Okay well here's a list of people that have done what I consider to be scummyish things, for future reference and also for others to see.
Foggy - pushed on me because of some big suspicion out of nowhere that I killed hip, went to the extent of throwing arguments together, pretending those were his reasons for voting me, but in reality they were just justifications and excuses to push for me because he was so sure that I was scum. Pretty scummy behaviour, but could be town who just tunneled a gut feeling way too hard I guess
Iggish - Opened discussion about who the vigilante could be (twice now, but if he's mafia, only once, because the first time was when he said Aqua [who he would have known to be mafia, if he were mafia himself] was vigilante), OTT (in my opinion) reaction to getting one vote, patterns of following the crowd previously in the game.
TWG - Mulb, a mafia member, chose to vote Aqua over him, even though TWG had enough votes to likely get lynched. It's possible mulb did this expecting TWG would inevitably be lynched and she'd look innocent, or did it because she decided lynching aqua was worth looking innocent herself, but the theory that both aqua and TWG were mafia is interesting. But then why would mulb choose aqua over TWG specifically? Besides from this speculation, the scummy things TWG has done is suggest a deal where we lynch me and if I turn out to be innocent we lynch the person who was suspicious of me (Iggish) which, if everyone had agreed to it, would be a perfect plan for a mafia member, since he would know that I was innocent and so would be able to go after iggish afterwards, assuming Iggish was innocent, killing off two townies. He's later admitted it was shortsighted of him to suggest such a thing, but said he was just so sure that iggish was mafia that he was willing to make a sacrifice to get him lynched. (Both TWG and foggy have done suspicious things based on having some kind of 'certainty' in their belief of someone to be mafia, which is kinda interesting). He also lurked (but is not the only one to do so [cough oak], only speaking when tagged or questioned, and made a post where he said that Aqua was guaranteed to be mafia - again, an oddly certain assumption for him to make, which he now says was a joke. His suspicions in general in that post were odd to me to, like he said he was suspicious of Unu just because you never know who could be mafia. It felt like an attempt to look helpful and scum-hunting when it wasn't. But he is new so could be due to that.
HKCaper - playstyle quite drastically changed from last game, defended Iggish against talking about the vigilante, saying he had vibes that when he asked about the vigilante earlier, it was a genuine question of curiosity, which meant he didn't know aqua was mafia, which meant Iggish is town. Again, seemed kinda odd how he was willing to trust Iggish just because he had a feeling that Iggish was telling the truth. Where did this feeling come from? Why was he not more questioning of the situation? He just seemed to dismiss it and say he believed Iggish was innocent because he believed it, and it felt like a weak attempt at defending someone, either because HKcaper is mafia and wants to defend a townie Iggish to look good if he's lynched and so threw some random vibe defense his way, or because he's defending his mafia buddy, or he's town and it's just what he genuinely believes.
Ender - Defended Aqua, showed signs of being partners with Aqua.
Unusual_dood - can't find anything I find scummy, I town-read him a lot actually.
Oak63 - lurked, voted me because confusion was stemming from my posts or something, but I have a feeling it was because he wanted to bandwagon me and get an easy lynch since the more votes I got, the more others were probably inclined to vote along, since I was the viable option at the time and there weren't many leads.
Notty + Oog - cult leaders, have completely different agenda, but I know oog's at least not a mafia-sided cult leader.
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I just wanted to lynch someone to get the game moving. As a result, I hopped on the majority bandwagon as I unvoted for you and voted for jivvi instead.
The fact that hipman was killed during the night when you were suspicious of him makes me think that you (and your fellow mafia group?) had a hand to play in his death.
To carry on from my suspicions from day 1, I still find inf very suspicious and the fact that hipman was killed during the night strengthens my resolve that he should be lynched.
Vote Infected_Alien
*coughs to get the attention of the people* Ok so I don't really know how to read the kill on hip, yes day one I was voting Inf just for the sake of voting Inf, however, now I am unsure as to whether he is Town or Mafia (inb4 we lynch him and he is vigilante or Doctor and goes on a caps lock passive aggressive typing spree). On the one hand going killing Hip would have been the easy option as Inf has said to frame him, but at the same time that could be a strategy to kill somebody else off. In addition at this point in the game I am wondering if killing inf off would really accomplish anything, like we could always create theories on everybody and then work out from there who is suspicious and Inf could always be the default Lynch in the case of the 'we have nothing' or if we accidentally lynch another Town sided player next day we can kill him off...
Hmmmmmmmm interesting (I quoted these before I read HK's post so yeah enjoy them a second time)
Enough to kill us off 1 by 1 at night?
Also Notty, if your 'theory' is to be believed and you are in fact the Anti-communist party then surely Ooglie is now part of your cult? Also this is partially because he's scummy and partially to prove to you that I'm not a part of no cult, nor do I care for anybody
Vote Infected
"I'm confused - why does the fact that I found hip to be suspicious re-enforce the theory that I'm mafia? I'm the mafia, I know who's evil and who isn't...? I mean you could argue I thought that hip was cultist but as mafia why would I care so much about the cult to waste our N1 kill on them?" -Inf
Well you said that you know when hip is mafia because they act differently. You were suspicious of them and as a result, trying to get other people to lynch hip. My guess is that you wanted hip killed and so did it with your mafioso buddies at night.
