In addition to this, I'm also going to point out that it's highly unlikely that we'd have three town sided cops in this game without some serious negatives. There's usually an insane cop with only two cops in the town, and with this in mind, it still makes the most sense (to me at least) that Ooglie was, in fact, insane and that his investigation of GmK turned up innocent because GmK is a Pirate-sided rolecop.
Trouble in the West: Pirates vs Cowboys [Finished]
- Thread starter Prizyms
- Start date
- Status
Ansoro2112
Hottie
All of this happens when I'm at work :_:
My name is Roamer Randolph and my role is Commuter.
I'm practically almost invincible at night. By that I mean that I go away every night and IF someone at night tries to kill me then it won't happen.
Now, I mentioned the word "Almost" because there can be some nights that ability of mine won't work and if someone tries to kill me then I will die. (I don't know when it's going to work and when it's not) All I know is that is most likely for it to work rather than not working.
In case of the doubt, yes, I'm town sided and I have no night actions.
I CAN get lynched.
And if I'm "hit" by someone at night I won't know.
And no, I'm not part of any inn. Maybe because I always "go away" every night? I don't know.
I was avoiding all game to get to the point to claim because if Mafia doesn't know about my role then it would be great for them to target me and that way they will end up losing since it's most likely that I won't die but since today is "Mass Claiming Day" then here it goes.
Now let me read today's post more clearly!
My name is Roamer Randolph and my role is Commuter.
I'm practically almost invincible at night. By that I mean that I go away every night and IF someone at night tries to kill me then it won't happen.
Now, I mentioned the word "Almost" because there can be some nights that ability of mine won't work and if someone tries to kill me then I will die. (I don't know when it's going to work and when it's not) All I know is that is most likely for it to work rather than not working.
In case of the doubt, yes, I'm town sided and I have no night actions.
I CAN get lynched.
And if I'm "hit" by someone at night I won't know.
And no, I'm not part of any inn. Maybe because I always "go away" every night? I don't know.
I was avoiding all game to get to the point to claim because if Mafia doesn't know about my role then it would be great for them to target me and that way they will end up losing since it's most likely that I won't die but since today is "Mass Claiming Day" then here it goes.
------------
Now let me read today's post more clearly!
Do you commute on a horse? x3
Where would someone even go in the wild west? To go visit the mysterious pirate ship? xD
Disclaimer: I'm not disbelieving your claim (yet), just making jokes
cooliorules
That Awkward Noodle
Fos for JK gone. Going to also say that he is innkeeper.
What happened in m inn last night:
-I was asked the name of my role
-Samlen claimed blue (Tumbleweed ~something~ (on phone and using 3G so bit hard to check)
-Have a fos against GmK
-Samlen comes up with some theory thing which I don't understand woo.
I find it sketchy that Samlen just asked for the name of my role (which is, as JK said, Tumbleweed Timothy) before he said what his was.
He said it was I check if it was true. I'm sorry but I don't believe you at all Samlen, and no I don't trust you.
Anyway I'm tired and worn out and bleh from camp so I'll reply tomorrow most likely
What happened in m inn last night:
-I was asked the name of my role
-Samlen claimed blue (Tumbleweed ~something~ (on phone and using 3G so bit hard to check)
-Have a fos against GmK
-Samlen comes up with some theory thing which I don't understand woo.
I find it sketchy that Samlen just asked for the name of my role (which is, as JK said, Tumbleweed Timothy) before he said what his was.
He said it was I check if it was true. I'm sorry but I don't believe you at all Samlen, and no I don't trust you.
Anyway I'm tired and worn out and bleh from camp so I'll reply tomorrow most likely
cooliorules
That Awkward Noodle
Also, just to point out, my fos in completely gone because he has described (accurately as heck, I may point out) my claim, samlen's claim, as well as the little "what's your name" thing.
Just making that clear.
Just making that clear.
GmK
International Man Of Cake
Soooo, it's crunchtime ^^
- People are bent on the "one scum per inn" theory and no matter what, after stating to be the last member I am pretty sure no matter what I do would still have people go "last member, must be scum". It's a risk I did not want to take until I make a role discovery that leads to a lynch of scum
- I stated in my inn (paraphrasing) that it's terrible to be a role cop in this game: Neither are roles typical (so when being given a role it doesn't really fully help by itself, since they're so mixed up) nor is role cop typically a town sided role but scum.
But that leads me to one theory that I have now "confirmed" to myself I will outline further below: In this game it seems that the roles that are clasically a certain alignment are most likely to be of an opposite alignment than the "wiki" would tell you. Role cop often scum? Let's make it town this game to give the player hell once he claims (thanks Priz!) More about that later.
---
But first let me give an overview of my actions and my "proof". I had hoped that you, endersteve, would not have claimed yet, since I investigated you last night, and was hoping to use my knowledge of your role to prove my own claim. JKang will know (seeing how he seems to receive all inn chat) that I was torn inbetween investigating endersteve (due to the sudden jump on my std vote) and JKang, whom I at the time of last night believed to be a potential powerful scum PR hiding behind the walls of logic. Even if I would have picked JKang to investigate it would have been moot, since he also claimed already. So the following will be immediately criticised now with "these are all so convenient investigations, no way for us to proof it, you made them up". I guess I have to live with that risk
Anyhow, let me paraphrase what I told Ooglie:
- First Night I checked OMO, since we were all suspicious of him on Day 0 for all that happened. I was told "Janitor", so I thought "Janitor is a scum role!!!" and was bent to vote him. I could not believe my luck to have found a typical scum role on N1. That was until he claimed, convincingly, to be a pro-town role. And my suspected luck seemed to crumble. If people refer back to everything I posted, you will often find statements like this:
Once again: Janitor is usually a scum role, in this game it was a pro-town role that ends up hiding all roles and alignments. I guess OMO himself was wary of the fact that his role is usually seen as scum.
