Zambie Mafia - Day 4 - Game Over - Town Victory

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MarsKid

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Well, this has really tapered off now.

In terms of suspicions floating around, I don't necessarily agree with accusing Inf as I've said before; he looks almost too vulnerable having been the sole survivor of an inn. It wouldn't be smart of him, as third party/mafia to put a spotlight on himself like that.

Of course, there are people lurking as per usual. I don't think Ooglie has been around much and JK is relatively quiet.

The only person I'm necessarily opposed to is Timdood simply based off of the fact that his intense joking on Day 0 is so pronounced that it feels forced to some degree. Faliara is going to keep roleplaying I suppose, which could be either good or bad. Currently it's not a good reason for a bote or anything.

We should definitely get some sort of vote started on Day 1; two NL's in a row isn't productive in the slightest.
 

Enderfive

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The only person I'm necessarily opposed to is Timdood simply based off of the fact that his intense joking on Day 0 is so pronounced that it feels forced to some degree.
Tim definitely likes to stay vocal and joke around a lot. I don't think he's covering up anything and he's just playing like Hunter.
what made you change your opinion
 

MarsKid

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I reviewed last game and Day 0 and I'm not exactly as confident in my earlier judgment. It feels more like an overload of memes to be honest. Like I understand it could just be how he plays, but it's borderline excessive and compensating for something. He's really the only player that, looking back, I really have any sort of issue with, excluding people that are lurking and not contributing.
 

Timdood3

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Haven't been able to view the thread over the last few days because the whole site's been 404ing me. Apparently, mobile browser will work, but not my PC or Tapatalk.

Now that that's been said, game stuff.
Mars, out of everyone memeing on Day Zero, why is it that only I am suspicious to you? You said it was because you reviewed last game, but then I was joking around just as much. If anything was being compensated for (in either game for that matter) it was the lack of actual activity.

A vote would definitely be too hasty, but I've got my eye on you due to the sudden opinion change on me.
 

MarsKid

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As I've mentioned before, you were in both cases the most prominent person conversing in Day 0. I find it suspicious that you were very excessive with your joking. Originally it didn't bother me until I looked back and noticed how vocal you were and it was certainly striking. I understand Day 0 is always treated as a joke day, but I feel that your participation in it is suspect.
 

JKangaroo

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That's what I initially thought as well, but Inffy raises a good point:

There's hardly any point in giving a third party role that needs to survive to win a power that only activates upon their death. Samlen might as well have made the Oracle a Town role in that case, because that's what it effectively would be, just with a win condition that discourages actually playing the role to its full extent.
True, but that's why I also mentioned werewolf, as that is the only game I know of that also has said role, and both have similar roles of "revealing" players, Epicmafia just has it upon death rather than through action.
From the Werewolf wiki:
The Oracle is a Villager that can, once per game, choose a player and force that player to reveal their card to the Oracle. This reveal happens at night and the chosen player does not learn the identity of the Oracle.
The Oracle provides a one time boon to the Villagers. If the Oracle sees a Werewolf then the Villagers are closer to victory. If the Oracle sees a Villager then they know that the chosen player can be trusted.
Just think of it possibly done with forum mechanics rather than card mechanics like the board game, and probably altered since Oracle is third-party and not town-aligned like it usually is.

And on top of that, it is interesting that the two third-party roles outside of the Zombie faction have win conditions relying on surviving until the end of the game, winning with whoever takes the thing.
Namely because I feel like, unless they had hidden abilities (if they even have abilities at all, I'm thinking of the survivor when I say that) that correlate with the Zombie faction, and they get infected and converted into said faction, then they couldn't really do anything to further their own ability to win.
And since we're just theorizing at this point, I feel like both Oracle and Lonely Survivor must have at least some kind of ability or modifier involving the zombies in some way, or at least can affect all factions.

Like the oracle can reveal the alignment of a person who visits them(+cant be infected), or the Lonely survivor can't be infected or killed at night, only lynched.
Something like that.

I don't know. I might be pushing on the "cant be infected" shtick too much but it would just feel off for there not to be some defensive modifier for such a weak position to win (town/mafia/zombies all at least can have other players pick up the slack if one person dies; those 2 third parties have only themselves).
 