(Also, can someone tell me if hip is a good mafia player? If inf (not even him necessarily, anyone) knew that hip was not on their team then they'd try to take out the most influential players even though they might not have had a strong role.)
Well maybe you wanted hip to die in the day so you could then kill another person at night? From a mafia perspective, the more down townies the better right? Maybe you found hip the most suspicious of being a high town role and so wanted to get rid of him. As it didn't work during the day, you had to kill him at night instead of someone else who you could've gone for if hip had been lynched.
While I do still find you suspicious, I agree with hk that there are also other mafia which we should be going after. In my opinion there are quite a few people not replying to this thread very often and as a result, are trying to slip under the radar.
TheWeakGuy is an example of this. He doesn't seem to talk unless asked a question and just lets the game play out around him, hoping not to be pointed out. I'd like to know his thoughts on what's happening at the moment and who he thinks is suspicious.
So, coming with my thoughts. Here we go:
The first day, cults were (if I remember correctly) the first thing we started to discuss. Samlen very early suggested that we should get rid of cults, because they might tear apart the town trying to kill each other. A few others quickly agreed (one of them me). However, after a little while, a few people including me started to question if cults really were a threat, which is something I now believe they are not. I believe the cults instead will be on townies’ advantage and it is the reason why there are 5 mafias against 11 town sided players (like in comparison with the last mafia game there were 3 mafia sided roles against 10 townies). Think of the game without the cults. I think it seem quite unbalanced with a lot of mafias and difficult to survive for townies. I am not entirely sure how it would help the townies, but do think the inside talks in the cults will make it easier to eliminate possible mafia candidates later.
Infected and Ender early said that we should share if we are cult leaders, but I honestly think that would be a bad idea. We could get to know two likely cult leaders (a mafia could also be saying he is a cult leader) and town sided players, but I believe the mafias would target them, because, as I have pointed out, inside talks might be an advantage for townies. That was also why a cult leader would share his/her role, and it seemed pretty risky.
However, with the cults we can for certain know that when there are two people in a cult, the other person will know that he is a cult leader (as long as he hasn’t been killed yet).
So, if the Patriot leader and the Glorious Communist leader chose different people this, and not Hip this night, there will be two players here that can for certain know one leader/town-sided player each. They could be both mafias and townies though, however, I find it more likely for a cult leader to choose someone he/she town-reads, in order to not get killed the next night. So, that means there could 2 and 2 trusting each other, and voting together now.
My biggest theory at the moment is that HKCaper is a cult leader, and chose to get Infected to his cult. They both seem to have changed their votes, and HK said:
Over to Hip’s death. Since there was only one death this night, either the Mafia failed to kill a player (because of the doctor) or the vigilante failed to kill (because of the doctor) or chose to not kill. While this is my first game, I would think it would be likely that if a vigilante chose to kill, he would kill a relatively active player, since they are bigger threats. Therefore, I think Hip was killed by a mafia. If that is correct, the vigilante either failed to kill or chose to not kill. A vigilante might have chose to not kill, because it could kill a townie.
My theory for why Hip was killed, was because the mafias might have thought he was a cult leader. He said this first day, and did suspect him of being a cult leader.
At the end, when you are saying he killed Hip because he could be a high-roled/strong player, you are forgetting that Infected also could be a vigilante trying to kill a mafia.
Why do you 'strongly' believe I'm mafia just because of the joke though? Like, even aqua has admitted that this reason is trashy now, why can't you do the same ;-;
Sorry but I'm very much aware that I have the most votes and I'm trying to 1) understand why and 2) get them off me
It's a mix of the joke, and the way you're acting you seem TOO cheesy... I can't say 100% cause im not cop 
but I have them VIBES
Once again I feel that you try to remove suspicion from yourself by using jokes and trying to laugh it off... but I do know how out of the game you are also really cringy and bad at jokes... and I can't tell if your cringe levels are increased by the game in general or the fact that you are either Mafia or a Town PR and want to 'do something' this game...
I find this an interesting point. Due to the fact that Inffy could quite possibly have been 'framed' due to his suspicions on Hip. However, you could take this the other way and say that by having the option to 'Frame' himself he is reducing the suspicion. Also Inf has stated how he felt that Hip was acting differently, perhaps this is true, but in the respect that Inf is Maf and was convinced that Hip was a Town PR and therefore by either getting him lynched or killing him day one he would have eliminated a threat for his team. This is one of the main reasons I am keeping my vote on Inf. Yes, I think that he is trying too hard to be town and that some of his terrible jokes are an attempt to make people think that he is friendly, yet the idea of Hip being killed when only he showed real suspicion on him is a little too suspicious for me.