- N2 I checked Duffie, since his quiet lurking and posts did make him suspicious in my mind and I wanted closure. Was told "Arsonist", and no matter how you turn that around, that does not seem pro-town at all, the risk that he might accidently kill half the town and not one scum were too high imho. That's why I went out all guns blazing to vote him, but had to somehow find some reasons to vote him since crap, I cannot flat out claim, it's too dangerous at that point in the game. Once again I tried everything to tell experienced people that I am a role cop, that I checked Duffie, and that my reasoning is just the facade I need to justify the vote.
- N3 I checked Ooglie. He posted during D3 (I get confused with which day is which due to the jump we had at some point with the party, please excuse if some might be off) that he suspects his room mate. This is when I decided to investigate him and was told "Alignment cop".
Once again, once Ooglie claimed the next day:
Three cops in one inn was completely on purpose for us to either end up distrusting each other and his claim and invesitgations, or to trust each other and use the combined power. I assume Prizyms was hoping that it would take a while for us to figure out we're three cops and build trust...
- N4 (partynight, or?) I checked digi, due to the obvious reason of Ooglies claim during the day and the statement of digi being guilty. I was told "Ghoul" - sometimes a town sided role, sometimes not. Of course, only knowing the role sucks ass, since you can never know if it's scum or town sided, which is why during D4 I was so torn inbetween voting digi and not voting digi
- N5 I ended up checking endersteve, the Journalist. Reasoning for that is above. Who I cannot use to proof my claim now, since he already claimed. D'oh.
But I hope that with my quotes, combined with what JKang now apparently knows from the Inn chats, that my basic roleclaim is not debatable.
----
One quick excurse: Why wasn't I killed by scum yet, seeing how I am a powerful player that is a risk to scum, why didn't they get rid of me earlier?
I was wondering the same thing, but then: Why wasn't JKang killed, why wasn't endersteve killed, both just as skilled as I am at the game? I assume it's a wrong fallacy (if I use the word correct) to assume "powerful player not killed, must be scum, else he would be dead by now).
I have a potential theory as to why I (and the other two) weren't targeted yet: We might not have been a danger to scum as of now! Maybe all my FOS so far were never targetting scum, and it looks like I involuntarily "helped" them by never voting one of them so far. So one thing I want to do is look at all the people I have not deemed suspicious and see if that group can make up our scum group.
It's a weak theory, but one that makes sense within the idea of "killing powerful players", why kill them if they actually lead bandwagons on dangers to scum or other town people? std comes to mind, and at this point I am pretty sure that the bandwagon on std includes a few scum, seeing how I gave them a blanket shot at somebody that is town...
---
Now, whilst I am sad that endersteve claimed so I couldn't prove myself, it held an invaluable piece of a puzzle:
"GmK is innocent", the missing investigation by Ooglie.
- As I stated above, I believe that typical scum roles are town sided this game and typical town roles are scum sided - at least to some extent. E.g. Janitor and Role cop are town sided this game...and Ghoul: scumsided.
- Seeing that Ooglie got the result of my innocence proves to me that he was only lazy, just as JKang notioned all along. All the physical proof we have (physical being written information) points to Ooglie being lazy, but none confirms him being insane, which to me now, knowing the investigation ender posted, buries the insanity once and for all. (and we still don't know about Jivvi, if I see it correctly Jivvi might have very well been insane instead of Ooglie)
- This is assuming ender didn't make the above up to discredit me and actually being scum himself, but I trust him being town enough currently to not think along those lines
So what does that mean?
Digi is indeed guilty. But why would scum need a ghoul? Easy answer: To protect them against sk/vig roles to some basic extent. "But GmK, there is no vig!?"...well we don't know if we had one! Swate, who turned up innocent on Ooglies investigation (innocent being the same thing a cop gets when the role is third party) By this point I am very sure Swate was some kind of vigilante role, and used his strange and weak claim to distract from that. Combined with the inexperience of playing forum mafia it lead to his downfall.
The only logical thing for me to do at this point, which is purely based on the information ender gave, is to vote Digi. Ooglie was indeed only lazy, Swate by this innocent or third party and imho a vig style role, Digi is the scum ghoul to "protect" him from attacks and use it to redirect kill attempts to town.
---
---
So for now:
vote digitalmez
Well gee, thanks for stealing my thunder </3 This post is now slightly anticlimatic :D
Well, and now you know why I did not openly state that I am the last remaining inn member of my inn.
- People are bent on the "one scum per inn" theory and no matter what, after stating to be the last member I am pretty sure no matter what I do would still have people go "last member, must be scum". It's a risk I did not want to take until I make a role discovery that leads to a lynch of scum
- I stated in my inn (paraphrasing) that it's terrible to be a role cop in this game: Neither are roles typical (so when being given a role it doesn't really fully help by itself, since they're so mixed up) nor is role cop typically a town sided role but scum.
But that leads me to one theory that I have now "confirmed" to myself I will outline further below: In this game it seems that the roles that are clasically a certain alignment are most likely to be of an opposite alignment than the "wiki" would tell you. Role cop often scum? Let's make it town this game to give the player hell once he claims (thanks Priz!) More about that later.
Why do all of us only ever assume Ooglie might have been the insane one? Nobody ever wonders if Jivvi was insane. Not sure if I missed a memo somewhere, but do we have proof that Jivvi wasn't insane? (if we do, sorry, I did a quick glance at some posts but didn't find anything about it)
---
But first let me give an overview of my actions and my "proof". I had hoped that you, endersteve, would not have claimed yet, since I investigated you last night, and was hoping to use my knowledge of your role to prove my own claim. JKang will know (seeing how he seems to receive all inn chat) that I was torn inbetween investigating endersteve (due to the sudden jump on my std vote) and JKang, whom I at the time of last night believed to be a potential powerful scum PR hiding behind the walls of logic. Even if I would have picked JKang to investigate it would have been moot, since he also claimed already. So the following will be immediately criticised now with "these are all so convenient investigations, no way for us to proof it, you made them up". I guess I have to live with that risk
Anyhow, let me paraphrase what I told Ooglie:
- First Night I checked OMO, since we were all suspicious of him on Day 0 for all that happened. I was told "Janitor", so I thought "Janitor is a scum role!!!" and was bent to vote him. I could not believe my luck to have found a typical scum role on N1. That was until he claimed, convincingly, to be a pro-town role. And my suspected luck seemed to crumble. If people refer back to everything I posted, you will often find statements like this:
(bolding by me). This is where I began to place markers all over the place to other town PRs that I am a role cop, hoping that someone would pick up on my tells.