JKangaroo

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I don't know. I might be pushing on the "cant be infected" shtick too much but it would just feel off for there not to be some defensive modifier for such a weak position to win (town/mafia/zombies all at least can have other players pick up the slack if one person dies; those 2 third parties have only themselves).
*pushing it too much because it feels off and I can't really think of a more balanced/etc ability they could have at this point in time that our illustrious host may have used. I knew I forgot to write something when I posted that last bit.

Anyways, I don't think we can really get far just wondering about what they could possibly do, and if they can do anything at all; unless they tell us themselves (or possibly die/get lynched) then I doubt it's something we should really worry about as of this time. It won't really get us anywhere besides some nice conversation... though I wouldn't say entirely wasted. I bet at least one of the people who have responded to this question is one of the two roles so maybe there is/will be some legitimacy to one of our ideas that will be realized if those people get revealed by some means.
*shrug* It's a possibility.
 

Samlen

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*pushing it too much because it feels off and I can't really think of a more balanced/etc ability they could have at this point in time that our illustrious host may have used. I knew I forgot to write something when I posted that last bit.

Anyways, I don't think we can really get far just wondering about what they could possibly do, and if they can do anything at all; unless they tell us themselves (or possibly die/get lynched) then I doubt it's something we should really worry about as of this time. It won't really get us anywhere besides some nice conversation... though I wouldn't say entirely wasted. I bet at least one of the people who have responded to this question is one of the two roles so maybe there is/will be some legitimacy to one of our ideas that will be realized if those people get revealed by some means.
*shrug* It's a possibility.
You dare presume what I would do with mah secret roles?!?? =P

On a more serious note, due to the relative lack of activity, I will be setting a deadline for 11pm on December 7th (About a week from now). If activity picks up or 6ish requests for an extension happen, then I will extend said deadline by a couple days.
 

Enderfive

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Okay, here's what I think.

Mars has pretty much had no opinions of his own throughout the early part of the game (except for the suspicion on Tim that's now emerging, but I'll get to that). Normally that would be fine in my opinion, except the way he's done it feels off to me. A few quotes:
So, here we are with Day 0 and all that fun stuff.

As usual it's just for feeling people out, and no lynches should go through unless they're near-complete certainty of success.
The whole even-odd number thing is understandable, but there's always a high risk on these days of killing a PR.
In seriousness, since the deadline is approaching, this is where we should really decide whether there will be a lunch or not. Otherwise we will face a no Lynch.

I'd get rid of outstanding joke votes so no accidental deaths occur.
I'm not exactly sure about the distribution of inns. I personally am not involved in one.

Losing the cop this early on sucks. No clue what caused those specific people to be targeted, gotta look back at Day 0.
These are all extremely safe statements to make and while they do enough to prevent Mars from being labelled as inactive (something that scum should want to avoid), they don't exactly contribute anything valuable to the discussion. In fact, they don't contribute anything at all, since all he does in those posts is just stating facts. It's a fact (in this community, anyhow) that Day 0 typically ends in a No Lynch and is generally meant just for feeling people out. It's a fact that there's a high risk of lynching a Town PR on Day 0, especially in this game, where we have no civilians. It was a fact that we were facing a No Lynch and it's generally accepted as fact that losing a cop on Night 1 does indeed suck.

The question is, was he consciously and intentionally being vague and unopinionated or was it just because he really had nothing to contribute? Either is possible, but the way he explicitly stated obvious things kind of rubs me the wrong way.

And then there's the way he flipped suspicions on Tim and is low-key FoSing Fali.

I don't know, it just feels off. When people had put Mars under suspicion, he suddenly flops on his opinion regarding Tim because of "intense joking" on Day 0. That's not really a valid suspicion in my opinion, especially coming from someone who has, on multiple occasions, stated that Day 0 is a meme day and nothing serious can really be deduced from it.

With Fali he has now twice said the same thing, that she's roleplaying and that could either mean something good or something bad. I personally don't see how it means anything, which is why I'm confused as to why exactly he felt the need to point us twice in that direction. It's almost like he's setting Fali up for a later FoS in the game based on her roleplaying.