I admit on day 0 I voted Inf for bants because of his terrible joke. However, he was the only person to say that Hip was acting suspiciously and now Hip is dead. I'm saying my theory is he is mafia and thought Hip was a Town PR role and tried to get him lynched, but when that didn't go through he night killed Hip in the hopes of saving his heiny
Mhm honestly I have a hard time understanding why you have put me together with Foggy and Iggy (mostly Foggy). Yes I have been giving Inffy a hard time, but he has given me a hard time as well. Besides I gave my opinion on hipman lynch once at start of day, I didnt see really think Inffy had anything to do with, just didnt agree with his vigilante theory, and havent mentioned it since that 1 discussion, so I really dont see why you are comparing me to Foggy.
And again, something I tried to express in my previous post, I do definetly not agree with the fact that you compare me to Foggy, looking at our views on Inffy. I want to remind you, that I did not go after Inffy immediately, and make clear that I was never part of the LynchInffyHype. After Inffy had been 'harassing'(little bit strong word for effect sake, more like constant focus on me) me, I started becoming suspicious of him. Not simply because he was going after me, but mostly because he went after me after he got attacked himself, only for the reason he thought I played different, something I will go into in a bit. For the whole Hip thing, yes I mentioned it, but I said I did not think Inffy had anything to do with it. I had a discussion with Inffy about it, only about the vigilante thing, unlike Foggy who has been mentioning it extensivley and does think Inffy is mafia because of it (correct me if I am wrong, gotta hurry).
All parts of this sentence do not make sense. Do I really have to keep saying that I was not part of the Inffy lynch hype at start, but just an individual suspecting Inffy? I had already expressed my suspicions of you before Iggish voted you, placed my vote on you, since it seemed to be Aqua (who I do not really suspect atm), Inffy or you getting lynched(please just read my posts carefully before making statements about me). Also whenever I voted Iggish and expressed my suspicions for him, I mentioned why I did, so do not give me this.
Ty.
Okay so I just had a quick scan through yesterday looking at, primarily, Hk's and fog's post, and I found a couple of things which aren't that useful but just want to point them out because I spent lots of time searching through so I wanna share something ;-;
For foggy, all I found was what I already knew, which was that his reasons for voting me constantly changed and depended on what the most popular theory about me was at the time -went from based on my
joke, to based on
hip's death all of a sudden and being
reverse psychology to frame me since it wouldn't make sense for me to kill hip so I killed him to have that exact effect, then when someone else (i think Igg?) brought up the idea that maybe I thought
hip was PR, suddenly that became foggy's #1 reason for voting me
etc. He just changed his reasons all the time, which doesn't really mean anything other than what he's admitted himself, which is that he was just throwing whatever he could together to get me lynched because he was so sure I was mafia or something.
But Foggy2406 I swear you said today that the reason you thought I was mafia was because hip died? So why was your initial reason that I made a bad joke (which was the same reason as aqua)??? (For quotes based on this point, see
green text)
Another thing I found was that on the start of day 1 Iggish seemed to come into the day extremely eager to link me to hip's death and even vote me for it, almost as if he had already planned his argument at night, and killed hip so that he could use it against me. Obviously that's all complete speculation but the thought came into my head when I read over it. (See
Blue text)
Another thing I found was that unusual_dood made a post saying we shouldn't out cult leaders because they're beneficial to town, and then outs who he thinks the cult leader is, which is kinda strange I guess but not sure what we can conclude from that other than the possibility that he was setting up an argument that cults should be hidden so that he could later use it against either me or ender, but he slipped and showed that he didn't actually think this himself, which is why he outed his own suspicion, but this is just an extremely crazy theory that I don't even think makes sense and I town-read unusual_dood anyway and the only reason I included this was because I wanted to show off my work. (see the
pink text)
Then unusual said the thing in
gray which I don't recall ever happening, and reading it now it seems like he's saying that the mafia said d1 they thought hip was a cult leader, in which case that'd be a slip of him talking about mafia chat but I don't think that's the case and there's probably some reasonable explanation but it's there so I'm pointing it out.
Then the bit in
red in unusual's post is where he, like Iggish, talks about the potential identity of the vigilante, but instead of opening a discussion and trying to get ideas for who he could be, unusual just pointed out who he thought it could be, which I don't think is necessarily a sign of scum and moreso a sign of noobness since as scum you don't benefit from just pointing out who you think is vigilante and if you had an idea for who they were then you'd likely just keep it to yourself until night.
Next, the
brown/bronze/whatevercolourthatis quotes of HK are just when Ender and someone else grouped HK with other people pushing on me at the start of the day (iggish and foggy I believe) - HK's reaction just seemed a bit weird to me when I read over it again, almost like he was preparing for my death and did not want to be associated with the people pushing on me because he knew I'd flip innocent, so he was getting frustrated and trying to get people to see that he was in fact not pushing me. But he wasn't actually pushing on me tbh and he was right in that his reasons for voting me were different to Iggish' and fog's, despite voting me around the same time as igg (and maybe fog idk), and the frustration and panic that I perceive could just be that of a townie defending their truth or could just be nonexistant and just something I perceived.
Honestly I think this post is a whole lot of words and not a lot of content but I spent a long time trying to find leads so I wanted to have something to show for it!
Meanwhile,
Oak63's been online and I still await his answer as to why exactly he chose TWG over Aqua, as in the specifics not just a general 'I agree with what others said' thing <3