Once again: Janitor is usually a scum role, in this game it was a pro-town role that ends up hiding all roles and alignments. I guess OMO himself was wary of the fact that his role is usually seen as scum.
- N2 I checked Duffie, since his quiet lurking and posts did make him suspicious in my mind and I wanted closure. Was told "Arsonist", and no matter how you turn that around, that does not seem pro-town at all, the risk that he might accidently kill half the town and not one scum were too high imho. That's why I went out all guns blazing to vote him, but had to somehow find some reasons to vote him since crap, I cannot flat out claim, it's too dangerous at that point in the game. Once again I tried everything to tell experienced people that I am a role cop, that I checked Duffie, and that my reasoning is just the facade I need to justify the vote.
(especially since people were voting me off, I was purely hoping that those that know the game realise my value before I get booted). People accused me of random rash voting D0 and D1, and yes, it was random and rash, but it was to find potential scum PRs (who never like to be targeted) to investigate.
- N3 I checked Ooglie. He posted during D3 (I get confused with which day is which due to the jump we had at some point with the party, please excuse if some might be off) that he suspects his room mate. This is when I decided to investigate him and was told "Alignment cop".
Once again, once Ooglie claimed the next day:
The next night was when I claimed to him in the inn, and this is where I notion what JKang has posted yesterday:
Three cops in one inn was completely on purpose for us to either end up distrusting each other and his claim and invesitgations, or to trust each other and use the combined power. I assume Prizyms was hoping that it would take a while for us to figure out we're three cops and build trust...
- N4 (partynight, or?) I checked digi, due to the obvious reason of Ooglies claim during the day and the statement of digi being guilty. I was told "Ghoul" - sometimes a town sided role, sometimes not. Of course, only knowing the role sucks ass, since you can never know if it's scum or town sided, which is why during D4 I was so torn inbetween voting digi and not voting digi
More about the digi situation later, it is a pivotal point!
- N5 I ended up checking endersteve, the Journalist. Reasoning for that is above. Who I cannot use to proof my claim now, since he already claimed. D'oh.
But I hope that with my quotes, combined with what JKang now apparently knows from the Inn chats, that my basic roleclaim is not debatable.
----
One quick excurse: Why wasn't I killed by scum yet, seeing how I am a powerful player that is a risk to scum, why didn't they get rid of me earlier?
I was wondering the same thing, but then: Why wasn't JKang killed, why wasn't endersteve killed, both just as skilled as I am at the game? I assume it's a wrong fallacy (if I use the word correct) to assume "powerful player not killed, must be scum, else he would be dead by now).
I have a potential theory as to why I (and the other two) weren't targeted yet: We might not have been a danger to scum as of now! Maybe all my FOS so far were never targetting scum, and it looks like I involuntarily "helped" them by never voting one of them so far. So one thing I want to do is look at all the people I have not deemed suspicious and see if that group can make up our scum group.
It's a weak theory, but one that makes sense within the idea of "killing powerful players", why kill them if they actually lead bandwagons on dangers to scum or other town people? std comes to mind, and at this point I am pretty sure that the bandwagon on std includes a few scum, seeing how I gave them a blanket shot at somebody that is town...
---
Now, whilst I am sad that endersteve claimed so I couldn't prove myself, it held an invaluable piece of a puzzle:
"GmK is innocent", the missing investigation by Ooglie.
- As I stated above, I believe that typical scum roles are town sided this game and typical town roles are scum sided - at least to some extent. E.g. Janitor and Role cop are town sided this game...and Ghoul: scumsided.
- Seeing that Ooglie got the result of my innocence proves to me that he was only lazy, just as JKang notioned all along. All the physical proof we have (physical being written information) points to Ooglie being lazy, but none confirms him being insane, which to me now, knowing the investigation ender posted, buries the insanity once and for all. (and we still don't know about Jivvi, if I see it correctly Jivvi might have very well been insane instead of Ooglie)
- This is assuming ender didn't make the above up to discredit me and actually being scum himself, but I trust him being town enough currently to not think along those lines
So what does that mean?
Digi is indeed guilty. But why would scum need a ghoul? Easy answer: To protect them against sk/vig roles to some basic extent. "But GmK, there is no vig!?"...well we don't know if we had one! Swate, who turned up innocent on Ooglies investigation (innocent being the same thing a cop gets when the role is third party) By this point I am very sure Swate was some kind of vigilante role, and used his strange and weak claim to distract from that. Combined with the inexperience of playing forum mafia it lead to his downfall.
The only logical thing for me to do at this point, which is purely based on the information ender gave, is to vote Digi. Ooglie was indeed only lazy, Swate by this innocent or third party and imho a vig style role, Digi is the scum ghoul to "protect" him from attacks and use it to redirect kill attempts to town.
---
Going by my theory that I personally believe strongly by now, the usual role of town sided party host could be scum sided this game (as I have already suspected with further reasoning 1-2 days ago) Combined with such a type of vote, which is in a big alarming "wtf" style, I want to at least get town to remember it if I am lynched. Remember the theory, it could end up saving town.
---
So for now:
vote digitalmez
GmK
International Man Of Cake
(one small thing: ooglie was killed during the partynight. But ender claims to have received an investigation result during that night. Is that even possible, seeing how Ooglie was basically dead? Since this delves into game mechanics (not PM mechanics, there is a difference) I cannot use it for anything, but it does seem slightly weird at least!)