Now, who'd want to point suspicion away from themself and at the same time set someone else up for a lynch? As far as I'm concerned, it's a scum tactic, and a common one at that. In the very same post where he went suspicious on Tim, he said this:
We should definitely get some sort of vote started on Day 1; two NL's
and I agree, a lynch would indeed be something that's necessary today. But with Mars trying to blatantly start a vote on people who have really not done anything suspicious by the common standards, and with the way he was going about the game up until then, I think the most justified vote I can start right now is the vote on Mars. It's all speculation and I completely understand if no one wants to follow for now, but in the meanwhile:

vote MarsKid
 

MarsKid

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These are all extremely safe statements to make and while they do enough to prevent Mars from being labelled as inactive (something that scum should want to avoid), they don't exactly contribute anything valuable to the discussion.
Except that's not true at all. I could easily just lurk and cash in a win with relative ease, like so many other mafia members have. There's nothing pulling me towards being active. As I've tried to point out, plenty of others are following hat sort of path.
The question is, was he consciously and intentionally being vague and unopinionated or was it just because he really had nothing to contribute? Either is possible, but the way he explicitly stated obvious things kind of rubs me the wrong way.
You seem to ignore the fact hardly anyone else is making contributions and talking. Pretty much everyone else has made pretty low-key and not very well-informed opinions. The first time I was brought into suspicion was literally because Infected just felt a very small sort of vibe against me.
With Fali he has now twice said the same thing, that she's roleplaying and that could either mean something good or something bad. I personally don't see how it means anything, which is why I'm confused as to why exactly he felt the need to point us twice in that direction. It's almost like he's setting Fali up for a later FoS in the game based on her roleplaying.
I think it's important to point out this kind of behavior, as in the past roleplaying has been a very divisive tactic in these games. It's not a baseless claim and has been very important to note in the past.
Now, who'd want to point suspicion away from themself and at the same time set someone else up for a lynch? As far as I'm concerned, it's a scum tactic, and a common one at that.
Except I have been actively under suspicion throughout this whole day and have been constantly addressing it.

Unlike multiple other users in this game, I have been trying to get my thoughts out to try and facilitate discussion. Yes, I recognize that my opinion shift on Tim seems abrupt to most, but I wanted to state that and announce my feelings, as basic hunches are all that have any weight so early on in the game.

Why the hell would I be putting myself in such a vulnerable position in the first place? Like I said, I have no reason to be here right now. I could have sit back and let the town tunnel Inf because of his inn circumstances or whatnot and not even say a word. There's no gain from this. I'm trying to get my thoughts out and be useful. You're throwing together a vote against me just like that.

Yes, I did advocate for a vote, but not immediately. I think it's important to have some sort of progress on Day 1. If you NL twice in a row, your only hope is that a third-party just so happens to knock off a scum during the night or vice versa.
 

Nottykitten

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Yes, I did advocate for a vote, but not immediately. I think it's important to have some sort of progress on Day 1. If you NL twice in a row, your only hope is that a third-party just so happens to knock off a scum during the night or vice versa.
I'll have you know town No Lynch'd twice in a row last game and won!

I've been pretty inactive and I feel ashamed for that, but I haven't answered the three questions yet so I guess I will now!

Which is the bigger threat, the Mafia of the Zombies? Why?
Honestly? I would have to say the zombies. Based on the fact they can gain 1 person a night, and we can only lynch one person a day, we can't effectively kill them off without roleblocking/samurai/Mafia because where we kill one they gain one.

Do you have any suspicions regarding any specific player? Who? Why?
I'm suspicious of Ltin because he accused Vat of being the Zombie leader, which I'm thinking might be because he's the Zombie leader himself and wants to accuse others of being it so that people won't think he's the Zombie leader... ya know?*accuses someone of being zombie leader for accusing someone of being a zombie leader*

What do you think the Oracle and the Lonely Survivor do (if they do anything at all)?
Well the oracle reveals a role upon death, pretty sure. The lonely survivor's goal might be to be the only non-zombie left in the game. Zombies might die or just fail as they try to convert the lonely survivor, maybe even a 1-shot bulletproof to protect it from Mafia kills and give this role a chance to win. Thats what I think atleast.

