Infected_alien8_
Garry's Mod Admin
I actually made a post where I joke voted him for making a joke but then I was like "somebody's going to say this is me acting weird and lynch me for it" but since you've said it I guess I'm safe to talk about it
The Red Scare [Game Over]
- Thread starter Ltin
- Start date
Oh look, I now have a snazzy name tag... GOING UP IN THE WORLD!
Anyways I came to ask Unusual_Dood to get TheWeakGuy48_ to reply as well as Samlen to give their opinions on the game so far... also I suppose Ooglie101 hasn't really contributed.
Anyways I came to ask Unusual_Dood to get TheWeakGuy48_ to reply as well as Samlen to give their opinions on the game so far... also I suppose Ooglie101 hasn't really contributed.
Hi guys, just gonna let you know that I have been busy these last days because of a school task. I will post a detailed post about my thougths tomorrow or later today. (btw blame unu for the late reply, he litterary didnt post this when I told him he should)
Enderfive
sarcasm incarnate
trust me, this is not a thread going downhill
a thread going downhill would be what we used to have every game, where there was a post per day, this activity is perfectly fine, not everyone can be at their computers 24/7 checking mafia at every possible occasion
that being said it is my opinion that a deadline should be put in place every day at the daystart, so i basically agree with you anyway
Enderfive
sarcasm incarnate
First, let me respond to the suspicions that have been cropping up against me.
Let's look at those contradictions you've pointed out.
The way I look at playstyle arguments in a purely meta sense is that when someone is playing in the same way they usually play, then that is not a reason to think anything about them. If someone is behaving different from usual, then it's cause to be wary, but not to lynch. When it comes to this:
So this:
As for the second point against me:
All in all, it's a coincidence that my last vote came after you pushed for lynching HK and it's not even true that my first vote on you came after you pushed for lynching HK.
There were some other tidbits as well in that point of yours:
As for Unu, and the reasons both he and Inf alluded to when voting me, I can't actually see any. All he had to say was:
b) Cult leaders are of no importance to either the town or the mafia, if we assume that their convertees retain their original win conditions. Thus, I don't give a single fuck about whether or not they live, and I don't think the mafia do either. The reason I asked them to out themselves was because I was hoping that a mafioso would want to seize the opportunity to claim a role that was at the time being advertised as basically confirmed inno, especially considering how the real cult leaders would probably not out themselves due to the risk of being lynched and losing the game before even the first night. If there was more than two claims, we'd know that at least one of them is lying and we'd have narrowed 16 suspects down to three (or four, or however many claims there were), with a theoretical chance of at least 33% to lynch a mafia with no risk of lynching a townie (assuming no townie would claim a cult leader position themself).
c) The third point isn't even an argument, you just make a claim and leave it hanging and then say that it's beneficial for the mafia. Excuse me for remaining skeptical, but how? Until you explain your thought processes behind this, I don't have an argument to respond to.
Now, I pointed these things out in response, with the exception of the D0 lynch, because as I said, I had already responded to that and you had done nothing to counter my already given answer. And this is what I got back:
Now, the thing that I find interesting is that the two arguments that could be considered such (D0 lynch and the whole cult business), are both arguments that could be used against himself.
I also find it interesting that Unu has expressed his suspicion in Iggish, after he voted Inf, and in me, after I voted Inf. Meanwhile, the whole cultist reveal argument that he has going on against me, hasn't once cropped up against Inf, even though he was the one to suggest the idea in the first place. Draw your own conclusions from that.
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Except that's not true.
Let's look at those contradictions you've pointed out.
Calling strawman on this. I haven't said that playstyle arguments aren't valid, or if I have then I was confused at the time and possibly thinking about something else at the same time. What I do believe, however, is that playstyle arguments aren't enough to lynch. As you pointed out yourself:
"just" being the keyword here.
The way I look at playstyle arguments in a purely meta sense is that when someone is playing in the same way they usually play, then that is not a reason to think anything about them. If someone is behaving different from usual, then it's cause to be wary, but not to lynch. When it comes to this:
then since I've played quite a few games with Caff, then I have greater trust in my gut feelings about her than I would about someone who I haven't played a lot with, such as Foggy or Iggish. Thus the townread.
So this:
isn't true.
Again, not true. Jivvi was a policy lynch on my part, which means that completely different rules apply, and the vote on you was because I had to choose someone from that shitty list of mine, and it just so happened to be you, because while the others on that list were only on that list, you had a few other things going against you as well, like that nightkill analysis, which, honestly, was pure horseshit and I don't understand how I came up with that.
Yes, well, I believe it's important to note here that my intention was not to lynch you, it was to place pressure on you. I would also, once again point out that I did not make an exception in my principles just to lynch you, as I've already explained.
As for the second point against me:
Well, sort of yes, sort of no. It's a coincidence, but just for the sake of it, let me show you why my votes had nothing to do with you pushing on HK.
