you expect a proper server that is non-vanilla, then please have a more realistic view on how it works.

"we" start planning a new server, I think Superstein and his staff will plan a new server. Just consider that Superstein is just put on the job, he is figuring his way(s) out and eventually starts planning his own view of a good SMP server, like most of the SMP Directors before him did. Just because a majority wants it, doesn't mean that action can be taken immediately. Not to say that in my entire reign, I have only had 2 PMs about considering gameplay-change. Saying, that a thread where everyone one-up's the Director out of sudden instead of proper contacting seems a little cheap and disrespectful.

What is the reasoning to keep the server running this long? What is the reasoning for not. It takes a lots of preparation and the server itself is healthy considering players that join. Just because the core-playerbase of Blocktopia doesn't play it, doesn't mean no one plays it. Futhermore, as I said, let Superstein get comfortable with everything (if he isn't already) and give him the time to plan something new when the time comes.




Just take this as some friendly critism Hockeyfan, I only want to make you understand that everything is not as simple as it sounds. Even if Superstein is already making a plan for a new server, I hardly think that he will already announce about it. Patience is a virtue.
Finally that brings me to these two quotes. A server doesn't just pop out of nowhere. It takes time. As marnixxie says it, it takes ALOT of time. Super said in his post on page 2 that the Elysium server took 3 or more months of preperation. And if I'm not mistaken, that is ALOT.

If you keep Elysium going, I don't see much changing in the playerbase. And then in three months almost nothing will have happened and you might be like: "Hmmmm, it's time to make a new SMP server". And that new SMP server will have 3 months of planning and making too. Because as I said already, I don't see anything happening to the playerbase and when you finally decide it's ready to start thinking/making a new server it will take another few months. And in those months Elysium will still be as empty as it is now.

So I say: why not start thinking/planning/making it right now? If it will take another 3 months than I say it is time to start pretty soon. Because Elysium will still go on during that 3 months. And in 3 months when people are really getting tired of Elysium you present them an awesome new server and make them happy again for a while.

------------------------------
If you have read it all than I would like to thank you for reading my post. And I have a few last things to say about it.
I know that it is easy to say from my point because I'm not the admin/staff to do it all. And in no way do I not appreciate what the staff have done to make JtE and the time they have put in it to make it better. I respect the staff, I just think its time to start thinking about something new. Again, thanks for reading my post and I hope the idea of starting to plan right now will be taken in consideration as I believe it is a good idea.
 

davidjl123

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Better have a new thread for suggestions -- titles are misleading, impressions have been imposed and just all those stuff.

Seriously, all these dislikes, disagreements, arguments and ideas going in circles are making me sick.
It might just be me being stressed and all, but meh. I don't want things rushed out and it won't happen that quick. There are plans made for JtE already and there could be plans of a new SMP in the future, but things need to be in proper place.

We also had a feedback form back then (we could have a new one). I assume those aren't trashed and are put into consideration.

 

Da Jinks

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Right, gonna address each points made in this post and some other thoughts.

1.Player Count:
I think the servers activity can be brought up with new additions to the server, and events as well. As I said in a previous post: We have a new Director who has new ideas. Give it some time and maybe we will see newer ideas implemented that brings activity up more!

2.PvE:
I think the PvP zone and PvP in general could be reworked some but I also must ask: There is nothing preventing PvP except a quick Nether Network run to the Crucia/Ignis/Castra portal, so why don't more people do so if they want to fight? I've heard people say they fear they won't "get a fair fight" but how is a full PvP server fair to those who are bad/don't want to PvP? I'll use another game I play (COD: Black Ops 2) as a example: In BO2, there is skill based matchmaking, which matches people based off there skill via a score based system. People soon realized they could kill themselves repeatedly to lower there score, then use high streaks and dominate people way lower then there own skill level. Not a exact metaphor, but you get the picture: Full server PvP isn't fair to those who dislike PvP/are terrible at it. Also, the Nether Network I feel works great as is, and don't want to see PvP added to it just to have a lot of people camping the halls and ruining all the work thats been done to it.

3.Pre-Made Towns, Trades, Emeralds:
They were to useful, but now aren't useful? I'll expand on this point later, but if you have a problem with trades, Oak won't bite if you say! :p

4. Quests:
Quests were buggy, they've been removed, case closed.

5.Minecraft is being Updated:
A nether ores reset -should- be possible, and if you need glowstone/quartz/etc. Oak has trades for them :p I also feel instead of worrying about what will happen when it comes, we should see how it works! Maybe things will work perfectly, maybe not, we don't even know a exact date for when the update will come!