I see the reasoning behind the vote on Mars, and I wanted to go with that vote aswell as you might be onto something but instead I'm just going for my gut feeling of Ltin.

Vote Ltin
 

Ltin

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I see the reasoning behind the vote on Mars, and I wanted to go with that vote aswell as you might be onto something but instead I'm just going for my gut feeling of Ltin.

Vote Ltin
Excuse me that is very rude.

As for Vat

This day we should just use the detective and see if that gives us anything. Maybe we can afford to no lynch once more but we should definitely get some information or the game can quickly snowball into a mafia win, zombies can still do a lot of work vs mafia though. I will probably be in favour to lynch but that depends on how the day goes.
We shouldn't focus on zombie leader now because if we kill them too soon I think mafia will run with this game but we have to keep them in check.
The zombie leader (or pretty much any zombie is probably the most important role to get rid of right now. My reasoning is this:

-With other Zombies, chooses one person each night that will be infected OR killed, based on current player/zombie ratio
(zombie leader action)
If the zombie leader dies, the zombies still get a night action:
It is the same action, only decided as group instead of the leader.
This is incredibly OP, and it wont take long before zombies are assured to win. Each night either a new zombie joins the ranks, or a not zombie dies, Ad infinitum (untill they are completely destroyed.) We could lynch a zombie every day, and still lose to the zombies. The kill thing is kinda in our favor, but town people still die.

Vat seems to have a pro-zombie view on the entire game (i do have more to say on that, but that is going to have to wait a bit (assuming i don't back out of it).

oh and btw, i am in an inn.

vote Vatumok
 

Vatumok

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Ltin

I think in the description it said that targets get zombified or killed depending on the # of zombies, I bet Samlen balanced the role in a way that it's not an easy win. I said that because losing 2 important town roles means we are very vulnerable to the mafia too, there are still 4 left and because we lost our cop no way to figure out who. I'm not saying zombies are not scary at the moment, I'm saying that it's possible that we can't win without zombies killing some mafia first. If we disregard mafia now they will handily win.
I find it more interesting that when you get accused you suddenly try to start a bandwagon on me and I think it's very likely that you are mafia trying to push an early win now that the cop is out. I'll abstain with voting until you reply.
 

Timdood3

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(1) Except that's not true at all. (1.1) I could easily just lurk and cash in a win with relative ease, (1.1a) like so many other mafia members have. (1.2) There's nothing pulling me towards being active. (1.3) As I've tried to point out, plenty of others are following that sort of path.

(2) You seem to ignore the fact hardly anyone else is making contributions and talking. (2.1) Pretty much everyone else has made pretty low-key and not very well-informed opinions. (2.2) The first time I was brought into suspicion was literally because Infected just felt a very small sort of vibe against me.

(3) I think it's important to point out this kind of behavior, as in the past roleplaying has been a very divisive tactic in these games. It's not a baseless claim and has been very important to note in the past.

(4) Except I have been actively under suspicion throughout this whole day and have been constantly addressing it.

Unlike multiple other users in this game, I have been trying to get my thoughts out to try and facilitate discussion. Yes, I recognize that my opinion shift on Tim seems abrupt to most, but I wanted to state that and announce my feelings, (2.1a) as basic hunches are all that have any weight so early on in the game.

(5) Why the hell would I be putting myself in such a vulnerable position in the first place? Like I said, I have no reason to be here right now. (5.1) I could have sit back and let the town tunnel Inf because of his inn circumstances or whatnot and not even say a word. (5.2) There's no gain from this. (5.2a) I'm trying to get my thoughts out and be useful. (5.3) You're throwing together a vote against me just like that.

Yes, I did advocate for a vote, but not immediately. (5.3a) I think it's important to have some sort of progress on Day 1. If you NL twice in a row, your only hope is that a third-party just so happens to knock off a scum during the night or vice versa.
1) It's not? I'm going to take apart all of the statement in the quoted bit and we'll see how much of it is true. "These are all extremely safe statements to make." Yep. "They do enough to prevent Mars from being labelled as inactive." Also true. "They don't exactly contribute anything to the discussion." Accurate.
1.1) Really? Town can't really win if they're all lurking
1.1a) Ah, I see.... You've just referred to yourself as a mafia member. To me, that on it's own is enough to warrant a vote, but seeing as there's more post here to address, I will do so.
1.2) A town win condition. This kind of goes with the above.
1.3) And? We both know that that will bite them sooner or later. Inactivity is the #1 way to be suspicious.