Well, I was townreading you at that point, or at least not reading you as scum. I voted you on page 19 because according to my analysis of suspicions, which I only got done right before I voted, you were the one who had the highest possibility of being scum, even if I didn't read you as such, which is why I voted to put pressure on you and see how you reacted so I could get a better read. I would also point your attention to the fact that you were putting suspicion on HK since the day start, at which point I was still townreading you. The fact that you said that you were suspicious of HK and then I voted kind of loses its impact after that.
See, now this implies that you actually did push for a HK lynch right before both times I voted you. The vote on this day I already explained, the vote on Day 0 came after you had mentioned HK as a vibe in passing three times over something like 50 posts. And then you started pushing him, meaning that my vote on you on Day 0 had nothing to do with you pushing for HK, unless I can actually see the future, since as a mafia member, and especially as a member of a mafia this large, I would not go defending my buddies against something this minor. Not to mention that Unu had actually placed a vote on him by the time of my first vote, so even if I did want to defend him, which would've been fucking stupid of me, then there was a player that was more dangerous to him.
All in all, it's a coincidence that my last vote came after you pushed for lynching HK and it's not even true that my first vote on you came after you pushed for lynching HK.
There were some other tidbits as well in that point of yours:
If you think you broke those points down, then you really have a high opinion of yourself. You said, and I quote:
and that was pretty much all you actually said. I would like to take this moment to remind you that simply because you didn't understand those points doesn't mean they weren't valid. I maintained those reasons even after you "broke them down", and while I did indeed admit that they weren't irrefutable proof of you being scum, I still believed and still do believe that they were valid points.
I don't feel like I have to respond to that more than to say I've already responded to this.
And I still maintain that there probably were a few mafia in that lynch. But I also think that there were some mafia who didn't vote to lynch Jivvi, and I'd wager that it was the smarter mafiosi who did that, because then they could point to people who did and say that it wasn't a very townie thing to do. Given the fact that I had no opinions at all on people who did vote for Jivvi, and the fact that I had other reasons to vote for you as well, regardless of how shit or not shit they were, that's why I chose to vote you, not any of the people that did vote for Jivvi. I said right on Day 0 that I would not vote randomly and if I had voted someone in the Jivvi lynch votelist, that's exactly what I would have had to do.
Looking forward to, so I could form an opinion. No one is guilty simply by association to the Jivvi lynch. If I believed that, I'd have to start by leading a lynch on myself, considering how I was the one to come up with the idea in the first place.
It makes perfect sense, as I just explained. There weren't any points for me to ignore. Thus my vote on you.
What I'm really trying to do is get people to talk and react so I can actually form some opinions on them. Until now, this has meant using you as a target.
Don't really have an answer on the first two since they're pure speculation with no explanation, I did, however, asnwer to the third already.
And you probably are, since all four of your suspicions are on people who have pushed you. I mean, you say it out loud right in the next sentence:
All my recent actions have been to push you, so that kind of speaks for itself. And I get that you might genuinely find me scummy, and it's possible I would too, if I were in your position, but that doesn't change the fact that this opinion is most likely skewed against me by the fact that you're getting emotional about being voted.
As for Unu, and the reasons both he and Inf alluded to when voting me, I can't actually see any. All he had to say was:
a) Already explained the D0 lynch.
b) Cult leaders are of no importance to either the town or the mafia, if we assume that their convertees retain their original win conditions. Thus, I don't give a single fuck about whether or not they live, and I don't think the mafia do either. The reason I asked them to out themselves was because I was hoping that a mafioso would want to seize the opportunity to claim a role that was at the time being advertised as basically confirmed inno, especially considering how the real cult leaders would probably not out themselves due to the risk of being lynched and losing the game before even the first night. If there was more than two claims, we'd know that at least one of them is lying and we'd have narrowed 16 suspects down to three (or four, or however many claims there were), with a theoretical chance of at least 33% to lynch a mafia with no risk of lynching a townie (assuming no townie would claim a cult leader position themself).
c) The third point isn't even an argument, you just make a claim and leave it hanging and then say that it's beneficial for the mafia. Excuse me for remaining skeptical, but how? Until you explain your thought processes behind this, I don't have an argument to respond to.
Now, I pointed these things out in response, with the exception of the D0 lynch, because as I said, I had already responded to that and you had done nothing to counter my already given answer. And this is what I got back:
First, what information is that, second, how can they give it to us if they're hidden?
I'm pretty sure that if a cult leader dies, someone else within the cult can take recruiting over.
