Trouble in the West: Pirates vs Cowboys [Finished]

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cooliorules

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Today is not my day >_>

Even so, I don't think there would be more then one that can protect two people. I'm going to assume that std's role is what he said it is, about the matching alignment thing (damn that thing is confusing. Ugh.). Seems a bit overpowered for the town if they had two. Like one where you had to actually match the alignment, that's not so overpowered, but one where you just pick two people and they're protected from a dousing AS WELL as std, seems a bit much.
 

Timdood3

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I beg to differ. You're already given a power to douse as many people as possible and then set alight. Going with what Mafiawiki has explained the Arsonist to be, the ignition can only be used once. Why Priz would allow the Arsonist to reset his ignition seems like overkill. He's already a powerful character.
What I meant was say for example you had an SK running around for four days. He'd kill four people. If you had an arsonist running around for four days, lighting his targets every other night, he'd have killed two people.

Basically: It's not overpowered because it's less powerful than a serial killer because they have to take a night to light up all targets, which, if they're unlucky like Duffie, never die. The only thing to compensate for that is killing them all at once.
 

HypeBurst

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Today is not my day >_>

Even so, I don't think there would be more then one that can protect two people. I'm going to assume that std's role is what he said it is, about the matching alignment thing (damn that thing is confusing. Ugh.). Seems a bit overpowered for the town if they had two. Like one where you had to actually match the alignment, that's not so overpowered, but one where you just pick two people and they're protected from a dousing AS WELL as std, seems a bit much.
Having two protective roles is actually rather low tbh. In a game there's usually a regular doctor or two with a modification, a bodyguard and some other role like a a jack of trades that all have protective abilities. All of these people would protect against the same thing which is kills. Because in a regular game theres around three killings roles (mafia, S.K and Vig) they would have a a lot on their plates. But however in this game, it was split between the kills of mafia and the dousings of the arsonist. Since Std had the responsibility of protecting against a whole killing role by himself, he had the ability to protect two because instead of being able to protect against multiple roles, he could only protect against one. It was exactly the same for me, except the difference is that since he had to protect against certain death, he had the weakness of having to match alignments, whereas I don't have that because I'm only protecting against the higher probability of death.
 

Timdood3

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Std could protect (or kill) two people. You could protect two people from a dousing. That's protecting 4 people per night (or possible kill 2 protect 2).
Overkill?

What you're saying is basically the same thing as before. I've read it before, I don't need to be told it again.
Std couldn't directly kill people. However he could have doubled as a situational vigilante if he felt the need to (if he had been paying attention ;-; ). By choosing a player who was likely to die and someone that he thought was mafia, the kill would bypass the protection and also kill the selected mafia member. However, if the player was indeed town, the kill would be stopped, clearing both players when there turned up to be no kill. A very powerful role.

I say this because std basically had a triple role: Doctor, Vigilante, and Cop, with no real downside at all. We know as a fact that that's was his role, and yet it seems so overpowered. So why couldn't any other modified role be overpowered? Say for example...A firefighter? Which, in my opinion, isn't overpowered.

It is presumed that the Arsonist could douse one person per night, however it could have even been two, seeing as Hype could protect two. I don't think it's likely that Duffie could douse tow, however, given that Hype protected Ansoro from dousing, and no one else claimed to be doused that day. I feel like I get too off topic and into irrelevance when I explain things, but whatever. Duffie could only douse one person per night.

Personally, I don't think the Arsonist is even that powerful, seeing how Duffie could douse one and Hype can defend two. Nor is it even a question of the Firefighter's. It's a question of their power relative to each other, since they are very directly and specifically related. I do think that being able to protect two might be a bit overkill. Statistically, it halves the Arsonist's chances of getting a successful douse. Overall, the Firefighter is much more powerful that the arsonist as far as numbers go.

However! I think the balance comes in that since the Firefighter knows not who the Arsonist is, they can only randomly defend people because on the same card, they know not the Arsonists allegiance (they can only assume) and thus don't have any way to predict who the Arsonist would douse. Not at first anyways.

Class, that concludes today's possibly irrelevant lecture. I hope I explained why I believe the Firefighter to not be overpowered. Please write your questions down and bring them to class tomorrow.
 

cooliorules

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Std couldn't directly kill people
I know that, but it was a possibility that came with his role.

I've just had a think as well about the thing that happened last night when the lynch occurred. At the start of the game, Prizyms said there would be aspects to roles that were hidden. Maybe, just possibly, Samlen is what he says and then there was a hidden aspect of his role, which would possibly mean I also have one?
I'm tempted to say that you can test it out on me, but that may well and possibly cause the town the game... Bleh
 

Timdood3

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I know that, but it was a possibility that came with his role.