2) What's relevant about that? Are you saying that you're not suspicious for not contributing because others aren't? That argument doesn't even apply.
2.1) My friend, it's Day One and the cop is dead. No suspicions will be well informed.
2.1a) Weren't you just complaining earlier in your post about how nobody was well informed? And now you're defending yourself by saying there's nothing to go off of? This goes in with 2.2 as well, as you complained that you came under suspicion due to a basic hunch.
2.2) When you were first put under suspicion is in this case irrelevant, but I will say this (though it gives little to no additional credit to the argument): When Infy has a light vibe on someone, he's usually right.

3) No? Let's have a look back through history at the effect of roleplaying in mafia. There was the Masquerade, in which Nitasu roleplayed as an assassin. It later came to light that there was a secondary mafia faction present in the game, flavored as assassins. He was lynched. He was town. His roleplaying played no intentional part in the game, and he did it simply for his own amusement.
Last game, the argument could be made that I was roleplaying (though I wouldn't call it that because*) to make claims to support my fake claim, and it was relevant only because *it had a direct impact on whether people believed my claim or not.
Now, Faliara is roleplaying because....It's something she likes to do. There is nothing suspicious or noteworthy about it.

4) Constantly under suspicion? Sure. Constantly addressing it? Yes, but it's the way you're addressing it.

5) Because 1.3.
5.1) No one is really tunneling inf at all, really. I mean, sure he was the most likely candidate for a lynch before you came along and started being all suspicious, but not a single town member would feel good about lynching him just because he was the sole survivor of an inn with two other townies in it. There's no evidence there.
5.2) Isn't there? I don't know what game you're playing, but I'm playing Mafia. And in Mafia, any reasonable argument for or against a lynch on anyone is productive.
5.2a) Me too.
5.3) And I'm expanding on it, just like this. Like I said, any reasonable argument for or against anyone is productive. The phrase "Throwing a vote together" implies that his post was weak and hastily put together, but it wasn't. Looks to be you just put it that way to try to discredit it without addressing anything. [Note: yes, you addressed things elsewhere in the post, but not here.]
5.3a) This marker is just here to point out you believe we need progress. This post is progress, just see 5.2 and 5.3.

All of that said,

Vote Marskid
 

Ltin

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Ltin

I think in the description it said that targets get zombified or killed depending on the # of zombies, I bet Samlen balanced the role in a way that it's not an easy win. I said that because losing 2 important town roles means we are very vulnerable to the mafia too, there are still 4 left and because we lost our cop no way to figure out who. I'm not saying zombies are not scary at the moment, I'm saying that it's possible that we can't win without zombies killing some mafia first. If we disregard mafia now they will handily win.
I find it more interesting that when you get accused you suddenly try to start a bandwagon on me and I think it's very likely that you are mafia trying to push an early win now that the cop is out. I'll abstain with voting until you reply.
We can't win at all if the Zombies get an advantage.
Mafia should be just as worried (actually more worried) about the Zombies as town.
I don't deny that the mafia needs to be stopped, and I will gladly vote for someone I think is mafia if nobody else is suspicious.
But I think you are suspicious, and frankly very buddy buddy w/ the Zombies.
 

MarsKid

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That was incredibly nitpicky to the point of comedy. I can apply the same service.