HypeBurst
Just Fabulous
Ok guess this is mass claim day, since my role is useless now I may as well.
My name is Courageous Caleb the Fire fighter
I protect TWO people at night from being doused by the arsonist - I can't protect against anything else unfortunately. If I successfully protected someone from being doused then I would receive the message that I dun good. So with Pyro Pete killed, I had no ability and thus don't receive any status messages after night 2. I think Priz expected the arsonist to make it a little bit longer in this game but luckily he didnt last long.
The downside to my role is that if the arsonist was to set off his fire, whether I was doused or not, I would commit suicide that night because I failed at my job to protect the town.
Now remember that last piece of information when I make this confession, I was not doused on night 1. Yep, anyone sceptical of me being doused was actually right to suspect me. However this wasn't malicious at all. On the first night, I decided to protect Ansoro and Notty because Andres is my friend outside this game and after last game I knew Notty was going to be a target. Duffie actually targeted Ansoro for the first dousing but since I protected him, he didnt get gasolined. When I received that piece of information, I was happy that I did my job but I was also frightened because there wouldn't be anyone to say they were doused on night one and thus the town wouldn't know of the arsonist. So I decided to alert everyone to it by saying that I was actually doused by him.
Along with alerting everyone to the existence of the arsonist, I was also hoping to see who would act surprised to simply "different" to the fact I was stating that I was doused. I watched coolio because she seemed to certain I wasn't doused so it made me wonder if she was the arsonist. But when Jivvi came out with his really unlikely claim, I was basically certain that he was lying. Then after I made my vote for him, he came after me in a really passive aggressive way, saying that essentially, my dousing claim was bullshit. This put up big red flags for me and he was saying these theories that seemed like he knew more about the arsonist role than he let on, so I went after him at that point which created probably one of the most heated arguments in blocktopia mafia history. After he got killed at night, it turned out I was wrong on my suspicion that he was the arsonist, so I decided to take a step back and watch the game from a more calculated perspective.
2nd night I protected Ender, and Ansoro again incase the arsonist came back to finish the job, but I guess he went after Storm instead.
After that night, Duffie was lynched and I honestly was surprised he was the arsonist, I expected mafia but I'll take what I can get. And after that I had no more abilities and became just like another tumble weed (ender why didnt you investigate me the first night so you could see my heroism :c )
Now I know I put a lot in this post and it may seem confusing so if anyone has questions, Ill reply tomorrow morning because I'm tired as all fuck.
My name is Courageous Caleb the Fire fighter
I protect TWO people at night from being doused by the arsonist - I can't protect against anything else unfortunately. If I successfully protected someone from being doused then I would receive the message that I dun good. So with Pyro Pete killed, I had no ability and thus don't receive any status messages after night 2. I think Priz expected the arsonist to make it a little bit longer in this game but luckily he didnt last long.
The downside to my role is that if the arsonist was to set off his fire, whether I was doused or not, I would commit suicide that night because I failed at my job to protect the town.
Now remember that last piece of information when I make this confession, I was not doused on night 1. Yep, anyone sceptical of me being doused was actually right to suspect me. However this wasn't malicious at all. On the first night, I decided to protect Ansoro and Notty because Andres is my friend outside this game and after last game I knew Notty was going to be a target. Duffie actually targeted Ansoro for the first dousing but since I protected him, he didnt get gasolined. When I received that piece of information, I was happy that I did my job but I was also frightened because there wouldn't be anyone to say they were doused on night one and thus the town wouldn't know of the arsonist. So I decided to alert everyone to it by saying that I was actually doused by him.
Along with alerting everyone to the existence of the arsonist, I was also hoping to see who would act surprised to simply "different" to the fact I was stating that I was doused. I watched coolio because she seemed to certain I wasn't doused so it made me wonder if she was the arsonist. But when Jivvi came out with his really unlikely claim, I was basically certain that he was lying. Then after I made my vote for him, he came after me in a really passive aggressive way, saying that essentially, my dousing claim was bullshit. This put up big red flags for me and he was saying these theories that seemed like he knew more about the arsonist role than he let on, so I went after him at that point which created probably one of the most heated arguments in blocktopia mafia history. After he got killed at night, it turned out I was wrong on my suspicion that he was the arsonist, so I decided to take a step back and watch the game from a more calculated perspective.
2nd night I protected Ender, and Ansoro again incase the arsonist came back to finish the job, but I guess he went after Storm instead.
After that night, Duffie was lynched and I honestly was surprised he was the arsonist, I expected mafia but I'll take what I can get. And after that I had no more abilities and became just like another tumble weed (ender why didnt you investigate me the first night so you could see my heroism :c )
Now I know I put a lot in this post and it may seem confusing so if anyone has questions, Ill reply tomorrow morning because I'm tired as all fuck.
Enderfive
sarcasm incarnate
Ok, this is all good stuff, I can work with a lot of it. Going to analyze the posts and theories that have come up now after my claim in the order they came up, so first up: Samlen.
Samlen's post was essentially "Ok, Ender is town, GmK is mafia, we're all town in my inn, won't make a lynch yet but I think I might vote Kake today, and I'll think about who the other mafia might be". He did nothing but second all the popular opinion from this day and the previous and say that they're all inno in his inn. He stated that he's practically convinced by my post that GmK is guilty and should hang, yet didn't vote. Even after his other post today, which (apparently) expressed his even further strenghtened belief that GmK is guilty, he didn't vote. Why?