6.Application process for towns:
I partially agree and partially disagree. I agree its a bit harder for a town to start out without a tag, but I also like the fact that when you join a village/town/city, its truly a good village/town/city. Someone can't come on and make a village with 4 friends and a few dirt shacks.

Now that I went through all that, I have one or two other points...

One: I agree, JtE absolutely has room for improvement. And improvement will come! But we currently have a good structure, and I doubt the server has survived for 7 months because everyone hated it. SOMEONE must of liked what has been going on! Improvements will come, so before we grab pitch forks and torches and scream SHUT DOWN EVERYTHING let's see what happens and go from there, shall we?

Also, I am rather curious: All these people who have complaints... All these people who want a new server... But I've only ever heard complaints from 1-2 people really, and the main problem has only ever been PvP! Why has no one spoken up until storm made a thread regarding the matter! As I said earlier, Oak and all us other staff will not bite if you have a problem! We are here to play a game as well, and want to provide a good experience for all. If you have a complaint, all of us are a PM/poke/ping/Steam away!

So the tl;dr of this post is: Before we shut down everything, lets all sit down, state our problems and improve on the good server we have before calling in a new server that everyone may hate for all we know.
 

Nottykitten

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Also, I am rather curious: All these people who have complaints... All these people who want a new server... But I've only ever heard complaints from 1-2 people really, and the main problem has only ever been PvP! Why has no one spoken up until storm made a thread regarding the matter! As I said earlier, Oak and all us other staff will not bite if you have a problem! We are here to play a game as well, and want to provide a good experience for all. If you have a complaint, all of us are a PM/poke/ping/Steam away!

So the tl;dr of this post is: Before we shut down everything, lets all sit down, state our problems and improve on the good server we have before calling in a new server that everyone may hate for all we know.
Because in the start something might be good. But after a while it "loses its touch" as said in the main post.

In my case: Last SMP I disliked the full PvP because of prot IV people camping my house/town. So I wanted some peacefull building with CTY. Then we got JtE, it was lovely. Building in peace. It was just awesome. But now that I've been there long enough, I wan't to PvP again. And no. The PvP zone is not the way to do it.

The time that people want to have change has come, and thats why the sudden storm of complaints is coming.
 

Kivifreak

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I think its good that it gets dicussed.
But if you really want to make a new PVP server, i would prepare things privatly.
Dungeons, Maps, New Features, etc.
And then the sceptical people can't say no to try it.

BUT heres my only wish if there will be a new PVP server:
Make the last 2 weeks of the JtE PVP so we can fight ourself, destroy cities and stuff :p ^^
Spawn withers on enemy basess (Uh i think thats actually already allowed :p)
 

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6. Application Process for Towns - When I first started Elysium, I thought this would be great, but it's not. I've created many successful towns in the previous SMP, but this time I had trouble doing it. The main reason: I had no way of creating a TAG with a clan chat that would bond the new members to my clan. Let me explain. If you were a new player to Elysium, and two people called out your name in the chat. They each asked you if you wanted to join their clan. One person had a very fancy TAG and had chest protection and a clan chat. The other person didn't have a TAG or any fancy chat, but they had a very nice up and coming town that you couldn't see from the spawn. Who would you choose? I would choose the person with the fancy book cover, the TAG. See what I mean? This gave the smaller clan a disadvantage right off the bat. I also just really enjoyed the clan chat in the previous SMP. It was very convenient and we created a nice town even without the incentive of something like the clan chat or chest protection.​
I'm just going to take a minute and respond to this, being Elysium's (one and only) Mayor. I think that the tags and chest protections encourage settlements to work hard to obtain them. Granted, bigger clans tend to overshadow smaller ones. (I'd know, as the leader of Sancti.) But smaller settlements can even go under the wing of a larger one and the break away after being established enough. (Oceanus hasn't broken away, but they've obtained great success with Sancti's help.) There are ways to become established, and I think it comes down to natural selection, just like you talked about. ;)
 

storm886

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The time that people want to have change has come, and thats why the sudden storm of complaints is coming.
Hah! You said storm, the irony!

Anyways I think we are getting some great ideas, but again this is ultimately up to superstein. However I would like to point out some things that I think are good ideas.

1. PvP at Night - I think this is a super idea. This could majorly boost the numbers playing on JtE. I also hear that it was fun to play with on one of the previous SMPs. Now to address everyone's concerns about it. Some people are wondering why people can't just go to the PvP side of the wall. That simply won't work. That's another reason why a seperate PvE and a PvP world won't work. We need PvE and PvP type players to work together, not become seperated. We need the beautiful cities and buildings and masterpieces of the PvE players (and some PvP players, you can build very nice things too :p), but we need PvP to put those things to use.