It's not? I'm going to take apart all of the statement in the quoted bit and we'll see how much of it is true. "These are all extremely safe statements to make." Yep. "They do enough to prevent Mars from being labelled as inactive." Also true. "They don't exactly contribute anything to the discussion." Accurate.
By contributing to discussion, I'm not contributing to discussion? That's funny. We wouldn't even be here if not for the conversation I started, even though it is currently against me.
Ah, I see.... You've just referred to yourself as a mafia member. To me, that on it's own is enough to warrant a vote, but seeing as there's more post here to address, I will do so.
Probably the dumbest reasoning used here. If you think that's any admission of guilt then you really are grasping at straws.
2) What's relevant about that? Are you saying that you're not suspicious for not contributing because others aren't? That argument doesn't even apply.
2.1) My friend, it's Day One and the cop is dead. No suspicions will be well informed.
2.1a) Weren't you just complaining earlier in your post about how nobody was well informed? And now you're defending yourself by saying there's nothing to go off of? This goes in with 2.2 as well, as you complained that you came under suspicion due to a basic hunch.
2.2) When you were first put under suspicion is in this case irrelevant, but I will say this (though it gives little to no additional credit to the argument): When Infy has a light vibe on someone, he's usually right.
And here it gets really interesting.

I find it odd that people are getting on my case for contributions that motivate discussion while others have said nothing of value. As soon as I voiced my opinions I suddenly attracted suspicion from multiple parties who have done nothing thus far except try and tear into my every post.

Giving Infected credit for being truthful with is gut feeling makes no sense. I can argue for myself for having the same sort of intuition. Multiple people could argue the same thing for themselves. That's a completely irrelevant point.
) No? Let's have a look back through history at the effect of roleplaying in mafia. There was the Masquerade, in which Nitasu roleplayed as an assassin. It later came to light that there was a secondary mafia faction present in the game, flavored as assassins. He was lynched. He was town. His roleplaying played no intentional part in the game, and he did it simply for his own amusement.
Last game, the argument could be made that I was roleplaying (though I wouldn't call it that because*) to make claims to support my fake claim, and it was relevant only because *it had a direct impact on whether people believed my claim or not.
Now, Faliara is roleplaying because....It's something she likes to do. There is nothing suspicious or noteworthy about it.
Conveniently leaving out Leescar's performance in Anvil Base that stirred pages of discussion.
5) Because 1.3.
5.1) No one is really tunneling inf at all, really. I mean, sure he was the most likely candidate for a lynch before you came along and started being all suspicious, but not a single town member would feel good about lynching him just because he was the sole survivor of an inn with two other townies in it. There's no evidence there.
5.2) Isn't there? I don't know what game you're playing, but I'm playing Mafia. And in Mafia, any reasonable argument for or against a lynch on anyone is productive.
5.2a) Me too.
5.3) And I'm expanding on it, just like this. Like I said, any reasonable argument for or against anyone is productive. The phrase "Throwing a vote together" implies that his post was weak and hastily put together, but it wasn't. Looks to be you just put it that way to try to discredit it without addressing anything. [Note: yes, you addressed things elsewhere in the post, but not here.]
5.3a) This marker is just here to point out you believe we need progress. This post is progress, just see 5.2 and 5.3.
Never said that Infected was being tunneled. But given the direction of early discussion, I could have easily fanned the flames and gotten more attention on his lone-survivor status in his inn. It would be a convenient, easy D1 lynch and wouldn't put me in a bad light. It would simply be the better option.

I said "There's nothing to gain from this" talking from the perspective of a mafia player. If I was scum, there would be nothing to gain from this. It's absolutely pointless to be in the light like this early on in the game when playing low-key would serve me much better.

I addressed his post and I think it's baseless. I tried to make a post against it as well as I could while deconstructing what he said. Not sure what else you expect from me.
 

Nottykitten

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Also Ender basically just rationalised my vibe suspicions on Mars and explained them. I'm cautious

ANSWER MY QUESTIONS OR I SHALL VOTE YOU! And I can't quote them because mobile is hard but they're somewhere! TWICE!
I either already answered them like last week or there are questions I dont know about. I guess I'll wait for you to quote them then when you're online on pc(which is never these days =()
 

Vatumok

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Ender, Tim and Notty come over as trustworthy to me, they make good arguments and seem to want to help town forward. MarsKid and Ltin are the people that I consider most likely to be mafia and maybe still Infected a little bit. After the accusations I am kinda compelled to vote Ltin because it looks kinda scummy to me but I'm fine with following End and Tim to vote for MarsKid for today, as they seem to have the bets arguments.
 
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