I believe the reason is that there are simply too few people voting for GmK for Samlen to consider it a "safe" vote. The train is simply too small for him to feel safe casting his vote in a way that wouldn't draw suspicion on himself, or maybe he doesn't want to be the third vote and put suspicion on himself in that way. And honestly, I've begun to think that this is what the majority of his posts are. Very little new logic that would help us, always bringing up either the popular (or at least stated before by someone else that seems like a town member) opinion or the obvious choice for a townie to say, such as "I think the lurkers should speak up" or some math that proves the theory that is popular at the moment. He has been playing this game very safe and carefully so far. A little too safe, if you ask me. I can't quite explain it more than that, but I'm starting to feel like there's something very off about Samlen. A little too calculated, a little too eager to seem town-like and a little too interested in his own well-being rather than the success of the town, especially for someone that claims vanilla townie.
Moving on to Jkangaroo's latest novel.
Besides the fact that Jkang is indeed the Innkeeper (I'll leave the alignment to someone else to theoretize about), there are two things that I feel are of importance in his post. The claims. Samlen and GmK.
Apparently, GmK claimed rolecop inside the inn. I anticipated that. I had picked up on his hints that he left, especially the fact that he knew about Duffie being the Arsonist (even though he didn't outright say it in the thread, he hinted it very, very strongly), and I made the only reasonable conclusion: GmK is indeed a rolecop. Now, the problem is, what is his alignment?
Rolecops are very often scum. That's a fact. There are practically no games that have 3 cops (alignment or rolecops, doesn't matter), that are all town and all operate the way that the way that you'd expect a regular cop to work. That's a fact too. We already know that we have 2 confirmed town cops in this game, both of whom were alignment cops (or at least that's what every piece of evidence we can get our hands on suggests), one of those was lazy. Whether or not he was insane, we don't know. We don't even know if there was an insane cop in the game to begin with. Maybe it was just our minds making it up in hopes of Swate being a justified lynch in that manner.
In any case, the question of GmK's alignment stays open, and I find myself in a point where I feel like it could be either one, 50% chance of it being one and 50% other, because my opinion on whether or not Ooglie was insane or not has been rocked so badly by the posts made on this day that I feel like it's best for me and the town if I leave that there for the time being, because I'm all out of ideas to bring some clarity to the issue.
That also means that I feel the exact same way about Digi, because Digi and GmK are obviously of different alignments, unless Ooglie was a Random Cop, but I hope that even Priz wouldn't be that evil.
However, the thing that really sets me off in Jk's post, and Coolio's post as well a little while after, is the fact that Samlen asked for Coolio's role name before claiming to be Tumbleweed Travis (...I think that was it...?), which is yet another vanilla townie. Why did he ask for Coolio's role name?
I feel like there's only one reasonable explanation: Samlen isn't Tumbleweed Travis and is lying about his role. He was only trying to make his own claim more believable by making sure that his (made-up) role name would fit whatever names Fiesta and Coolio had. Vanilla Townie is one of the easiest roles to pretend to be, especially if he's Vanilla Mafia, which is a possibility in my opinion, considering the fact that he didn't use any abilities last night. There would be no reason for Samlen to lie about his role and be town at the same time, unless he's a Doctor or a Vig, which I very highly doubt at this point. The only reasonable conclusion is that he is either third-party or mafia, and considering the amount of third-parties we've already seen in this game, I'd regard that option to be highly unlikely as well, meaning that Samlen is a mafia.
Tim says he's a Survivor, a 3rd party. Okay, I find the claim believable. He has, as far as I've noticed him, played like I would expect a Survivor to play. That does mean that we have to be careful about him, since he will most likely take the chance to win with the mafia if given the chance.
77 seems to be as quiet as ever, following my lead without providing any explanation whatsoever. I guess it's somewhat understandable if we would believe his claim of being the party host, since he doesn't have any other abilities, but seriously though, I'd expect you to at least give some explanation, not just "meh, let's vote him". I can't help but wonder if you're playing like this specifically to keep anyone from being able to form any kind of an opinion on you. (It would seem you just unvoted though as I was writing the next bit about Anso, so yeah, but I feel like my point still stands.)
Ansoro seems to be a Commuter. Or so he says. I honestly find it a little questionable, to have 2 town players that are essentially immune to night kills, and the way he just comes forward with it, giving "Mass Claim Day" as the sole explanation and giving away the usefulness of the role, but maybe that's just me being paranoid all over. Also, to have a Commuter that has no modifiers limiting the amount of times he can use his ability would be so ridiculously overpowered that I find it rather unlikely.
And then comes GmK and presents his counterarguments. Rather than making a heated defense for himself, he presents a theory that is plausible, would explain a lot of things, clears himself and gives us a mafia. I want to believe you, Kake, I really do. Your posts make sense, they give a very clear town vibe off for me, and if it was just the posts, I'd have no trouble trusting you. But I simply can't overlook the investigation. I simply can't overlook the fact that 3 town cops, one of them a rolecop, would simply be such an overkill, especially since the town has even more investigative roles. I simply can't bring myself to trust you enough to agree with you. I made that mistake in Supernatural Hotel, and it cost the town the game (even though I wasn't part of the town then, but I was still playing on their side since I had essentially already lost).
I'm in a real dilemma here. On one hand, you seem so town-like and you act like you're town-like. Your behaviour is slightly different from Supernatural Hotel, where you were mafia, and your behaviour seems to suggest that you are indeed town, but then there's the chance that Ooglie was insane or the chance that Priz isn't insane enough to put three (!) cops and a journalist in one game, all working for the town.
I'm going to unvote for now, but I have no other choice than to keep on watching you.
(And to reply to your question about Ooglie's investigation getting through to me when he died the same night, I guess it is possible after all. Ooglie died at the end of the night, he still managed to investigate and get the result from the previous one, and I still managed to investigate him during the night, so I guess that's how it works.)
And then finally, Hype comes along and throws in the final claim, saying he's a Firefighter. Ok, I guess I can actually believe it. There is an Arsonist, so why not? It would also explain why I didn't get a result from him on Night 3, so I guess everything's in order there. I'm not saying you're 100% confirmed as a townie in my eyes, but the claim is believable enough for me to put you off my FoS list for the time being.