Now you're making no sense at all. If they think that the mafia could target them, why on earth would they want to choose to convert people that the mafia will also be targeting? Furthermore, if they were really feeling so targeted, why would they not try to recruit one of the mafia and thus attempt to gain an insider, so that they wouldn't be as likely to be targeted? But before all that, why would the mafia want to target them specifically anyway? What would the mafia have to gain by eliminating the cults? If I was a mafioso, I'd consider the cults to be a benefit, since if they were given enough attention, they could divert attention away from the mafia, not to mention that townies would be more inclined to share their secrets in a cult chat as opposed to the public thread, which would give a mafioso an excellent chance to inflitrate one of the cults and snoop around, pretending to be a townie.
Yes, and that is in no way dependent on the leaders remaining hidden. In fact, this would mean that it would be beneficial for every townie that has so far joined a cult, to out their leaders and I'm surprised no one has thought of doing this before.
And that is beneficial... how exactly?
Again, not dependent on them remaining hidden, and we can't use that information if they are.
I'm not particularly sure what you even mean by that.
Look, I get that you for some reason think cults are really really important in this game, even if all the info we have from the host suggests otherwise, but I still can't understand why you think the cult leaders need to remain hidden for us to get the benefits you want.
I've been over this.
I've been over this, too.
Now, the thing that I find interesting is that the two arguments that could be considered such (D0 lynch and the whole cult business), are both arguments that could be used against himself.
Worth to note here is how he's perfectly fine with a lynch, even a random lynch, and I never went that far. Also note how he wants to get rid of the cults. So, while I know that you changed your mind after and I know you've explained why you did that, what I want to hear is why you think those arguments are valid after you yourself are guilty of doing both of those things you find me suspicious for, going even further than I did with both of them at first.
I also find it interesting that Unu has expressed his suspicion in Iggish, after he voted Inf, and in me, after I voted Inf. Meanwhile, the whole cultist reveal argument that he has going on against me, hasn't once cropped up against Inf, even though he was the one to suggest the idea in the first place. Draw your own conclusions from that.
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Enderfive
sarcasm incarnate
But enough about that. I actually wanted to discuss something different entirely.
During this entire game, you have not had a single original opinion, nor have you contributed much to the discussion. That would actually be par for the course for you, wouldn't it? Lurking and generally just not doing much? Well, it seems to me you're not really doing that any more, either.
Let's take a look at all three of the substantial posts you've made.
There was also some speculation against Inf, but again, as he already pointed out in response, this wasn't really a new point either, as several people, including myself, had already noted that Inf seemed to be trying too hard to look like a townie.
And then I put the heat on Inf and you followed up with this:
And then the third, which came shortly after the second:
Now, I'm not saying you're mafia. All I'm saying is that you're showing some pretty common signs of a mafioso: going with majority opinion, trying to make yourself look useful while really not contributing anything, hesitating to give strong opinions about people, preferring to point out that they might be suspicious for one reason or another, but you're just not sure at all.
In conclusion, I'm still confused as fuck about Inffy because on one hand I feel like he might really be scum and on the other I feel like he could really be innocent, but I am starting to develop FoSes on both Unu and Mulb.
tl;dr: fuck you, I had to write this shit so you'll have to read it.
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You'd say that, wouldn't you?
During this entire game, you have not had a single original opinion, nor have you contributed much to the discussion. That would actually be par for the course for you, wouldn't it? Lurking and generally just not doing much? Well, it seems to me you're not really doing that any more, either.
Let's take a look at all three of the substantial posts you've made.
I do have to say you have a way of saying nothing while using a whole lot of words for it. All the people you mentioned, you didn't actually give any opinion on. You just said: "Yep, they're in the game, not sure what I think about them." There was one exception, though. Iggish, you said, tried awfully hard to fit in. While still not saying much, it at least implies that there is some degree of suspicion against Iggish there and this was right at the time when Iggish was getting heat from Inf and Unu.
There was also some speculation against Inf, but again, as he already pointed out in response, this wasn't really a new point either, as several people, including myself, had already noted that Inf seemed to be trying too hard to look like a townie.
And then I put the heat on Inf and you followed up with this:
Is it just me, or does Mulb like saying things that other people are saying at the time?
And then the third, which came shortly after the second:
A whole lot of numbers and no real substance. You draw the conclusion that the vig didn't kill due to inactivity, which, I might add as a side note, is untrue in all likelihood, given how short the night was, but it doesn't really show anything. It doesn't show how Inf is mafia, it doesn't draw any conclusions that might help us lead a lynch on a scum. What it does do, however, is show you contributing to the discussion, because look, there was math in my post and everything!
Now, I'm not saying you're mafia. All I'm saying is that you're showing some pretty common signs of a mafioso: going with majority opinion, trying to make yourself look useful while really not contributing anything, hesitating to give strong opinions about people, preferring to point out that they might be suspicious for one reason or another, but you're just not sure at all.
In conclusion, I'm still confused as fuck about Inffy because on one hand I feel like he might really be scum and on the other I feel like he could really be innocent, but I am starting to develop FoSes on both Unu and Mulb.
tl;dr: fuck you, I had to write this shit so you'll have to read it.
(2/2)