2. Elimination or Improvement of Town Application System - Hold IT! This isn't a definate, but I think it would be a nice change. If you read anything from the beginning of this thread, you know how I feel about this. I think hockey put it nicely by saying it tied members together, it created trust and teamwork between them. The ability to create a clan right on the spot was nice and convenient especially having a clan chat.

I partially agree and partially disagree. I agree its a bit harder for a town to start out without a tag, but I also like the fact that when you join a village/town/city, its truly a good village/town/city. Someone can't come on and make a village with 4 friends and a few dirt shacks.
People are going to create dirt shacks no matter what. Whether it's an official town or not. It's still there and it's still an eyesore and it's still their property. There are so many official towns right now with nice buildings but absolutely a minimum number of people. I'm not sure if there is a rule on this or anything, but I think there needs to be. The cities or towns or villages that are no longer active or have very little people need to be removed from the livemap and from the clan list. This includes loss of chest protection etc.

To also battle this official dirt shack town concern, how about this? We can give settlers+ the ability to band together an official clan with clan chat and TAG (chest protection not needed).

Before you bash me for this, you must read this. No matter what happens we need compromise. The people that just love PvE to death need to be willing to change a little. I being a PvP person am willing to compromise with this PvP at night thing. I think it might continue JtE on for a little bit longer. Not forever, but for a little bit longer. Those of you who say that JtE will never end need to wake up and smell the coffee. It will end someday. Maybe not tomorrow or next month or October but sometime in the future. Let's just try something new and see what happens.

Thank You for your consideration.
 

Notme

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The time that people want to have change has come, and thats why the sudden storm of complaints is coming.
Hah! You said storm, the irony!

Anyways I think we are getting some great ideas, but again this is ultimately up to superstein. However I would like to point out some things that I think are good ideas.

1. PvP at Night - I think this is a super idea. This could majorly boost the numbers playing on JtE. I also hear that it was fun to play with on one of the previous SMPs. Now to address everyone's concerns about it. Some people are wondering why people can't just go to the PvP side of the wall. That simply won't work. That's another reason why a seperate PvE and a PvP world won't work. We need PvE and PvP type players to work together, not become seperated. We need the beautiful cities and buildings and masterpieces of the PvE players (and some PvP players, you can build very nice things too :p), but we need PvP to put those things to use.

-Snip-
Hmm... that idea could work.
PvP at night... I didn't ate someones brain on SMP for almost 6 months!
What about official PvP protection for Town+, that extends 10 - 50 meters from Town+ protection zone border?

100% PvE players could travel safely trough NN ;)

Or what about PvP duel arena?

Gah, this thread is gonna get jte shut for sure...
Nope.

EDIT: This thread has already 1400 views!
 

Hockeyfan1852

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The time that people want to have change has come, and thats why the sudden storm of complaints is coming.
Before you bash me for this, you must read this. No matter what happens we need compromise. The people that just love PvE to death need to be willing to change a little. I being a PvP person am willing to compromise with this PvP at night thing. I think it might continue JtE on for a little bit longer. Not forever, but for a little bit longer. Those of you who say that JtE will never end need to wake up and smell the coffee. It will end someday. Maybe not tomorrow or next month or October but sometime in the future. Let's just try something new and see what happens.
Why not make a list of what worked on JtE and what did not, then what worked in SMP and what did not then take the positives and balance a new server.
 

Nottykitten

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The time that people want to have change has come, and thats why the sudden storm of complaints is coming.
Hah! You said storm, the irony!

Anyways I think we are getting some great ideas, but again this is ultimately up to superstein. However I would like to point out some things that I think are good ideas.

1. PvP at Night - I think this is a super idea. This could majorly boost the numbers playing on JtE. I also hear that it was fun to play with on one of the previous SMPs. Now to address everyone's concerns about it. Some people are wondering why people can't just go to the PvP side of the wall. That simply won't work. That's another reason why a seperate PvE and a PvP world won't work. We need PvE and PvP type players to work together, not become seperated. We need the beautiful cities and buildings and masterpieces of the PvE players (and some PvP players, you can build very nice things too :p), but we need PvP to put those things to use.

-Snip-
Hmm... that idea could work.
PvP at night... I didn't ate someones brain on SMP for almost 6 months!
What about official PvP protection for Town+, that extends 10 - 50 meters from Town+ protection zone border?