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Now's the time I put forward my theories. I have two. One is about Samlen and the second about the roleclaims. They overlap at times, especially when talking about Samlen, so yeah.
The Samlen Theory: Yeah, I think I actually explained it pretty good already earlier on when I analyzed Samlen's post and Jk's report of him. I don't think another long explanation is needed here, but just to be on the safe side, I'll go over the main points again:
The Roleclaims Theory: We now have a full list of roleclaims. For your convinience:
GmK: Town Rolecop
Ender: Town Journalist
Storm: 3rd Party Alien
Ansoro: Town Commuter
Timdood: 3rd Party Survivor
Jkang: Town Innkeeper
Samlen: Town Vanilla
Hype: Town Firefighter
Coolio: Town Vanilla
Digi: Town Ghoul
77: Town Party Host
(And for clarity, the deceased and their roles as well)
Notty: Town Roleblocker
Fiesta: Town Vanilla
Jivvi: Town Cop
Duffie: 3rd Party Arsonist
OMO: Town Mortician
Swate: ???
Ooglie: Town Cop (Lazy)
Std: Town Mistletoe Doctor
Jeercrul: 3rd Party Amnesiac
According to the claims and confirmed roles, there are 4 or 5 3rd Party in this game. If we'd assume that there are 4-5 mafia in the game, as we have been doing so far, that would only leave 10-12 town players, 6-7 of whom have already been killed. Honestly, the ratio seems a little too high, I believe there is one 3rd Party claim that is not who he says he is. And since Timdood's story seems plausible, I have no one else to look at than Storm. He has been incredibly quiet the whole game, he practically says nothing at all, he's so quiet that players actually forget that he's in the game at all. I don't quite remember the suspicions people had against Storm earlier, but there was something, so idk.
Also, 3 Town Vanillas in a game like this? I don't think so. Coolio seems... believable, to an extent, although I'm definitely watching out for her as well, but Samlen... well, I think I've explained my case on him pretty thoroughly already. Add that to the list of reasons why I deem him suspicious.
That would still leave a couple of mafia to find, though. We can assume that one of those is either GmK or Digi. But what about the other 1 or 2 (assuming there even is more)? I'm going to have to say that either Anso or 77 would be my choice, or both of them. Anso because of being less vocal than usual (although, yes, I get that World Cup and everything) and the "interesting" claim and 77 because of GmK's theory of reverse alignments and the fact that he's simply been that quiet.
So, my FoS list at this point:
Very likely to be mafia in my opinion: Samlen, Storm.
Not quite sure, could be one or the other: Digi, GmK, Anso, 77
More likely to be what they say they are in my opinion: Coolio, Timdood, Hype, Jkang.
So there you have it, my thoughts and theories. I didn't even get them all polished enough to post yet, and I'm not sure if I ever will, but that's the most important stuff. Definitely going to nominate this post for the "Largest Post By Character Count In PvC Mafia" Award, though not sure if Jkang is going to beat me or if he already has a post that is longer, but meh.
And to finish this off:
unvote
vote Samlen
Samlen's post was essentially "Ok, Ender is town, GmK is mafia, we're all town in my inn, won't make a lynch yet but I think I might vote Kake today, and I'll think about who the other mafia might be". He did nothing but second all the popular opinion from this day and the previous and say that they're all inno in his inn. He stated that he's practically convinced by my post that GmK is guilty and should hang, yet didn't vote. Even after his other post today, which (apparently) expressed his even further strenghtened belief that GmK is guilty, he didn't vote. Why?
I believe the reason is that there are simply too few people voting for GmK for Samlen to consider it a "safe" vote. The train is simply too small for him to feel safe casting his vote in a way that wouldn't draw suspicion on himself, or maybe he doesn't want to be the third vote and put suspicion on himself in that way. And honestly, I've begun to think that this is what the majority of his posts are. Very little new logic that would help us, always bringing up either the popular (or at least stated before by someone else that seems like a town member) opinion or the obvious choice for a townie to say, such as "I think the lurkers should speak up" or some math that proves the theory that is popular at the moment. He has been playing this game very safe and carefully so far. A little too safe, if you ask me. I can't quite explain it more than that, but I'm starting to feel like there's something very off about Samlen. A little too calculated, a little too eager to seem town-like and a little too interested in his own well-being rather than the success of the town, especially for someone that claims vanilla townie.
Moving on to Jkangaroo's latest novel.
Besides the fact that Jkang is indeed the Innkeeper (I'll leave the alignment to someone else to theoretize about), there are two things that I feel are of importance in his post. The claims. Samlen and GmK.
Apparently, GmK claimed rolecop inside the inn. I anticipated that. I had picked up on his hints that he left, especially the fact that he knew about Duffie being the Arsonist (even though he didn't outright say it in the thread, he hinted it very, very strongly), and I made the only reasonable conclusion: GmK is indeed a rolecop. Now, the problem is, what is his alignment?
Rolecops are very often scum. That's a fact. There are practically no games that have 3 cops (alignment or rolecops, doesn't matter), that are all town and all operate the way that the way that you'd expect a regular cop to work. That's a fact too. We already know that we have 2 confirmed town cops in this game, both of whom were alignment cops (or at least that's what every piece of evidence we can get our hands on suggests), one of those was lazy. Whether or not he was insane, we don't know. We don't even know if there was an insane cop in the game to begin with. Maybe it was just our minds making it up in hopes of Swate being a justified lynch in that manner.
In any case, the question of GmK's alignment stays open, and I find myself in a point where I feel like it could be either one, 50% chance of it being one and 50% other, because my opinion on whether or not Ooglie was insane or not has been rocked so badly by the posts made on this day that I feel like it's best for me and the town if I leave that there for the time being, because I'm all out of ideas to bring some clarity to the issue.
That also means that I feel the exact same way about Digi, because Digi and GmK are obviously of different alignments, unless Ooglie was a Random Cop, but I hope that even Priz wouldn't be that evil.