I've just had a think as well about the thing that happened last night when the lynch occurred. At the start of the game, Prizyms said there would be aspects to roles that were hidden. Maybe, just possibly, Samlen is what he says and then there was a hidden aspect of his role, which would possibly mean I also have one?
I'm tempted to say that you can test it out on me, but that may well and possibly cause the town the game... Bleh
You bring up a plausible theory, but nothing happened with Fiesta.
 

digi

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I feel that my attempt to make Hype look guilty is falling short and that my reasons for wanting to vote him out are weak. There is no proof for me to solidify a reasonable vote, yet here I am convinced that he isn't what he says he is. I can take Ender's explanation of Samlen's safe game play and say the same about Hype. He has been playing safe. He's been courteous and considerate, and I feel like a bully.
So he's the Firefighter who's sworn to protect two townspeople from being doused and if he's protected someone he gets the message saying that he's dun good - ok, I get that. If we're going off of Priz's whacky game play and how it seems like he's twisted roles, what if Hype's the Mafia Firefigher? You see, it's very town like of him to announce to us that there's an Arsonist, but the people that he's protected up until Duffie's death, what if one of them was Mafia? Sure, Ansoro's a friend but I also question his role claim. As for protecting Ender, was there another agenda or was it simply pick and choose?
 

Timdood3

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I feel that my attempt to make Hype look guilty is falling short and that my reasons for wanting to vote him out are weak. There is no proof for me to solidify a reasonable vote, yet here I am convinced that he isn't what he says he is. I can take Ender's explanation of Samlen's safe game play and say the same about Hype. He has been playing safe. He's been courteous and considerate, and I feel like a bully.
So he's the Firefighter who's sworn to protect two townspeople from being doused and if he's protected someone he gets the message saying that he's dun good - ok, I get that. If we're going off of Priz's whacky game play and how it seems like he's twisted roles, what if Hype's the Mafia Firefigher? You see, it's very town like of him to announce to us that there's an Arsonist, but the people that he's protected up until Duffie's death, what if one of them was Mafia? Sure, Ansoro's a friend but I also question his role claim. As for protecting Ender, was there another agenda or was it simply pick and choose?
Hmm...A mafia firefighter....Protecting pirates from a third party...I'm not sure how likely that is...

HOLD UP HOLD UP

Ansoro commutes away (almost) every night. Hype protected Ansoro night one. That means that Ansoro would have had to have not left on Night One. I find that....Unlikely, but not impossible.

You also seem to be implying that Ender is the informant based off of the fact that Hype protected him. This seems understandable to an extent, but you have to think about it this way: What use would the mafia have with an Informant when they already had a stalker? I can't think of much that would be balanced, to be honest. Not to mention that his play has been incredibly townlike as far as I can tell.

Personally, I'm convinced of neither Hype's nor Ansoro's alignment, however I'm pretty sure Ender is town.
 

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digitalmez If I was the mafia sided firefighter in a game where (other than std) there were no other killing roles other than the arsonist, now that would be the most overpowered role because I could protect basically half of my mafia friends every night. So the arsonist would basically only be able to douse the town. Thats just too much.
 

digi

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Hmm...A mafia firefighter....Protecting pirates from a third party...I'm not sure how likely that is...

HOLD UP HOLD UP

Ansoro commutes away (almost) every night. Hype protected Ansoro night one. That means that Ansoro would have had to have not left on Night One. I find that....Unlikely, but not impossible.

You also seem to be implying that Ender is the informant based off of the fact that Hype protected him. This seems understandable to an extent, but you have to think about it this way: What use would the mafia have with an Informant when they already had a stalker? I can't think of much that would be balanced, to be honest. Not to mention that his play has been incredibly townlike as far as I can tell.

Personally, I'm convinced of neither Hype's nor Ansoro's alignment, however I'm pretty sure Ender is town.
Ok then, he doesn't necessarily have to be the Firefighter to protect two people. I wrote that out as just a thought, but what if he was a protective role for Mafia? I believe that he's able to protect two people - I trust that, it just comes down to the people he protected.
 

HypeBurst

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Timdood3 And I actually was thinking that about Ansoro after he claimed commuter, but looking back at the message I received, all it says it that I protected a target of the arsonist (trying really hard not to quote), it doesnt really say anything about whether that person would have actually been doused without me or not. But idk it would be great to hear from ansoro2112 did you commute night 1?
 

Timdood3

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Timdood3 And I actually was thinking that about Ansoro after he claimed commuter, but looking back at the message I received, all it says it that I protected a target of the arsonist (trying really hard not to quote), it doesnt really say anything about whether that person would have actually been doused without me or not. But idk it would be great to hear from ansoro2112 did you commute night 1?
He mentioned having no control over his ability, I take it that means he has no knowledge of when it happens.
 
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