100% PvE players could travel safely trough NN ;)
No, just no non-PvP areas for towns. This would just ruin it =S

The no PvP in nether is something I agree on.
 

storm886

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Hmm... that idea could work.
PvP at night... I didn't ate someones brain on SMP for almost 6 months!
What about official PvP protection for Town+, that extends 10 - 50 meters from Town+ protection zone border?

100% PvE players could travel safely trough NN ;)
I'm glad you're open to the idea, but PvP protection would not work either I'm afraid. It still is seperating us.

We need the beautiful cities and buildings and masterpieces of the PvE players, but we need PvP to put those things to use.
And to what notty said about PvE in the nether, why? PvE players have nice buildings where they can hide out in and craft things, smelt things, harvest things. Why the nether? It would be another seperation. We need to meet halfway. PvP during the night for all, and PvE during the day for all (with the PvP wall or not, whatever u want to do with that).
 

Hockeyfan1852

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Hmm... that idea could work.
PvP at night... I didn't ate someones brain on SMP for almost 6 months!
What about official PvP protection for Town+, that extends 10 - 50 meters from Town+ protection zone border?

100% PvE players could travel safely trough NN ;)
I'm glad you're open to the idea, but PvP protection would not work either I'm afraid. It still is seperating us.

We need the beautiful cities and buildings and masterpieces of the PvE players, but we need PvP to put those things to use.
And to what notty said about PvE in the nether, why? PvE players have nice buildings where they can hide out in and craft things, smelt things, harvest things. Why the nether? It would be another seperation. We need to meet halfway. PvP during the night for all, and PvE during the day for all (with the PvP wall or not, whatever u want to do with that).
There should be PvP protection at shops and events, not towns.
 

Zeus42000

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Hmm... that idea could work.
PvP at night... I didn't ate someones brain on SMP for almost 6 months!
What about official PvP protection for Town+, that extends 10 - 50 meters from Town+ protection zone border?

100% PvE players could travel safely trough NN ;)
I'm glad you're open to the idea, but PvP protection would not work either I'm afraid. It still is seperating us.

We need the beautiful cities and buildings and masterpieces of the PvE players, but we need PvP to put those things to use.
And to what notty said about PvE in the nether, why? PvE players have nice buildings where they can hide out in and craft things, smelt things, harvest things. Why the nether? It would be another seperation. We need to meet halfway. PvP during the night for all, and PvE during the day for all (with the PvP wall or not, whatever u want to do with that).
There should be PvP protection at shops and events, not towns.
Why should there not be PvP protection at towns? Wouldn't get annoying to be killed by your own townmates or someone else over and over?
 

storm886

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Zeus, I believe in the previous SMP there was something that prevented you from killing your own clan members. Could someone confirm that for me? Also, you must understand superstein would have to establish rules if this were to happen. Like no spawnkilling, etc.
 

Hockeyfan1852

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I'm glad you're open to the idea, but PvP protection would not work either I'm afraid. It still is seperating us.

And to what notty said about PvE in the nether, why? PvE players have nice buildings where they can hide out in and craft things, smelt things, harvest things. Why the nether? It would be another seperation. We need to meet halfway. PvP during the night for all, and PvE during the day for all (with the PvP wall or not, whatever u want to do with that).
There should be PvP protection at shops and events, not towns.
Why should there not be PvP protection at towns? Wouldn't get annoying to be killed by your own townmates or someone else over and over?
SimpleClans prevented you from killing people in the clan.
 

JtTorso

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What SMP needs is something to keep people invested in the current server, the current cycle has been; New server, friends get together, they build towns and cities, months go by, people get bored, numbers go down, emptyish server, months go by, server resets, and so on and so forth. We need a way to break this cycle, clan and town plugins simply don't seem to be enough and events only keep people on for so long, I've loved almost every SMP server we've had but this really is the biggest problem.
 
L

Later_Gator

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Zeus, I believe in the previous SMP there was something that prevented you from killing your own clan members. Could someone confirm that for me? Also, you must understand superstein would have to establish rules if this were to happen. Like no spawnkilling, etc.

Correct, after you joined the clan.

Ninja'd.
 

Excepted

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Well I'm in the middle here.

On one side on jte I don't worry about building and then being attacked by someone in op armour or not being able to walk out spawn without being killed.

On the other hand with jte you can only do so much before you get bored. An example is Crucia. When Crucia where a town all the members were actively playing on the server to get city status. After we got city status no one knew what to do so they left the server. Also I've been in pvp world many times and never seen anyone and I don't want to invite anyone because if they aren't in it they probably don't want to be.
 
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