However, the thing that really sets me off in Jk's post, and Coolio's post as well a little while after, is the fact that Samlen asked for Coolio's role name before claiming to be Tumbleweed Travis (...I think that was it...?), which is yet another vanilla townie. Why did he ask for Coolio's role name?
I feel like there's only one reasonable explanation: Samlen isn't Tumbleweed Travis and is lying about his role. He was only trying to make his own claim more believable by making sure that his (made-up) role name would fit whatever names Fiesta and Coolio had. Vanilla Townie is one of the easiest roles to pretend to be, especially if he's Vanilla Mafia, which is a possibility in my opinion, considering the fact that he didn't use any abilities last night. There would be no reason for Samlen to lie about his role and be town at the same time, unless he's a Doctor or a Vig, which I very highly doubt at this point. The only reasonable conclusion is that he is either third-party or mafia, and considering the amount of third-parties we've already seen in this game, I'd regard that option to be highly unlikely as well, meaning that Samlen is a mafia.
Tim says he's a Survivor, a 3rd party. Okay, I find the claim believable. He has, as far as I've noticed him, played like I would expect a Survivor to play. That does mean that we have to be careful about him, since he will most likely take the chance to win with the mafia if given the chance.
77 seems to be as quiet as ever, following my lead without providing any explanation whatsoever. I guess it's somewhat understandable if we would believe his claim of being the party host, since he doesn't have any other abilities, but seriously though, I'd expect you to at least give some explanation, not just "meh, let's vote him". I can't help but wonder if you're playing like this specifically to keep anyone from being able to form any kind of an opinion on you. (It would seem you just unvoted though as I was writing the next bit about Anso, so yeah, but I feel like my point still stands.)
Ansoro seems to be a Commuter. Or so he says. I honestly find it a little questionable, to have 2 town players that are essentially immune to night kills, and the way he just comes forward with it, giving "Mass Claim Day" as the sole explanation and giving away the usefulness of the role, but maybe that's just me being paranoid all over. Also, to have a Commuter that has no modifiers limiting the amount of times he can use his ability would be so ridiculously overpowered that I find it rather unlikely.
And then comes GmK and presents his counterarguments. Rather than making a heated defense for himself, he presents a theory that is plausible, would explain a lot of things, clears himself and gives us a mafia. I want to believe you, Kake, I really do. Your posts make sense, they give a very clear town vibe off for me, and if it was just the posts, I'd have no trouble trusting you. But I simply can't overlook the investigation. I simply can't overlook the fact that 3 town cops, one of them a rolecop, would simply be such an overkill, especially since the town has even more investigative roles. I simply can't bring myself to trust you enough to agree with you. I made that mistake in Supernatural Hotel, and it cost the town the game (even though I wasn't part of the town then, but I was still playing on their side since I had essentially already lost).
I'm in a real dilemma here. On one hand, you seem so town-like and you act like you're town-like. Your behaviour is slightly different from Supernatural Hotel, where you were mafia, and your behaviour seems to suggest that you are indeed town, but then there's the chance that Ooglie was insane or the chance that Priz isn't insane enough to put three (!) cops and a journalist in one game, all working for the town.
I'm going to unvote for now, but I have no other choice than to keep on watching you.
(And to reply to your question about Ooglie's investigation getting through to me when he died the same night, I guess it is possible after all. Ooglie died at the end of the night, he still managed to investigate and get the result from the previous one, and I still managed to investigate him during the night, so I guess that's how it works.)
And then finally, Hype comes along and throws in the final claim, saying he's a Firefighter. Ok, I guess I can actually believe it. There is an Arsonist, so why not? It would also explain why I didn't get a result from him on Night 3, so I guess everything's in order there. I'm not saying you're 100% confirmed as a townie in my eyes, but the claim is believable enough for me to put you off my FoS list for the time being.
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Now's the time I put forward my theories. I have two. One is about Samlen and the second about the roleclaims. They overlap at times, especially when talking about Samlen, so yeah.
The Samlen Theory: Yeah, I think I actually explained it pretty good already earlier on when I analyzed Samlen's post and Jk's report of him. I don't think another long explanation is needed here, but just to be on the safe side, I'll go over the main points again:
- Samlen plays a little too safe in my opinion. His posts contain very little original thought, usually they're just saying over what already has been said or something that would be so obviously town that no one would think him suspicious over them, such as "We should get people to talk" or "Well, I guess I'll think about who I think is scum" etc.
- He claims Vanilla Townie. Normally, I'd have little problem with it, but the way how he does it sets a very big alarm off in my mind. He asks Coolio about her role name, I'm gonna assume it's to make sure he doesn't mess up the name. If he actually was who he says he was, there'd be no reason to do that, so he's probably lying. The only people who would gain anything from lying about being a Vanilla Townie are Doc, maybe Vig and most definitely Mafia. I find it highly unlikely to have another Doc, there has been no evidence to support the theory that there'd be a Vig in the game, therefore, I assume he must be a mafia.
- Conclusion: Samlen is likely to be mafia.
The Roleclaims Theory: We now have a full list of roleclaims. For your convinience:
GmK: Town Rolecop
Ender: Town Journalist
Storm: 3rd Party Alien
Ansoro: Town Commuter
Timdood: 3rd Party Survivor
Jkang: Town Innkeeper
Samlen: Town Vanilla
Hype: Town Firefighter
Coolio: Town Vanilla
Digi: Town Ghoul
77: Town Party Host
(And for clarity, the deceased and their roles as well)
Notty: Town Roleblocker
Fiesta: Town Vanilla
Jivvi: Town Cop
Duffie: 3rd Party Arsonist
OMO: Town Mortician
Swate: ???
Ooglie: Town Cop (Lazy)
Std: Town Mistletoe Doctor
Jeercrul: 3rd Party Amnesiac
According to the claims and confirmed roles, there are 4 or 5 3rd Party in this game. If we'd assume that there are 4-5 mafia in the game, as we have been doing so far, that would only leave 10-12 town players, 6-7 of whom have already been killed. Honestly, the ratio seems a little too high, I believe there is one 3rd Party claim that is not who he says he is. And since Timdood's story seems plausible, I have no one else to look at than Storm. He has been incredibly quiet the whole game, he practically says nothing at all, he's so quiet that players actually forget that he's in the game at all. I don't quite remember the suspicions people had against Storm earlier, but there was something, so idk.
Also, 3 Town Vanillas in a game like this? I don't think so. Coolio seems... believable, to an extent, although I'm definitely watching out for her as well, but Samlen... well, I think I've explained my case on him pretty thoroughly already. Add that to the list of reasons why I deem him suspicious.
That would still leave a couple of mafia to find, though. We can assume that one of those is either GmK or Digi. But what about the other 1 or 2 (assuming there even is more)? I'm going to have to say that either Anso or 77 would be my choice, or both of them. Anso because of being less vocal than usual (although, yes, I get that World Cup and everything) and the "interesting" claim and 77 because of GmK's theory of reverse alignments and the fact that he's simply been that quiet.
So, my FoS list at this point:
Very likely to be mafia in my opinion: Samlen, Storm.
Not quite sure, could be one or the other: Digi, GmK, Anso, 77
More likely to be what they say they are in my opinion: Coolio, Timdood, Hype, Jkang.
So there you have it, my thoughts and theories. I didn't even get them all polished enough to post yet, and I'm not sure if I ever will, but that's the most important stuff. Definitely going to nominate this post for the "Largest Post By Character Count In PvC Mafia" Award, though not sure if Jkang is going to beat me or if he already has a post that is longer, but meh.
And to finish this off:
unvote
vote Samlen
GmK
International Man Of Cake
If your reaction is due to my vote (it seems slightly extreme), then let me just repeat that the vote is the only logical solution for me to do after receiving the info from endersteve that Ooglie found me innocent.
I personally am more bound distrust samlen, but have no such strong basis as I do compared to the puzzle piece I got from ender. But yes, I am very interested to hear all the things
wrong with my claim, maybe we can clear the confusion up.
And, not sure if you're confused, but of course an alignment cop can be insane or lazy. Alignment cop = role, lazy/insane = modifier.
So this is either minute or huge: GmK, the claimed rolecop, says he got a "Janitor" result from investigating OMO, but his role was actually undertaker, which sounds to me like the polar opposite if a janitor.
Janitor: Can hide someone's role from the public.
Undertaker: Roles stop showing up when he dies.
On top of that, I would imagine that you'd have gotten the same role that showed up on the death report. I just can't wrap my head around why you would get "Janitor" and not "Undertaker." Unless of course, GmK really isn't a cop at all, and didn't quite check everything over before claiming o-o
However, Everything else seems to check out...So I'll give him the benefit of the doubt...For now!
And Samlen asking for Coolio's role name before claiming struck me as incredibly wrong....I just didn't get to be the first to point it out because I was asleep and Ender wasn't
And I really don't think 77 could be mafia. Personally, I just think he's he's a really really really quiet townie.
Janitor: Can hide someone's role from the public.
Undertaker: Roles stop showing up when he dies.
On top of that, I would imagine that you'd have gotten the same role that showed up on the death report. I just can't wrap my head around why you would get "Janitor" and not "Undertaker." Unless of course, GmK really isn't a cop at all, and didn't quite check everything over before claiming o-o
However, Everything else seems to check out...So I'll give him the benefit of the doubt...For now!
And Samlen asking for Coolio's role name before claiming struck me as incredibly wrong....I just didn't get to be the first to point it out because I was asleep and Ender wasn't
And I really don't think 77 could be mafia. Personally, I just think he's he's a really really really quiet townie.
GmK
International Man Of Cake
Not sure where you check, but when looking at classical roles, an Undertaker does something else: https://epicmafia.com/role/5663
To me it seems like undertaker/mortician was picked within the framework of the game story (i would assume that e.g. digi wasn't called 'ghoul' in the role but we cannot check due to PM stuff), but that I am given the actual corresponding role (janitor: hiding roles/alignments on death) but not their modifier (permanent/lazy/one-shot)
That description is that of a mortician. At least as far as I am familiar with it.
The undertaker I'm talking about is the one in this game, and I can't understand why you would receive a different role than would show up on death.
GmK
International Man Of Cake
Did you even read the title of that page? Clearly says undertaker. And did you understand what I was saying? Roles are adapted to the game story (we all can confirm that), but since a rolecop would be completely useless then, I suppose I am given the real corresponding base role to have a fighting chance. Did you see me reflecting on the issue of being told Omo is a janitor but his claim reflecting something more advanced?
Sorry to be hostile, but this annoys me right now.
GmK
International Man Of Cake
And sorry again for the defensivness, I did not want to discredit the observation itself (which is very clever), but I was taken back by the fact that I seemed to be misunderstood.
Ansoro2112
Hottie
Endersteve, just to be clear, it's NOT my decision whether to use my ability or not. It happens automatically every night. That's why I have NO night actions.
And the only "flaw" my role has is that there are nights where my ability might not work and I might get killed. So no, my role is not overpowered. If you think about it I do practically nothing. Except going away.
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And gosh, just keep in mind I work every day till very LATE at night. That's why I can't be as active as I was in other seasons so please have that in mind. I reply when I have the time. Sorry if it's not enough.
Leaving to work now so I won't be able to reply till later later on when I have time.
And the only "flaw" my role has is that there are nights where my ability might not work and I might get killed. So no, my role is not overpowered. If you think about it I do practically nothing. Except going away.
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And gosh, just keep in mind I work every day till very LATE at night. That's why I can't be as active as I was in other seasons so please have that in mind. I reply when I have the time. Sorry if it's not enough.
Leaving to work now so I won't be able to reply till later later on when I have time.
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